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I didn't mind M1 or M2. I wouldn't want to repeat it, but all I did was wake up and head into school, sit at a big table and read, drink coffee and listen to music. If I got tired there, I would sit by a nice lake at a cafe and repeat the process. I also didn't have to give rectal exams to homeless people, which was a bonus. Really, their housing situation doesn't matter too much with the desirability of the exam, but their showering tendencies are.
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I agree with this. 3rd year has really made me question my choice to go into medicine. Seeing how things really work - all the paperwork, the red tape, the funding issues, the fact that doctors are just humans and they make mistakes all the time and patients can and will suffer for it... it's disheartening, man. Now I fantasize about owning a bakery or something, but at the same time feel trapped in medicine because of $80k loans. Kinda sucks.
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not gonna lie - I can relate to this feeling. I get really frustrated and depressed some days knowing that I'm paying tons of money to go into "work" to be subjectively evaluated and sit on my ass and self-analyze myself into oblivion because I'm worried about what kind of impression I'm making. I'm not sure it's worth it anymore. A bakery sounds pretty nice.
Time for a little vent thread, for my sanity. Feel free to add your own....
1) Putting 4 hours of work into a 12 hour day. No, I don't want to watch you write notes. No, I don't want to listen to you talk on the phone to your girlfriend. No, I don't want to type you a 349th practice H&P that doesn't count. If we're done here, let me go home. If this were the corporate world, this stuff would never be acceptable.
2) Classmates who would sell their mother to make themselves look good/ make you look bad. Dude, that's my patient. The attending asked for a procedure to be done and you saw me leave the room to get my supplies. Running out of the room after me, past me, and grabbing the supplies before I can get there and doing the procedure on my patient isn't cool. This isn't a contest. Well, it may be the biggest d-bag contest.... Congrats, you won.
3) Residents or Attendings who have me pick up a patient.... after they have already seen them, examined them, and ordered everything. Nothing says "I'm a little poser" like walking into a room and saying to that patient, "Hi ma'am, I'm the medical student working with Dr. X. Tell me about what's going on today". Patient: "Uh, I already saw the doctor". Me: "Yeah.... he wants me to play doctor with you, see my cool short white coat!!"
4) Attendings with rules designed to put you in your place. Example: I am not allowed to sit down when they are sitting talking to the patient. 30 minute office visit, three stools in the room. But when they are in there, I am to stand - no sitting, no leaning on the counter. Stand at attention.
Some days I feel like third year is going to suck the life out of me. Sometimes I miss corporate America. Wow, never thought I'd say that.
Feel free to add your own.... a good vent feels good!
5. When a senior/resident completely humiliates you because you made a mistake.
6. When auditioning fourth year students join residents in pimping you. This happened to me during surgery rotation.
7. When other staff members in the hospital try to down badly about MDs and Medical school. Someone at clinic today said " I was always told med school was difficult. That is why I did not go into it. Given my experiences these pass five years, I now know elmo can pass med school". I'm would be getting some application material for her. Afterall, if elmo can do it, so can she.
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Holy mother of Zeus !!! A visiting student had the balls to start pimping you on your own home court. F@ck that. With the way I feel about 3rd year evaluation dynamics right now, I might have just dressed that mf'er down right then and there. It would have been worth whatever minor consequences.
I'm glad I heard this unbelievable story. So that if it happens I might be just not shocked enough to lay down the verbal bitchslap.
Otherwise. I love the mythology that surrounds The Attending. Like s/he's the all seeing Sauron. Responsible for evaluating us from some omniscient inexplicable position.
Really just a dude in a longer coat some years down the road from us. No clue whatsoever who we are or what we do or don't do in his/her busy occupied midst.
That's why our grades are random. They just flat f'n guess based on a smattering of momentary impressions.
I wish the residents were the ones who graded us. Then it would at least make some sense. And why are we obligated to get their endorsement for LOR's when they know so little about us. Again it's the residents who actually are familiar enough with us to give a good rec.
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There is red tape and paperwork with every field/career. Even owning a bakery has tons of BS involved with it. The docs I know who talk the most about going into something else were usually the ones that never did anything before med school.
But yea, one reason I chose the specialty I did is because it minimizes the paperwork.
But yea, one reason I chose the specialty I did is because it minimizes the paperwork.
