Theoretically, can a specialist pay back their 200k loan in 2-3 years?

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Burla said:
FYI If you're in the 33% tax bracket for federal income tax, you don't pay 33% on all your money. It's only 33% on the money you made over the previous tax bracket. Seems like people make this mistake on here a lot
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The beauty of marginal tax brackets.
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streampaw said:
Lol you guys, I'm living with my parents and going to state school, because they are paying for tuition. No debt in undergrad. But they arent rich enough to pay for any of med school whatsoever.
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Lucky you. Debt won't kill you, btw.
 
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gettheleadout said:
This would get you $200k+ need-based scholarship aid at HMS, just by the way.
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with a 70k income?
My parents get a combined maybe ~30k if they're lucky, probably less. (mother is a waitress and dad works at a machine shop). What would that get me? :LOL:
 
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ciestar said:
with a 70k income?
My parents get a combined maybe ~30k if they're lucky, probably less. (mother is a waitress and dad works at a machine shop). What would that get me? :LOL:
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HAHA I know right?! There is hope!
 
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Aerus said:
Really? :O
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ciestar said:
with a 70k income?
My parents get a combined maybe ~30k if they're lucky, probably less. (mother is a waitress and dad works at a machine shop). What would that get me? :LOL:
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Aerus said:
HAHA I know right?! There is hope!
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Harvard's endowment is insane; the financial aid at HMS is unusually good. Read the info on their financial aid website I linked to. If your parents' combined gross income is <$100k then they waive the parental contribution in their calculation of need. The unit loan goes up to like $28k-ish and the rest of the ~$80k per year total cost is covered by the HMS scholarship.
 
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gettheleadout said:
Harvard's endowment is insane; the financial aid at HMS is unusually good. Read the info on their financial aid website I linked to. If your parents' combined gross income is <$100k then they waive the parental contribution in their calculation of need. The unit loan goes up to like $28k-ish and the rest of the ~$80k per year total cost is covered by the HMS scholarship.
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Damn. If only I had the credentials to get into Harvard.
 
gettheleadout said:
Harvard's endowment is insane; the financial aid at HMS is unusually good. Read the info on their financial aid website I linked to. If your parents' combined gross income is <$100k then they waive the parental contribution in their calculation of need. The unit loan goes up to like $28k-ish and the rest of the ~$80k per year total cost is covered by the HMS scholarship.
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Wow, thanks for the info!
 
sazerac said:
In theory, a medical graduate could do a three year residency, and then "live like a resident" for another two years while an attending, and make huge loan payments. Is this really possible? Of course it is. Graduates do five year residencies all the time, or do a two year fellowship.

In reality, doctors are financially ******ed and live paycheck to paycheck. If their income goes up by $150,000 then so do their expenses. Instantly. It's just the nature of the profession.

There was a funny thread here a few years ago where payroll had a snafu and was going to be two days late. Doctors called payroll frantically because all these mortgages and boat payments and car payments and private school tuition payments were going to bounce. Doctors making $30,000 a month had so little float they were going to be insolvent on account of their paycheck showing up on a monday instead of the previous friday. It was unreal.
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Thank you! I don't understand why everyone keeps acting like living on $40k is all 'sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice'. That's a good, healthy, I-don't-have-to-make-a-budget-anymore salary.
 
mehc012 said:
Thank you! I don't understand why everyone keeps acting like living on $40k is all 'sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice'. That's a good, healthy, I-don't-have-to-make-a-budget-anymore salary.
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err 40k is no where near that kind of money.
 
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gettheleadout said:
I don't expect to be distressed by the lifestyle of a resident's income, but I'll certainly still have a budget.
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Haha, sorry...I meant 'have a budget' in the sense that you can't buy anything outside of what you planned on from day 1. I just felt somewhat freed from having a budget when it was no longer a constant concern in the back of your mind when going through daily life. I guess it was pretty terribly phrased, though, so fair enough!
 
circulus vitios said:
Unless you are starting your own practice or are working for some third world dump of a physician group, YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO PAY YOUR OWN MALPRACTICE INSURANCE. I don't know why SDN keeps thinking that physicians have to pay for their own malpractice.

20% taxes is hilarious, too. Try 40-45%.
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Is the concept of marginal rates vs. total effective rates never taught anywhere? Ever?

