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billclinton,

First of all, you need to know that when I had less knowledge, I felt similarly to you... that podiatrists should not be considered physicians. I was mainly influenced by online threads of ignorant individuals and my own ignorance.

My viewpoint has changed and yours should too. Let me explain.... In the early 80's there were only 22 surgical residency positions in the country and only 20% of podiatry graduates got any type of residency at all. So, being perfectly fair, most of the podiatrists "out there" were poorly trained when compared to MD/DO specialty standards. Most of these individuals are still in practice. It would be hard for anyone to consider such individuals on the same academic level as MD/DO's. Fortunately, the times have changed. Podiatric medical school, at least at AZPOD, is at the same high standards as the best DO school in the country. Not only that, ALL qualifying DPM graduates obtain a residency position (most are 3 years long plus there are fellowships available).

I can't speak for all schools of podiatry but AZPOD students take the EXACT classes as the DO's and will be held to the EXACT standards in clinical rotations as the DO students. To say that AZPOD students aren't in "medical school" when they have the SAME exact classes as the DO students is a matter of ignorance. Not only that, but at AZCOM, the DO students have the summer off between 1st and 2nd year. AZPOD students must take podiatry courses at this time to be able to make up for the times they weren't able to do so in the normal school year (as a result of taking the same courses as AZCOM students).

The term "medical school" is really a convection of whether you go/went to a podiatric medical school, an allopathic medical school, or an osteopathic medical school.

Do AZPOD students end up learning about the whole body? Absolutely! As thoroughly as the most highly rated DO students in the country? Absolutely! Pelvic examinations? Absolutely! Neuroanatomy? Absolutely! You see my point. Should such a graduate be considered trained on the whole body and a legitimate physician? Absolutely.

Please take a look at my previous post about GPA's and MCAT scores for AZPOD matriculating students and you'll see that the numbers are good enough to get into MD and DO programs. We at AZPOD are CHOOSING this profession because it is an extraordinary profession (and the lifestyle is the best among surgical subspecialists).

Hope this helps to clarify a little (at least about AZPOD's high standards)

 

[N4658H]

Seriously, it doesn't matter who you are in these forums. To say you are a top doc at XX hospital means nothing. My opinion alone means nothing. This is why I validate my thoughts from various sources. Get a clue, man!

You are absolutely right. I will keep my opinions to myself. The fact is, however, I am going out to spend 180k on my education and in the end will call it whatever the hell I want. Will I be laughed at for calling myself a physician? I would never choose to surround myself with individuals who would laugh at another member of a medical team. True professionals do not let their ego come before patient health. Sorry if I offended you, but I just don’t trust online dictionaries such as wikipedia that are able to define “donkey punch” for medical advice.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Hmm.. Maybe I should rally my troops back in the dental forums to have our forums moved under medical students as well. I am going to the Boston University School of Dental Medicine, after all. And will be getting a Doctor of Dental Medicine degree. (and by the way, some dentists also have hospital priviledges at the hospital in which they have completed their general practice residency). 😉 It is just semantics, but no I did not go to medical school, I go to dental school. If I wanted to go to medical school, I certainly could have. I go to a school of dental medicine, just as podiatrists go to a school of podiatric medicine.

I am going to be a Dentist. I am proud of that. Could we start legislation to change our title to Dental Physician or Oral Physician? Sure. Am I a medical specialist of the oral cavity? yes. Can I prescribe medicine? Yes. Can I perform surgery? Yes. But why not be proud of the profession to which you have devoted your life and the origins and title of that profession? Calling yourselves by the broad term physicians, in my opinion just makes me think you are not proud of your title of Podiatrist.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I would do my homework before I made it public. Do you take one class w/ even one MD/DO? Are you required to enroll in a residency after you graduate? Will you work in a hospital when you are done? Will you be able to admit patients into a hospital when you are done?

My basis of calling pods physicians is the last question. I have always thought the men and women who wear long coats at the hospital are physicians. I guess I didn't get the memo that pods are not allowed in the physician parking lot and the physician’s lounge. Dang. They've got such good coffee.

As for being proud of being a podiatrist, I am very proud. Do you know many physicians? They usually are called by their specialty, i.e. cardiologist, orthopedist. This is the same for pods. We are physicians, but we go by our specialty, podiatrist.

