THE SOAP 2013 Thread

[xrevision]

In all honesty applying to very few places during the main match was probably what sealed your fate. Apply to as many programs and go on as many interviews as you can afford next year.

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[K31]

i disagree, i think most of the people here on this thread are AMGs that are truly surprised that they did not match...because even only a few years ago, it was unthinkable that a US grad would not match.

Frankly, that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. US senior match rates over the past 5 years have been in the mid-90%'s, and have even increased slightly (NRMP 2012 Match Results and Data, Table 4). In fact, 2012 had the highest match rate for US seniors in the last 30 years.

 

[joesephine]

how does friday @5pm work? do we have to manually send all our information in or is it all done through ERAS again?

 

[cerebral edema]

it seems that a fair amount of people in this thread are IMG's, likely american or canadian born students who want to return to the US for residency. there's nothing wrong with that. what i think is wrong is the culture and mentality that somehow you not securing a spot via SOAP/match is unfair because you made the decision to attend a non-US school for medicine.

you made the educated decision to attend a foreign medical school, likely because you couldn't make it in a US school. you should've known going in how much harder it was going to be to get into residency, something that im pretty sure all premed counselors tell their students when the topic of foreign schools get raised.

with the upcoming merger of the AOA and ACGME matches in 2015, its going to be even tougher for IMG's to match. all those currently open DO spots are going to fair game for unmatched students and there's no way a PD is going to give an IMG a spot over a US MD student.

tl;dr if you didn't get into a US school, don't go in expecting a US residency spot like its some sort of deserved handout

you sound butt hurt

 

[game24]

it seems that a fair amount of people in this thread are IMG's, likely american or canadian born students who want to return to the US for residency. there's nothing wrong with that. what i think is wrong is the culture and mentality that somehow you not securing a spot via SOAP/match is unfair because you made the decision to attend a non-US school for medicine.

you made the educated decision to attend a foreign medical school, likely because you couldn't make it in a US allopathic school. you should've known going in how much harder it was going to be to get into residency, something that im pretty sure all premed counselors tell their students when the topic of foreign schools get raised.

with the upcoming merger of the AOA and ACGME matches in 2015, its going to be even tougher for IMG's to match. all those currently open DO spots are going to fair game for unmatched students and there's no way a PD is going to give an IMG a spot over a US MD student.

tl;dr if you didn't get into a US school, don't go in expecting a US residency spot like its some sort of deserved handout

fixed.

 

[ensuii]

fixed.

Not sure what you're getting at but honestly if anyone went the offshore route instead of going to a DO school when that was a legitimate option, it was a huge mistake.

 

[IamnotFreud]

Not sure what you're getting at but honestly if anyone went the offshore route instead of going to a DO school when that was a legitimate option, it was a huge mistake.

While technically all of what you guys are saying is true, continuing to harp on this really does no one any good. I'm sure that people realize more and more that it's a big risk/gamble to go to offshore schools but they can't go back in time and change that. Let's be a tad more sensitive, shall we?

 

[septoplasty]

I fail to see why the US MD applicants (unmatched/match) are targeting solely American Caribbean students when there are far more NON-AMERICAN IMG's who need VISAs applying and possibly taking spots "away".

Also, in the slightest of defense, we the lucky American Caribbean ones who did get a spot, aren't being "handed" anything. We work our ass off, oh .. did we mention our tax dollars are also funding the positions that are benefiting us?

Blame the government I'd say. The current administration wanted to ensure that jobs stay in the country and that we don't go out looking for people to work for us. Heck if they readily hand out H1s and J1s etc. I don't see how they're going to accomplish the herculean task.

 

[naus]

Only the lower tier schools. SGU, Ross, and AUC are businesses that need to weed people out to maintain high step one pass rates plus they don't have enough clinical rotation spots to accommodate all the people they accept in the first place. I heard US schools provide remediation tests though.

Why is some pre pharmacy schmuck posting on the medical residency forum?

 

[1Life]

In all honesty applying to very few places during the main match was probably what sealed your fate. Apply to as many programs and go on as many interviews as you can afford next year.

I kinda suspected that it was that but I was in denial about it.

I'm wondering too if my permanent resident status hindered me as well (but I'm an AMG). Anyways, good luck to anyone who has not matched.

PS. At what time can we initiate contact tomorrow?

 

[IMvrach]

Joesephine, you didn't stand a chance this year but you have pretty nice chances for the next.

