These articles are the worst

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Of course these side effects exist. That isn't my point at all. I've read the labels, and a few studies as well. My point is that this person is taking anecdotal evidence and suggesting that EVERYONE apply it to their situation. And by the way @B_52, I'm curious why you think it is appropriate to encourage the masses to use anecdotal, emotional evidence. This train of thought isn't so far off from what the anti-vaxxers promote every day.

I don't encourage it. Just accept it as reality and know that to convince people to do things that are good for them requires the same approach. Unless you think just reciting statistical tests to someone about lung cancer and smoking is a good intervention for someone.


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Will is exactly what I meant. It damages the cells in all of the samples they tested. You can read that here Fluoroquinolones cause changes in extracellular matrix, signalling proteins, metalloproteinases and caspase-3 in cultured human tendon cells. - PubMed - NCBI . Each person's threshold is different. Some people notice the damage after 1 pill and some don't notice the damage after 25 courses.
Did you actually read the study?
Are you intentionally ignoring the range of concentrations they tested on purpose?

Furthermore, there's nothing really clinically useful in that article that anyone could use to make a decision.

At best, I'd expect to see a journal club where the student writes,

"This indicates the need for further studies regarding..."
 
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First thank you for coming here to respond to us in person. You're defending your point respectfully and that's something we could use more of around here.


The major issue I have with your article is that most of the people who read it aren't scientists. They don't walk away from it thinking

"I am not even advocating for taking these antibiotics off the market, only that they be prescribed as a last resort like the FDA warning indicates"

As you said, instead they think "all antibiotics are bad and should never be used, and I shouldn't trust any doctor who prescribes them".

My mom was this way. She sends me a post a week, including yours a while back. When we were kids she didn't vaccinate us and my little brother nearly died. We both grew up having months long sinus infections that she refused to treat with simple antibiotics. I have ulcerative colitis and she withheld treatment from me until I was 18 and I went out and got the drugs on my own. Her answer was to take herbs she read about on line.

I don't doubt that you had an aweful experience with this drug. But the way you write your article causes major distrust in the lay public about huge swaths of the healthcare system. One person may read your article and not take an FQ, and save themselves from an adverse reaction. But there are many more who will withhold treatment from their kids, elders, etc. who could die as a result. Thanks again for reading,

Knife
I am sorry you had to deal with that type of mindset in your family. I was fortunate to grow up with a Dad who has been a nurse for over 35 years. He works with many doctors and his knowledge has always been helpful to me. I can't control how each person responds to my story. I hope they will take the time to actually let my words sink i and respond to the information in a level headed manner. I am not anti vaccinations, my kids have all of theirs. I'm not anti medicine, I have a great primary care doc and a few excellent surgeons. I still take antibiotics when needed, just not Fluoroquinolones. I'm not aiming at causing distrust, I'm aiming at educating. Thank you for taking your time to respectfully respond.
 
I am sorry you had to deal with that type of mindset in your family. I was fortunate to grow up with a Dad who has been a nurse for over 35 years. He works with many doctors and his knowledge has always been helpful to me. I can't control how each person responds to my story. I hope they will take the time to actually let my words sink i and respond to the information in a level headed manner. I am not anti vaccinations, my kids have all of theirs. I'm not anti medicine, I have a great primary care doc and a few excellent surgeons. I still take antibiotics when needed, just not Fluoroquinolones. I'm not aiming at causing distrust, I'm aiming at educating. Thank you for taking your time to respectfully respond.
While you can't control how the general public responds, you can analyze who is responding and how, and maybe reflect on the tone and style of your presentation.
The results may not necessarily reflect the intent you had, but they are the results of your story nonetheless.
 
While you can't control how the general public responds, you can analyze who is responding and how, and maybe reflect on the tone and style of your presentation.
The results may not necessarily reflect the intent you had, but they are the results of your story nonetheless.
I realize the emotional result for some on this forum is negative. It has served me quite well in other arenas though. For instance this radio interview that aired today, that was hosted with Dr. Alfred Bonati. Stream American Medicine Today 5-6-17 Free | 970 WFLA The podcast version dated 5/6/17 is me. Not every medical professional has reacted in a negative way. In fact, this was an overwhelmingly positive result. I have shared my personal story. I have stated my cause. I have admitted I am imperfect. From where I stand, I am okay with the approach. I welcome research that can help us understand these side effects better, but I am not a scientist and I won't write like one, or even a doctor for that matter. I am a patient, a woman warning others of a danger, and a "mommy blogger." I am doing what I can with the knowledge and experience I have.
 