Good luck in the war against gingivitis. 👍

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Funny Bill talks so nice when he posts on the pod forum but talks a lot of BS in the general residency forum. He shows no respect for any of us. Runnerfeet and yomama, I would just wash your hands from that conversation. They keep saying the same BS and they won't listen to the answers we give them. If you want to win this argument, email the administrators and have them add a link to the Pre-Pod forum in the pre-medical section. If they add a link, we win. No need to acknowledge those posters who talk out the end of their GI system.

 

[OOK]

Hmm.. Maybe I should rally my troops back in the dental forums to have our forums moved under medical students as well. I am going to the Boston University School of Dental Medicine, after all. And will be getting a Doctor of Dental Medicine degree. (and by the way, some dentists also have hospital priviledges at the hospital in which they have completed their general practice residency). 😉 It is just semantics, but no I did not go to medical school, I go to dental school. If I wanted to go to medical school, I certainly could have. I go to a school of dental medicine, just as podiatrists go to a school of podiatric medicine.

I am going to be a Dentist. I am proud of that. Could we start legislation to change our title to Dental Physician or Oral Physician? Sure. Am I a medical specialist of the oral cavity? yes. Can I prescribe medicine? Yes. Can I perform surgery? Yes. But why not be proud of the profession to which you have devoted your life and the origins and title of that profession? Calling yourselves by the broad term physicians, in my opinion just makes me think you are not proud of your title of Podiatrist.

I am curious! what is the curriculum of dental schools?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I am curious! what is the curriculum of dental schools?

Since this yahoo comes here and makes ignorant statements, I'd like to do the same.

They study flossing, advanced flossing, brushing 101, toothpaste, the history of gingivitis, understanding patients when you ask them a question with you hand in their mouth Part I and II, inflicting pain with and without drilling, and radiology.

 

[billclinton]

well, go ahead thinking what you want. It has already been proven that the majority of people (healthcare and nonhealthcare) see podiatrists as not being physicians and not going to medical school. You can go on thinking what you want, but the fact of the matter is you will always be wrong as so many people have pointed out. You guys give pod-wana-be's a bad name, because I know pods who are not ashamed of what they do and do not try to make others think they are physicians. But alas, the world would would be a sad place without you "wanksta's", as my son would say!

ANother thing, you guys really are in no place to knock on dentists. Their training is more grueling than your own!

 

[WildcatDMD]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I would do my homework before I made it public. Do you take one class w/ even one MD/DO? Are you required to enroll in a residency after you graduate? Will you work in a hospital when you are done? Will you be able to admit patients into a hospital when you are done?

My basis of calling pods physicians is the last question. I have always thought the men and women who wear long coats at the hospital are physicians. I guess I didn't get the memo that pods are not allowed in the physician parking lot and the physician’s lounge. Dang. They've got such good coffee.

As for being proud of being a podiatrist, I am very proud. Do you know many physicians? They usually are called by their specialty, i.e. cardiologist, orthopedist. This is the same for pods. We are physicians, but we go by our specialty, podiatrist.

Good luck in the war against gingivitis. 👍

Hahahahaha. Thank you. And the same with you and ingrown toenails (had to, the gingivitis comment required it). 😉 Very professional, Doc. You are certainly furthering your cause and credibility by cutting down professionals of the same level in healthcare.

Yes, many dental students take classes with medical students. Harvard and others take all the exact same classes as the medical students the first 2 years, plus the dental classes. BU just stopped taking some classes with the medical students last year. (I don't think this really matters at all though).

There are dental residencies that are hospital based: General practice residencies (GPR), pedodontics, and oral surgery. Any of these residencies will give the dentist the option of having hospital priviledges. Perhaps you should do some research as well. And these dental residents and attendings also wear long white coats at the hospitals (that is the uniform of a doctor in the hospital, not necissarily a physician). I am planning on doing a GPR, so, yes, I will be able to book an OR if I wished. So, those areguments for the title of physician are completely invalid.

I don't understand why you would want to be called solely by the term physician. I see nothing wrong with "podiatric physician," but honestly it does seem strange to want to be called just "physician". It is as stated many times in this thread ONLY a matter of semantics. However, it seems obvious to me that that term has a commonly accepted definition already. And that is of a medical doctor who went to medical school. Not podiatric medical school or a school of dental medicine, or veterinary medicine. The term medical school is commonly understood to mean an MD or DO school.

I understand that podiatrists and dentists are in fact practicing medicine and surgery, but that is not the same as being called a medical doctor. This doesn't mean that we are any less well trained, or knowledgeable about medicine when we graduate, it is just the specific title as it is applied in American English.

