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Things I wish I had known..
Started by Rollo
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I wish I had known that the excruciatingly common SDN mantra of "come early, stay late" to get good grades is complete and utter garbage. It's not like I had any intention of being around longer than I needed to be, but it would've been nice to know (instead of assuming) that working hard, doing what you're supposed to be doing, and making an effort to learn and improve is more than enough. You also don't need to douche it up by telling every attending you're interested in his/her field. Do what's expected of you, and do it as well as you can.
Be nice to everyone. It doesn't matter if they're sucking your soul out; be nice.
Don't be obnoxious. Nobody likes the student who asks questions inappropriately, brings up "fascinating articles" with the attending, volunteers to come in on days off to do clinical duties, etc.
Be a team player. Third year can get really hectic, and it's easy to get lost in the shuffle sometimes. Help your fellow students out when they need it, and try to save your residents some work whenever you can. That may not be possible at the beginning due to lack of experience and/or know-how, but you can at least be a supply bitch or return calls or something.
Be nice to everyone. It doesn't matter if they're sucking your soul out; be nice.
Don't be obnoxious. Nobody likes the student who asks questions inappropriately, brings up "fascinating articles" with the attending, volunteers to come in on days off to do clinical duties, etc.
Be a team player. Third year can get really hectic, and it's easy to get lost in the shuffle sometimes. Help your fellow students out when they need it, and try to save your residents some work whenever you can. That may not be possible at the beginning due to lack of experience and/or know-how, but you can at least be a supply bitch or return calls or something.
I wish I had known these two things.
1) At some point during third year, most people start to feel like they are the biggest screw-up ever to attend their med school. When that happens, find someone to talk to. Your Mom, your boyfriend, the school counselor, it doesn't matter who, but talk to someone.
2) You will get yelled at for things that are not your fault. Heck, you will get yelled at for doing exactly what the last attending told you to do. Try not to take it personally, and then vent to your friends later.
1) At some point during third year, most people start to feel like they are the biggest screw-up ever to attend their med school. When that happens, find someone to talk to. Your Mom, your boyfriend, the school counselor, it doesn't matter who, but talk to someone.
2) You will get yelled at for things that are not your fault. Heck, you will get yelled at for doing exactly what the last attending told you to do. Try not to take it personally, and then vent to your friends later.
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To add to this, you will also get yelled for not doing something you just did (properly) and vice versa.
Always wear shoe covers when on OB/Gyn... you never know when that baby is going to come out and the last thing you want is to walk around with amniotic/meconium-stained shoes for the rest of the day. I would even suggest double-bagging to be safe. Same goes for those big vascular surgery cases... a AAA repair can easily turn the OR into a murder scene with all that arterial blood flying across the room.
Great topic.
Agree with what someone said earlier...in my experience I found it was NOT about the cliches of showing up early, staying late, knowing all the answers when being pimped, bringing in articles, etc...
Heres my input-
Keeping it simple. Three things (I think) to doing well:
1- Having enthusiasm
2- Staying humble and being respectful to everyone
3- Having a personality
Almost everyone gets #1. I think many don't get #2 and #3.
And three things that hopefully help keep you sane/happy:
1- When residents give you the option to go home early... they mean it. Take advantage of it. Its not a test to see how dedicated you are.
2- Some of the people (attendings and residents) who you thought hated you, may actually end up giving you some of the best evals. So don't let the man get you down.
3- Attendings and residents assume that if you're out of sight, you're busy doing something. Remember this when you're hungry, need a coffee break, etc. You don't have to be a martyr to be liked and do well.
Hope it helps...
Agree with what someone said earlier...in my experience I found it was NOT about the cliches of showing up early, staying late, knowing all the answers when being pimped, bringing in articles, etc...
Heres my input-
Keeping it simple. Three things (I think) to doing well:
1- Having enthusiasm
2- Staying humble and being respectful to everyone
3- Having a personality
Almost everyone gets #1. I think many don't get #2 and #3.
