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deleted87051
I agree it could happen again.
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I agree it could happen again.
For me, I can easily imagine a worse "worst case" scenario. He chooses Warren or some other far left as his VP and ends up dying in office or stepping down for medical reasons, leaving the country in the hands of that VP. I pray he picks a more moderate VP, as that would make my decision easier come November.
I'd call that the overwhelmingly most likely scenario.
If you really want to go down the "way more unlikely worst case scenarios" rabbit hole then think of what comes with Trump and an emboldened second term, considering he's already firing inspector generals, granting gratuitous pardons, and having his AG let off his criminal cronies....even after being impeached during first term. There are nightmare scenarios there that a Warren VP pick doesn't even begin to touch. And that doesn't even include the utter failure of his response to the first real public emergency / disaster of his presidency.
Smoke and mirrors. We’re talking about Cuomo, SNFs (already grave yards pre-COVID), racism in the South, the liberal media and anything else you can rather than admit the simple fact that our seated President has done a horrible job of providing leadership in this time. These things have nothing to do with any of that - it is a distraction (even if a valid one) from the failure of our executive branch. If it’s such an obviously terrible decision why doesn’t the federal government step in and stop it?
The trump administration expects each state to create a comprehensive COVID plan even when shared state borders embark on the opposite plan, to pay their own unemployment, to build new hospitals from the ground up for the sickest population, and to provide hazard pay to all the front lines - as they fail this Sisyphean task our federal government points its finger and tells them they should have prepared better. Or even worse, undermines and belittles their efforts as if he knew all along it was a bad idea.
Don’t get distracted. This is a failure of leadership. If anything like this was attempted by a hospital CEO during a disaster they would be fired.
I look into governors more than i care what Trump does when it comes to covid responses because governors know their states better than Trump.
I don't deny Trump says and does dumb things but he's a response to the dysfunctional politics that have been happening for decades. I know he says dumb things even back in Obama's first term so i don't know why i should be surprised that Trump continues to do dumb stuff when states are handling the covid response?
I'm not a politician but i've been pushing for test/trace/isolate for a while since i hate lockdowns a lot. The fact that Trump didn't take it seriously is bad but not surprising at all. I'm a lot more affected by the decisions made by governors than whatever Trump is doing. I also hate the bizarre Cuomo worship and am willing to slam him and his bad decisions easily.
I'm also affected by the continuing erosion of research standards by the sudden flood of preprints and low quality covid research. I guess i'm more bothered by deep systemic issues than Trump's behavior.
What evil mess that the democrats are pushing through were you referring to?
It's hard to keep up with everything, so I'm wondering what evil has emerged now.
You’re so affected by your governors decisions BECAUSE OF Trump. If we had a national standard of testing (even just to compare test A accuracy to test B), utilization of the national guard (signed up and are paid for this) to clean and sanitize critical areas such as meat packing facilities or airports, federally run testing centers (sounds like jobs to me), contact tracing (jobs), federal production of N95 masks for “essential workers” (more jobs) - then your governors dumb decisions would cause you a lot less harm.
Just because you're not "surprised" by something doesn't mean you can handwave away egregious or negligent behavior with an "oh shucks, I guess Trump will be Trump." This kind of fatigue toward his incompetence is what his reelection campaign is counting on.
Also, your weird governorhate blindspot is making you miss the big picture. I like testing, contact tracing, and selective quarantine too. Guess who has the capacity to compel industry to make 300 million tests? Guess who has the ability to hire thousands of people to keep track of millions of people (something they do every 10 years)? Guess who has a reserve force capable of massive nationwide deployment for disaster assistance? It sure as **** isn't just the state of Rhode Island.
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I posted few links earlier from NYTimes about the state order forcing nursing homes to take in covid patients.
So basically you're supporting a strong federal covid response, like that seen in South Korea and New Zealand. Guess what, so was I back since January. But I wasn't really expecting Trump to be a strong federal leader in the first place and I'll honestly be surprised if any Democrats were expecting strong leadership from Trump in a pandemic response.