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This is why I take everything with a grain of salt when it comes to "wow, 3rd year sucks" and "medicine sucks" type posts. I had a few jobs during high school and college that totally sucked. A lot of the things posted here are definitely terrible, but I find it hard to believe that third year is much worse, and frankly many of the things are just a side effect of being in "the real world" rather than the world of academia. If my only work experience was working in a lab or a summer research program or some other laughable excuse for a job, I would also probably be shocked upon starting third year.
Remember, you're paying for the degree, not the education.
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I'm right there with you. I haven't started third year yet, but I can all but guarantee it won't come close to the misery I experienced in my former life (e.g. landscaping crew, moving company, numerous mind numbing positions in retail). It's all about your perspective.
As much I hate spending all day stowed away in a library cubicle, I'd choose that a thousand times before I went back to bagging groceries or standing in a ditch, in the hot sun, weed-eating.
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The frustration with third year is that it is pretty lame, not that it's some sort of reality check. Third year isn't a job, but quite the opposite. We're paying to stand around being bored.
Just wait till you start it. The boredom, the unclear expectations, the neutered responsibility we're given, the cruelly subjective and inconsistent grading, the long hours being a mindless set of hands in the OR, feeling guilty about slowing down residents, realizing that spending your time reading is more valuable than and imparts more learning than 90% of what you do on a given day, etc. Some people thrive on it. I don't think I want to be one of those people.
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Absolutely. This is not a job. Is series of sales pitch opportunities in which you don't even sell yourself in some useful sense. A prostitute at least offers something. We offer nothing. And yet have to be enthusiastic about moments in which to impress people. Brief spurts of song and dance. And it's to the judges for a score. This one liked my smile. That one wanted to see more razzle dazzle. This one doesn't like the way I walk in stilettos. That one wishes I gave more attention to his balls.
Whatever. And then whatever. If you've done more **** work than me in my 4 decades of living ill by you beer. It's not that some whining isn't along those lines. But even though I would never want to go back to m1 and m2, m3 is full of awkwardness that can't be explained. You may take to being a pretend doc.
I'm trying to just get through it. It's not bad. At least we're working with humans. But it's no job that makes any sense.
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That's the good thing about IPhones. When you are sitting around bored, you have stuff to occupy your time
In addition to it being a lifesaver during rotations, it's a lifesaver in the downtime parts as well!
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Third year is the worst. Also Fourth year is the worst. Both years are equally terrible. I thought I was going to pull my hair out.
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That's the good thing about IPhones. When you are sitting around bored, you have stuff to occupy your time
In addition to it being a lifesaver during rotations, it's a lifesaver in the downtime parts as well!
Yeah, but if you're just sitting around on your iPhone during rotations you'll look disinterested and end up with middling evaluations.
I don't think there is an easy answer to do well on the subjective part of 3rd year evals. Just show up on time, be willing to do bitch work, and show as much as interest as you want/can.
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Yeah I agree. That controls for your end of the variability. The first 2 of your criteria are the easy part. But as your post implies showing something to your overseers that is what they approve of or deem as good is the harder part. And Pyrrhic victories are easily achieved as you chase that part exhaustively and sink your shelf knowledge.
You know it's sometimes....yay those discharges were all done perfectly and my and my new best friend intern leave a job well done. And the attending who saw you for rounds 8 hours ago and not since knows nothing of it. And the other student ducked out hours ago to study. And then ends up scoring better on the rotation.
It's this constant gaming and acting without some clear measure of your work being done well or not that just ends up sucking enthusiasm. It seems like to me, fake enthusiasm is rewarded. And therefore your acting ability above all.
If you have no stomach for this charade, 3rd year becomes better than the first two but still not great. Throwing hopes of future, deeper, truer, satisfaction--for me at least--into my years as a resident. After a 4th year respite and an intern adjustment.
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Maybe it's a little of both of your points. Part reality check, part boredom and unclear expectations.
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For the most part yes, but when there is nothing to do(and depending on the service, this could be an hour or 4 hours total)...most people either find something to occupy themselves on the wards(either a book or phone) or retreat to the library. I agree that the image of using your phone might look bad, but that's why you don't do it out in the open
Clinics are usually where you have to be "on" all the time(unless there is a lull in patient charts), but in the wards, or L+D, unless someone is running around 24/7, there is downtime to be found.