It is an issue of what you are trained to do. You will be trained to do podiatry and podiatric surgery. I will be trained to do dentistry and dental surgery. A medical doctor will be trained to do whatever specialty program he completes.

There is no reason to get pissed at me for what I'm saying. We are all working towards the same goal, the comprehensive treatment of patients through all the different branches of medicine as a whole. This argument is only one of the words we use to describe different practitioners. I'm just questioning why you are ignoring the common definition of the term "physician" by itself and calling yourself a "physician" without the qualifier "podiatric"? 👍

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

well, go ahead thinking what you want. It has already been proven that the majority of people (healthcare and nonhealthcare) see podiatrists as not being physicians and not going to medical school. You can go on thinking what you want, but the fact of the matter is you will always be wrong as so many people have pointed out. You guys give pod-wana-be's a bad name, because I know pods who are not ashamed of what they do and do not try to make others think they are physicians. But alas, the world would would be a sad place without you "wanksta's", as my son would say!

ANother thing, you guys really are in no place to knock on dentists. Their training is more grueling than your own!

I was wondering you claim that you worked in health care for 15 years. Are you a murse that got tired of being everyone's b#tch so you decided to go to med school? I can see why you've got an inferiority complex. Sorry. I hope you can wash that smell of bed pans off your hands.

Unless you like it. 😱

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Hahahahaha. Thank you. And the same with you and ingrown toenails (had to, the gingivitis comment required it). 😉 Very professional, Doc. You are certainly furthering your cause and credibility by cutting down professionals of the same level in healthcare.

Yes, many dental students take classes with medical students. Harvard and others take all the exact same classes as the medical students the first 2 years, plus the dental classes. BU just stopped taking some classes with the medical students last year. (I don't think this really matters at all though).

There are dental residencies that are hospital based: General practice residencies (GPR), pedodontics, and oral surgery. Any of these residencies will give the dentist the option of having hospital priviledges. Perhaps you should do some research as well. And these dental residents and attendings also wear long white coats at the hospitals (that is the uniform of a doctor in the hospital, not necissarily a physician). I am planning on doing a GPR, so, yes, I will be able to book an OR if I wished. So, those areguments for the title of physician are completely invalid.

I don't understand why you would want to be called solely by the term physician. I see nothing wrong with "podiatric physician," but honestly it does seem strange to want to be called just "physician". It is as stated many times in this thread ONLY a matter of semantics. However, it seems obvious to me that that term has a commonly accepted definition already. And that is of a medical doctor who went to medical school. Not podiatric medical school or a school of dental medicine, or veterinary medicine. The term medical school is commonly understood to mean an MD or DO school.

I understand that podiatrists and dentists are in fact practicing medicine and surgery, but that is not the same as being called a medical doctor. This doesn't mean that we are any less well trained, or knowledgeable about medicine when we graduate, it is just the specific title as it is applied in American English.

It is an issue of what you are trained to do. You will be trained to do podiatry and podiatric surgery. I will be trained to do dentistry and dental surgery. A medical doctor will be trained to do whatever specialty program he completes.

There is no reason to get pissed at me for what I'm saying. We are all working towards the same goal, the comprehensive treatment of patients through all the different branches of medicine as a whole. This argument is only one of the words we use to describe different practitioners. I'm just questioning why you are ignoring the common definition of the term "physician" by itself and calling yourself a "physician" without the qualifier "podiatric"? 👍

I am more than okay w/ podiatric physician that graduate from podiatric mediical school. If you have read this debate we could get that from many of the posters. I am proud to say that I am a podiatrist.

Also I did my homework, dentists are not required to do a residency if you don't want to do surgery/a specialty. 😀

 

[Dr.Nick]

well, go ahead thinking what you want. It has already been proven that the majority of people (healthcare and nonhealthcare) see podiatrists as not being physicians and not going to medical school. You can go on thinking what you want, but the fact of the matter is you will always be wrong as so many people have pointed out. You guys give pod-wana-be's a bad name, because I know pods who are not ashamed of what they do and do not try to make others think they are physicians. But alas, the world would would be a sad place without you "wanksta's", as my son would say!

ANother thing, you guys really are in no place to knock on dentists. Their training is more grueling than your own!