1. Many programs filter and do not invite IMGs without ECFMG certificate as they are concerned one would not be ECFMG certified by July 1.
2. Some programs would invite but not rank not yet certified for the same reason.
3. As you are graduating in May, they knee you are likely to be not certfied by July as the process is rather time consuming.
4. You were not ECFMG "verified" by December. Most programs would not touch an applicant not eligible for the match.
5. Next year the programs would not care (or even know) whether or not you participated in this match. I think you should not worry about it.

Good luck.

Question: i tried to apply to this yrs match with an incomplete application (step 2ck and CS scores didnt come out until december, >24x on both) and am a non-us IMG, expected to graduate in may. It was not the smartest decision and now im hitting myself because even if i now re-apply this year with a 'complete' app and possible a step 3 I am afraid I won't get interviews from places I applied because its my second time around. Thoughts?

 

[joesephine]

Joesephine, you didn't stand a chance this year but you have pretty nice chances for the next.

1. Many programs filter and do not invite IMGs without ECFMG certificate as they are concerned one would not be ECFMG certified by July 1.
2. Some programs would invite but not rank not yet certified for the same reason.
3. As you are graduating in May, they knee you are likely to be not certfied by July as the process is rather time consuming.
4. You were not ECFMG "verified" by December. Most programs would not touch an applicant not eligible for the match.
5. Next year the programs would not care (or even know) whether or not you participated in this match. I think you should not worry about it.

Good luck.

THANK YOU for this post. You have answered more questions then my school has or anyone else and re-assured what I thought. I am now deciding if I want to write step 3 this summer and re-apply and perhaps broaden my applications to different specialities. I just wasted a ton of money this year applying to >120 programs. Foolish.

 

[halekulani]

I forgot to release the CK and CS scores for SOAP. would that hurt me?

I had two interviews (I applied very selectively and to few places) during the main match. I have received no offers during SOAP. despite applying to surg prelim and IM prelim (50 places)

I have decent stats AMG/220/203/CS passed all 1x. BUT i failed 3 classes in first year and repeated the year with those classes only. I've done well on my clerkships and excellent on a surgery sub-i and received excellent letters from a well known Dept Chair in Surgery, SurgOnc Chief, and Gen Surg/Trauma Chief from a solid university program.

I don't know what to do... What if there are no more unfilled spots come monday. My hands were tied because I could not initiate contact. At this point I will take anything....

If not releasing CK and CS hurt me.........

did any of your advisors tell you your downward trend from step 1 to step 2 is a huge red flag?

if not, they did an incredible disservice to you.

when applying to such few places and with such few interviews, did anyone tell you to have a serious backup plan if you don't match?

 

[bender12]

I matched!!!!!

I am a US-IMG who went to AUA.
I applied to a 120 programs, got only 3 interviews but still matched!!!. i am so happy!!!!.

( i realize that this might be the wrong thread to post this in but i couldn't find the right one)

i wish everybody the best in the soap process!!

DONT ever give up!!!!!

 

[1Life]

did any of your advisors tell you your downward trend from step 1 to step 2 is a huge red flag?

if not, they did an incredible disservice to you.

when applying to such few places and with such few interviews, did anyone tell you to have a serious backup plan if you don't match?

All the programs only saw my Step I score.

Going back, my advisor told me to apply broad, consider another specialty or a prelim position in surgery at my home institution if geography was a factor. My choices were influenced by geography (I wanted to stay in my home state and had a few other states as back up). He referred me to the assistant PD where I was told that I was a "very strong candidate" for their prelim position and that I should give them a "very strong consideration". So I considered it a safety net and found out that they did not rank me high enough to match.

I should have applied broad from the beginning...

 

[gutonc]

All the programs only saw my Step I score.

Going back, my advisor told me to apply broad, consider another specialty or a prelim position in surgery at my home institution if geography was a factor. My choices were influenced by geography (I wanted to stay in my home state and had a few other states as back up). He referred me to the assistant PD where I was told that I was a "very strong candidate" for their prelim position and that I should give them a "very strong consideration". So I considered it a safety net and found out that they did not rank me high enough to match.

I should have applied broad from the beginning...

Yup. I wish you no ill will but yours is a perfect cautionary tale that will be ignored by others in the future...but I can pretend people will read this in the future.

Your stats aren't really that decent. Your Step scores are at or below the median. You failed classes and you applied to a small number of programs in a fairly competitively specialty. And honestly, the worst thing you did was ignoring the advice of a wise advisor by not applying - or interviewing - broadly.