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For the most part yes, but when there is nothing to do(and depending on the service, this could be an hour or 4 hours total)...most people either find something to occupy themselves on the wards(either a book or phone) or retreat to the library. I agree that the image of using your phone might look bad, but that's why you don't do it out in the open
Fair point. If you're not expected to be doing something, and are away from the team, then sure, be on your phone for hours at a time. I spend all of my downtime going to the student lounge and watching sportscenter, price is right, and maury.
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I feel sad for you. Fourth year is the absolute best.
The worst thing about third year is that you aren't a fourth year.
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Ditto. I always wonder this.
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I worked in a clothing store one summer and my boss (who was pretty lazy) always made me do new shipment inventory in the warehouse in the back by myself. It was July in the south in a non air-conditioned warehouse... if I ever have any negative feelings about third year next year I'll just remember it could be way freakin worse.
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Ahh Maury. If anyone is feeling bad about themselves during the day, just tune on to that show and you'll feel better instantly!
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Of course. The most recent episode I had the chance to see was one where a girl was on her 16th DNA test to find out who was the father of one of her 5 kids. She had so far successfully ID'd one father of one of her kids. Luckily for her, this man was the father of her 2nd child.
How can you see that and NOT be immediately relieved that your life is better than that?
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Fair enough, we shall see. I think this is also likely institution and even attending-dependent. I've never heard stories like this from any of the MS3s and MS4s. They all actually really enjoyed the clinical years. Maybe they're overly enthusiastic or maybe it's actually a good time, who knows. But really, with some minor changes in terms what you described pretty much describes any minimum wage job. I'm not trying to say that clinicals are a breeze - I wouldn't know. And I'm sure many of the complaints are legitimate. But I find it really hard to believe it's some black hole where it's impossible to have any sort of enjoyment and that it's an absolute waste of time (M1 and much of M2 have been a waste of time, but I still find enjoyment in it for example). That's why I would love to know the backgrounds of people posting their opinions.
wow that sounds awful...
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Well, third year of residency is better in many ways
I work a lot more than most of you, have to study for an exam, and there are still mind games with attendings, but I do actually accomplish a lot, learn a lot, and make a difference. I certainly do NOT miss the feeling of having no idea what's going on and having little power to change that. Just when you figure out the way things work, you're whisked off to another rotation.
I work a lot more than most of you, have to study for an exam, and there are still mind games with attendings, but I do actually accomplish a lot, learn a lot, and make a difference. I certainly do NOT miss the feeling of having no idea what's going on and having little power to change that. Just when you figure out the way things work, you're whisked off to another rotation.
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I remember being an MS3 and reading SDN. And I remember getting really angry at the people who would condescendingly say, "Oh, you probably never had a REAL JOB so that's why you don't like xyz about MS3. I guarantee that I will LOVE IT in 2 years."
And then in 2 years, they'd be posting on SDN, "OMG I HATE THIRD YEAR CAN IT BE OVER ALREADY???"
MS3 is not like any job.
At a real job, you are able to request a day off to go to the dentist or be at a friend's wedding. As an MS3, it is a crapshoot. One of my friends asked, a month in advance, if he could take a day off to be in a friend's wedding; he was yelled at, told he wasn't taking the rotation seriously, and that he would have to come in an extra weekend to make it up.
At a real job, you get paid, As an MS3, you pay for the "opportunity" to be there.
At a real job, the job requirements/expectations are clearly laid out. As an MS3, attendings and residents will spout phrases like, "read more!" or "be pro-active!" without any clear idea of what those things ACTUALLY ENTAIL.
At a real job, you'd never put up with physical abuse. As a med student, I guarantee that, at some point, a nurse, a scrub tech, or a unit secretary will smack your hand, push you aside, or otherwise touch you in some unpleasant way. And you'll be expected to take it. Because everyone else is "more important" and "more valuable" than you.
At a real job, if you're "in the way," you're told to leave. As an MS3, if you're in the way you're told to leave....and then yelled at for not being "interested enough" to stick around.
At a real job, they have some interest, and take some effort, to give you the basics to make sure that you can do your job. As an MS3, you have to completely fend for yourself. Your resident may promise that they will "page you" when you're needed. And then when you don't show up, they'll later yell at you because "WHERE WERE YOU," even though you weren't paged. As an MS3, we were not given access to the X-ray system (PACS) because it was a "HIPAA violation." And our badges were not activated to allow us into the OR or the ER, so you'd frequently have to beg someone to let you in.
