Things I hate about psychology!

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Psyclops said:
Yeah, this isn't a big secret. I wish it weren't so adversarial.

The system is adversarial because clinicians have inherently different motives than HMOs. We make money by providing valued services to people in need; they make money by denying those services whenever possible so they can use the money to buy Indonesian junk bonds. Hey congress! Thanks for the insurance deregulation guys. It’s working out swell.

Seriously, there may be a few bad clinicians who are trying to take advantage of the system but insurance companies that will not pay for needed services represent a much larger problem. Insurance companies use the cost of health care to justify their approval procedures yet they remain one of the nation’s most profitable industries. If United Health Care can afford to pay their CEO 124 million dollars you’d think they could scrape together 8 sessions instead of 4 to treat Panic Disorder.

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The eveil is in the administration.
 
The semi-forensic eval request where 1 parent has been accused and you need to write a report saying they are fine, or not get paid, or end up in court. School psychologists, and school districts in general, who ask your opinion, make the parents pay for it and then dismiss it if they don't like it............
Do-gooder personalities who have no professional boundaries, and then give you shyt for not going along with it.

:cool:
 
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psych101 said:
When parents of children you are treating ask, "do you have kids?" -- if they find out you do not, then they believe you can't possibly understand them or help them. Yeah, guess those 10 years of school are useless in helping you figure out how to get your whining 3 year old to stop tantruming...

Or you could just burst into tears and tell them the tragedy of your infertility...

It probably won't be beneficial to anyone, but it's nearly guaranteed to shut them up...
 
Mine are:
people who hear I'm studying psychology as an undergrad and proceed to tell me all there problems. What does undergrad mean, again?

people who tried to coax me toward psychology while I was trying to be pre-med. I have Cerebral Palsy and people would say things like "pyschology would be much easier for you, it's almost the same thing".Since when is psychology the same as trauma surgery?! Yes I aim high. I changed programs because I hated chemistry and I became interested in DID; not because of my disability, thank you!

When people say that pyschology is the easiest major ever constructed.

The question," How can you be a Christian and study pyschology?"
" " so your going into pastoral counseling?
I want to work for a para-church organization like Link Care

When people act like Dr Phil is the ultimate authority in Pyschology because "what he says is common sense".
 
Dagny52 said:
I'm an MSW who is trying to get into the psychology profession and as much as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with you that generally this is all too true. I don't fit in well and butt heads with some of my clinical SW colleagues all the time about this, who don't seem to care about what the research says, current or otherwise and uncritically embrace all kinds of nonsense (but some clinical psychologists do that as well, I have to add). There are a few good people in the SW profession who are trying to change things and they have gotten together a Society for Social Work Research that is doing some good work, but it is an uphill battle all the way when it comes to getting most of these folks to value an evidence-based approach and engage in critical thinking. In the MSW program I went through, whether the therapies we studied had evidence to support them, rarely even came up. Fortunately some of my research professors were great and the school I went to was better at teaching research methodology than many MSW programs are and I became a research major but the clinical and research sections of the program were very separate. Many clin SWs I know are terrified of crunching numbers or even reading about them.

Are you applying to clinical psych programs?

I'm planning to apply to MSW programs to start in 2007 and I eventually want to earn a PhD in psych. I don't have an undergrad background in psych/research/publications and it's more beneficial to have an MSW than an MS/MA in Psych in the state I'm in and where I'm planning to go -- hence the round-about route to psychology. I definitely want to do research while I'm in graduate school (I do "believe" in research as opposed to the SWs you mentioned) but I wanted to know if you have any other suggestions for someone following, basically, in your footsteps.

Thanks!
*michalita
 
Working in an agency in which bureaucracy and administrative incompetence interfere with pt care, lines are blurred between different mental health degrees, Axis II diagnoses are equivalent with credentials and valuable professionals are alienated because they won’t put up with BS and…

enneagrams ;) (not to be confused with genograms or anagrams).
 
The fact that I do not know the difference tells you how much I pay attention to such things young Jedi.... I agree with you 100% about your frustrations!!
 
School psychologists. This is like saying we have school neurologists, or school pathologists. The whole idea and political framework is driven by $$. School psychs, are not psychologists by training or licensure, call themselves psychologists to get some props, have 3 months off every year, and cannot practice anything during that time or anytime outside of the school setting. I am beating this horse because the field of psychology, both clinical and research has a long, dignified history, and I am very much against a political, union-based movement degrading our standing int he field.
 