Hopefully you'll recover next year but you need to adjust your expectations.

 

[emboli]

I matched!!!!!

I am a US-IMG who went to AUA.
I applied to a 120 programs, got only 3 interviews but still matched!!!. i am so happy!!!!.

( i realize that this might be the wrong thread to post this in but i couldn't find the right one)

i wish everybody the best in the soap process!!

DONT ever give up!!!!!

Wow.. its like rubbing salt into the wounds of others. Wrong thread buddy.

 

[Bugabooed]

This thread is starting to get mean with the rising tensions. This is a horrible process for all involved. I am an AMG who didn't match twice but am now a categorical surg resident. Most of you are are good students and doctors who will be be great residents and attendings. The more you talk to residents and attendings, the more you will see how often they take a circuitous route. Whatever caused your current predicament, here is my advice with a grain of salt:
1) Focus- if your dream is to bean ENT or a family doc, decide what you want and narrow your efforts to that goal for the next round. Just like you did in med school, do what you have to do.
2) Get a job: with all of our debts and need to do things like eat, this next year, you probably need a job
- don't give up on residency jobs- there are websites for most specialties (apds.org for surgery, eg) and more general sites like residentmatch that can help you out. Moreover, and not to be underestimated is "pounding the pavement." There are many spots that aren't advertised such as new programs or extra spots at established programs that get ACGME approval for expansion. Something slightly less than the shotgun approach is appropriate here. Focus on programs you know, have interviewed at, have friends and classmates at and email and call judiciously. There will be some spots that open up when a IMGs papers don't come through, people drop out for personal reasons, especially in June.
- foreign residency jobs- look at UK requirements, your home country or where you speak the language- Canada, Australia, NZ, Caribbean, etc
- get a non-residency job: obviously less desirable but you need to eat and progress in your career. Research is a great option. It may be poo pooed by some but I know tons of residents, especially FMGs that did a year or two or 3 of research and matched well. Health care related research work is also good and pays ok.
- medical/non-research jobs: consultancies, insurance, public health, non-lab research, docs assistant/first assist type jobs, Kaplan or similar teacher
- other jobs you are probably qualified for and will pay more than McDs: private (school or home tutor)- doesn't require a certificate, volunteer- peace corps, americorps, etc, business jobs as previously mentioned on this forum
3) options that may help your future application:
- grad school: yes, more school but many phd positions pay, mph can be useful but now we are looking at next year or January to start as most apps are due in the fall and offer in the spring like undergrad
4) other:
- rely on undergrad major
- job to pay the bills, have time for step 3, next round of apps

For your next attempt: what factors can you modify?
- apply early, submit the day of opening
- start now trying to line up letter writers
- strategize: apply to more, broader, different specialties, different regions
- step 3 +\-: some states require internship prior to taking
- additional qualifications: papers published, posters, current projects, other qualifications- CITI certified for research, new degree or diploma, current on EHR (Epic, etc)
- contact programs/interviewers and ask what you did wrong, can do better, etc. what do you have to loose now?

Be prepared for spur of the moment residency openings:
- keep all your ERAS stuff (print out, keep up to date CV)
- ask your home program to keep your letters of rec on file or you keep them so you can send the minute you see an opening
- troll the web or openings, keep in contact with friends/residents for openings, contact PDs

Not matching is a horrible place to be, especially today. I empathize and there are more and more attendings that didn't get where there in the traditional route. This is not a reflection of your intelligence or you as a person.it is a career setback or stall. Do what you need to do for you, your family and for what you ultimately want.

Best of luck.
PM with questions

 

[IMvrach]

Very good points . Just minor correction: one can register for step 3 in one state, where PGY1 is not required for it, seat it in the second, close to home, and apply to programs in the third.