My favorite was when I showed up at the hospital early, like 4AM, to see all my patients before rounds. But, of course, nobody ever decided to mention to the med student that her patient was going to be going to the OR and then the ICU, so it was kind of a shock to walk in to her room and see a completely new patient.
At a real job, your time off is your own. When you're an MS3, even if you do go home at a reasonable hour, there are always presentations, journal articles, and exams to prepare for. Your time off is NEVER your own.
And this is coming from somebody who actually LIKED 3rd year. So please, don't lecture people about it when you haven't done it. I know you may have had a bad job or a rough job in the past before med school, but MS3 isn't like any other job out there.
And then in 2 years, they'd be posting on SDN, "OMG I HATE THIRD YEAR CAN IT BE OVER ALREADY???"
MS3 is not like any job.
At a real job, you are able to request a day off to go to the dentist or be at a friend's wedding. As an MS3, it is a crapshoot. One of my friends asked, a month in advance, if he could take a day off to be in a friend's wedding; he was yelled at, told he wasn't taking the rotation seriously, and that he would have to come in an extra weekend to make it up.
At a real job, you get paid, As an MS3, you pay for the "opportunity" to be there.
At a real job, the job requirements/expectations are clearly laid out. As an MS3, attendings and residents will spout phrases like, "read more!" or "be pro-active!" without any clear idea of what those things ACTUALLY ENTAIL.
At a real job, you'd never put up with physical abuse. As a med student, I guarantee that, at some point, a nurse, a scrub tech, or a unit secretary will smack your hand, push you aside, or otherwise touch you in some unpleasant way. And you'll be expected to take it. Because everyone else is "more important" and "more valuable" than you.
At a real job, if you're "in the way," you're told to leave. As an MS3, if you're in the way you're told to leave....and then yelled at for not being "interested enough" to stick around.
At a real job, they have some interest, and take some effort, to give you the basics to make sure that you can do your job. As an MS3, you have to completely fend for yourself. Your resident may promise that they will "page you" when you're needed. And then when you don't show up, they'll later yell at you because "WHERE WERE YOU," even though you weren't paged. As an MS3, we were not given access to the X-ray system (PACS) because it was a "HIPAA violation." And our badges were not activated to allow us into the OR or the ER, so you'd frequently have to beg someone to let you in.
My favorite was when I showed up at the hospital early, like 4AM, to see all my patients before rounds. But, of course, nobody ever decided to mention to the med student that her patient was going to be going to the OR and then the ICU, so it was kind of a shock to walk in to her room and see a completely new patient.
At a real job, your time off is your own. When you're an MS3, even if you do go home at a reasonable hour, there are always presentations, journal articles, and exams to prepare for. Your time off is NEVER your own.
And this is coming from somebody who actually LIKED 3rd year. So please, don't lecture people about it when you haven't done it. I know you may have had a bad job or a rough job in the past before med school, but MS3 isn't like any other job out there.
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Ya, residency is worse than M3. I have yet to do clinical work less than 75 hours a week. I am 'strongly encouraged' by program to be working on several research projects while doing clinicals and oh ya I have the general surgery in-service on Monday and then our Vascular in-service next month. The problem is, people can complain about having to pay for medical school or the crappy pay that we get for working 110+ hours a week, but at the end of the day, most residencies could easily fill your spot.
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Everyone will have a different experience third year. It's as simple as that. Some people are in a hospital and loving it the entire year. Others are dealing with the politics and hierarchy of medicine for every rotation. They're standing around during surgery or pacing the floors looking for something to do while the other student on the service took off hours ago. Still others are in community hospitals where it's just them and the attending. Either they'll luck out and get a good attending who likes them and wants to teach or they'll get one who couldn't care less if they're there or not and treats them like they're always in the way.
There are stories of third years being assaulted, as someone mentioned upthread (and yes, a smack on the hand is still considered assault), stories of sexual harassment, stories of plain harassment, etc. As someone who worked many years in another field prior to med school, I guarantee you none of those things would fly anywhere else. At least not without lawsuits being filed.