I realize the emotional result for some on this forum is negative. It has served me quite well in other arenas though. For instance this radio interview that aired today, that was hosted with Dr. Alfred Bonati. Stream American Medicine Today 5-6-17 Free | 970 WFLA The podcast version dated 5/6/17 is me. Not every medical professional has reacted in a negative way. In fact, this was an overwhelmingly positive result. I have shared my personal story. I have stated my cause. I have admitted I am imperfect. From where I stand, I am okay with the approach. I welcome research that can help us understand these side effects better, but I am not a scientist and I won't write like one, or even a doctor for that matter. I am a patient, a woman warning others of a danger, and a "mommy blogger." I am doing what I can with the knowledge and experience I have.

So basically because you're not a scientist or a physician, you're okay with scaring people by making it seem like what happened to you happens to most? That's pretty dishonest. While I feel for you, if you are really trying to just make people aware of what could happen if given one family of abx, there is a much more balanced and honest way to do it, as has been pointed out above.
 
So basically because you're not a scientist or a physician, you're okay with scaring people by making it seem like what happened to you happens to most? That's pretty dishonest. While I feel for you, if you are really trying to just make people aware of what could happen if given one family of abx, there is a much more balanced and honest way to do it, as has been pointed out above.
What exactly is imbalanced? There are warning after warning after warning including the FDA's and for some reason, this is imbalanced? I don't know what you mean. If roughly only 10% of side effects are reported to the FDA per year as sited here A Closer Look at FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System – PSQH and this ABC investigation sites "our investigation obtained an FDA database of adverse effects and found 3,000 deaths and 200,000 complaints of serious effects associated with Levaquin and similar drugs." sited here Levaquin: FDA fails to disclose additional serious side effects of antibiotic linked to deaths . Do some multiplication. Thats more near 30,000 deaths and 2 million complaints of serious side effects. That doesn't seem quite so rare does it. There is absolutely nothing dishonest about what I am saying. I have been clear from the get go that my goal is to inform patients that they can ask for an alternative, and inform doctors about the updated FDA warning. Whether the doctors here like it or not, they are the ones set up to take the fall if their patient is injured. If one of your patients some day gets what you call the "rare" side effects that handicap them for life, it's not the FDA and the drug company taking the fall here, it's you. The warning was out there and if you prescribed it not as a last resort, you are liable. Like it or not, this is the reality. The FDA warning is out there. Are you guys going to heed it or not? As a patient, I am.
 
What exactly is imbalanced? There are warning after warning after warning including the FDA's and for some reason, this is imbalanced? I don't know what you mean. If roughly only 10% of side effects are reported to the FDA per year as sited here A Closer Look at FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System – PSQH and this ABC investigation sites "our investigation obtained an FDA database of adverse effects and found 3,000 deaths and 200,000 complaints of serious effects associated with Levaquin and similar drugs." sited here Levaquin: FDA fails to disclose additional serious side effects of antibiotic linked to deaths . Do some multiplication. Thats more near 30,000 deaths and 2 million complaints of serious side effects. That doesn't seem quite so rare does it. There is absolutely nothing dishonest about what I am saying. I have been clear from the get go that my goal is to inform patients that they can ask for an alternative, and inform doctors about the updated FDA warning. Whether the doctors here like it or not, they are the ones set up to take the fall if their patient is injured. If one of your patients some day gets what you call the "rare" side effects that handicap them for life, it's not the FDA and the drug company taking the fall here, it's you. The warning was out there and if you prescribed it not as a last resort, you are liable. Like it or not, this is the reality. The FDA warning is out there. Are you guys going to heed it or not? As a patient, I am.
You need to learn what Number Needed to Harm is.
Seriously. Learn to calculate it, and then apply it to levofloxacin.

I think you are being intentionally misleading. You keep posting links to studies without actually understanding what they mean, because you know that other people who don't understand the studies will accept your analysis of "FQ will always damage cells!" with no understanding of what the study actually says about it.

Metformin can put someone into lactic acidosis .
Lisinopril can cause angioedema and, in combincation with other meds, destroy someone's kidneys.
Warfarin can literally cause someone to drown in their own blood.

All drugs have risk.
 
Levaquin a Fluoroquinolone Antibiotics contributed directly to my wife Karen's suicide.

For a YEAR she crawled around the house on a skateboard like thing so she could walk again.