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/doctors-dont-pay-50-of-their-income-in-taxes/

If you save for retirement, pay student loan interest, pay a mortgage interest, pay state and local taxes, you're looking at taxes from all jurisdictions totaling to 30%, realistically lower than that.
 
If you're only 18 and you want to be a physician then please make money your last concern. Really. Just get A's not B's and you'll be just fine.

Don't even think about getting a new car or leasing a cool "Subaru STI" or anything ridiculous like that. Be more worried about even being considered to attend a medical school. Plan on living on a meager income for the next several years. Don't date a high maintenance women either.
 
tigers2007 said:
If you're only 18 and you want to be a physician then please make money your last concern. Really. Just get A's not B's and you'll be just fine.

Don't even think about getting a new car or leasing a cool "Subaru STI" or anything ridiculous like that. Be more worried about even being considered to attend a medical school. Plan on living on a meager income for the next several years. Don't date a high maintenance women either.
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I am a straight female and have a bf :) But I live with my parents though bcuz they pay for undergrad.
 
yehhhboiii said:
i dont think we can make that determination without actually being there
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What I mean is $40-45k/year isn't a starvation income. Yeah, COL varies and I'll have loans (presumably in deferment), but I'll be able to eat, have decent shelter, etc. I'm frugal and financially responsible, so I don't expect to be stressed based on my income alone. I'll probably be stressed due to the work (and maybe by the pay vs. work ratio lol) but that's different.
 
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gettheleadout said:
What I mean is $40-45k/year isn't a starvation income. Yeah, COL varies and I'll have loans (presumably in deferment), but I'll be able to eat, have decent shelter, etc. I'm frugal and financially responsible, so I don't expect to be stressed based on my income alone. I'll probably be stressed due to the work (and maybe by the pay vs. work ratio lol) but that's different.
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hope you don't end up in nyc or boston for residency
 
gettheleadout said:
What I mean is $40-45k/year isn't a starvation income. Yeah, COL varies and I'll have loans (presumably in deferment), but I'll be able to eat, have decent shelter, etc. I'm frugal and financially responsible, so I don't expect to be stressed based on my income alone. I'll probably be stressed due to the work (and maybe by the pay vs. work ratio lol) but that's different.
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All the thumbs up, my good sir.
Maybe being debt-free isn't worth it to most people. I can't imagine being willing to pay hundreds of thousands in extra loans just to get a fancy car a few years earlier (I actually don't want one ever, but that's a separate point). I don't plan to ever own a house or buy a non-used car. I highly doubt that I'll have a significant other at that point (I know I won't have an unemployed one), and therefore almost certainly no kids. You don't have to live in a low COL for $45k to work out for you...it'll go farther in some places, sure, but it's above starvation level pretty much everywhere.
 
sazerac said:
In theory, a medical graduate could do a three year residency, and then "live like a resident" for another two years while an attending, and make huge loan payments. Is this really possible? Of course it is. Graduates do five year residencies all the time, or do a two year fellowship.
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I've had numerous people on SDN tell me that it "doesn't work that way."

INCOME GOES UP 500% AFTER I GRADUATE FROM RESIDENCY?
BETTER SCALE MY LIVING EXPENSES 500%.
 
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sazerac said:
In theory, a medical graduate could do a three year residency, and then "live like a resident" for another two years while an attending, and make huge loan payments. Is this really possible? Of course it is. Graduates do five year residencies all the time, or do a two year fellowship.

In reality, doctors are financially ******ed and live paycheck to paycheck. If their income goes up by $150,000 then so do their expenses. Instantly. It's just the nature of the profession.

There was a funny thread here a few years ago where payroll had a snafu and was going to be two days late. Doctors called payroll frantically because all these mortgages and boat payments and car payments and private school tuition payments were going to bounce. Doctors making $30,000 a month had so little float they were going to be insolvent on account of their paycheck showing up on a monday instead of the previous friday. It was unreal.
Click to expand...