And three things that hopefully help keep you sane/happy:
1- When residents give you the option to go home early... they mean it. Take advantage of it. Its not a test to see how dedicated you are.
2- Some of the people (attendings and residents) who you thought hated you, may actually end up giving you some of the best evals. So don't let the man get you down.
3- Attendings and residents assume that if you're out of sight, you're busy doing something. Remember this when you're hungry, need a coffee break, etc. You don't have to be a martyr to be liked and do well.
Hope it helps...
Absolutely agree with the above. It's not about being the smartest or being able to answer ever pimp question.
Some humility and an honest willingness to learn go a long way. Everyone has come across that student that talks and spits out facts just to hear themselves talk. So don't be that person that comes across as "un-teachable".
I think I've done very well on rotations from feedback I've received and it certainly has not been from knowing everything or being the smartest one around. I just show up willing to learn and do. If asked to start an admit then I'd just go start it, including calling the nursing home about your elderly pt that was sent to the ER, go through the EMS report, getting records from the primary faxed over, looking up old records in the EMR, etc... If you can start certain things on your own by anticipating what the team is going to need instead of waiting to be asked to do each specific task then you can come across as a rock star.
Some humility and an honest willingness to learn go a long way. Everyone has come across that student that talks and spits out facts just to hear themselves talk. So don't be that person that comes across as "un-teachable".
I think I've done very well on rotations from feedback I've received and it certainly has not been from knowing everything or being the smartest one around. I just show up willing to learn and do. If asked to start an admit then I'd just go start it, including calling the nursing home about your elderly pt that was sent to the ER, go through the EMS report, getting records from the primary faxed over, looking up old records in the EMR, etc... If you can start certain things on your own by anticipating what the team is going to need instead of waiting to be asked to do each specific task then you can come across as a rock star.
Make sure you are paying attention. I know not every rotation in medical school will have every student captivated, but make an attempt to be involved and engaged. If you check out on rounds, everyone will notice. It will affect your grade. No one gets failed for it, but if you want vanilla subjective comments, then space off.
Be on time - seriously. Don't make excuses.
Don't wait for your resident to assign you something to do, ASK if you can be helpful. If I don't think your presence is necessary, I will send you away to do something you want to do (study, nap, laundry, whatever). If you disappear, it will affect your evaluation. Again, you won't fail, but I'll have nothing awesome to say about you. For god's sake if I send you home, ****ing go - it's not a test, I'm not ****ing with you. I remember what it was like to be a student, and knocking off even one hour early some days makes a big difference.
Medicine service can be busy, and sometimes I can forget to make time to teach. Ask me to teach. Ask me about articles. Have a topic in mind. The days of expecting spoon feedings are over. Help me, help you.
Be on time - seriously. Don't make excuses.
Don't wait for your resident to assign you something to do, ASK if you can be helpful. If I don't think your presence is necessary, I will send you away to do something you want to do (study, nap, laundry, whatever). If you disappear, it will affect your evaluation. Again, you won't fail, but I'll have nothing awesome to say about you. For god's sake if I send you home, ****ing go - it's not a test, I'm not ****ing with you. I remember what it was like to be a student, and knocking off even one hour early some days makes a big difference.
Medicine service can be busy, and sometimes I can forget to make time to teach. Ask me to teach. Ask me about articles. Have a topic in mind. The days of expecting spoon feedings are over. Help me, help you.
You hit on something interesting here. At least, it's interesting enough to me to ask you a follow up question.
How far would you want your students to go to ask you to teach them something? What I am asking is, as a student, where would I draw the line from "I want him to teach me about this but not now because he's too busy" to "I want him to teach me about this now because he hasn't taught in awhile and maybe he forgot"?
Did that make sense? What makes an "annoying-constantly asking questions" student and what makes an "genuinely interested" student?