Hey everybody,

Did you just call us "wanksta's" ? Easy Snoop, I appreciate the 411 and I agree the training for dentists is more grueling. I'd be pissed to if I had to smell someone's bad breath all day. And we are not ashamed of our profession, we are just trying to get the recognition and respect that the few ignorant, such as yourself, don't give us.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Hey everybody,

Did you just call us "wanksta's" ? Easy Snoop, I appreciate the 411 and I agree the training for dentists is more grueling. I'd be pissed to if I had to smell someone's bad breath all day. And we are not ashamed of our profession, we are just trying to get the recognition and respect that the few ignorant, such as yourself, don't give us.

Bill reminds me of my grandfather tyring to talk to my cousins "Hey dog, What's up? Are you boys down with the jiggy? Word em up." He probably peed himself when 36 mafia won the oscar.

 

[WildcatDMD]

Since this yahoo comes here and makes ignorant statements, I'd like to do the same.

They study flossing, advanced flossing, brushing 101, toothpaste, the history of gingivitis, understanding patients when you ask them a question with you hand in their mouth Part I and II, inflicting pain with and without drilling, and radiology.

Again, I am not going to stoop to your level and make fun of your profession, my nail comment was far enough and only meant in good humor. And honestly my comment wasn't ignorant at all. I've enjoyed learning about podiatry from this forum. We've even had a lecture on diabetes related neuropathy and foot surgeries from a DPM at my school. I have nothing but respect for your profession. I have diminishing respect for you as a person and perhaps a professional, but that is a separate issue. I am only questioning this SEMANTIC issue, as it obviously strays from common English usage and seems to be motivated by other reasons than equality of medical practitioners.

As to the dental curriculum, there is already plenty of information on this site about that very topic. I'm not going to go into in in the pods forum. I will say that it is certainly as rigorous as medical school and podiatric school.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Again, I am not going to stoop to your level and make fun of your profession, my nail comment was far enough and only meant in good humor. And honestly my comment wasn't ignorant at all. I've enjoyed learning about podiatry from this forum. We've even had a lecture on diabetes related neuropathy and foot surgeries from a DPM at my school. I have nothing but respect for your profession. I have diminishing respect for you as a person and perhaps a professional, but that is a separate issue. I am only questioning this SEMANTIC issue, as it obviously strays from common English usage and seems to be motivated by other reasons than equality of medical practitioners.

As to the dental curriculum, there is already plenty of information on this site about that very topic. I'm not going to go into in in the pods forum. I will say that it is certainly as rigorous as medical school and podiatric school.

See ya. Take Bill w/ ya.

I have nothing but respect for dentist. You can't take a joke; well that's not my problem. I thought the comments were funny. If I posted on a dental forum and tried to raise hell, I would expect sarcasm too. I know that dental curriculum is tough. Getting in to dental school is much tougher than getting into a pod school but really you don't go into a bear's cave and poke the bear and expect the bear to ask you if you'd like a glass of lemonade or a pickle.

 

[WildcatDMD]

I am more than okay w/ podiatric physician that graduate from podiatric mediical school. If you have read this debate we could get that from many of the posters. I am proud to say that I am a podiatrist.

Also I did my homework, dentists are not required to do a residency if you don't want to do surgery/a specialty. 😀

Ok I don't know why you are trying to turn this into a pods vs. dental thread.... but, yeah, the fact that we aren't required to do a residency goes a long way to explain how rigorous dental school is. We must be ready to practice when we graduate, which is why dental students have many more classes than medical students and often spend a lot more time at school. And, by the way, New York state now requires a one year residency for general dentistry.

Now, back to the "physician" vs. "podiatrist" argument.

 

[WildcatDMD]

See ya. Take Bill with ya.

I have nothing but respect for dentist. You can't take a joke; well that's not my problem. I thought the comments were funny. If I posted on a dental forum and tried to raise hell, I would expect sarcasm too. I know that dental curriculum is tough. Getting in to dental school is much tougher than getting into a pod school but really you don't go into a bear's cave and poke the bear and expect the bear to ask you if you'd like a glass of lemonade or a pickle.

And Flossing 101 is a hard class, a$$wipe. A lot of bleeding. 😀

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

One thing I'd like to say to anyone else who thinks I am disrespectful. Podiatry is my life outside my family. If I said you kid was ugly would you be pissed. I expect respect for what we do. If you think you are respecting us by saying you don't go to medical school you not a physician, you deserve sarcasm. I give people what they give me; remember the golden rule.

