The Third Try

number-wise it looks good to me.

so it would make sense for you to focus on getting some more experiences. i would aim for medical schools in the states because it will be easier to get residencies later on.

another thing..go talk to some adcoms about your app. find out why you haven't been accepted.

 

Caveman,

I think applying a third time is the way to go. What I would advise you do is sit down and really analyze the way you are marketing yourself in your application. Do you have any friends who majored in advertising or marketing? I'm not joking here, man. My boss has a degree in marketing, and she was temendously helpful this year. She reviewed my essays for marketability, gave me pointers, wrote a letter of rec for me (a good one, I imagine). I'm pretty good at marketing (it's what I get paid to do), but she really kicked it up a notch for me.

Market your assets off!

 

Am I missing something? You don't have horrible stats and you applied to med schools in the states for two years and haven't gotten into any??

I'm sure you'll get in somewhere. If you happen to get rejected (which I doubt it), then if you're not much older than 30, then that's not "over the hill" and so I would try for a third time for an MD in the states (apply to a LOT of safety schools like Vermont). I would NOT go to the Carribean or do the DO route just yet. You'll at least get in next year if you apply to enough safety schools. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

I would definately go for it a third time. I would also do something like try to teach sex ed, or maybe volunteer at the emergency room while teaching. Anything that you could write about in secondaries or interviews. But I think you'll get in. You're on a few waitlists, just write lots of letters.

 

Last year I applied to 40 schools and got rejected by all of them without a single interview. I had a situation similar to yours with messed up undergrad grades, but a 3.8 cumulative for my master's in chemistry. I almost completely lost hope, but then I took my application to one of my professors who had taught med school for 20 years. He looked over my application and gave me suggestions on how to improve. When I contacted most of the schools, they suggested things like re-taking the MCAT or taking more courses (standard suggestions from med schools). But my professor told me I did not need to do anything other than improve the way I represented all the things I had done (For me this meant re-writing my personal statement and spending more time on the secondary essays; for you this might mean applying earlier, or improving your interviewing skills.) I followed his advice and this year was offered 7 interview invitations from the 18 schools I applied to. I have not yet been accepted, but it has been a vast improvement from last year.
Whatever you wind up doing, do not give up. Apply again. It will be worth it in the end. Good luck!

 

so why would jalbrekt not go even if he got into MCP? is he waiting for a top ten acceptance or something silly like that?
i think you should go caribbean if you aren't interested in a top residency. will applying the third time guarentee you anything?

 

I wouldn't go to an MCP for the same reason Caveman wouldn't go to a caribean school this year. My biggest problem with my aplication is my first two years of undergrad, when I failed a class and only got two A's the entire time. I feel that the more time I put between applying and those two years, the better off I would be. These past four years I have actually put a lot of effort into my schoolwork and making myself more attractive to medical schools. The biggest reason that I wouldn't get into a medical school is those two years of coursework. I feel it is better to sacrifice a year now and get into a better medical school, than go to the first possible place I can. A lot of people will say an MD is an MD, but that's not true. I realize my options would be more limited depending on what school I go to.
That is just my personal opinion and situation. I wouldn't expect everybody to agree with me, but that is what I feel is best for my life.

 

Caveman,
I think that you should reapply. You obviously must want a career in medicine; badly enough for you to do a masters program, take the mcat twice, spent a great deal of time and effort (not to mention money) in the application process,etc... Some people who have posted on this board have gotten into med school after a third time applying, so I don't feel that you are insane if you reapply again (actually I would give you a lot of credit for investing so much of yourself into this crazy process).

I think your numbers are fine (more than ample IMHO). Given that you are VERY competetive number-wise, I think that your best course of action is to find out directly from the adcoms (where you interviewed) the reason as to why you are not making the final cut with these schools. I think that your problems may lie in one of four places:

1-maybe there is something negative in your lor's
2-maybe you are not interviewing well
3-maybe there is something in your personal statement/secondary essays that is bothering adcom members
4-did you do enough volunteer work in a clinical setting?