This thread is starting to get mean with the rising tensions. This is a horrible process for all involved. I am an AMG who didn't match twice but am now a categorical surg resident. Most of you are are good students and doctors who will be be great residents and attendings. The more you talk to residents and attendings, the more you will see how often they take a circuitous route. Whatever caused your current predicament, here is my advice with a grain of salt:
1) Focus- if your dream is to bean ENT or a family doc, decide what you want and narrow your efforts to that goal for the next round. Just like you did in med school, do what you have to do.
2) Get a job: with all of our debts and need to do things like eat, this next year, you probably need a job
- don't give up on residency jobs- there are websites for most specialties (apds.org for surgery, eg) and more general sites like residentmatch that can help you out. Moreover, and not to be underestimated is "pounding the pavement." There are many spots that aren't advertised such as new programs or extra spots at established programs that get ACGME approval for expansion. Something slightly less than the shotgun approach is appropriate here. Focus on programs you know, have interviewed at, have friends and classmates at and email and call judiciously. There will be some spots that open up when a IMGs papers don't come through, people drop out for personal reasons, especially in June.
- foreign residency jobs- look at UK requirements, your home country or where you speak the language- Canada, Australia, NZ, Caribbean, etc
- get a non-residency job: obviously less desirable but you need to eat and progress in your career. Research is a great option. It may be poo pooed by some but I know tons of residents, especially FMGs that did a year or two or 3 of research and matched well. Health care related research work is also good and pays ok.
- medical/non-research jobs: consultancies, insurance, public health, non-lab research, docs assistant/first assist type jobs, Kaplan or similar teacher
- other jobs you are probably qualified for and will pay more than McDs: private (school or home tutor)- doesn't require a certificate, volunteer- peace corps, americorps, etc, business jobs as previously mentioned on this forum
3) options that may help your future application:
- grad school: yes, more school but many phd positions pay, mph can be useful but now we are looking at next year or January to start as most apps are due in the fall and offer in the spring like undergrad
4) other:
- rely on undergrad major
- job to pay the bills, have time for step 3, next round of apps

For your next attempt: what factors can you modify?
- apply early, submit the day of opening
- start now trying to line up letter writers
- strategize: apply to more, broader, different specialties, different regions
- step 3 +\-: some states require internship prior to taking
- additional qualifications: papers published, posters, current projects, other qualifications- CITI certified for research, new degree or diploma, current on EHR (Epic, etc)
- contact programs/interviewers and ask what you did wrong, can do better, etc. what do you have to loose now?

Be prepared for spur of the moment residency openings:
- keep all your ERAS stuff (print out, keep up to date CV)
- ask your home program to keep your letters of rec on file or you keep them so you can send the minute you see an opening
- troll the web or openings, keep in contact with friends/residents for openings, contact PDs

Not matching is a horrible place to be, especially today. I empathize and there are more and more attendings that didn't get where there in the traditional route. This is not a reflection of your intelligence or you as a person.it is a career setback or stall. Do what you need to do for you, your family and for what you ultimately want.

Best of luck.
PM with questions

 

[scott1981]

i didn't criticize them at all
i just said amg's should have priority regardless of merit and fully acknowledged how hard IMGs worked

i absolutely know that a ton of IMGs are US students who couldn't get into a med school in the states. however, the value of being in the states should be upheld by holding priority for people from the US and who are actively studying in the US, period.

so let me get this straight. you feel that an AMG with a very subpar application, possibly with basic science failures or lousy usmle scores should get matched over a caribbean student who worked very hard to get a competitive application regardless of merit?

why dont you go back in time. the roles were reversed. back in undergrad, the caribbean student may have had a subpar GPA or MCAT, but there were repercussions to that........ im doubtful that you shed a tear for them getting marooned to the caribbean. you, as a US grad, have a sense of entitlement here. two US citizens should not be held to different standards. unfortunately they already are at a disadvantage....... but you want everything....... only when the time is right for you.

it sounds like you want have your cake and to eat it too.

 

[NuckingFuts]

This thread is starting to get mean with the rising tensions. This is a horrible process for all involved. I am an AMG who didn't match twice but am now a categorical surg resident. Most of you are are good students and doctors who will be be great residents and attendings. The more you talk to residents and attendings, the more you will see how often they take a circuitous route. Whatever caused your current predicament, here is my advice with a grain of salt:
1) Focus- if your dream is to bean ENT or a family doc, decide what you want and narrow your efforts to that goal for the next round. Just like you did in med school, do what you have to do.
2) Get a job: with all of our debts and need to do things like eat, this next year, you probably need a job
- don't give up on residency jobs- there are websites for most specialties (apds.org for surgery, eg) and more general sites like residentmatch that can help you out. Moreover, and not to be underestimated is "pounding the pavement." There are many spots that aren't advertised such as new programs or extra spots at established programs that get ACGME approval for expansion. Something slightly less than the shotgun approach is appropriate here. Focus on programs you know, have interviewed at, have friends and classmates at and email and call judiciously. There will be some spots that open up when a IMGs papers don't come through, people drop out for personal reasons, especially in June.
- foreign residency jobs- look at UK requirements, your home country or where you speak the language- Canada, Australia, NZ, Caribbean, etc
- get a non-residency job: obviously less desirable but you need to eat and progress in your career. Research is a great option. It may be poo pooed by some but I know tons of residents, especially FMGs that did a year or two or 3 of research and matched well. Health care related research work is also good and pays ok.
- medical/non-research jobs: consultancies, insurance, public health, non-lab research, docs assistant/first assist type jobs, Kaplan or similar teacher
- other jobs you are probably qualified for and will pay more than McDs: private (school or home tutor)- doesn't require a certificate, volunteer- peace corps, americorps, etc, business jobs as previously mentioned on this forum
3) options that may help your future application:
- grad school: yes, more school but many phd positions pay, mph can be useful but now we are looking at next year or January to start as most apps are due in the fall and offer in the spring like undergrad
4) other:
- rely on undergrad major
- job to pay the bills, have time for step 3, next round of apps