Trump's focus is to repair the economy and the sad, tragic state is he doesn't care how many die as long as covid doesn't affect him or his allies. It's his malignant personality that was known for decades. I really don't want to defend Trump. I just think expecting something promising from him is unrealistic.
I guess we'll have to blame the 2016 GOP voters for nominating Trump, because i don't know why you're expecting anything favorable from him? If the 22nd amendment got repealed and Obama is serving a 3rd term, i really believe the situation would be handled a lot better. I wasn't expecting something like test/trace/isolate to come from Trump so i was just hopelessly mentioning it in case some miracle happens.
The "governorhate blindspot" is in reference to the fact that states make bad and fatal mistakes that can't be blamed on Trump or federal government. It was Cuomo's decision to force nursing homes to take in covid patients rather than setting up covid only health centers, and i mentioned this specifically because he's overrated and doesn't deserve high approval ratings. Imo Trump's approval ratings should be lower but blame it on polarized politics.
I'm not expecting anything favorable from him. I'm expecting those who also aren't expecting anything favorable from him to act as if they care about that fact, and an added bonus to that is they vote in November and convince others who are like minded to vote as well.
Also, we get it already. Governors have failings too. As I pointed out earlier, Cuomo was one of those who actually said awhile ago that NY state govt has been playing catchup with the virus since the beginning. There is not a single leader out there at any level of government who has had a perfect response to COVID, but as myself and other pointed out, much of this stems from the lack of federal help and leadership. I think Cuomo is overrated too, but I think his approval ratings are somewhat deserved even if they are merely based on things like communicating in an honest and direct fashion with his state every single day for the last 2 months regardless of whether he was able to do all the things that were needed or that he wanted to do.
Considering what the models where predicting, I think we should all be very thankful.
Who gets credit for flattening the curve?
Who gets credit for flattening the curve?
No worse scenario than the radical far left scenario being pushed by so many. Know your history. The same large government control lunacy gets talked up often throughout time when a country stumbles through a crisis, only to find the fake greener pasture is really just a pile of brown smelly manure. Now is not the time to gamble on the left. I'll take my chances with the Chlorox guzzler everyday, twice on Sundays.
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People who actually have suffered and stayed at home have flattened the curve. The only worry is if we are re-releasing them into the wild too soon and the curve skyrockets back up again.
Certainly not the orange man who endorsed injecting Lysol. He’s perhaps the biggest war criminal of this century causing uneccesary death and suffering to tens of thousands of people due to his incompetence and sheer stupidity.
Agreed. But we have to get back into the wild eventually and from what I observe the majority of the country is ready to do so when looking at healthcare readiness.
By being one of the presidents of the United States these past two decades.
He's just a run of the mill criminal for what he's done these past weeks.
Again be more specific...so being a president makes you a war criminal at baseline.
What happened in the past couple weeks that makes him a criminal? Being the president?
No the worst war criminals are Nixon and Kissinger by a pretty large margin.
Yes, that’s why I said this century
Bush is still worse imo
That’s a close tie. But Trump isn’t out of the office yet
Well, if Biden wins we'll soon find out!
Surprisingly, this board is giving Obama a pass.
Syrian Red Line
ISIS
Iran Nukes
Benghazi
Bergdahl
Libya
Drone Strikes
Feel free to add what else I forgot off of the top of my head.
President Obama, who hoped to sow peace, instead led the nation in war
President Obama came to office vowing to end America's foreign wars and take the country off its permanent war footing. He leaves a very different legacy as he prepares to hand his commander-in-chief responsibilities to Donald Trump.
www.latimes.com
why cant we get a middle man. someone who isnt about giving a boatload of free money/stuff to everyone and someone who isn't all corporate about money.
Because the neoliberals still control the government
Example of a very evil neoliberal:
en.m.wikipedia.org
I'm pushing very strongly for her crushing defeat in primaries and general election
Kelly Loeffler - Wikipedia
I'm pushing very strongly for her crushing defeat in primaries and general election
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deleted87051
Isn’t that Biden?