If you wind up having to reapply again, I think that it is really important that you volunteer in a clinical setting (maybe shadow a doctor?). I think that it is great that you want want to teach but I think it is also really important that you show adcom members that you have an inkling as to what a physicians life is like and that you like working with sick people. Lastly, if you have to reapply again, I don't think that it would be such a bad idea applying to the foreign med. schools. The foreign schools could be your "safe" schools.

Don't give up hope yet! We are rootin' for you. Have you been calling and showing your overwhelming interest in the schools that have waitlisted you? I think that it is really good to be pro-active with the schools where you are waitlisted...it is a way to distinguish you among the sea of waitlisted, which will IMHO work for you .

 

Dear Caveman's Mom and Dad,

Papa Smurf here. Hope all is well with you folks. First off, I'd like to congratulate you on raising a son with such a entertaining disposition. Although some consider him to be caustic, and others have even gone so far as to call him dyspeptic, I have found him to be an invaluable source of information throughout this application process. Yes, he is brutally honest, and doesn't pull any punches, but I like it when people don't sugar coat things.

Now as a fellow Floridian, I felt I owed it to Caveman to offer my insight into his chances of matriculating at an allopathic medical school in the US. I think that in the unlikely occurance that your son, Cavey, may have to reapply to medical school a third time, he stands an excellent chance of being accepted. Now I know what you're thinking. "This kid is just wasting our hard earned money on master's degrees, secondary applications, and interview costs. If he hasn't gotten in the first two times, why the hell shouldn't we send him packing to the Carribean?"

This is a typical response, but I truly believe that in this situation, it would be the wrong decision. Cavey's situation is a little unique. Academically, he's more than qualified to attend a med school in the US. However, currently, he's being punished for his senior year grades. Upon completion of a masters degree with a very high GPA, your little bundle of joy will have demonstrated that his senior year was just a fluke, and that he really does take academics seriously. In other words, they'll know Caveman isn't spending all his time "killing kittens" while neglecting academics. A high grad GPA (3.8) coupled with a 34 on the MCAT is quite an impressive application. I believe that MCAT score is above the 90th percentile for all test takers, quite an impressive feat! Med schools will take notice at the combination of his grad GPA and his MCAT, and if he plays his cards right, he may well end up with some very nice acceptances next year. Nice as in "EMORY" nice.

As for interim plans, Caveman has indicated an interest to serve as a high school biology teacher. As entertaining as your son is, please don't let him anywhere near high schoolers!!!! Trust me, the academic community is not ready for him! I really believe that he'll get in this year, so hopefully you won't have to consider anything I've said above. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Papa Smurf

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
<strong>I wouldn't go to an MCP for the same reason Caveman wouldn't go to a caribean school this year. My biggest problem with my aplication is my first two years of undergrad, when I failed a class and only got two A's the entire time. I feel that the more time I put between applying and those two years, the better off I would be. These past four years I have actually put a lot of effort into my schoolwork and making myself more attractive to medical schools. The biggest reason that I wouldn't get into a medical school is those two years of coursework. I feel it is better to sacrifice a year now and get into a better medical school, than go to the first possible place I can. A lot of people will say an MD is an MD, but that's not true. I realize my options would be more limited depending on what school I go to.
That is just my personal opinion and situation. I wouldn't expect everybody to agree with me, but that is what I feel is best for my life.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know if this is true, but I have heard that it is really looked down upon by adcom members if you decline an acceptance at a med school b/c you want to get into a better med school. Just thinking about trying to explain your reason for ~maybe~ declining a possible MCP acceptance to a interviewer makes me nervous (meaning how do you say something like that and not come off as being arrogant ). Please don't take what I just said to be insulting b/c I don't mean it that way.