OP if you are so worried about debt just sign up for the Army, Navy, or Airforce. They are always trying to get me to buy into the "there is no way you want to be paying off that much debt" montra.
On a more serious note worry about getting into med school first, do your very best and then worry about financing your education. Med school admissions are stressful enough without stressing about these other things. There is a way, its not difficult and there is plenty of help out there.
 
mehc012 said:
All the thumbs up, my good sir.
Maybe being debt-free isn't worth it to most people. I can't imagine being willing to pay hundreds of thousands in extra loans just to get a fancy car a few years earlier (I actually don't want one ever, but that's a separate point). I don't plan to ever own a house or buy a non-used car. I highly doubt that I'll have a significant other at that point (I know I won't have an unemployed one), and therefore almost certainly no kids. You don't have to live in a low COL for $45k to work out for you...it'll go farther in some places, sure, but it's above starvation level pretty much everywhere.
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My wife and I live in Utah (not the most expensive place to live, but not real cheap either) we have two kids ages 2.5 and 9 months and we have lived just fine on ~$18,000 the past three years. It has certainly not been easy, but I am looking forward to "struggling" on $45,000 a year!
 
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sterlingh87 said:
My wife and I live in Utah (not the most expensive place to live, but not real cheap either) we have two kids ages 2.5 and 9 months and we have lived just fine on ~$18,000 the past three years. It has certainly not been easy, but I am looking forward to "struggling" on $45,000 a year!
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I would say that's pretty cheap... I wouldn't even be able to pay rent where I live for $18,000/year.
 
sterlingh87 said:
My wife and I live in Utah (not the most expensive place to live, but not real cheap either) we have two kids ages 2.5 and 9 months and we have lived just fine on ~$18,000 the past three years. It has certainly not been easy, but I am looking forward to "struggling" on $45,000 a year!
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Exactly!
 
i dont think you guys get it
for you these are just numbers
when you're working your ass off for "80" hours a week, seeing hundreds of noncompliant patients and spending all your time filling out bs on crappy emr systems while trying to get the stubborn service upstairs to admit your patient with no time to see your wife or kids, you may be singing a different tune
 
terp720 said:
I would say that's pretty cheap... I wouldn't even be able to pay rent where I live for $18,000/year.
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Well thats my point exactly. We find ways to bring down our expenses. We are living in a very nice area in a townhome, the place usually rents for 850 and you pay utilities, but we were approached by a lady a year ago when we were living in a dumpy place paying 500 a month. She said she thought we would be good renters (my wife and I are very active in our church this is where this lady approached us) and offered her place for 500 a month with utilities. We were VERY excited and work hard everyday to take good care of the place we live in. We could easily find a place to live in that would be 1,000-1,500 a month, but we dont. We just need a place to sleep and call home. Second my wife is a big home cooker and makes large meals with really cheap foodstuffs like real flower to make bread and rice, cheap things like that. We hardly EVER go out to eat. We dont have cable, just netflix at $8 a month, we use the library and hike for entertainment. We dont have a data plan on our phones, and only I have an iPhone for the calender and wifi access. We bought two cars after month and months of looking for good deals. Our car payments are 155 a month and 182 a month. There are always ways to cut expenses. In fact we have recently been thinking we need to cut down even more to save money for our move to med school so it will get even more tight. Obviously there are more expensive places to live, if we move to FL like we think we will we cant find a place to rent under 1,500 so we will have to make adjustments. My point is if we can make it on 18,000 now no matter where we live in residency 45,000 is doable
 
sterlingh87 said:
Well thats my point exactly. We find ways to bring down our expenses. We are living in a very nice area in a townhome, the place usually rents for 850 and you pay utilities, but we were approached by a lady a year ago when we were living in a dumpy place paying 500 a month. She said she thought we would be good renters (my wife and I are very active in our church this is where this lady approached us) and offered her place for 500 a month with utilities. We were VERY excited and work hard everyday to take good care of the place we live in. We could easily find a place to live in that would be 1,000-1,500 a month, but we dont. We just need a place to sleep and call home. Second my wife is a big home cooker and makes large meals with really cheap foodstuffs like real flower to make bread and rice, cheap things like that. We hardly EVER go out to eat. We dont have cable, just netflix at $8 a month, we use the library and hike for entertainment. We dont have a data plan on our phones, and only I have an iPhone for the calender and wifi access. We bought two cars after month and months of looking for good deals. Our car payments are 155 a month and 182 a month. There are always ways to cut expenses. In fact we have recently been thinking we need to cut down even more to save money for our move to med school so it will get even more tight. Obviously there are more expensive places to live, if we move to FL like we think we will we cant find a place to rent under 1,500 so we will have to make adjustments. My point is if we can make it on 18,000 now no matter where we live in residency 45,000 is doable
Click to expand...
 
