The undisputed, most in demand field in Pathology.

[coroner]

The numbers don’t lie: it’s Forensics

A recent New York Times article was printed after the recent death of Supreme Court Justice Scalia, who was found dead in bed at his West Texas ranch. No autopsy was performed which brought its need in question by various experts. A relatively small number of autopsies are performed in Texas because of a lack of forensic pathologists. Dr. Vincent DiMaio, a nationally renowned forensic pathologist said,

“We do not have enough [forensic pathologists] to do the cases we should do,” Dr. Di Maio said, explaining that about 500 forensic pathologists are practicing in the United States and that and estimated 1,500 are needed in the country.

Here’s another article a couple of years ago from The Wall Street Journal citing the shortage of forensic pathologists. One interesting tidbit:

Here’s an amazing statistic: Since 1959, the country has minted a total of 1,400 board-certified forensic pathologists. Today, there are an estimated 500 full-time forensic pathologists in the U.S.— about 1,000 fewer than many believe are needed to provide adequate coverage in the U.S.

That works out to about 10 FP’s per state, and probably less in the more rural ones. People can argue all they want about how good or bad is the job market, when the so-called retirement cliff that we’ve been waiting on going to happen, ASCP/ CAP surveys and so forth, but there is no dispute here. There is a definite, current shortage with an immediate demand in this field. So med students and residents who are skeptical about career prospects in path, here’s your guaranteed meal ticket!

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[icpshootyz]

So med students and residents who are skeptical about career prospects in path, here’s your guaranteed meal ticket!

...except that would imply that states are going to increase funding to hire and pay for more Medical Examiners. Which they're not :/

 

[LADoc00]

the pay by and large is HORRIBLE. The scrutiny with politicians and LE is off the charts. I could not imagine a more stressful field tbh within pathology.

Would be fun though and lots of cocktail party type stories. I could imagine a young dude who already has it together really tearing up the single scene as a FP in his late 20s/30s/early 40s. Dark Hipster suit and 500 dollar dress shoes at the Bitter and Twisted Bar in downtown Phoenix or listening to music at 550 Montgomery in SF for example would own the scene. Would go all dark and brooding mode but then pop out occasionally to get hot chicks to ask you what you do for a living and watch the magic happen. Sounds awesome.

But aside from that, it is a total dud.

 

[Deucedano]

the pay by and large is HORRIBLE. The scrutiny with politicians and LE is off the charts. I could not imagine a more stressful field tbh within pathology.

Would be fun though and lots of cocktail party type stories. I could imagine a young dude who already has it together really tearing up the single scene as a FP in his late 20s/30s/early 40s. Dark Hipster suit and 500 dollar dress shoes at the Bitter and Twisted Bar in downtown Phoenix or listening to music at 550 Montgomery in SF for example would own the scene. Would go all dark and brooding mode but then pop out occasionally to get hot chicks to ask you what you do for a living and watch the magic happen. Sounds awesome.

But aside from that, it is a total dud.

This is a ridiculous and hilarious post. I can always rely on LADoc00 to provide some ridiculous commentary to make reading this board bearable.

 

[Mace1370]

the pay by and large is HORRIBLE. The scrutiny with politicians and LE is off the charts. I could not imagine a more stressful field tbh within pathology.

Would be fun though and lots of cocktail party type stories. I could imagine a young dude who already has it together really tearing up the single scene as a FP in his late 20s/30s/early 40s. Dark Hipster suit and 500 dollar dress shoes at the Bitter and Twisted Bar in downtown Phoenix or listening to music at 550 Montgomery in SF for example would own the scene. Would go all dark and brooding mode but then pop out occasionally to get hot chicks to ask you what you do for a living and watch the magic happen. Sounds awesome.

But aside from that, it is a total dud.

Pure gold. I still wouldn't touch FP with a 10 foot pole, though, lol.

 

[mlw03]

Ok, as one of the few FPs on here, I'll chime in (briefly). There's nothing new here - plenty of jobs in FP, and plenty to come in the years ahead. Go to either the NAME or AAFS meeting and hang around the FPs - not exactly an under 40 crowd. You gotta be willing to move around to where the job is though, although once there, you can usually stay as long as you want so long as you're competent and get along.