 

Jalbrekt-
well, i've meet you and that is certainly the type of answer that i would expect from you. certainly a "pre-med" type of attitude...i thought we all would have grown out of that!

first of all: who says that you will get into a better school applying the third time around (this is your second time)? in my experience, people who get into top top schools are typically not ones who have had to apply 12 times already.
secondly: it is how hard you work and how you do where you are and not where you are. i'm a good example.
thirdly: when you apply next year, most secondaries ask whether you have applied to medical school before and your interviewers may inquire as to why you gave up an acceptance. are you ready to tell them you would rather get into a top ten than become a doctor? is medicine really your priority?
lastly: i hope you can change your outlook on medical school and maybe life.
i think you'll get in this year, 8 waitlists, one of them has to come through, right?...statistically. hopefully it is baylor (that's the one you want to go to right?).

good luck!

 

I never even applied to MCP. Almost all of the schools I applied to are schools that I would go to. That was just a hypothetical situation. There was only one school that I wouldn't go to that I applied to, and I only found out that I would hate it there after my interview.

 

First of all, Cavey and Papi (and me!) are gettin' in this year.

And jalbrekt is too.

But jalbrekt, I really want to know why you would apply to a school that you would never go to if accepted? Being a Floridian with a tan, I'm not happy at the prospect of freezing my tushy off at Vermont for 4 years, but if it's my only acceptance, I'm taking it! Maybe your opinion of the school (MCP) changed after visiting?

Foxy

 

Caveman,
I am curious as to what you think are the reasons for why you have not gotten in thus far. If you have high grades, a very good mcat score, and good ec's...why do you think that you have had a tough time thus far? Have you spoken to any of those who have interviewed you about your predicament?

 

You're fairly sure you'll get an acceptance. Jalbrekt DID get an acceptance, yet you both plan(maybe) on foregoing med school this year with thoughts about how the grass is greener at the next pasture over. Maybe it is....

However, my question is if you didn't plan on embracing the acceptances from certain said schools you applied to, then why did you apply there?

What's the point of applying only to rescind your application after acceptance.(safety school?)

Why have a safety school if you won't use it?

Maybe this is a weird trend.... Applying to a bunch of schools just.. because. To hopefully be able to show off your hundreds of acceptances to friends? To be able to maybe boost your own ego by getting to reject a school so they feel your pain?

I don't mean to offend either of you with this, I'm just curious(if you do get pissed, blah whatever )

its just.... why apply to a school you don't like?

 

ok damn. some of my info was erronous... bastads. Hypothetical question still remains.. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rajneel1:
<strong>Jalbrekt-
well, i've meet you and that is certainly the type of answer that i would expect from you. certainly a "pre-med" type of attitude...i thought we all would have grown out of that!

first of all: who says that you will get into a better school applying the third time around (this is your second time)? in my experience, people who get into top top schools are typically not ones who have had to apply 12 times already.
secondly: it is how hard you work and how you do where you are and not where you are. i'm a good example.
thirdly: when you apply next year, most secondaries ask whether you have applied to medical school before and your interviewers may inquire as to why you gave up an acceptance. are you ready to tell them you would rather get into a top ten than become a doctor? is medicine really your priority?
lastly: i hope you can change your outlook on medical school and maybe life.
i think you'll get in this year, 8 waitlists, one of them has to come through, right?...statistically. hopefully it is baylor (that's the one you want to go to right?).

good luck!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What the f**k? You met me and that is the type of answer you would expect from me??? You don't know me. From what you tell me, I talked to you for like 5 minutes at MCW. Damn I must have made a terrible imperession on you or something. It's awfully easily to be condescending to people with an Stanford acceptance in your hand. Your lucky in that you wanted to be a doctor when you first got to college. (guessing) I didn't. I wanted to be a football player.
The reason I didn't get in the first time is because I had no clinical experience, a 3.18 GPA, 3 months research, but a great MCAT. I think that I have weak spots in my application which I can repare, and I'm more than willing to put in the time to fix them.

"When you apply next year..." Probably the most insulting thing you posted. Ok, I'm to pissed off to talk about the stuff you braught up.