sterlingh87 said:
Well thats my point exactly. We find ways to bring down our expenses. We are living in a very nice area in a townhome, the place usually rents for 850 and you pay utilities, but we were approached by a lady a year ago when we were living in a dumpy place paying 500 a month. She said she thought we would be good renters (my wife and I are very active in our church this is where this lady approached us) and offered her place for 500 a month with utilities. We were VERY excited and work hard everyday to take good care of the place we live in. We could easily find a place to live in that would be 1,000-1,500 a month, but we dont. We just need a place to sleep and call home. Second my wife is a big home cooker and makes large meals with really cheap foodstuffs like real flower to make bread and rice, cheap things like that. We hardly EVER go out to eat. We dont have cable, just netflix at $8 a month, we use the library and hike for entertainment. We dont have a data plan on our phones, and only I have an iPhone for the calender and wifi access. We bought two cars after month and months of looking for good deals. Our car payments are 155 a month and 182 a month. There are always ways to cut expenses. In fact we have recently been thinking we need to cut down even more to save money for our move to med school so it will get even more tight. Obviously there are more expensive places to live, if we move to FL like we think we will we cant find a place to rent under 1,500 so we will have to make adjustments. My point is if we can make it on 18,000 now no matter where we live in residency 45,000 is doable
Click to expand...

Okay are you saying 18,000/year after taxes and expenses? I'm just going to assume no taxes. 18K/year works out to $1500/month. Subtracting out all the expenses you listed (plus a very conservative estimate of $50 for your monthly phone bill), that leaves you at $605/month after rent, phone, car notes, and netflix. That comes out to $151.25/week. According to the US Dept of Agriculture, the minimum cost of feeding a family of 4 a healthy diet is $146/week (published in May of this year).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/01/grocery-costs-for-family/2104165/

This means you have just $5.25 left each week to pay for everything else. We haven't even considered any of the following: bath & grooming supplies, cleaning supplies for the house, car maintenance, car insurance, doctor visits & checkups for the youngsters, daycare costs, clothing, and probably a zillion other things it's important to provide for a young family. Presumably you are also debt-free. Am I missing something here??? Are you receiving federal or state aid of some kind that is helping bridge the yawning gap I have identified? Or were you deducting these costs prior to the $18,000/year total? Either way, your initial post is extremely confusing and I would appreciate it if you could clarify.

ETA: and where are interview expenses fitting into that $5.25 weekly budget??
 
yehhhboiii said:
i dont think you guys get it
for you these are just numbers
when you're working your ass off for "80" hours a week, seeing hundreds of noncompliant patients and spending all your time filling out bs on crappy emr systems while trying to get the stubborn service upstairs to admit your patient with no time to see your wife or kids, you may be singing a different tune
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I have worked a full time job at everything from CNA work (wiping butts, restraining combative psychotic people, and getting vommited on) for three years, a dead end grocery store job with druggies who come to work plastered, all of this while taking fulltime classes not just in the prereqs but in extra classes like Cell Bio, Biochem, and taking the MCAT. When my second was born he had RSV and was in the hospital for a week during classes. This was during a semester where I was starting research that I organized and had to constantly bug my professors to help out with, while taking a service trip to San Fran to get enough service hours to make me competitive. I am not saying I know all the work it will be in residency, but trust me I know what it's like to not see my family. I look forward to the day when all I have to worry about is concerned with medicine and one job. Right now I feel spread very thin between full time work, full time classes, part time research and service activities, and balancing this with raising two kids. To have all my ducks in one place sounds to me like heaven.
 

Don't underestimate the taste of roses and violets in your dinner!!
 
BlueLabel said:
Okay are you saying 18,000/year after taxes and expenses? I'm just going to assume no taxes. 18K/year works out to $1500/month. Subtracting out all the expenses you listed (plus a very conservative estimate of $50 for your monthly phone bill), that leaves you at $605/month after rent, phone, car notes, and netflix. That comes out to $151.25/week. According to the US Dept of Agriculture, the minimum cost of feeding a family of 4 a healthy diet is $146/week (published in May of this year).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/01/grocery-costs-for-family/2104165/

This means you have just $5.25 left each week to pay for everything else. We haven't even considered any of the following: bath & grooming supplies, cleaning supplies for the house, car maintenance, car insurance, doctor visits & checkups for the youngsters, daycare costs, clothing, and probably a zillion other things it's important to provide for a young family. Presumably you are also debt-free. Am I missing something here??? Are you receiving federal or state aid of some kind that is helping bridge the yawning gap I have identified? Or were you deducting these costs prior to the $18,000/year total? Either way, your initial post is extremely confusing and I would appreciate it if you could clarify.