Personally, my experience has been pretty benign when compared to others. The nurses and scrub techs have been my best friends. I've never been smacked or abused, even as a first assist on surgeries where I had no business first assisting. Sure, there are some attendings who told sexual jokes here and there that I've considered inappropriate, but I took it for the jokes they were and didn't feel uncomfortable. In fact, the only time I felt uncomfortable was with an attending who repeatedly yelled at me in front of everyone -- nurses, office staff, and patients, for asking what he considered "irrelevant" questions. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, we had finished in the clinic one afternoon and I asked if any of our patients were in labor. Apparently, that's an irrelevant question in OB. Who knew? LOL
Anyway, I think what the third years who complain are getting at is that we realize we're third years and we still have a lot to learn, but it's not asking too much to be treated with a tiny bit of respect in the work place. We may not be doctors, but we're still human beings. On the flip side, could some of it be the reality check you referred to? Of course it could, for some. But there are many others who've had real-world experience prior to med school who will tell you that the atmosphere on some rotations is unlike any job they've had before. Don't dismiss those claims, even if it turns out you, personally, don't experience it when you get there.
I remember being an MS3 and reading SDN. And I remember getting really angry at the people who would condescendingly say, "Oh, you probably never had a REAL JOB so that's why you don't like xyz about MS3. I guarantee that I will LOVE IT in 2 years."
And then in 2 years, they'd be posting on SDN, "OMG I HATE THIRD YEAR CAN IT BE OVER ALREADY???"
MS3 is not like any job.
At a real job, you are able to request a day off to go to the dentist or be at a friend's wedding. As an MS3, it is a crapshoot. One of my friends asked, a month in advance, if he could take a day off to be in a friend's wedding; he was yelled at, told he wasn't taking the rotation seriously, and that he would have to come in an extra weekend to make it up.
At a real job, you get paid, As an MS3, you pay for the "opportunity" to be there.
At a real job, the job requirements/expectations are clearly laid out. As an MS3, attendings and residents will spout phrases like, "read more!" or "be pro-active!" without any clear idea of what those things ACTUALLY ENTAIL.
At a real job, you'd never put up with physical abuse. As a med student, I guarantee that, at some point, a nurse, a scrub tech, or a unit secretary will smack your hand, push you aside, or otherwise touch you in some unpleasant way. And you'll be expected to take it. Because everyone else is "more important" and "more valuable" than you.
At a real job, if you're "in the way," you're told to leave. As an MS3, if you're in the way you're told to leave....and then yelled at for not being "interested enough" to stick around.
At a real job, they have some interest, and take some effort, to give you the basics to make sure that you can do your job. As an MS3, you have to completely fend for yourself. Your resident may promise that they will "page you" when you're needed. And then when you don't show up, they'll later yell at you because "WHERE WERE YOU," even though you weren't paged. As an MS3, we were not given access to the X-ray system (PACS) because it was a "HIPAA violation." And our badges were not activated to allow us into the OR or the ER, so you'd frequently have to beg someone to let you in.
My favorite was when I showed up at the hospital early, like 4AM, to see all my patients before rounds. But, of course, nobody ever decided to mention to the med student that her patient was going to be going to the OR and then the ICU, so it was kind of a shock to walk in to her room and see a completely new patient.
At a real job, your time off is your own. When you're an MS3, even if you do go home at a reasonable hour, there are always presentations, journal articles, and exams to prepare for. Your time off is NEVER your own.
And this is coming from somebody who actually LIKED 3rd year. So please, don't lecture people about it when you haven't done it. I know you may have had a bad job or a rough job in the past before med school, but MS3 isn't like any other job out there.
Thanks for this
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Thanks for this
Agreed, good post.
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3rd years have so little self esteem that the only people they can look special to are 1st and 2nd years. It's posturing. Just like how people who are a few months out after getting their Step 1 score back look back on boards studying and say "ah yeah, boards, that wasn't too bad." Yes, yes it was.
I'm sure there are people who legitimately love 3rd year, but they're probably just people who love playing doctor and walking around in a white coat.
No, not at all. Minimum wage jobs don't carry a fraction of the stress that being a 3rd year carries. Like, the stress of constantly worrying about what everyone around you is thinking about you and what they're going to write on your evaluation, and how much emphasis is put on your ridiculously subjective evaluations. You simply cannot put effort into your education and expect an adequate reward, like how studying hard for a test yields a score you want (except the shelf exam part -- which is a different can of worms).