Ok, now to respond to other peoples posts, I never turned down an acceptance. A hypothetical situation was proposed to me on a different post by Papi was if I got into the worst medical school, would I go to it. I said no. I would wait and try to apply again. That is my preference because I think I could fix what's lacking. But I never applied to any schools which I wouldn't go to (with one exception). That would be a complete waste of money.

 

My bad. I think you won't have to apply a third time. But if you had to, assuming you add just a little bit more than just a teacher (some other activity) I think you would get into a school on the caliber of Emory.

PS, thanks for bringing the attack hounds on me. Did I really do anything to desearve all of this?

 

Where is kutastha's AMAZING, inspirational story?

 

Caveman, it seems like the one thing you wanna know is whether or not you can get into a top, top school if you have to reapply. Ok, one of my problems this year was that I applied to too many TOP 20's. Actually, I think almost half the schools I applied to were top 20's. I guess that's what happens when you bust out USNEWS and match up your stats with where you'd like to matriculate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> But I have no regrets about applying to the top schools, I would just apply to more lower tier schools as well if I had to do over again. Now, the problem with trying to get into these top schools is that they have soooo many top applicants. A lot of these kids have no academic blemishes whatsoever. Great GPA's. High MCAT's. Great EC's, Great Experiences, Great everything! Now, the question is why should they take someone who has admittedly screwed up a bit in the past over someone who's performed faultlessly throughout college? You'll get your foot in the door, I have no doubt. You'll get interviews at Emory and a lot of other top schools. Whether or not you'll get in, I can't say. It's all about how strongly the interviewer feels about you, and whether he is able to convey that to the adcom. You have to be able to sell yourself at the interview. You know when the interviewer is presenting you to the committee, they're gonna be looking at any and all weaknesses. If you can truly convince your interviewers that all your troubles are in the past, then I think you got a good chance at some top schools. Maybe not Cornell, but I think Emory would be a great fit, and I know you love that school. But it don't matter, since you're getting in this year!

 

All right, Cavey, I'm sorry. I think if you reapply you will have an excellent chance, but maybe you should try a unique EC, like working in a free clinic or homeless shelter or something that shows compassion in a health-care setting.

But hopefully you won't have to reapply!

 

sorry i have misinterpreted your question.

i guess i'll try to answer line by line to minimize that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by A. Caveman:
<strong>what do you guys think my chances would be if I had to apply for a third time. </strong>

 

Caveman-
I think that you should reapply for a third time and it looks as though you have a good shot at getting into a decent allopathic school. However, I recall several medical schools mentioning something to the effect, "If you've applied to our school twice in the past, we strongly discourage a third application." Keep your eyes open for statements such as these on applications.

 

hehe, i didn't misunderstand you. I just focused in on one of the replies. It was something along the lines of Jalbrekt being accepted somewhere but declining so as to apply again... and later in the thread you mentioned you'd most likely be accepted somewhere anyways(and yet you still talk about a third try <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )(however this is being smart and thinkin ahead)(BUT ANYWAYS, sorry for not staying on your original topic hehe)

in so far as applying next year if necessary. Np. Get your app in early, the grad work will help and I think the teaching would be a) a lot of fun and b) very enriching

but anywayz, lets just keep positive about you being accepted this year. Attitude is everything, makes the world spin round. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

A. Caveman,

You're young. I would go for a third try. You know what they say? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I applied to a wide range of schools, but was still top heavy. Subsequently I have received 12 rejection letters, on hold at 1 school, and have not heard back (though they should be rejections) from 3 (hopkins, harvard, and loyola).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi oldman,
I'm hearing a LOT of this from other students. It's good to apply to a bunch of schools, but a common mistake is to not have enough "safety schools" (Vermont, ...) which have more lenient criteria.

Not great news from Loyola...I read several weeks ago on this message board that the class was full. I'm not sure?? (You wouldn't to go there anyways....it's too cold! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> )

Have you interviewed with the school that has you "on hold"? Good luck!

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by praying4MD:
<strong>Where is kutastha's AMAZING, inspirational story? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">kutastha's drunk and tired, but he'll post it tomorrow if people can stop bickering at each other....