I'd say that anything you run across during a case is fair game to ask about. It would probably be wise to keep the questions fairly focused so you're not asking your resident for a lecture. Also, if you know your resident has some particular interest - something he does a bunch of research in or will be doing a fellowship in - ask him about that field if you have anything come up. Just like anyone else, they'll let you know if/when they have time to go over things with you. In other words, you should treat your residents regular people who just happen to know more about your subject of interest than you do (because - surprise! - that's what they are).
Hmmm. You are correct in that maybe it does put you in a bit of awkward position. But perhaps if you phrased it in such a way like this, "Hey this guy has X, and we're treating him with Y. We're all a little confused by all the different ways to do this. Would it be possible for you to talk about this some when you get a chance?"
And the difference is usually pretty obvious, at least to me. I think if you've got a real question, ask. Making up a question will shine through. I personally like to employ some of socratic method when I teach, so don't be surprised if after you ask a question, you get another question tossed back at you. I and others do this to help you connect the mental dots, and once you've got the connections it makes sense.
part of us asking students questions is not to be a jerk and pimp you. A lot of us asking students questions has to do with finding out where you are coming from - what's your learning base? do you have the background knowledge to make my initial answer make sense? what's your angle on the question? how can I most effectively answer your question in the way you meant me to approach it?
If you know you're going into surgery, just tell everyone you're undecided.
Do not be that guy who says "oh definitely [current rotation]."
Do not be that guy who says "oh definitely [current rotation]."
1. buy iPhone or iTouch (best investment ever!)
2. install all PreTest Apps on iPhone or iTouch
3. Do questions on iPhone or iTouch during downtime
i bought mine on my last rotation, wish i had known how awesome these things are before i started
2. install all PreTest Apps on iPhone or iTouch
3. Do questions on iPhone or iTouch during downtime
i bought mine on my last rotation, wish i had known how awesome these things are before i started
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I don't even think you need to say undecided. When house staff/attendings asked me what I was interested in, I think they were genuinely curious. Every resident did multiple rotations in clerkships that they didn't end up going into. Nothing wrong with being honest.
The future psych resident who shows up early every day, shows genuine interest in cases and patients, and is always eager to help out will get better comments than the surgery gunner who phones it in.
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Yeah, I definitely wouldn't lie to anyone about what I was going into. I agree that most people are genuinely interested in what you want to do, whether they turn around and give you crap for your choice or not. Even if that's not the case, is it worth selling your dignity for some perceived shred of improved standing with that one particular person? Not a chance in hell, in my opinion. If some attending wants to knock me down because I'm doing anesthesia, that's fine by me.
Agree with this. I was honest all year- in every rotation, even surgery- about my intention to apply to psych residencies. FM, IM, peds, and OB/Gyn generally responded with "we NEED more psychiatrists- when can we start referring our patients?" Surgeons were surprisingly good about it (had some great discussions with the plastics guys about body dysmorphic disorder), and the neurologists just wanted someone to refer their psychogenic seizure patients to.
I actually had a PGY-4 OB/Gyn resident tell me that it was refreshing to hear me say I had no intention of going into OB/Gyn- said he's sick of people pandering to him for a better grade.
YMMV.
By the time med students make it to third year, if they tell me they want to go into IM (and not just to get to cards or GI), I don't really believe them.
Really? Why not?
IM started really appealing to me as an MS2. There are just so many options that cards and GI haven't really crossed my mind! I like "medicine", I like the hospitalist schedule, I like the option to work at an out-patient clinic doing primary care, nephrology appeals to me, ID appeals to me, etc, etc.
Why? Because so many med students are lazy and want the easy life and money. But even having a nice lifestyle and paycheck I don't really hate on, but more the attitude and general douchebag nature of the students that value these things. You get on here and you read everyone bitching about how boring medicine is, and how much they hate rounds, and such. Sometimes it's hard for a cynic like me to suspend my disbelief.
But it sounds like I'd believe you. 😀
1. buy iPhone or iTouch (best investment ever!)