For your next attempt: what factors can you modify?
- apply early, submit the day of opening
- start now trying to line up letter writers
- strategize: apply to more, broader, different specialties, different regions
- step 3 +\-: some states require internship prior to taking
- additional qualifications: papers published, posters, current projects, other qualifications- CITI certified for research, new degree or diploma, current on EHR (Epic, etc)
- contact programs/interviewers and ask what you did wrong, can do better, etc. what do you have to loose now?

Be prepared for spur of the moment residency openings:
- keep all your ERAS stuff (print out, keep up to date CV)
- ask your home program to keep your letters of rec on file or you keep them so you can send the minute you see an opening
- troll the web or openings, keep in contact with friends/residents for openings, contact PDs

Not matching is a horrible place to be, especially today. I empathize and there are more and more attendings that didn't get where there in the traditional route. This is not a reflection of your intelligence or you as a person.it is a career setback or stall. Do what you need to do for you, your family and for what you ultimately want.

Best of luck.
PM with questions

This, is an excellent post.

Well said.

 

[NJDevilsFan]

With all of the world class faculty, remediation, and amazing resources provided to AMGs, they should not be in this predicament. There are IMGs who go to school in trailers and can put together stronger applications. No AMG should score under a 230 on any step (personal situation and catastrophe notwithstanding). We're all US citizens after the same goal so don't put IMGs down.

 

[PipiChen]

Was told that Lehigh Valley may have prelim surgery post soap. Hope this could benefit some AMGs interested in pursuing this opportunity. Best wishes guys, it was a rough season...

 

[nysegop]

Forgive me, what does SOAP stand for?

 

[naus]

With all of the world class faculty, remediation, and amazing resources provided to AMGs, they should not be in this predicament. There are IMGs who go to school in trailers and can put together stronger applications. No AMG should score under a 230 on any step (personal situation and catastrophe notwithstanding). We're all US citizens after the same goal so don't put IMGs down.

This is utter bull****. Most US grads have about four to six weeks to study for Step 1 and two weeks to study for Step 2, a far cry from the six month to year long study regimens that many IMGs do. Your only existence as an IMG is to study for the damn test, while the rest of us went to a real school and learned things like coming up with a proper differential.

At my US school, we were still seeing patients during the day up to three weeks before Step 1.

 

[molten]

Forgive me, what does SOAP stand for?

Hmm...anyone want to be creative?

 

[chiz2kul]

With all of the world class faculty, remediation, and amazing resources provided to AMGs, they should not be in this predicament. There are IMGs who go to school in trailers and can put together stronger applications. No AMG should score under a 230 on any step (personal situation and catastrophe notwithstanding). We're all US citizens after the same goal so don't put IMGs down.

Madness.

this thread has gone mad.

 

[caliprincess]

Forgive me, what does SOAP stand for?

Hmm...anyone want to be creative?

Sh*tting On Awesome People

 

[Noegrus]

Sh*tting On Awesome People

 

[NJDevilsFan]

With all of the world class faculty, remediation, and amazing resources provided to AMGs, they should not be in this predicament. There are IMGs who go to school in trailers and can put together stronger applications. No AMG should score under a 230 on any step (personal situation and catastrophe notwithstanding). We're all US citizens after the same goal so don't put IMGs down.

I apologize, this may have been a bit of zeal on my part. However IMGs with large study gaps often pay for it during the match/interview season. This scrutiny is warranted however there are other IMGs that take very little time to study. My point being that everyone in the NRMP/ERAS applicant pool should be given their fair chance at securing a residency.