 

Caveman - With your great stats and awesome graduate program performance, I've no doubt that you'll get in this year IF you play it right. That means keeping in touch with schools post-interview and making sure to let'em know that you've been kicking butt in a rigorous program. Don't just send them any old update letters, but take time to write thoughtful and well-timed letters.

As for applying next year in spite of this year's acceptance into a 2nd-tier school, I think it's certainly a risk but I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea at all. My former Princeton Review teacher did the same school. The only school she'd gotten into the first time was NYMC. She turned them down and reapplied with better credentials. In the second cycle, she got into something like 10 schools, including a few top notch schools. She went on to UofMichigan.

Now, if it were me, I would never think about turning down an acceptance this year to reapply next year. That is because my MCAT score's 30 (just about the best I could've done), I haven't done anything throughout this past year to significantly change my credentials, and I only applied to schools I don't have a problem going to. But your case is different. Despite your senior-year blemish, your undergrad GPA is still 3.3 and you will have racked up a 3.8 in your grad program as a new credential for next year. Plus, you have a 34 MCAT. I'm not recommending you to go one way or another. Even if you go to a third-tier med school this fall, it's very much possible to land a great residency if you're going for a non-competitive field like family medicine. But I'm just saying that you'll be a great applicant in my book, if you were to reapply next year.

 

Although luckily this wasn't my case, I knew several people who got in on their FOURTH try. The typical, pessimistic med school applicant that I was at the time, I always asked them for advice. So here goes:

Don't limit your options: Whether or not this is true, you are supposed to be of the mindset and MD is an MD. You can try the " Well I didn't think that schools below the top ten really reflected my best intersts" but I don't think this will go over to well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . Adcoms like persistance but not arrogance and stupidity.

Most schools offer the chance to do a post-rejection interview. In which after the admissions cycle, you can meet with the dean and discuss how your application could have been better. Don't mistake this for an appeal! Remember this would take place after the admissions cycle, that way you can get some candid and honest answers to your questions.

One re-applicant, ( I actually met on an interview) told me how he was advised by an adcom to demonstrate 'changes' in his amcas when he reapplied. It is frowned upon to resubmit basically the same application ( same essay, doing the same EC's etc). Just like in medicine, if you had a patient that was not responding well to a treatment, You would not say " Well keep ontaking it and let see what happens".

make these changes the positive focus of your re-submitted application ( i.e. After unsuccessfully applying to medical school in 2002, I decided to relieve some stress by ....) Hopefully you will be able to complete this sentence with something related to people and healthcare. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Just like in SDN, it can be very apparent to an adcom who is just 'padding' their resume to get in and who is sincere about their work. If adcom's think you will be happier doing something other than medicine, they will take it upon themselves to give you the time to do it. What does your free time consist of? What do you like to do for fun? When you talk about volunteering in an Hospital do your eyes light up? Or do they roll to the back of your head as you think about being around the sick and elderly.

As you think about things you should pause question if healthcare is right for you. I am not trying to sound mean here... Questioning is an intelligent process. Once again using the healthcare example, if you came in for a tumor biopsy on your leg, and asked the Doctor, " Well should I have this thing amputated or will chemo be fine?"... and he immediately replies" That's crazy! Chemo's fine". Wouldn't you be concerned? You should be able to tell an adcom, " After being rejected from your school two times, I wondered if medicine is right for me. So I took some time and explored nursing /pharmacy school/ dentistry/law/buisness. (BTW, Please be able these without grinding your teeth) And I decided these fields weren't best for me because of x,y and z.

Above all remain positive, not cocky, just positive. I can only imagine how I would want to break down and beg for forgiveness in hopes the Admissions committee would feel pity. Be like, " I really would like to be here in 2003. I have worked hard to demonstrate that. if you feel otherwise during this interview please let me know and we can discuss it." Don't make up excuses for your past mistakes. Apologize, show how you have learned from them and move on.