I've had minimum wage jobs. Yeah, it was boring flipping burgers but I was never stressed out about my future.
There is enjoyment to be had. But most of the enjoyment I find is watching how ridiculous things get (especially on surgery...the only thing that got me up in the morning was anticipating how much a cluster that day would be. It was like watching a trainwreck...can't look away...)
And the other good thing about 3rd year is that I've gotten very close to classmates I've rotated with, sometimes people I never would have thought I'd be buddies with. So the camaraderie aspect is nice.
I remember being an MS3 and reading SDN. And I remember getting really angry at the people who would condescendingly say, "Oh, you probably never had a REAL JOB so that's why you don't like xyz about MS3. I guarantee that I will LOVE IT in 2 years."
And then in 2 years, they'd be posting on SDN, "OMG I HATE THIRD YEAR CAN IT BE OVER ALREADY???"
MS3 is not like any job.
At a real job, you are able to request a day off to go to the dentist or be at a friend's wedding. As an MS3, it is a crapshoot. One of my friends asked, a month in advance, if he could take a day off to be in a friend's wedding; he was yelled at, told he wasn't taking the rotation seriously, and that he would have to come in an extra weekend to make it up.
At a real job, you get paid, As an MS3, you pay for the "opportunity" to be there.
At a real job, the job requirements/expectations are clearly laid out. As an MS3, attendings and residents will spout phrases like, "read more!" or "be pro-active!" without any clear idea of what those things ACTUALLY ENTAIL.
At a real job, you'd never put up with physical abuse. As a med student, I guarantee that, at some point, a nurse, a scrub tech, or a unit secretary will smack your hand, push you aside, or otherwise touch you in some unpleasant way. And you'll be expected to take it. Because everyone else is "more important" and "more valuable" than you.
At a real job, if you're "in the way," you're told to leave. As an MS3, if you're in the way you're told to leave....and then yelled at for not being "interested enough" to stick around.
At a real job, they have some interest, and take some effort, to give you the basics to make sure that you can do your job. As an MS3, you have to completely fend for yourself. Your resident may promise that they will "page you" when you're needed. And then when you don't show up, they'll later yell at you because "WHERE WERE YOU," even though you weren't paged. As an MS3, we were not given access to the X-ray system (PACS) because it was a "HIPAA violation." And our badges were not activated to allow us into the OR or the ER, so you'd frequently have to beg someone to let you in.
My favorite was when I showed up at the hospital early, like 4AM, to see all my patients before rounds. But, of course, nobody ever decided to mention to the med student that her patient was going to be going to the OR and then the ICU, so it was kind of a shock to walk in to her room and see a completely new patient.
At a real job, your time off is your own. When you're an MS3, even if you do go home at a reasonable hour, there are always presentations, journal articles, and exams to prepare for. Your time off is NEVER your own.
And this is coming from somebody who actually LIKED 3rd year. So please, don't lecture people about it when you haven't done it. I know you may have had a bad job or a rough job in the past before med school, but MS3 isn't like any other job out there.
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Yeah third year blows looking forward to it being done. Just like everyone else has said its not what you think it will be like looking at it from afar (1st and 2nd year). You have no real job or purpose of being there and the thought someone is constantly judging you sucks esp when you can know and do everything right and still end up with just ok evals or something. I wouldn't say its better or worse than 1st or 2nd year only because besides board studying years 1 and 2 were an extension of college with just more school work. I would never want to go back but there is something to be said about having your own schedule, sleeping in when you want, going to the gym at 1230 in the afternoon if you wanted to etc. The studying blows though I couldn't do that again and that is one of the nice things about 3rd year, the studying is different, more relevant and of course significantly less.
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Fair enough, I suppose I have been blinded by pre-clinical naivete. I haven't heard about any of these things from any student that has done rotations at our school though. There have been some complaints about grading but for the most part people seem to think they get what they earn. The only complaint I've heard multiple times is that a lot of time is spent doing nothing, which frankly is what I would expect. Still looking forward to it though if only for the change of pace.
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Can't wait to be done with pre clinicals, anything has to be better than this hell
Heh, it's not all bad (I love the flexibility in our schedule and my ability to do absolutely nothing for a day or two if I don't want to), but yeah - definitely looking forward to not memorizing the phonebook for a few hours of most days.