 

[microscp2]

This is utter bull****. Most US grads have about four to six weeks to study for Step 1 and two weeks to study for Step 2, a far cry from the six month to year long study regimens that many IMGs do. Your only existence as an IMG is to study for the damn test, while the rest of us went to a real school and learned things like coming up with a proper differential.

At my US school, we were still seeing patients during the day up to three weeks before Step 1.

Do not generalize, those are stories to make you feel good.I am a caribbean graduate that only had 4 weeks for step 1 and 3 for step 2, and did very well, reason why I am a 3rd year resident at a prestigious University program. All depend if you want to waste an entire year or jump to the match immediately.

 

[molten]

Sh*tting On Awesome People

 

[Shadow16]

Thank you all in advance for any advice that may come my way. The thread has been up and down with getting down right nasty in some cases and though tensions run high and anger, sadness and being bitter is ok for the time being, please try to not get jaded. So here's my story;
Non traditional US senior in public state medical school; long story short, had to work EMS through medical school for financial reasons. Bad at managing both and ended up repeating 2nd year for a single course failure in which remediation was not an option. Tough coming back from it but I will finish my coursework with no other failures on my record. Passed all Steps first time with below average scores(1-221 2-208 CS - P). I was always passionate about EM, Honored all my EM aways, clerkships and continued to participate in research projects that will be submitted for publication this month and next. I applied early and widely on the eastern seaboard, knowing that EM is getting more and more competitive. My application was held up until late October for one letter of rec from an away program. I received 6 interviews, which I thought had gone well, and was counseled to apply to IM/prelim as a back-up. Only received one interview at my home institution and was told by the PD that my application was so EM heavy that it was no surprise that I did not receive more IV invites in my back ups.
NOW: No match, No SOAP and about 500k in debt and not sure about my future.
Plan: Try to scramble on Monday, keeping an eye out for any openings that might occur while in the meantime returning to work to live and try to participate in anypublishable research that might bolster my re application next cycle where I will try for EM even more widely and more IM programs as many as I can afford to apply to.
Any advice out there of anything more that I should do? Constructive comments would be greatly appreciated. Best of luck to all of you....

Keeping calm and carrying on...

 

[scott1981]

This is utter bull****. Most US grads have about four to six weeks to study for Step 1 and two weeks to study for Step 2, a far cry from the six month to year long study regimens that many IMGs do. Your only existence as an IMG is to study for the damn test, while the rest of us went to a real school and learned things like coming up with a proper differential.

At my US school, we were still seeing patients during the day up to three weeks before Step 1.

i guess you too have issues with creating good differentials when you seem to be transfixed with generalizations .

many do not have much study time. all during the weeks leading up to the usmle, they need to move back from a foreign country to the states and arrange temporary living arrangements in the states, all not knowing where they are going to be doing clinicals.

all i got to say is.... wow ...... but unlike you, i will not generalize. i know that many AMG's are not like you as i have had experience doing clinicals side by side with them, as well as teaching them as a resident and attending. by in large, none have your attitude. thank goodness.

"real medical school"....... seriously? how old are we?

 

[joesephine]

stop hijacking this thread. who gives a **** about AMG vs IMG right now.

 

[NuckingFuts]

Sh*tting On Awesome People

Apparently, it seems many a good people got **** on this week.

I sincerely feel for you guys, AMG/IMG alike, irrespective of your backgrounds. You all I am sure have endured individual, relatively unique struggles, and I wish you all successful futures in which you can utilize the amazing, privileged knowledge you have accumulated over the past several years.

Keep your heads up

 

[thedeepend]

Not sure what you're getting at but honestly if anyone went the offshore route instead of going to a DO school when that was a legitimate option, it was a huge mistake.

I quite intentionally decided to go to the Caribbean vs. DO school. The cost of schooling was a huge difference and I got to live in the Caribbean for 2 years. Made perfect sense to me. I have matched into the competitive field that I wanted. It all worked out. Although, I wouldn't do it now, due to the changes that are coming.

Sorry, to add that, but I had to respond. This thread is not about any of this, it is for people in the SOAP process. Quit writing garbage in here. I'm sorry for everyone having to go through this process. I hope in the end things work out for you, one way or another.

 

[molten]

Apparently, it seems many a good people got **** on this week.

I sincerely feel for you guys, AMG/IMG alike, irrespective of your backgrounds. You all I am sure have endured individual, relatively unique struggles, and I wish you all successful futures in which you can utilize the amazing, privileged knowledge you have accumulated over the past several years.

Keep your heads up

Thank you for the thought, Nucking.