I call them like I see them. For the most part, I make jokes if that offends you tough pooh, get a sense of humor. I don't believe in personal attacks unless I feel your disrespect has gone to far or if you come at me. I really don't like people who act two faced (Bill) and tell us that he means no disrespect in a pod forum but ridicules us in another forum.

That is all. And I love America.

USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Ok I don't know why you are trying to turn this into a pods vs. dental thread.... but, yeah, the fact that we aren't required to do a residency goes a long way to explain how rigorous dental school is. We must be ready to practice when we graduate, which is why dental students have many more classes than medical students and often spend a lot more time at school. And, by the way, New York state now requires a one year residency for general dentistry.

Now, back to the "physician" vs. "podiatrist" argument.

I read about the changing face of dentistry. It looks as if things are going to move towards more specialty and post-graduate education. I don't know your thoughts on the topic but I think it will be good for the dental world.

Finally we can win the war with gingivitis and move on to halitosis. I think that is the battle you guys should have been fighting all along.

 

[WildcatDMD]

One thing I'd like to say to anyone else who thinks I am disrespectful. Podiatry is my life outside my family. If I said you kid was ugly would you be pissed. I expect respect for what we do. If you think you are respecting us by saying you don't go to medical school you not a physician, you deserve sarcasm. I give people what they give me; remember the golden rule.

I call them like I see them. For the most part, I make jokes if that offends you tough pooh, get a sense of humor. I don't believe in personal attacks unless I feel your disrespect has gone to far or if you come at me. I really don't like people who act two faced (Bill) and tell us that he means no disrespect in a pod forum but ridicules us in another forum.

That is all. And I love America.

USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA.

Sounds good. I still contend that if you don't go to medical school you are not a physician. Just like if you don't go to dental school, you are not a dentist, or if you don't go to a school of podiatric medicine, you are not a podiatrist. This is a deadend argument, though. Call yourself whatever you want. If I have a foot problem, I'll call you Dr. (whatever), and I'll find you in the Podiatrist section of the yellow pages. Anyways.. off to cleaning teeth, or whatever you think dentists do. 😉

 

[ProdPod]

Sounds good. I still contend that if you don't go to medical school you are not a physician. Just like if you don't go to dental school, you are not a dentist, or if you don't go to a school of podiatric medicine, you are not a podiatrist. This is a deadend argument, though. Call yourself whatever you want. If I have a foot problem, I'll call you Dr. (whatever), and I'll find you in the Podiatrist section of the yellow pages. Anyways.. off to cleaning teeth, or whatever you think dentists do. 😉

Do you have any dentists in this position? http://www3.whdh.com/newsteam/?id=DBM1369

 

[billclinton]

Sounds good. I still contend that if you don't go to medical school you are not a physician. Just like if you don't go to dental school, you are not a dentist, or if you don't go to a school of podiatric medicine, you are not a podiatrist. This is a deadend argument, though. Call yourself whatever you want. If I have a foot problem, I'll call you Dr. (whatever), and I'll find you in the Podiatrist section of the yellow pages. Anyways.. off to cleaning teeth, or whatever you think dentists do. 😉

Yes, and this is how the majority of people think, including most podiatrists. It is only the ones with a chip on their back who argue otherwise.

I am glad to hear the opinions of other professionals are in-line with my own. Although, I think I may have put my opinion a little more bluntly at times.

So now I have shown polls in a MD/DO forum (80% in my favor), had posters from various professions, and cited internet sources that were written that represent the views of the general public (this is why I used wikipedia for those of you who had a hard time wondering why I picked that site), and I have cited sources from various highly regarded resources (webster's dictionary, to name one) that support the opinion I originally presented. However, let me guess- there will still be a pod that will not believe me. How funny!

This opinion, however, was firstly developed from many other people who came before me. After working in healthcare in 3 different areas of the country this was the general consensus among others.

You guys that don't understand remind of the kids who still pick their nose in public despite there mother's telling them it is wrong to do so. haha... sorry, I love these wacky comparisons.

Oh an by the way... the term "wanksta" was not popularized by snoop, but by a song by 50 cent title "wanksta".. a combination of wannabe-gansta.

By the way, I still hold podiatry to a high regard in the area of foot and ankle care.

 

[box29]

I've been reading most of the comments made on this thread and thought I'd stay out of it but I can't remember anyone saying anything comparing exactly the extent of what is emphasized during the clinical years.

