The self deprecating attitude and culture in medicine is awful

BacktotheBasics

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We should go back to the old days where med students on the wards were actually functioning like interns and residents rather than spending 2 years memorizing low yield crap when B&B, Anki, UFAPS do a lot better work in shorter time and then spending 3rd year dealing with personality conflicts, glorified shadowing and other minimal things because liability

Medical school as it is now is a terrible system. The only thing proprietary to a medical school is the clinical educators and the patients. Why not cater to that?

At Syncrohnize's Medical School:
M1/M2:
7am-8am: Clinical lecture (breakfast provided)
8am-9am: Walk to the hospital and watch selected parts of rounds.
9am-10am: Small group where clinical correlates are highlighted and clinical skills are coached by faculty to students either in the hospital with actual patients OR with SPs.
10am-12 pm: Basic Science Lectures Part 1
12pm-1pm: Lunch
1-3pm: Basic Science Lectures Part 2
3-10 pm: Study, Travel, Wellness time for students
Break for hardcore study for Step 1 starting February of M2.

M3: Perform at the PGY-1 level in Medicine, Surgery, EM, Pediatrics, OB/GYN, etc.
M4: Ask students to semi-commit to what they want to do and split them into cohorts. Have them perform as a intern in their specialty (ex. neuro intern-PGY-2, etc). Get their subI done early before applications.
 
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shouldigomd

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I've never encountered any of my fellow students "making fun" of a nurse. Does this really happen?

I think its one thing to be humble, and be comfortable admitting you don't know. Everyone should be like that.

I don't think its healthy for administration, attendings, etc. to beat down students to the point you feel like a burden in a healthcare setting, or dissuade you from making meaningful contributions within your developing skillset. If staff feels that way they should not have students.

It certainly is not healthy but it exists and I do not see it changing any time soon.

Many (probably most) "academic" based attendings are not there for the love of teaching and thus having you is not a "privilege." Academics is often about resume building, reputation, prestige, flexible work (less RVU based) schedule etc. There is less $$ generally speaking in academia but there is a power than attracts people. Staff is also not dedicated to you. Nurses obviously choose to work at a certain hospital but they are not obligated to you or your "skillsets." They are there to work their shift not to deal with students. Imagine being a nurse that has only been working for 1 year on the ICU. They honestly have way more experience there than even the 2nd year IM residents who are there for their 2nd or 3rd 4 week MICU rotation. Those MICU nurses work there every shift.... They are not stretched so thin like med students / residents are. Now imagine a nurse who has been working for several years having a 1st year resident or med student with a chip on their shoulder because they think they are more trained...

I think many (at least me) can relate to the following:

A common sentiment amongst med students is to want to be appreciated and feel needed. You are not getting paid and you feel like you are in the way without contributing significantly. Then you become an intern and once the new wears off you start to feel like you want to do more than just be an order / note monkey. Then you become a resident and once you have confidence / knowledge you just want to be free to manage your own patients. Then you become an attending and are exposed to all the politics that academia / community medicine has to offer.

Sometimes it feels depressing but focus on the good... focus on the learning. I got blamed today for something that was not my fault and I was annoyed all morning. I was in a bad mood for 2 cases until I realized to myself. Nobody else really cares and I am currently catheterizing peoples fricking coronaries! How cool is that!

Enjoy the ride boys and girls. Its bumpy
 
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Splenda88

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Well, no one knows who are the doctors (aka physicians) in the hospital anymore. Everyone is walking around with a long white coat...
 
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Splenda88

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I really feel like part of the problem is that doctors don’t actually advocate for their profession. While the other medical personnel do. Not only advocate but also claim equivalency and even better care. While we sit here and argue about how we deserve less and don’t know much. That’s the problem and that’s why we still make less than 60,000 as residents working in a pandemic.
Welcome to medicine... where the people who are asking for more $$$ are more altruistic than the money hungry docs.
 
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MedicineZ0Z

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It certainly is not healthy but it exists and I do not see it changing any time soon.

Many (probably most) "academic" based attendings are not there for the love of teaching and thus having you is not a "privilege." Academics is often about resume building, reputation, prestige, flexible work (less RVU based) schedule etc. There is less $$ generally speaking in academia but there is a power than attracts people. Staff is also not dedicated to you. Nurses obviously choose to work at a certain hospital but they are not obligated to you or your "skillsets." They are there to work their shift not to deal with students. Imagine being a nurse that has only been working for 1 year on the ICU. They honestly have way more experience there than even the 2nd year IM residents who are there for their 2nd or 3rd 4 week MICU rotation. Those MICU nurses work there every shift.... They are not stretched so thin like med students / residents are. Now imagine a nurse who has been working for several years having a 1st year resident or med student with a chip on their shoulder because they think they are more trained...

I think many (at least me) can relate to the following:

A common sentiment amongst med students is to want to be appreciated and feel needed. You are not getting paid and you feel like you are in the way without contributing significantly. Then you become an intern and once the new wears off you start to feel like you want to do more than just be an order / note monkey. Then you become a resident and once you have confidence / knowledge you just want to be free to manage your own patients. Then you become an attending and are exposed to all the politics that academia / community medicine has to offer.

Sometimes it feels depressing but focus on the good... focus on the learning. I got blamed today for something that was not my fault and I was annoyed all morning. I was in a bad mood for 2 cases until I realized to myself. Nobody else really cares and I am currently catheterizing peoples fricking coronaries! How cool is that!