 

[chudat]

Thank you all in advance for any advice that may come my way. The thread has been up and down with getting down right nasty in some cases and though tensions run high and anger, sadness and being bitter is ok for the time being, please try to not get jaded. So here's my story;
Non traditional US senior in public state medical school; long story short, had to work EMS through medical school for financial reasons. Bad at managing both and ended up repeating 2nd year for a single course failure in which remediation was not an option. Tough coming back from it but I will finish my coursework with no other failures on my record. Passed all Steps first time with below average scores(1-221 2-208 CS - P). I was always passionate about EM, Honored all my EM aways, clerkships and continued to participate in research projects that will be submitted for publication this month and next. I applied early and widely on the eastern seaboard, knowing that EM is getting more and more competitive. My application was held up until late October for one letter of rec from an away program. I received 6 interviews, which I thought had gone well, and was counseled to apply to IM/prelim as a back-up. Only received one interview at my home institution and was told by the PD that my application was so EM heavy that it was no surprise that I did not receive more IV invites in my back ups.
NOW: No match, No SOAP and about 500k in debt and not sure about my future.
Plan: Try to scramble on Monday, keeping an eye out for any openings that might occur while in the meantime returning to work to live and try to participate in anypublishable research that might bolster my re application next cycle where I will try for EM even more widely and more IM programs as many as I can afford to apply to.
Any advice out there of anything more that I should do? Constructive comments would be greatly appreciated. Best of luck to all of you....

Keeping calm and carrying on...

Hey Shadow, that sucks man, hope you try ur luck again next cycle. Have you considered FM or Psych as even more backups to EM?

EM is getting real competitive and most people I know have scores in the 230+

Why are so many AMGs with 220+ not getting matched anywhere? Anyone have an answer?

 

[Knicks]

Any advice on how and where to find off-cycle openings?

 

[IamnotFreud]

Thank you all in advance for any advice that may come my way. The thread has been up and down with getting down right nasty in some cases and though tensions run high and anger, sadness and being bitter is ok for the time being, please try to not get jaded. So here's my story;
Non traditional US senior in public state medical school; long story short, had to work EMS through medical school for financial reasons. Bad at managing both and ended up repeating 2nd year for a single course failure in which remediation was not an option. Tough coming back from it but I will finish my coursework with no other failures on my record. Passed all Steps first time with below average scores(1-221 2-208 CS - P). I was always passionate about EM, Honored all my EM aways, clerkships and continued to participate in research projects that will be submitted for publication this month and next. I applied early and widely on the eastern seaboard, knowing that EM is getting more and more competitive. My application was held up until late October for one letter of rec from an away program. I received 6 interviews, which I thought had gone well, and was counseled to apply to IM/prelim as a back-up. Only received one interview at my home institution and was told by the PD that my application was so EM heavy that it was no surprise that I did not receive more IV invites in my back ups.
NOW: No match, No SOAP and about 500k in debt and not sure about my future.
Plan: Try to scramble on Monday, keeping an eye out for any openings that might occur while in the meantime returning to work to live and try to participate in anypublishable research that might bolster my re application next cycle where I will try for EM even more widely and more IM programs as many as I can afford to apply to.
Any advice out there of anything more that I should do? Constructive comments would be greatly appreciated. Best of luck to all of you....

Keeping calm and carrying on...

that's pretty harsh that you'd have to repeat a whole year for only one course, no? I would suggest to apply to IM and possibly transfer later on. There are still some positions open and I'm pretty sure will be positions open after today and that pop up. Needless to say being an AMG gives you an advantage. Also while you have repeated a year, I find it surprising that you did not match. I've had colleagues with lower scores than you who did match. I myself only went to a handful of interviews that I can count on my hand and matched in my specialty so maybe get some feedback if possible about what might have gone wrong. Lastly, any way that you can talk ot your school and ask if they could give you a prelim spot? Most EM programs require internship anways so that might help. Also ask your EM PD for help, if they like you, you are far more likely to get in next year. Re: your debt, you will likely never pay it off and you'll have to go on the income based repayment plan, which is forgiven after like 10 years now I think if you've made monthly payments until then.

 

[IamnotFreud]

Any advice on how and where to find off-cycle openings?

Go to one of the multiple sites that have postings - whether it is the individual specialty pages (listed yesterday), residentswap, the free database for findaresident, listings here, calling programs which not uncommonly have openings that are never advertised.