OK I will stop now, since I see the sun rising. I wish you the best of luck. I would tell you to consider Morehouse, but you probably think this school is 'ranked to low'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

Caveman,

I suggest you give it a third shot if you don't get in this year. Your stats are competitive and your MCATs are even competitive for any top 10 school. A personal friend of mine applied 1st time and got rejected or waitlisted by every school. Upon 2nd try, my friend ended up at HARVARD medical school. Might sound like BS but it's true. That's all I'm going to say on that.

 

okay, here's the scoop from a reapplicant who went the grad school route (and, of course, this is advice that is only necessary should you NOT be accepted during this cycle):

what most adcoms won't explicitly tell you is that many, if not most, still screen based on your undergrad GPA and MCAT, regardless of a stellar graduate performance. as you noticed on the AMCAS app, your grad GPA is factored totally separately from your undergrad GPA. med schools have thousands of applications to sort through, so some objective screening does happen in the early stages to see who gets a secondary, who gets an interview, etc, etc. and to make the process go quickly, as we all know, many will just select those applicants with certain GPAs or MCATs (above a cut-off, or a certain combination, or whatever). the fact is, in these crucial early stages, often any graduate work goes unnoticed because the screening is done primarily based on undergrad stats. yes, adcoms often advise applicants to take grad-level courses to prove they can handle the work, but the fact is, generaly speaking, no one will ever notice a stellar grad performance if your undergrad GPA isn't at least somewhat competitive and your app thus moves to the next level of scrutiny. this also holds true for ECs--at many schools, no one will ever get a chance to take notice of what you may have accomplished outside the classroom if your numbers aren't up to snuff.

so what's my point? my point is that your great grad GPA isn't going to matter as much as you think because many schools may screen you out based on your undergrad GPA before an adcom can take notice of it. so i would really put less faith into your grad performance's ability to impress adcoms. i have a 4.0 grad GPA, numerous publications, great in-depth ECs (well, in my opinion, anyway) and didn't hear squat from the majority of the 23 schools i applied to (although i did get into the ones that mattered so i can live with it), because my undergrad science GPA sucks and none of the above factors cancelled it out. based on the above, if i had to apply a third time, i would go back and take *undergrad* level science courses to boost my undergrad GPA. it sounds stupid since i'm several years out of college and i'll have a graduate degree under my belt, but the bottom line is that the initial objective screening that goes on is based on this number. this is the distinct advantage of going the post-bacc route to improve your app because post-bacc grades count as undergrad courses.

anyway, i've gone on long enough, and what i'm trying to say is that if you applied a third time, you won't be as competitive as you think. i would take a year off to take some undergrad-level courses to get that undergrad GPA up, and THEN reapply. blindly reapplying without really adding too much to your app will really screw you up. many schools limit how many times you can apply (generally no more than three) so you really have to play your cards right IF you have to apply again.

 

Wow. It sure sounds like Cavey is thinking about what I would HYPOTHETICALLY do. And a lot of people are suggesting it.

One point of advice which I will echo, grad school GPA doesn't cancel out undergrad GPA. At least not completely. I've been doing a Masters and have a 3.8 GPA in that, and I didn't get the interviews I thaught I would get using that GPA and looking at USnews. But I think you would do great if you applied a third time. And the only school I remember saying that if you applied a third time we won't accept you was Einstien. All the others didn't ask.
I think 3 times I was asked why I didn't get in when I applied two years ago.

 

Be sure to write letters to the waitlisted schools to tell them about your complete graduate record. I would break it up into about 3 letters so they know your really interested. I counted, and by this July I have 9 letters schedualed to be written to Baylor.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
<strong>Be sure to write letters to the waitlisted schools to tell them about your complete graduate record. I would break it up into about 3 letters so they know your really interested. I counted, and by this July I have 9 letters schedualed to be written to Baylor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Damn Jalbrekt, there's a fine line between expressing your interest in a school and harassing the poor ladies in the admissions office. 9 letters is a bit extreme IMHO, but to each his own.