What kind of academic training is required for school psychologists where you live? As far as I know, a Masters Degree in clinical child psychology/school psychology is usually required. I know that many school psychologists have PhDs in Ontario.

Sounds like you should be advocating for stricter quality control on the part of your local College of Psychologists rather than criticizing the whole field.
 
PsiChi, I find your posts about school psychology to be ill-informed and tedious. A previous poster corrected your misunderstandings about the field and yet you insist on propogating inaccurate information. It's irresponsible and a disservice to the board's readers.
 
Feel free to misunderstand or not agree, but the facts are the same about school psychs, and I have stated those facts over and over. I was not corrected, just disagreed with. About 5% of posters here are experienced practitioners, and that is the purpose of this site. I agreed to MOD because I have been a licensed clinical psych for years, have done testing, medical psych, and had time and energy to see how other systems work, so I try to help students understand something they yet do not know. If that is offensive to you, then I would say you should be a FullAPA member, and join the fantasy party-line.:confused:
 
Feel free to misunderstand or not agree, but the facts are the same about school psychs, and I have stated those facts over and over. I was not corrected, just disagreed with. About 5% of posters here are experienced practitioners, and that is the purpose of this site. I agreed to MOD because I have been a licensed clinical psych for years, have done testing, medical psych, and had time and energy to see how other systems work, so I try to help students understand something they yet do not know. If that is offensive to you, then I would say you should be a FullAPA member, and join the fantasy party-line.:confused:
 
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PsiSci, you seemed to miss the point of my previous post - that you are not presenting facts at all, just your (incredibly biased) opinion.

Many school psychologists are psychologists by training and licensure, work year round, and are qualified, (again) by both training and licensure, to practice in multiple settings. And if by "props" you mean condescension from those who do not seem to grasp the nature and scope of their practice, then yes, I guess they certainly get their props.
 
School psychologists. This is like saying we have school neurologists, or school pathologists. The whole idea and political framework is driven by $$. School psychs, are not psychologists by training or licensure, call themselves psychologists to get some props, have 3 months off every year, and cannot practice anything during that time or anytime outside of the school setting. I am beating this horse because the field of psychology, both clinical and research has a long, dignified history, and I am very much against a political, union-based movement degrading our standing int he field.


Psisci,
This is incorrect, at least in Florida-and apparently in New York and Ontario, from what other posters have stated. It seems that in California, School Psychologist is what we call here School Counselor but please stop overgeneralizing from the CA experience. In FL, Licensed Psychologists (Clinical and Counseling)-have to be doctoral level-and School Psychologists-doctoral, specialist, or equivalent-are both Certified for Licensure by the same Board of Psychology Examiners. Please see below.

490.005 Licensure by examination.--

(1) Any person desiring to be licensed as a psychologist shall apply to the department to take the licensure examination. The department shall license each applicant who the board certifies has:

(a) Completed the application form and remitted a nonrefundable application fee not to exceed $500 and an examination fee set by the board sufficient to cover the actual per applicant cost to the department for development, purchase, and administration of the examination, but not to exceed $500.

(b) Submitted proof satisfactory to the board that the applicant has:

1. Received doctoral-level psychological education, as defined in s. 490.003(3);

2. Received the equivalent of a doctoral-level psychological education, as defined in s. 490.003(3), from a program at a school or university located outside the United States of America and Canada, which was officially recognized by the government of the country in which it is located as an institution or program to train students to practice professional psychology. The burden of establishing that the requirements of this provision have been met shall be upon the applicant;

3. Received and submitted to the board, prior to July 1, 1999, certification of an augmented doctoral-level psychological education from the program director of a doctoral-level psychology program accredited by a programmatic agency recognized and approved by the United States Department of Education; or

4. Received and submitted to the board, prior to August 31, 2001, certification of a doctoral-level program that at the time the applicant was enrolled and graduated maintained a standard of education and training comparable to the standard of training of programs accredited by a programmatic agency recognized and approved by the United States Department of Education. Such certification of comparability shall be provided by the program director of a doctoral-level psychology program accredited by a programmatic agency recognized and approved by the United States Department of Education.

(c) Had at least 2 years or 4,000 hours of experience in the field of psychology in association with or under the supervision of a licensed psychologist meeting the academic and experience requirements of this chapter or the equivalent as determined by the board. The experience requirement may be met by work performed on or off the premises of the supervising psychologist if the off-premises work is not the independent, private practice rendering of psychological services that does not have a psychologist as a member of the group actually rendering psychological services on the premises.