ETA: and where are interview expenses fitting into that $5.25 weekly budget??
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You are forgetting about WIC and foodstamps. Obviously you have never had kids. We do have student loans 18500 to be exact just for paying tuition though.
 
Also, maybe the rent is 300-400 dollars? Might not make a huge difference, but location can make an impact on rent!

Edit: Saw you added 605 with other stuff..

Maybe they aren't feeding them a healthy diet lol. Or not a family of 4!

Idk *shrug*
 
sterlingh87 said:
You are forgetting about WIC and foodstamps. Obviously you have never had kids. We do have student loans 18500 to be exact just for paying tuition though.
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It is EXTREMELY disingenuous to receive aid and then say "we're making it just fine on our $18000/year". Like I see nothing wrong with using federal aid if you need it, it exists for a reason. But you need to put everything on the table if you're going to frankly discuss your finances. People could easily be misled by your posts.
 
KnuxNole said:
Don't underestimate the taste of roses and violets in your dinner!!
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My bad. I never attended school till 7th grade. Sometimes my spelling is somewhat lacking, my wife gets after me all the time for it.
 
yehhhboiii said:
i dont think you guys get it
for you these are just numbers
when you're working your ass off for "80" hours a week, seeing hundreds of noncompliant patients and spending all your time filling out bs on crappy emr systems while trying to get the stubborn service upstairs to admit your patient with no time to see your wife or kids, you may be singing a different tune
Click to expand...
That's such a weak justification. "Everyone else does it, so it must be right." Thanks for the insightful post on post-residency life, MEDICAL STUDENT.
 
BlueLabel said:
It is EXTREMELY disingenuous to receive aid and then say "we're making it just fine on our $18000/year". Like I see nothing wrong with using federal aid if you need it, it exists for a reason. But you need to put everything on the table if you're going to frankly discuss your finances. People could easily be misled by your posts.
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Fair enough, I just dont consider it "income" thats the only reason I left it out.
 
sterlingh87 said:
Fair enough, I just dont consider it "income" thats the only reason I left it out.
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No worries, now that we're on the level it all makes sense. Still it must be very difficult to make ends meet. I hope things work out well for you and your family.
 
KnuxNole said:
Also, maybe the rent is 300-400 dollars? Might not make a huge difference, but location can make an impact on rent!

Edit: Saw you added 605 with other stuff..

Maybe they aren't feeding them a healthy diet lol. Or not a family of 4!

Idk *shrug*
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It's probably my fault for bringing up my family in a public forum, but please dont make comments about my family that are critical of how they are treated. My kids are everything to me, of course we take good care of them and ensure they are fed a healthy diet.
 
KnuxNole said:
Also, maybe the rent is 300-400 dollars? Might not make a huge difference, but location can make an impact on rent!

Edit: Saw you added 605 with other stuff..

Maybe they aren't feeding them a healthy diet lol. Or not a family of 4!

Idk *shrug*
Click to expand...

If you read his first post he mentioned he has two young children. Anyway we've figured it out and moved on at this point.
 
BlueLabel said:
No worries, now that we're on the level it all makes sense. Still it must be very difficult to make ends meet. I hope things work out well for you and your family.
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Thank you, I appreciate that. I didnt mean to insinuate that people are rampant complainers, I just think a lot of people dont know what it's really like to struggle to get by, myself included. I think all of us are excited for the day we are done living like students, I know I am, but in the meantime we will make it and it's definitely going to be worth it.
 
sterlingh87 said:
OP if you are so worried about debt just sign up for the Army, Navy, or Airforce. They are always trying to get me to buy into the "there is no way you want to be paying off that much debt" montra.
On a more serious note worry about getting into med school first, do your very best and then worry about financing your education. Med school admissions are stressful enough without stressing about these other things. There is a way, its not difficult and there is plenty of help out there.
Click to expand...
I want to be a dermatologist, and army/navy/airforce takes doctors who are family practice docs, and also those who specialize in injury medicine or something. Something where they go abroad to iraq to cure injuries of soliders. NOT something I wanna do :p I want to be a dermatologist and deal with teenagers' zits. Plus easy lifestyle+great pay. I wanna have kids too, maybe during residency or after, but at age 30 I'm starting no matter what. Don't wanna be infertile later on and end up hating my life :)
 
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