 

[hola27]

Any advice on how and where to find off-cycle openings?

residencyswap.com or.org I must tell you that most openings are advertised after PD contact other doctors..in other words, when you respond to these opening it might have been filled...so call the programs before you apply...you need to pay a fee every three months..I cant remember the fee. Another website is findaresident.com or .org, some people say this is more reliable

 

[Knicks]

Go to one of the multiple sites that have postings - whether it is the individual specialty pages (listed yesterday), residentswap, the free database for findaresident, listings here, calling programs which not uncommonly have openings that are never advertised.

Thanks. How to know which programs do this?

 

[scott1981]

Any advice on how and where to find off-cycle openings?

i am just theorizing here..... but i think its worth a shot. the acgme.org website shows how many slots a program is approved for vs how many are filled. look after the website is updated factoring this year's new resident class. if the total residents in training equal the total approved positions, but they are unequally distributed across the years.... chances are that program as at least one off cycle resident. call and find out when the off cycle resident finishes and see if they will accept another one after they finish.

this may give you an early advantage into knowing when an opening is going to happen before they are published on the websites.

 

[Taurus]

Wondering how far the mud slinging will go when 2017 comes. This AMG vs IMG debate will only intensify. If I were in med school again, I would apply much more broadly, even for FM. No sitting on your laurels anymore.

 

[rokshana]

This is utter bull****. Most US grads have about four to six weeks to study for Step 1 and two weeks to study for Step 2, a far cry from the six month to year long study regimens that many IMGs do. Your only existence as an IMG is to study for the damn test, while the rest of us went to a real school and learned things like coming up with a proper differential.

At my US school, we were still seeing patients during the day up to three weeks before Step 1.

that's impressive...given that step I is right after basic sciences...

if the USMLEs were the only criteria for residencies then IMG would get all the spots they needed if they have soooo much time and such great scores...which obviously is not the case.

whether you want to acknowledge the fact or not...there but for the grace of God...you are an AMG and not in the same boat as an IMG...you didn't come from a state with a huge number of applicants or from a state that doesn't take their own, or a state with 1 or no med school...or you simply had your act together at a younger age (or peaked in college...).

and how ethnocentric of you to think that those students in domiciled medical school in a country other than the US are not in a REAL school...in many other countries, only the best and the brightest who perform in the top 1-2% on nationalized exams even get the opportunity to go to med school...in the US other factors are usually at play.

 

[Chicarito]

I just want to say how much I sympathise with everyone who didn't match but especially all the AMGs here. I find it incredible that a system exists which will allow you to rack up a quarter of a million dollars of debt without giving you the opportunity to pay it back? My heart truly goes out to all 800 of you that didn't match, joining the 800 from last year and the year before.... It's just wrong.

I applied as an IMG from the UK with my terrible scores (albeit with a Ph.D and a lot of publications). Applied broadly - no interviews. SOAPed - no interviews. I've got one LoR from a Sub-I I did in 2008 but all my other (actually great) references are from the UK. I was disappointed but at least I've a job (albeit a poor one) being a doctor. I can't imagine what you guys are going through with this SOAP/match nightmare.

 

[HIJay]

Re: your debt, you will likely never pay it off and you'll have to go on the income based repayment plan, which is forgiven after like 10 years now I think if you've made monthly payments until then.

i want people to know the caveat to this is that during the 10 yrs of IBR repayment, youu need to work for a non-profit, tax exempt organization to have the remaining balance forgiven.
it is not like you can work any job and pay 10 yrs and the balance is gone.

 

[Shadow16]

that's pretty harsh that you'd have to repeat a whole year for only one course, no? I would suggest to apply to IM and possibly transfer later on. There are still some positions open and I'm pretty sure will be positions open after today and that pop up. Needless to say being an AMG gives you an advantage. Also while you have repeated a year, I find it surprising that you did not match. I've had colleagues with lower scores than you who did match. I myself only went to a handful of interviews that I can count on my hand and matched in my specialty so maybe get some feedback if possible about what might have gone wrong. Lastly, any way that you can talk ot your school and ask if they could give you a prelim spot? Most EM programs require internship anways so that might help. Also ask your EM PD for help, if they like you, you are far more likely to get in next year. Re: your debt, you will likely never pay it off and you'll have to go on the income based repayment plan, which is forgiven after like 10 years now I think if you've made monthly payments until then.

Thanks for the reply. Any thoughts on if it would be ok to reach out to the PDs where I interviewed and ask for feedback on how to improve for next cycle? I guess after Monday. . .