Forever after taking Levaquin she had to wear braces on her ankles and wrists due to the chronic systemic tendentious.
The pain from this and Intracranial Hypotension due to Cerebrospinal Fluid (CSF) Leaks, became more than she could stand and she killed herself.
CSF Leaks are a condition that is more common that many think (for example Actor George Clooney had/has a CSF Leak and considered suicide), yet is so unknown that some doctors argue the condition does not even exist.

It is also my conjecture that this class of antibiotics are damaging the spinal Dura, what contains the spinal fluid, so that the treatments for her CSF Leaks did not work.
There is ZERO study on this FQ drug/Dura connection. I will be at the first ever Intracranial Hypotension Symposium this fall to discuss this with the worlds leading CSF Leak doctors.
To date 16 people have told me that their CSF Leak started within one week to one year of taking Cipro or Levaquin.

These antibiotics are meant for the LAST RESORT such as Plague and Anthrax. They are not meant to be given out like candy.
The FDA says they should NOT be used for uncomplicated UTIs, Bronchitis and Sinusitis , as they DO NOT WORK for those, as documented in the 617 page FDA report prepared for the November 5th 2015 hearing on Fluorquinolone Antibiotics. "Karen's Journal" was part of the evidence at the hearing that day.

"Karen's Journal", that is now required reading in the Neurobiology Curriculum at Duke School of Medicine, documents in the first person the devastation of these drugs.

Part of the problem is that the reaction to them is typically delayed by six months, so people do not make the connection to the antibiotic they took months ago for their now devastated health.

Cipro is a fourth generation Fluorquinolone and Levaquin fifth generation. Generations one to three have already been removed from the market. As I hope happens to these.

The FDA has said they have killed 3,000 and injured 200,000 and that is estimated to be only one percent of the actually numbers because the FDA Adverse Advent Reporting system is so bad.

Links to the FDA hearings, 617 page report and a lot of other information that I am continuing to gather at Karen's web site: kpaddock dot com /fq .

Please do not harm someone be using these drugs.
 
FDA updates warnings for fluoroquinolone antibiotics Limits use for acute bacterial sinusitis, acute bacterial exacerbation of chronic bronchitis and uncomplicated urinary tract infections
For Immediate Release July 26, 2016

Release: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today approved safety labeling changes for a class of antibiotics, called fluoroquinolones, to enhance warnings about their association with disabling and potentially permanent side effects and to limit their use in patients with less serious bacterial infections.

“Fluoroquinolones have risks and benefits that should be considered very carefully,” said Edward Cox, M.D., director of the Office of Antimicrobial Products in the FDA’s Center for Drug Evaluation and Research. “It’s important that both health care providers and patients are aware of both the risks and benefits of fluoroquinolones and make an informed decision about their use.”

Fluoroquinolones are antibiotics that kill or stop the growth of bacteria. While these drugs are effective in treating serious bacterial infections, an FDA safety review found that both oral and injectable fluroquinolones are associated with disabling side effects involving tendons, muscles, joints, nerves and the central nervous system. These side effects can occur hours to weeks after exposure to fluoroquinolones and may potentially be permanent.

Because the risk of these serious side effects generally outweighs the benefits for patients with acute bacterial sinusitis, acute exacerbation of chronic bronchitis and uncomplicated urinary tract infections, the FDA has determined that fluoroquinolones should be reserved for use in patients with these conditions who have no alternative treatment options. For some serious bacterial infections, including anthrax, plague and bacterial pneumonia among others, the benefits of fluoroquinolones outweigh the risks and it is appropriate for them to remain available as a therapeutic option.

FDA-approved fluoroquinolones include levofloxacin (Levaquin), ciprofloxacin (Cipro), ciprofloxacin extended-release tablets, moxifloxacin (Avelox), ofloxacin and gemifloxacin (Factive). The labeling changes include an updated Boxed Warning and revisions to the Warnings and Precautions section of the label about the risk of disabling and potentially irreversible adverse reactions that can occur together. The label also contains new limitation-of-use statements to reserve fluoroquinolones for patients who do not have other available treatment options for acute bacterial sinusitis, acute bacterial exacerbation of chronic bronchitis and uncomplicated urinary tract infections. The patient Medication Guide that is required to be given to the patient with each fluoroquinolone prescription describes the safety issues associated with these medicines.