Enjoy the ride boys and girls. Its bumpy
Lol I've seen icu nurses with 30 years of experience ask for or want to do stupid things. I've seen many veteran nurses be completely off as well.
ICU nursing experience does count and many are excellent. But education and training also means something, as does intelligence. Residents, on average, are drastically more intelligent than other people in the hospital. Even more so than attendings given the greater difficulty of getting into med school now. And certainly far more intelligent than non-physicians. To say that is irrelevant is silly and pandering to political correctness and the "we're all equal" utter nonsense.

And education/training counts dude. The former especially counts. Knowledge is a real thing - and knowing a one algorithmic approach via experience doesn't put you ahead.

Welcome to medicine... where the people who are asking for more $$$ are more altruistic than the money hungry docs.

Doesn't help when even some residents and fellows are anti-doctor.
 

Ho0v-man

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Incoming controversial opinion: I’m glad this year that med students are not essential. If we were, hospital staff would be lessened because of the weight we would normally pull. That would have made the pandemic even harder on these places. Hospitals would have it worse when we were all of a sudden pulled from rotations. I can even imagine hospital systems lobbying to keep their free labor just so we could see patients during the pandemic with no PPE. Our little utility to the team probably saved some of our lives this year.
 
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Lawpy

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Incoming controversial opinion: I’m glad this year that med students are not essential. If we were, hospital staff would be lessened because of the weight we would normally pull. That would have made the pandemic even harder on these places. Hospitals would have it worse when we were all of a sudden pulled from rotations. I can even imagine hospital systems lobbying to keep their free labor just so we could see patients during the pandemic with no PPE. Our little utility to the team probably saved some of our lives this year.

I can agree with this
 

NicMouse64

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Incoming controversial opinion: I’m glad this year that med students are not essential. If we were, hospital staff would be lessened because of the weight we would normally pull. That would have made the pandemic even harder on these places. Hospitals would have it worse when we were all of a sudden pulled from rotations. I can even imagine hospital systems lobbying to keep their free labor just so we could see patients during the pandemic with no PPE. Our little utility to the team probably saved some of our lives this year.
Most of us are still in the hospital, using up PPE. We just don't see covid patients.......
 
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BacktotheBasics

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It certainly is not healthy but it exists and I do not see it changing any time soon.

Many (probably most) "academic" based attendings are not there for the love of teaching and thus having you is not a "privilege." Academics is often about resume building, reputation, prestige, flexible work (less RVU based) schedule etc. There is less $$ generally speaking in academia but there is a power than attracts people. Staff is also not dedicated to you. Nurses obviously choose to work at a certain hospital but they are not obligated to you or your "skillsets." They are there to work their shift not to deal with students. Imagine being a nurse that has only been working for 1 year on the ICU. They honestly have way more experience there than even the 2nd year IM residents who are there for their 2nd or 3rd 4 week MICU rotation. Those MICU nurses work there every shift.... They are not stretched so thin like med students / residents are. Now imagine a nurse who has been working for several years having a 1st year resident or med student with a chip on their shoulder because they think they are more trained...

I think many (at least me) can relate to the following:

A common sentiment amongst med students is to want to be appreciated and feel needed. You are not getting paid and you feel like you are in the way without contributing significantly. Then you become an intern and once the new wears off you start to feel like you want to do more than just be an order / note monkey. Then you become a resident and once you have confidence / knowledge you just want to be free to manage your own patients. Then you become an attending and are exposed to all the politics that academia / community medicine has to offer.

Sometimes it feels depressing but focus on the good... focus on the learning. I got blamed today for something that was not my fault and I was annoyed all morning. I was in a bad mood for 2 cases until I realized to myself. Nobody else really cares and I am currently catheterizing peoples fricking coronaries! How cool is that!

Enjoy the ride boys and girls. Its bumpy

This really puts things into perspective!
 

Candidate2017

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Unless the bolded is hyperbole, some of you work with malignant af attendings. The attending might seriously question my plan (as opposed to just offer another option) at most once every 6 mos with me, with the rest of the time attendings basically signing off and saying, sounds like a reasonable plan. Granted I do see this way more off-service, but I expect that given that they don't know me from Adam. This usually goes away within a week when they realize I'm competent. Maybe I'm just lucky here. This means even more that people need to pay attention to fit and culture of a place for residency interviews.
Like I said, 95% of the time I'm treated as an adult with a full medical license. But there are those few ego-driven attendings in academia who treat everyone within their sphere of influence as a child (whether it's a patient, student, resident, or fellow). Hence, our self-deprecation mentioned by OP, which we do out of necessity to survive this lengthy, all-or-nothing apprenticeship system.

We play the game for nearly a decade or more, from Day 1 when we are lectured on professionalism by people who aren't even in clinical medicine. As the years go by, I can no longer convince myself (lie) and rationalize bad behavior with, "Oh well, I'm just a student/intern/junior resident/this person is just having a bad day." Nah, it's the system, and anyone who treats students/trainees with less respect reserved for the average stranger they pass on the street is doing because they can.
 
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Splenda88

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Like I said, 95% of the time I'm treated as an adult with a full medical license. But there are those few ego-driven attendings in academia who treat everyone within their sphere of influence as a child (whether it's a patient, student, resident, or fellow). Hence, our self-deprecation mentioned by OP, which we do out of necessity to survive this lengthy, all-or-nothing apprenticeship system.

We play the game for nearly a decade or more, from Day 1 when we are lectured on professionalism by people who aren't even in clinical medicine. As the years go by, I can no longer convince myself (lie) and rationalize bad behavior with, "Oh well, I'm just a student/intern/junior resident/this person is just having a bad day." Nah, it's the system, and anyone who treats students/trainees with less respect reserved for the average stranger they pass on the street is doing because they can.
It's a s***ty system that needs a major overhaul.
 
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