(d) Passed the examination. However, an applicant who has obtained a passing score, as established by the board by rule, on the psychology licensure examination designated by the board as the national licensure examination need only pass the Florida law and rules portion of the examination.

(2) Any person desiring to be licensed as a school psychologist shall apply to the department to take the licensure examination. The department shall license each applicant who the department certifies has:
(a) Satisfactorily completed the application form and submitted a nonrefundable application fee not to exceed $250 and an examination fee sufficient to cover the per applicant cost to the department for development, purchase, and administration of the examination, but not to exceed $250 as set by department rule.

(b) Submitted satisfactory proof to the department that the applicant:

1. Has received a doctorate, specialist, or equivalent degree from a program primarily psychological in nature and has completed 60 semester hours or 90 quarter hours of graduate study, in areas related to school psychology as defined by rule of the department, from a college or university which at the time the applicant was enrolled and graduated was accredited by an accrediting agency recognized and approved by the Commission on Recognition of Postsecondary Accreditation or an institution which is publicly recognized as a member in good standing with the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada.

2. Has had a minimum of 3 years of experience in school psychology, 2 years of which must be supervised by an individual who is a licensed school psychologist or who has otherwise qualified as a school psychologist supervisor, by education and experience, as set forth by rule of the department. A doctoral internship may be applied toward the supervision requirement.

3. Has passed an examination provided by the department.

History.--ss. 1, 3, ch. 81-235; ss. 1, 3, ch. 83-265; s. 91, ch. 83-329; ss. 4, 18, 19, ch. 87-252; s. 36, ch. 88-205; s. 36, ch. 88-392; ss. 3, 12, 13, ch. 89-70; s. 10, ch. 90-192; s. 4, ch. 91-429; s. 109, ch. 92-149; s. 30, ch. 94-310; s. 5, ch. 95-279; s. 3, ch. 97-198; s. 195, ch. 97-264; s. 302, ch. 98-166; s. 162, ch. 99-397.


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0490/SEC005.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0490->Section%20005#0490.005
 
sas, You are right that I am overgeneralizing. This position has traditionally, in the west, not just CA been as I have described. I am glad it is different elsewhere. Howcome you are always so good at putting me in my place Sas???:D
 
sas, You are right that I am overgeneralizing. This position has traditionally, in the west, not just CA been as I have described. I am glad it is different elsewhere. Howcome you are always so good at putting me in my place Sas???:D


:laugh: Listen, I'm just glad that in FL School Psychologists are not as the ones in CA; I agree that what you described as the situation there is not good for the name/reputation of our profession and I'm sorry to hear that that situation is not limited to CA.

Peace.

P.S. Then again, CA may yet redeem itself if it the RxP suit results in a break in the current lack of progress on that issue.:D
 
I am just left mindboggled with how utterly demoralizing professional training is in psychology.

I've just come from yet another job opportunity where I am unable to be hired because of the labyrinth of licensing requirements.

I have just finished my pre-doctoral internship. I defend my dissertation in a week. But my university is holding to a decision to require me to take the fourth "course" in a dissertation sequence, even though my work is literally done.

As I'm sure most of you are aware, this leaves me with virtually no employability because I am both unlicensed AND ungraduated.

But even more frustrating, even if I was graduated, finding employment for the post-doc year is complicated by that lack of licensure and inability for programs to bill for your services. So one is pretty much forced to:
  1. Secure one of the rare formal post-doc fellowships, usually sponsored by a major university which so much grant money the inability to bill for services is not an issue;
  2. Work for a state agency because they get to ignore state licensure requirements; or
  3. Acquire an Master's counseling license so you can be paid for your doctoral work as someone from an allied profession because no one seemed to anticipate that post-docs are competent and might actually need to earn a living during their last year of hands-on training

It never ceases to amaze (and sicken) me that for ostensibly the profession of behavioral experts, we have done such a piss-poor job of fostering the next generation of practitioners. It as if some bizarre sense of dining on ashes work ethic has been permanently installed in the profession. If you don't suffer during internship/post-doc, you obviously aren't doing it right.

Even medicine finally learned that the "hallowed" 80 hour work week for residents was a bad idea and started implementing changes.

When will psychology learn?
 