The FDA first added a Boxed Warning to fluoroquinolones in July 2008 for the increased risk of tendinitis and tendon rupture. In February 2011, the risk of worsening symptoms for those with myasthenia gravis was added to the Boxed Warning. In August 2013, the agency required updates to the labels to describe the potential for irreversible peripheral neuropathy (serious nerve damage).

In November 2015, an FDA Advisory Committee discussed the risks and benefits of fluoroquinolones for the treatment of acute bacterial sinusitis, acute bacterial exacerbation of chronic bronchitis and uncomplicated urinary tract infections based on new safety information. The new information focused on two or more side effects occurring at the same time and causing the potential for irreversible impairment. The advisory committee concluded that the serious risks associated with the use of fluoroquinolones for these types of uncomplicated infections generally outweighed the benefits for patients with other treatment options.

Today’s action also follows a May 12, 2016, drug safety communication advising that fluoroquinolones should be reserved for these conditions only when there are no other options available due to potentially permanent, disabling side effects occurring together. The drug safety communication also announced the required labeling updates to reflect this new safety information.

The FDA, an agency within the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, protects the public health by assuring the safety, effectiveness, security of human and veterinary drugs, vaccines and other biological products for human use, and medical devices. The agency is also responsible for the safety and security of our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, dietary supplements, products that give off electronic radiation, and for regulating tobacco products.

### – www DOT fda DOT gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm513183.htm
 
You need to learn what Number Needed to Harm is.
Seriously. Learn to calculate it, and then apply it to levofloxacin.

I think you are being intentionally misleading. You keep posting links to studies without actually understanding what they mean, because you know that other people who don't understand the studies will accept your analysis of "FQ will always damage cells!" with no understanding of what the study actually says about it.

Metformin can put someone into lactic acidosis .
Lisinopril can cause angioedema and, in combincation with other meds, destroy someone's kidneys.
Warfarin can literally cause someone to drown in their own blood.

All drugs have risk.
You are entitled to your opinion. It's not up to me to convince you otherwise. I'm not intentionally misleading anyone. I have talked to my doctors and so far I haven't really been off base. My ability to reiterate it can always improve, but there is plenty of science behind the damage these cause. There is also something to be said for the fact that you can take these antibiotics and not know if you will come out on the other side still able to function, or if your entire body will crumble and you will live as a cripple for the rest of your life. The risk is so incredibly severe and when you take these medications you really are stepping off a ledge into the dark, not knowing whether the ground is a few inches down or a cliff into an abyss of physical breakdown. I have already posted links that you can review if you'd like on my blog post. If you still feel like it's blown out of proportion after reading them, and you still feel they are safe enough antibiotics to prescribe to your Mom, Sister, Brother, Father...then I suppose you we will just have to agree to disagree. I've even refused them for my dog from a veterinarian.
 
... CBS did a story that states "FDA database of adverse effects and found 3,000 deaths and 200,000 complaints of serious effects associated with Levaquin and similar drugs." That story is here Levaquin: FDA fails to disclose additional serious side effects of antibiotic linked to deaths . ...

I am the last person being interviewed in that CBS segment about my wife's suicide in large part due to Levaquin.

Anyone care to tell me these antibiotics are safe after watching it? They need removed from the market or put in the FDA RTMS to significantly restrict their use to be the antibiotic of last resort for things like Plague and Anthrax.

I can point you to many studies that say they are not safe, such as the FDA's own 617 page report that they prepared for the November 5th 2015 hearing on the drugs. My wife's journal was part of the evidence for that hearing. A reporter wrote this after reading "Karen's Journal": "Karen's first-hand account of her illness gave an honest, heart-wrenching depiction of what it is like to live with debilitating pain day-to-day." in large part due to Levaquin.

In some of the other threads here the package insert is mentioned. That is a summary document for Levaquin of the actually 67 page long document, 10 pages of which are warnings.
The document for Cipro is 55 pages long.
 
I've seen a few studies that show fluoroquinolones cause damage at all clinically relevant "therapeutic" levels. Their topoisomerase binding method of action also happens in humans, both in eukaryotes and mitochondria. And the fluorine moiety allows them to penetrate lipid membranes ("hard to reach" infections). In a way these antibiotics are designed to destroy human cells. I don't think mtDNA depletion was discovered until long after the launch of fluoroquinolones.

The real question, I think, is why don't these drugs affect certain people? Things like sun exposure, exercise during a fluoroquinolone course, magnesium levels, oxidative stress levels, are not well understood but probably implicated risk factors. The other question is why aren't some people who are damaged symptomatic?