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Can't wait to be done with pre clinicals, anything has to be better than this hell
Don't worry...once you start third year, you will realize that it is much better than MS1 and MS2. You will love it, but once you get near the end and have figured out what you want to do, you will become a disgruntled MS3. Then all of a sudden, July 1st will hit, and you will be a MS4 taking electives in what you want to do with your life and you will love school once again.
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Notice the thread title. Things I hate about 3rd year. Things meaning these specific things, not all things. Nowhere a comparison to previous things. "I" implying a personal narrative and proclivity or tastes for certain activities. "3rd" year implying if you haven't done it, have a go at it before you go poppin off about what you imagine we must have had in terms of life experiences.
This is what makes us intolerable company as a group. We know everything all the time. It's also one of the things I hate about 3rd year, having to compete for appearances with people who can't not know something to the effect that everybody's hiding what they don't know and vomiting what they do to outdo each other. And the game is propagated by our superiors as education and efficacious evaluation.
All the while nothing real to counter the game. No bit of actual work performance to give yourself over to, in order to drown out the noise.
I'm with the above poster who said that s/he doesn't want to be the person who is good at this.
Thanks to smq for repping the truth about all of our potentially different experiences and reactions.
This is what makes us intolerable company as a group. We know everything all the time. It's also one of the things I hate about 3rd year, having to compete for appearances with people who can't not know something to the effect that everybody's hiding what they don't know and vomiting what they do to outdo each other. And the game is propagated by our superiors as education and efficacious evaluation.
All the while nothing real to counter the game. No bit of actual work performance to give yourself over to, in order to drown out the noise.
I'm with the above poster who said that s/he doesn't want to be the person who is good at this.
Thanks to smq for repping the truth about all of our potentially different experiences and reactions.
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At some schools, they do STEP I after third year. I think that might be better for rotations, because it forces the residents to focus on teaching rather than making you do scut. After all, if they don't teach, the students will herp on STEP I, and the school faculty will probably get really mad.
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I'm not sure why a resident would care about whether or not I'm taking step 1 after third year. It's not like they're going to be dismissed from their program if the medical students do poorly.
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residents and attendings are the worst people to try and learn step 1 info from because much of that stuff is clinically irrelevant and long forgotten.
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They won't, but I'd imagine that if the students complained about doing useless stuff all the time, the school would look for new residents to teach.
Hahaha. This thread is killing me. No one even acknowledges 3rd year med students, let alone modify curriculum or fire/hire residents based on their complaints. Pro tip: no one likes a complainer, that's why we bit** about it among ourselves and come to SDN - no one knows who we are and it can't hurt us.
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Alright, I get it, I'm naive and stupid. I figured that schools would at least take a little interest in their students given how much we pay them, but I guess it's gonna be like being in undergrad again, where nobody gives a crap haha.
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Look, a thread called "Things I Hate About Third Year" is probably going to result in some self-selection of posters. I'm getting down to my last rotations of MS3, and I've actually had a pretty good experience. Sure there are crappy things like grading inconsistencies, attendings that don't like teaching, etc. But I feel like I've learned a ton and actually have liked nearly all of the residents I've worked with. It may just be my school, but on all of my rotations my notes were used, I was taught procedures/OR stuff, and in general treated pretty well. You do have to go with the flow, though. A lot of med students are used to being in charge of things and having other people looking to them for guidance, which is obviously not going to happen. Also, pimping is to teach, not to embarrass. You're doing it wrong if you're still dwelling on that one question X resident asked you hours later. The point is to work hard, learn as much as you can, and pick a specialty. If you can do that while letting trivial things (oh no, a nurse yelled at you... who cares?) roll off your back and just be a chill/fun person to work with, in general you'll probably have a lot of fun.
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Can't wait to be done with pre clinicals, anything has to be better than this hell
Nah, man. Preclinicals give you free time, the ability to roll out of bed like a disheveled mess (if you're so inclined), lectures to skip, weekends completely off, enough of an open schedule that you can go out and have a beer whenever you feel like it, etc.
3rd year basically takes away that last bit of control you have over your schedule. Yeah, I realize that residency is far worse and it had to happen eventually. But I often think back longingly on those days where I could just go to coffeeshops all day and read.