I agree. Psychology will learn as soon as all the old farts running the show, who were trained in the 50's die off and new people take their place. I believe this is happening presently...hang in there.:)
 
I am sorry you do not learn such things. I can't imagine practicing ethically without such knowledge. FYI, psychologists who prescribe in the US have significantly expanded training than a clinical psychologist in order to legally do so.

forgive my ignorance but im from europe and was unaware that psychologists had the ability to ever prescribe medication. how would one go about getting the qualification. while i find this extra very appealing, im curious to know whether it takes away from the psychologists primary role of psychoanalysis, which is really why i entered into this field. would this mean that normal psychologists would be given the charge of these areas?
 
If United Health Care can afford to pay their CEO 124 million dollars you'd think they could scrape together 8 sessions instead of 4 to treat Panic Disorder.

As a former UHC employee (for a short time) it astounded me about all fo the screwings I heard about (word travels on that side too), and then i'd read their financial reports and internal documentation and it was sick the amount of profit they pulled every quarter.

-----------------------------------------

As for my list of things I dislike about psych:

1. If I am out (eating/shopping/getting a haircut/swimming/lifting/etc) I am not there to tell you why you have a fear of socks or why your teenage daughter hates you.

2. We are NOT the same as counselors, LSWs, etc. It irks me to no end to not only hear it from patients, but also to have the practioner drone on about how they are trained just as well to handle serious pathologies, testing, etc.

3. I am NOT analyzing you. When I meet people out, I tell them i'm a consultant (which I do on the side). God forbid you mention what you do, you may hear YET ANOTHER life story of some random person that isn't even paying you. At least buy me a drink (if we are at a restaurant/bar).

4. I cannot read your mind, I don't know what the guy across the street was thinking about you when you tripped on the weiner dog, etc.

5. Insurance Companies......'nough said.

6. Answering the question of why I didn't go to med school instead. (My ultimate goals extend beyond psych, and an MD was of no extra benefit.)

7. No I am not damaged, nor am I in search of why I am screwed up. Project much? :lol:

8. Get a freakin' PAC (Political Action Committee) worth their salt on the Hill. It is unacceptable to be so under-represented not only on the Hill, but also in support $'s.

-t
 
I have just joined this site and virtually all of the sections are not relevant to my experience, but this is one which is. From time to time I may post here. I've just posted an outlined of my background and experience and it may be seen by some as relevant. Here is my first posting under "clinical psychology." I place an emphasis on 'books' and I have found that those who have a genuine interest in books seem to do better in psychology than those who don't.
_

are you certain you are in the right thread?;)
 
A few of mine...

1. "I bet you're analyzing me right now and think I'm nuts, right?" Um, no, I'm thinking about pizza, but it's nice to see that you think so highly of yourself.

2. "So, you get paid a ton of money to sit and talk with people about their miserable lives all day? Must be nice."

3. "Psychology/psychiatry isn't real science -- anyone could do it!"

4. "You went to medical school for that?"

5. "So, are you a social worker?"



Is that you on the picture?:eek:
 
I look young and I get that question EVERY time. Funnily enough, a gyno does not have to be a woman and an oncologist does not have to have had cancer to be perceived as competent...

I've learned to answer "not yet" and that goes over better....I find it of great diagnostic value when the parent angrily snarks "after seeing my kid, you'll never want kids"....in front of the child.... :rolleyes:

Loving this thread. I also look way to young to know what i'm talking about, and I've had this come up lots as well. That is such a great answer; 'not yet'. I have the exact same problem. I'll try that!

I can totally sympathise too with everyone who gets asked if you read minds. I'm not a psychologist, but a genetic counsellor and i get asked if i counsel genes, or make little green men. Its just as fun.

Thanks for the smile ;)
 
When parents of children you are treating ask, "do you have kids?" -- if they find out you do not, then they believe you can't possibly understand them or help them. Yeah, guess those 10 years of school are useless in helping you figure out how to get your whining 3 year old to stop tantruming...
Nice. I love this one too.
I work as a School Counselor at an international school. I get this all the time. Whenever parents ask me if I have kids I say:

"Yeah, I have 560 kids (population of the school) - how many do you have?"

They love it.
 
Ph.D. students, on average, spend longer in school. Doing research, worrying about how research is conducted, and studying theory and application in the depth necessary to conduct research allows for greater understanding of the material. Teaching is also a good way to learn. Like medical school, practical experience isn't all that necessary early on. You need to learn why and how before walking. That's why we have internship and postdoc requirements.


What is the fundamental flaw, do tell?

N=1.
Do people do reasearch on the difference?
 
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