I think the history is important to consider too when trying to analyze the true risk of these drugs. The first fluoroquinolones were released in the 70s(?) but the FDA didn't put neuropathy on the black box warning until 2013. Who would suspect their permanent neuropathy was caused by an antibiotic? I don't even think the first scientific publication of a tendon rupture was until 83(?). We know commonly available medicine and knowledge lags far behind the truth, and there's a delay for all drugs between conception and launch, and between side effect knowledge and public understanding. I think fluoroquinolones are probably on the worse end of this spectrum.

If you don't want to trust a mommy blogger, both the FDA and manufacturer of Cipro (Bayer) have said don't give these drugs out as a first line of defence, because the risks are too high. Doctors don't know nor care about this warning and cause patients more harm than necessary.

I for one am happy to hear this blog is raising awareness! I know it's made a few doctors seek out more information on the subject because of its sheer popularity.
 
Amy got called out for practicing Semi-Science Filibustering and then called in the cavalry.
Is that the best you've got? You are upset other people are seeing this thread? I want to say something because some day this thread is going to keep ringing in your ears. Some day, this will be common knowledge to all. Some day you will remember this, and I'm glad I am at least making an impression here. It may be a negative impression on your mind, but this will end up being a very positive thing for patients health and the doctors well being as well. Less patients hurt, mean less malpractice suits. The only regret I have, is that either you or someone you know are going to have to come close enough to this to learn the hard way. That actually makes me sad. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Not even someone who refuses to heed a warning to a medication that the very drug company and FDA highly warn of.
 
I've seen a few studies that show fluoroquinolones cause damage at all clinically relevant "therapeutic" levels. Their topoisomerase binding method of action also happens in humans, both in eukaryotes and mitochondria. And the fluorine moiety allows them to penetrate lipid membranes ("hard to reach" infections). In a way these antibiotics are designed to destroy human cells. I don't think mtDNA depletion was discovered until long after the launch of fluoroquinolones.

The real question, I think, is why don't these drugs affect certain people? Things like sun exposure, exercise during a fluoroquinolone course, magnesium levels, oxidative stress levels, are not well understood but probably implicated risk factors. The other question is why aren't some people who are damaged symptomatic?

I think the history is important to consider too when trying to analyze the true risk of these drugs. The first fluoroquinolones were released in the 70s(?) but the FDA didn't put neuropathy on the black box warning until 2013. Who would suspect their permanent neuropathy was caused by an antibiotic? I don't even think the first scientific publication of a tendon rupture was until 83(?). We know commonly available medicine and knowledge lags far behind the truth, and there's a delay for all drugs between conception and launch, and between side effect knowledge and public understanding. I think fluoroquinolones are probably on the worse end of this spectrum.

If you don't want to trust a mommy blogger, both the FDA and manufacturer of Cipro (Bayer) have said don't give these drugs out as a first line of defence, because the risks are too high. Doctors don't know nor care about this warning and cause patients more harm than necessary.

I for one am happy to hear this blog is raising awareness! I know it's made a few doctors seek out more information on the subject because of its sheer popularity.
Thank you for putting this into better verbiage. I appreciate your input very much.
 
Is that the best you've got? You are upset other people are seeing this thread? I want to say something because some day this thread is going to keep ringing in your ears. Some day, this will be common knowledge to all. Some day you will remember this, and I'm glad I am at least making an impression here. It may be a negative impression on your mind, but this will end up being a very positive thing for patients health and the doctors well being as well. Less patients hurt, mean less malpractice suits. The only regret I have, is that either you or someone you know are going to have to come close enough to this to learn the hard way. That actually makes me sad. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Not even someone who refuses to heed a warning to a medication that the very drug company and FDA highly warn of.

Every medication has benefits and risks. Everything we do in medicine has benefits and risks. Even something as simple and routine as putting in an iv can cause vascular dissection and infection. We are well aware of the major side effects of the medications we prescribe. There are so many medications we use and change every day that it would be impossible to go through every single one with every single patient while still having time to do other aspects of our job. I'm sorry that you had a negative outcome but sometimes these things happen and it's impossible to predict who they will happen to. Parents still demand antibiotics for their kids with viral infections even when we tell them about the risks of SJS and anaphylaxis. At some point there's an acceptable level of risk that both physician and patient have to accept implicitly.

Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes we cause bad things to happen. We spend years studying and practicing to minimize these events to the best of our abilities.
 