Example of a very evil neoliberal:
Kelly Loeffler - Wikipedia
I'm pushing very strongly for her crushing defeat in primaries and general election
You very clearly don't know the definition of that word if she's your example of one.
Neoliberalism itself has no meaning. It's a pejorative used to attack all corporate sellouts in government.
No, Biden is an empty shell. We'll know more once he announces a VP pick.
Um, no
""Neoliberalism" is contemporarily used to refer to market-oriented reform policies such as "eliminating price controls, deregulating capital markets, lowering trade barriers" and reducing state influence in the economy, especially through privatization and austerity.[6 "
Loeffler is a Trumpist through and through. Pro-wall, anti-NAFTA, pro-tariff, pro-blowing up the deficit (aka opposite of austerity). If "corporate sellout" by itself was the definition then 90% of all members of Congress would be neoliberals.
Again the word is used vacuously that it has minimal to no meaning. Neoliberalism supports bailing out banks and expanded state control when market failures occur. Read the wikipedia page and you'll see it's not as clear cut like you're making. It's an ideological scam that causes a lot of problems like the financial crisis. This is in contrast to libertarianism which actually truly supports free markets and reduced government involvement.
Trump doesn't want to be associated with her in any way and is pushing for Doug Collins to whack her in the elections this year. He never wanted her to be a Senator until Georgia governor ignored his pressure in putting Collins in.
So lemme get this straight...first you say the word is generic corporate sellout, then you say that it has minimal to no meaning, or actually it also means supports bailing out banks and state control of markets.
Do you think it's perhaps a bad idea for you to go about spewing "very evil neoliberal" when you, yourself, have no clear idea of what you're trying to say? I mean, would you say Trump is a neoliberal too?
Also, I didn't say Trump supported her unconditionally. I said she was a Trumpist, through and through. Hence why she described herself as such:
Kelly Loeffler will say she’s ‘pro-military, pro-wall and pro-Trump’ at Senate intro
Kelly Loeffler will say she’s ‘pro-military, pro-wall and pro-Trump’ at Senate intro
Kelly Loeffler intends to portray herself as strong supporter of President Donald Trump, a critic of the “impeachment circus” and an outspoken opponent of abortion rights when she’s introduced Wednesday as Georgia’s next U.S. senator.
Maybe you shouldn't take the first paragraph of the wikipedia page literally without understanding what the word means. Neoliberalism supports government expansion to help corporations and banks through policies that generally favor the rich and hurt everyone else. That's why the word is associated strongly with a corporate sellout and is used repeatedly to attack bank bailout measures nonstop to the point that people recognize the word has little meaning other than being used as an insult.
Libertarians don't support bailouts and expanded government state. Unlike neoliberals, libertarians actually know what they're talking about with regards to free markets and economic policy
This sorts out the differences a bit: What is the difference between neoliberalism and libertarianism? - Quora
LOL, who are you kidding? Just admit that you had no idea what it meant or its most common usage in today's parlance and you literally just looked it up on wikipedia 5 minutes ago after it was pointed out to you that "very evil neoliberal Kelly Loeffler" is purestrain nonsense.
Just FYI, what that word actually means to most people in the year 2020 is as a reference to left-leaning politicians who eschewed most of the ideals of the New Deal democrats including the huge emphasis on domestic manufacturing, labor unions, protectionism etc in favor of other more free market or technocratic ideas (growth, investment, private-public partnership). Probably the most famous neoliberal politician of all time is Bill Clinton, who received a lot of criticism from traditional liberals for adopting some of Reagan's ideas. Other prominent neoliberals are people like Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, Hillary, and to some extent Obama. An example of a liberal who is most decidedly not a neoliberal is Bernie.
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Lmao right of course. You're acting like the word has any meaningful value other than trying to rip off some things from the classical definition of the word liberalism and enforcing corporate friendly state measures.