2. install all PreTest Apps on iPhone or iTouch
3. Do questions on iPhone or iTouch during downtime
i bought mine on my last rotation, wish i had known how awesome these things are before i started
What other apps are good to have?
Thanks,
Nick
Epocrates and Medscape. Ob/Gyn has their little wheel apps for estimating gestational age and stuff, those are super helpful too. you'll look really good if you look up dosages for your residents/attendings. they've also had to look stuff up on my phone several times for treatment recs and stuff like that; again, these will the times that you will be of MOST help and they will like you, however, it will require being able to anticipate their next move but that will come with time
Wait...people who value lifestyle and paychecks are generally douchebags? Got to disagree with you there. If anything, I'd actually argue the opposite is true, at least where people who have already completed a year or more of med school are concerned .
I totally followed the mantra of "come early, leave late" and made plenty of efforts to do anything that made the lives of my residents easier even if they didn't ask - offer to make calls, consults, etc. When the workload seemed to slow down and my residents had some downtime, I'd ask them if they could show me how to D/C prep, start admission order sets, discharge summaries and dictations, i.e. tasks that MS3's never do. Essentially, anything that made life easier for my team for a better evaluation, in addition to the bread and butter activities like knowing my patients, disease processes, anatomy, etc.
So where did that land me? I got some pretty stellar written evaluations and several attendings commented independently across different services that they felt like I operated significantly above the MS3 level and more like a mid-level resident.
HOWEVER. I spent a lot of time seeing my classmates studying for the shelf exams or hearing about how much material they worked through instead of doing that myself and my overall grades suffered. So if I had to go through it again, I'd definitely be enthusiastic and offer to help where needed but I'd keep my education first and foremost in my mind... I guess that should've been pretty obvious.
So where did that land me? I got some pretty stellar written evaluations and several attendings commented independently across different services that they felt like I operated significantly above the MS3 level and more like a mid-level resident.
HOWEVER. I spent a lot of time seeing my classmates studying for the shelf exams or hearing about how much material they worked through instead of doing that myself and my overall grades suffered. So if I had to go through it again, I'd definitely be enthusiastic and offer to help where needed but I'd keep my education first and foremost in my mind... I guess that should've been pretty obvious.
Hah actually I guess the one thing that I had wish I had known really was to get on SDN earlier... so I guess you're on the ball there.
As someone interested in gas, I'm sure you would have to disagree with me. I really shouldn't have said anything in the first place, and won't continue the off topic discussion on that in this thread.
I do agree with you that you should just tell people what you're interested in, and not play games. To not know for sure is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I'd think probably close to half of people in medical don't finally make up their minds until they've finished their core rotations.
First of all, I don't think there ever were days in which med students were spoon fed. Based on your comments, I think you are part of the problem instead of the solution. Students should not have to remind you to teach. As a resident, it is part of your job (for which you are being paid). Obviously there are times when teaching is not possible due to the work load. But it's absurd to request that students "ask you to teach." If you aren't actively teaching and helping students, then you are shirking your responsibilities to them, your patients, and your employer. Sorry for the harsh criticism, but you chose this lifestyle.
In terms of things one should know going into clinical rotations. I think the most important thing is to always pay attention and to get involved with the patients during rounds. Specifically, when a resident or attending puts their stethoscope to the patient, you should as well. Residents and attendings hate it when students stand in the corner as if they're afraid they'll catch something from the patients.
Medical students are certainly spoon fed the first two years of medical school. Remember those things called "lectures" and "notes"?
And I'm not sure which comments lad you to conclude I'm part of the problem. If you don't know or understand something, you're going to have to speak up - that is YOUR responsibility. I teach, I instruct, and I help my students as best I can. I am, however, doing this from my own perspective.
Your criticism isn't "harsh" it's merely ignorant. There's a big difference.
Welcome to SDN by the way, I'm glad I was the target of your first post . . .