Every medication has benefits and risks. Everything we do in medicine has benefits and risks. Even something as simple and routine as putting in an iv can cause vascular dissection and infection. We are well aware of the major side effects of the medications we prescribe. There are so many medications we use and change every day that it would be impossible to go through every single one with every single patient while still having time to do other aspects of our job. I'm sorry that you had a negative outcome but sometimes these things happen and it's impossible to predict who they will happen to. Parents still demand antibiotics for their kids with viral infections even when we tell them about the risks of SJS and anaphylaxis. At some point there's an acceptable level of risk that both physician and patient have to accept implicitly.

Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes we cause bad things to happen. We spend years studying and practicing to minimize these events to the best of our abilities.
I know that is true, which is why I have never said to take these off the market. I have always said that I am advocating just for them to be used as a last resort like the FDA guidelines recommend. Why is this unreasonable? I don't get it. Shouldn't doctors heed the warning the FDA has published? My goal has been to make people aware of what happened to me and warn them that this could be them, and it could be. There is absolutely nothing to guarantee it won't be. I know that all medications and treatments carry a risk. This one is just so big and happens to be the one I am affected by. We each feel strongly about certain subjects because they hit close to home. This one hit my home and I feel a responsibility to warn others so they can avoid this if at all possible. I also want to warn the doctors that this warning is now quite extensive and they need to keep it in mind when they are prescribing medication. Like the FDA say's "Health care professionals should not prescribe systemic fluoroquinolones to patients who have other treatment options for acute bacterial sinusitis (ABS), acute bacterial exacerbation of chronic bronchitis (ABECB), and uncomplicated urinary tract infections (UTI) because the risks outweigh the benefits in these patients." FDA Drug Safety Communication: FDA updates warnings for oral and injectable fluoroquinolone antibiotics due to disabling side effects . As a patient it really concerns me in the amount of defensiveness that a percentage of doctors have with this subject. Warning you guys is for your protection as well. I really like my doctors and surgeons. I believe that most healthcare professionals are in this profession to help and not harm. I hate that the reality is that when something goes wrong with a patient, and this warning is out there, you guys are the ones liable because they published these warnings. If it's not used as the last resort, you guys will take the fall. Its not an unreasonable request to ask the public to make themselves aware of the risks associated with this family of antibiotic and it's not unreasonable to ask doctors to prescribe them as recommended by the FDA.
 
Is that the best you've got? You are upset other people are seeing this thread? I want to say something because some day this thread is going to keep ringing in your ears. Some day, this will be common knowledge to all. Some day you will remember this, and I'm glad I am at least making an impression here. It may be a negative impression on your mind, but this will end up being a very positive thing for patients health and the doctors well being as well. Less patients hurt, mean less malpractice suits. The only regret I have, is that either you or someone you know are going to have to come close enough to this to learn the hard way. That actually makes me sad. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Not even someone who refuses to heed a warning to a medication that the very drug company and FDA highly warn of.
Is that the best you've got? You are upset other people are seeing this thread? I want to say something because some day this thread is going to keep ringing in your ears. Some day, this will be common knowledge to all. Some day you will remember this, and I'm glad I am at least making an impression here. It may be a negative impression on your mind, but this will end up being a very positive thing for patients health and the doctors well being as well. Less patients hurt, mean less malpractice suits. The only regret I have, is that either you or someone you know are going to have to come close enough to this to learn the hard way. That actually makes me sad. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Not even someone who refuses to heed a warning to a medication that the very drug company and FDA highly warn of.
You are incredibly misinformed.
What you're describing are called Phase IV trials. They've already happened for levaquin and cipro.
The number needed to harm, despite your virtue signaling and emotional pleas, is exponentially better than you're claiming.

I'll freely admit that I DO counsel every patient by telling them to monitor for tendon pain, and to discontinue the med immediately if they start getting tingling, neuropathy, or numbness anywhere.

That's all that's required.

Every medication has risks.
Serious risks.

Your emotional connection doesn't change the facts.
It's very telling that you ignore the parts of my posts where I call you out

This is how science works.
 
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Mostly because I understand the medications I use better than you or anyone at the fda. Quinolones have risks for sure but so do every other medication. I've used them plenty of times with zero negative outcomes.
 
Mostly because I understand the medications I use better than you or anyone at the fda. Quinolones have risks for sure but so do every other medication. I've used them plenty of times with zero negative outcomes.

Watch out or she'll link another meaningless study which shows cell damage at 1,000mg/L
 
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