No neoliberal is not just associated with left wing. Literally one of the biggest complaints of neoliberalism involves critics attacking Republicans who supported right wing rebellions in Chile to force through market reforms. Neoliberalism is assuredly a bipartisan ideology. That's why the ideology is repeatedly attacked validly by politicians from Trump's allies and conservatives, as well as from progressives
You should take a look at this to get some added insights: Libertarianism and Neoliberalism – A difference that matters?
Also:
I’m not going to touch on Biden’s moderation, but it is fascinating watching his campaign now move further left. He won the primary over Bernie because he’s at least perceived as a moderate—and now he’s forming task forces w Bernie to tackle major domestic issues and bringing on AOC and a major Bernie campaign person as well. He also talked about Beto playing a role in his gun policy a few months ago.
Shifting gears a bit to more covid
www.wsj.com
U.S. Stocks Surge as Hopes for Coronavirus Vaccine Build
The Dow industrials surged 3.9%, recovering ground following their biggest weekly percentage drop in nearly two months.
www.wsj.com
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deleted126335
Politics is about compromise. Gotta energize the base. No different than Trump giving the anti-choice folks what they want. I am sure Donald Trump (before he was interested in running for President) was very pro-choice. Especially for his mistresses.
Bud, you gotta start reading what I actually wrote instead of what you imagined I wrote. I didn't say "just" associated with the left wing, as obviously in an academic sense (or in the sense sometimes used by libertarians) its strict definition could apply broadly to members of multiple party affiliations. What I said is that's what the word actually means to *most* people nowadays in 2020 parlance. I'm sure it wouldn't come as a shock to you or others on the forum to discover that I follow various left and far-left leaning political forums and social media. You are correct that "neoliberal" is a pejorative, but today it's almost exclusively and overwhelmingly used as a pejorative by progressives to describe more moderate Clinton/Biden center-left technocrats who have forgotten their FDR roots. In any case, there is still not a person on Earth who would be able to make heads or tails of "very evil neoliberal Kelly Loeffler."
Democrats and neoliberalism
These days, the meaning of “neoliberal” has become fuzzy. But it has a long history of association with the Democratic Party.
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deleted87051
Shifting gears a bit to more covid
U.S. Stocks Surge as Hopes for Coronavirus Vaccine Build
The Dow industrials surged 3.9%, recovering ground following their biggest weekly percentage drop in nearly two months.
Would be wonderful if it works. Storing, distributing and transporting an RNA vaccine could be a challenge though. Our logistics have been shown to be very weak.
His name was Ron Paul, but his small army of diehard followers was vastly outnumbered by the individuals and corporations that wanted all that free stuff.
Perfect time to sell a few positions and come back in when the inevitable crestfall occurs.Shifting gears a bit to more covid
U.S. Stocks Surge as Hopes for Coronavirus Vaccine Build
The Dow industrials surged 3.9%, recovering ground following their biggest weekly percentage drop in nearly two months.
Most people just associate neoliberal with liberal and attack it from both sides. Republicans attack liberals for supporting big government in free markets. Progressives attack liberals for essentially surrendering to corporate interests and worsening income inequality. Also not to mention people from all sides attack globalization which neoliberals solidly back.
I'm just using the word loosely to describe any and all corporate sellouts. Why? Because neoliberals were the ones pushing for bank bailouts and corporate friendly measures. You gave an example of Clinton being a well known neoliberal, and he was the one who pushed through financial deregulation that set the stage for the financial crisis. I read neoliberal media like Financial Times and the repeated corporate friendly suggestions come off too strong to ignore
Kelly Loeffler probably said all pro Trump comments purely out of politics because she knows Trump hates her and was pushing very strongly for Doug Collins. But her actions and crime of insider trading comes across as a gross caricature of corrupt corporate politicians. Hence why i viewed her as a corporate sellout and so by association called her as a neoliberal. You're right this wouldn't make sense when referring to a Trump ally.