(the cynic in me wonders, who exactly, you actually regularly post as - overactivebrain perhaps? Are u still mad?)
See the attitude. Part of the problem. 
Now take a deep cleansing breath.
I feel sorry for your students. Future 3rd years, this is what you have to look forward to. You just have to learn to ignore it. That is my best advice. Have a great day!
Now take a deep cleansing breath. I feel sorry for your students. Future 3rd years, this is what you have to look forward to. You just have to learn to ignore it. That is my best advice. Have a great day!
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Most important part about third-year is wrapping your head around the reality that very soon you're going to have a lot of responsibility and it's really all on you to learn what you need to learn. Truth is it's quite easy to float through third-year, you have to be pretty all-round socially inept/really dumb/lazy to fail rotations at most schools; doesn't mean it's acceptable. Remember all that crap about "lifelong learning" that we groaned to hear during UG/MS1? well turns out it was true.. if you wanna become a good clinician you gotta take your education in your own hands and take advantage of opportunities as they present.
and yes residents should try to teach their students, but students should also make an effort to help their residents and not say things like, "i feel sorry for your patients." two way street. The entitled med student is maybe the most ridiculous creature on the planet.
and yes residents should try to teach their students, but students should also make an effort to help their residents and not say things like, "i feel sorry for your patients." two way street. The entitled med student is maybe the most ridiculous creature on the planet.
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I definitely agree with you that it's a two way street. Students must do their part by reading, being on time, and working hard. But anyone who has ever worked on the wards knows that most book learning goes out the window once you hit the floors. On the wards you learn by doing and through discussion. By the way, by definition, all medical students are entitled. They are entitled to receive an education.
I go out of my way to teach people because I know everyone benefits (including me).
I go out of my way to teach people because I know everyone benefits (including me).
See the attitude. Part of the problem.
I feel sorry for your students. Future 3rd years, this is what you have to look forward to. You just have to learn to ignore it. That is my best advice. Have a great day!
Attitude? What attitude? I have attitude because you are wrong and ignorant?
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Definitely. I'm far enough along that I forget that the new M3s don't know the difference between different central lines and why someone might need one and when they don't. So I ask them if they know the differences, and where their knowledge ends, I start explaining.
Whatevs D&D boy. Take a xanax and go help some poor students out. Just because you suffered doesn't mean they have to.
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1. Patients are idiots... but at times we are too. So when you catch yourself saying that about them, think of the time you contaminated your sterile field in surgery or some other stupid thing you did...
2. Don't lie. If you didn't do something or if you don't know, say so. Guess what... residents and attendings forget to check things too.
3. Babies are slippery. Babies are slippery. Last time, babies are slippery. You do not want to be Adrian Peterson in the delivery room. Practice with oiled watermelons if you need to.
4. Have an open mind and have fun. Take time to learn something from each rotation.
2. Don't lie. If you didn't do something or if you don't know, say so. Guess what... residents and attendings forget to check things too.
3. Babies are slippery. Babies are slippery. Last time, babies are slippery. You do not want to be Adrian Peterson in the delivery room. Practice with oiled watermelons if you need to.
4. Have an open mind and have fun. Take time to learn something from each rotation.
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45408
Just slip this into a conversation tomorrow, with no prelude.
...
What kinda oil did ya use?
I wanted to update everyone with how my first rotation went. It was inpatient internal medicine month. No overnight calls but hours were still long.
I followed the advice given here which meant I didn't show up earlier than I was expected to and I didn't insist on staying late when my resident told me to go home early.
First week or so, I had to be babysat because I was getting used to my surroundings and I wasn't sure what I should be doing. I then quickly became independent and found ways to keep myself busy throughout the day. By doing simple stuff like looking up pending lab values, diagnostic studies, reading up on consults' notes, seeing how the patient is doing, etc.
I was given 2 patients to follow in the beginning but towards the end, I was following 4-5 patients (and our team was capped at 10) seeing them in the morning, writing progress notes on them, following up with consults and lab values, etc.