Pay is variable - a few jobs are posted in the low 100s (and struggle to find good applicants), a few in the US are over 200K, and Canadian jobs are well into the low 300s CAD (at 0.75USD at present). Most US jobs are in the mid-upper 100s, so 160-180K range. Here are the links to the two main sites where North American (and occasionally Australia/NZ) jobs are posted, although many, many jobs are filled via word of mouth. There's less than 600 of us - we pretty much all know each other, or have less than 2 degrees of separation. https://netforum.avectra.com/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?Site=NAME&WebCode=Jobs and https://webdata.aafs.org/public/jobs/postings.aspx (this one includes other forensic science listings too).

 

[LADoc00]

mlw does the magic happen for you when people ask you what you do for a living?? just curious. Not sure if you are dude or a chick.

 

[mlw03]

ha, what's 'the magic' LA? I'm a guy, married. my wife and I got together when I was in residency, she didn't really care about FP from 'that' aspect, was more interested in the fact that it meant we'd have to move for where my job was (she has much greater geographic flexibility with her profession). for what it's worth, most FPs are pretty normal in my experience, if anything I'd say many of us are more work-family balanced than other pathologists.

my answer to the 'what do you do?' question depends on the audience and my mood. of course I can tell crazy stories (as can any FP... we see the worst and weirdest stuff human beings do to one another), but I never say anything that isn't in the public domain, and I always remember the 'story' I'm telling is someone's son or daughter.

 

[coroner]

the pay by and large is HORRIBLE.

By and large, yes it's not a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but that's where biz skillz comes in. There are other avenues for income streams for FP's. The majority of them don't rely soley on standard issue county gov't paychecks to put bread on the table. I did an extra forensic elective in residency and the county coroner did a pretty good job marketing himself in the region to provide expert consultation/legal testimony in forensic cases for which he charged $200/hr. Granted, these projects were squeezed in between his primary occupation, but it's still more than your standard AP/CP guy is going to get doing locums.

Also, there are some who subcontract with large hospitals to do their posts because the community paths don't want to deal with them. And, finally private practice is an option. Although most FP's will become gov't wage slaves who'd make junior faculty paths in academia seem like members of the Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, FL, guys like Baden, Wecht, etc. have built a rep to where the are sought after by the rich and famous to perform autopsies or provide expert testimony. Granted they are a fringe element in the field of FP. But, taking advantage of such fringe opportunities are ways in which one could capitalize in any field, including forensics.

 

[LADoc00]

ha, what's 'the magic' LA? I'm a guy, married. my wife and I got together when I was in residency, she didn't really care about FP from 'that' aspect, was more interested in the fact that it meant we'd have to move for where my job was (she has much greater geographic flexibility with her profession). for what it's worth, most FPs are pretty normal in my experience, if anything I'd say many of us are more work-family balanced than other pathologists.

Uh you got together in residency...uh..I am reminded of Swingers in such situations:
Trent: You know what you are? You're like a big bear with claws and with fangs...

Sue: ...big f**g teeth, man.

Trent: Yeah... big ****in' teeth on ya'. And she's just like this little bunny, who's just kinda cowering in the corner.

Sue: Shivering.

Trent: Yeah, man just kinda... you know, you got these claws and you're staring at these claws and your thinking to yourself, and with these claws you're thinking, "How am I supposed to kill this bunny, how am I supposed to kill this bunny?"

Sue: And you're poking at it, you're poking at it...

Trent: Yeah, you're not hurting it. You're just kinda gently batting the bunny around, you know what I mean? And the bunny's scared Mike, the bunny's scared of you, shivering.

Sue: And you got these f**ing claws and these fangs...

Trent: And you got these ****ing claws and these fangs, man! And you're looking at your claws and you're looking at your fangs. And you're thinking to yourself, you don't know what to do, man. "I don't know how to kill the bunny." With *this* you don't know how to kill the bunny, do you know what I mean?