I got real good at looking up patient information on computer so I was able to dig deep and find out their past hospitalization course and previous specialists' recommendations.
Basically, I knew as much about my patients as my resident knew. This, more than anything, helped out my resident the greatest because then she didn't have to spend time on keeping up with those patients, and she could focus on the sicker patients. We had a rule that the sickest patients on our team would be followed by the resident while I could take somewhat stable patients.
I ended up with a honors pass and stellar comments from my resident about how I'll be a great asset to any residency program in the future, etc. The attending agreed even though I never directly worked with him.
I want to thank you folks who posted in here and I encourage current and older students to continue to post on here.
I've learned the key to success is to make your resident's life easy by taking whatever workload you can off of them, be independent and productive, and just work hard. It sounds simple enough but it's not as easy to put into practice because it seems that lot of students don't know how to put these advice into actual practice.
Is my assessment pretty close to what "makes" a good medical student?
I followed the advice given here which meant I didn't show up earlier than I was expected to and I didn't insist on staying late when my resident told me to go home early.
First week or so, I had to be babysat because I was getting used to my surroundings and I wasn't sure what I should be doing. I then quickly became independent and found ways to keep myself busy throughout the day. By doing simple stuff like looking up pending lab values, diagnostic studies, reading up on consults' notes, seeing how the patient is doing, etc.
I was given 2 patients to follow in the beginning but towards the end, I was following 4-5 patients (and our team was capped at 10) seeing them in the morning, writing progress notes on them, following up with consults and lab values, etc.
I got real good at looking up patient information on computer so I was able to dig deep and find out their past hospitalization course and previous specialists' recommendations.
Basically, I knew as much about my patients as my resident knew. This, more than anything, helped out my resident the greatest because then she didn't have to spend time on keeping up with those patients, and she could focus on the sicker patients. We had a rule that the sickest patients on our team would be followed by the resident while I could take somewhat stable patients.
I ended up with a honors pass and stellar comments from my resident about how I'll be a great asset to any residency program in the future, etc. The attending agreed even though I never directly worked with him.
I want to thank you folks who posted in here and I encourage current and older students to continue to post on here.
I've learned the key to success is to make your resident's life easy by taking whatever workload you can off of them, be independent and productive, and just work hard. It sounds simple enough but it's not as easy to put into practice because it seems that lot of students don't know how to put these advice into actual practice.
Is my assessment pretty close to what "makes" a good medical student?
It's what I did all year and earned excellent evals for, so I'd imagine it is. I can't see how anything more would be expected of you.
Sooo true, and very well said. 👍
I....can't say that I've ever considered doing this to prepare for an OB rotation.
I'm on the tail end of my FM clerkship so I haven't much experience in the way of inpatient lol, but...
... if this is one of your first clerkships, start studying VERY early on especially if you haven't had medicine, peds, and OB/GYN beforehand. That's essentially all of what FM entails. Try to get in an hour a night of reading if you can and you'll be golden. It covers a wide, broad space of very random topics. You should have the time since this is generally a much easier clerkship in terms of clinical hours you have to spend at your preceptor's office etc (mine were 9/9:30 to 3 or 4 on most days).
... if this is one of your first clerkships, start studying VERY early on especially if you haven't had medicine, peds, and OB/GYN beforehand. That's essentially all of what FM entails. Try to get in an hour a night of reading if you can and you'll be golden. It covers a wide, broad space of very random topics. You should have the time since this is generally a much easier clerkship in terms of clinical hours you have to spend at your preceptor's office etc (mine were 9/9:30 to 3 or 4 on most days).
I didn't have a chance to read through the whole post, but I wish that I had been given a briefing on how to handle the hierarchy at teaching hospitals. I learned very early on as an OMS3 how to put a filter up so that I could do my job (advocate for patients and learn).
During my first rotation, surgery, my preceptor expected me to follow him around while he struck up random conversations with the staff and nurses. This had no educational value, but since it was my first rotation, I wasn't yet sure how to advocate for what I needed (which was to study instead of following him around like a drone). That was a VERY long 4 weeks.
So fast fwd 6 months---On one rotation, I was asked by the office manager to stay late and enter my preceptors notes into the EMR for patients had not even seen. Since there are ethical and HIPAA issues with this, I was able to politely turn her down. My eval was still flawless from that rotation. I learned that if you treat people with respect and play by the rules, for the most part you will emerge from your third year unharmed 😛
So in summary, you don't need to let people walk all over you and tell you to do things that are against your ethical beliefs. Show hella respect for people and they will do the same for you. Make it clear from the start that your objectives are to 1)Learn medicine 2)Advocate for patients. Never a bad idea to talk to your preceptors at the beginning of each rotation to let them know what you want to get out of your time there. Hope this helped!
During my first rotation, surgery, my preceptor expected me to follow him around while he struck up random conversations with the staff and nurses. This had no educational value, but since it was my first rotation, I wasn't yet sure how to advocate for what I needed (which was to study instead of following him around like a drone). That was a VERY long 4 weeks.
So fast fwd 6 months---On one rotation, I was asked by the office manager to stay late and enter my preceptors notes into the EMR for patients had not even seen. Since there are ethical and HIPAA issues with this, I was able to politely turn her down. My eval was still flawless from that rotation. I learned that if you treat people with respect and play by the rules, for the most part you will emerge from your third year unharmed 😛
So in summary, you don't need to let people walk all over you and tell you to do things that are against your ethical beliefs. Show hella respect for people and they will do the same for you. Make it clear from the start that your objectives are to 1)Learn medicine 2)Advocate for patients. Never a bad idea to talk to your preceptors at the beginning of each rotation to let them know what you want to get out of your time there. Hope this helped!
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Build your reputation early. Also figure out who is going to grade you, and get on his/her good side. When I was a third year, a 4th yr SubI told me to make his bed on the on-call rm (seriously, guy had some balls!). I refused and so he and one resident (who was his friend) told all other residents I don't follow orders. Good thing I had a reputation for asking for extra work when I had nothing to do. Got a great eval and few LOR's from that rotation.
Also students spend a lot of time with residents, but remember, its the attending who will give you LOR. At lunchtime, I would go sit with an attending who was eating alone, instead with residents like all the other med students. The attendings liked the company, and I got to learn about what life was like after all the training.
Also students spend a lot of time with residents, but remember, its the attending who will give you LOR. At lunchtime, I would go sit with an attending who was eating alone, instead with residents like all the other med students. The attendings liked the company, and I got to learn about what life was like after all the training.
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Wow, that's... not even ballsy, that's just ******ed. I could easily see some M3 being none too impressed with that kind of douchery and making sure the sub-I got some unwanted attention for crap like that.
Or instead of being a tool and trying to choose people to suck up to, be a professional, courteous, nice person and you will not have any troubles with your clerkships. Also I'm almost 100% certain you can get that person in some deep trouble for refusing to make their bed.
And the second paragraph... seriously? Nobody gives a crap who you eat lunch with if they're an attending or a resident. The kiss-@$$ is strong in this one.
Of course no one cares who you eat lunch with. All I'm saying is most students dont bother to ask for LOR's till its time for ERAS. How are you supposed to get a personalized letter when an attending barely knows you. As a student rotating through a large hospital, the only interaction you really have with attending is during rounds and a week later you're on a different service.
This is largely specialty dependent... for Rads I know at my school they mandate a letter from the rads dept head, for which they work to set up guaranteed research or clinical time at the beginning of 4th year.
Most of the teams at my hospitals never have more than 4 students along with the attached attending and residents. The simple thing is to ask the person to write a letter and keep it on file shortly after you've finished your rotation (assuming they like you of course).
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