I may just be presenting what has been argued in a different way, but anyhoo...semantics... I don't disqualify podiatrists in any way. I did attend SCPM but not in the clinical years.

Granted, the first 2 years are extremely similar, but I think the MAIN difference is that MD/DO are taught to be generalists before specialists, if they so choose. How is this different? It is very evident during the 3rd and 4th years. Some schools have more requirements in primary care rotations than others, but IMO, this is what I think most have been trying to say. For example, my current requirements for 3rd year rotations are as follows:

Family Medicine I - 1 month
Family Medicine II- 1 month
Internal Medicine I - 1 month
Internal Medicine II - 1 month
Pediatrics - 1 month
Psychiatry - 1 month
General Surgery - 1 month
General Surgery/Orthopedic Sx - 1 month
OB/GYN - 1month
Elective 1 - 1 month
Elective 2 - 1 month

Fourth year requirements are as follows:
Core Rotations – 5 Rotations Required at Affiliated sites
Primary Care 1 month
Medical Subspecialties 1 month
Specialty Options 1 month
Surgical Specialty 1 month
Acute/Critical Care 1 month

Non-Core Rotations – 5 Rotations Not Required at Affiliated Sites
Primary Care 1 month
Medical Subspecialties 1 month
Specialty Options 1 month
Elective - Primary Care 1 month
Elective - All Discipline Categories 1 month

Other
Vacation 1 month
Educational Review 2 weeks


I think this is where training diverges. MD/DO have a more general approach in learning medicine with the addition of electives and medical specialty rotations. The time spent in the primary care rotations (IM, FM, Peds) is greater and broader. Whereas, that of podiatric medicine becomes more focused.

So what, one may argue...but there is not enough time as PM student to have the same requirements and fulfill those of podiatric medicine and surgery. I am not arguing that one is less than the other either. The only difference is the depth and breadth of the primary care experience/exposure that one receives in "medical" school. It is blatantly evident that experience in the primary care setting is relatively unequal. Heck, primary care according to the National Health Services Core for scholarships requires MD/DO students to do a residency in IM, FM, Peds, Psych, OB/GYN. Additionally, most consider primary care medicine to be FM, IM, and Peds (some may include OB/GYN).

Anyways, from my perspective, DPMs have both the practice of the art of medicine and surgery, albeit for the lower extremity. It just so happens that podiatry students get to specialize early on. I'll quit my rambling and get back to studying for exams. Good luck to all!

 

[efs]

If I have a foot problem, I'll call you Dr. (whatever), and I'll find you in the Podiatrist section of the yellow pages.

If you'll go to your yellow pages, you'll actually find us listed under Physicians.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I've been reading most of the comments made on this thread and thought I'd stay out of it but I can't remember anyone saying anything comparing exactly the extent of what is emphasized during the clinical years.

I may just be presenting what has been argued in a different way, but anyhoo...semantics... I don't disqualify podiatrists in any way. I did attend SCPM but not in the clinical years.

Granted, the first 2 years are extremely similar, but I think the MAIN difference is that MD/DO are taught to be generalists before specialists, if they so choose. How is this different? It is very evident during the 3rd and 4th years. Some schools have more requirements in primary care rotations than others, but IMO, this is what I think most have been trying to say. For example, my current requirements for 3rd year rotations are as follows:

Family Medicine I - 1 month
Family Medicine II- 1 month
Internal Medicine I - 1 month
Internal Medicine II - 1 month
Pediatrics - 1 month
Psychiatry - 1 month
General Surgery - 1 month
General Surgery/Orthopedic Sx - 1 month
OB/GYN - 1month
Elective 1 - 1 month
Elective 2 - 1 month

Fourth year requirements are as follows:
Core Rotations – 5 Rotations Required at Affiliated sites
Primary Care 1 month
Medical Subspecialties 1 month
Specialty Options 1 month
Surgical Specialty 1 month
Acute/Critical Care 1 month

Non-Core Rotations – 5 Rotations Not Required at Affiliated Sites
Primary Care 1 month
Medical Subspecialties 1 month
Specialty Options 1 month
Elective - Primary Care 1 month
Elective - All Discipline Categories 1 month

Other
Vacation 1 month
Educational Review 2 weeks


I think this is where training diverges. MD/DO have a more general approach in learning medicine with the addition of electives and medical specialty rotations. The time spent in the primary care rotations (IM, FM, Peds) is greater and broader. Whereas, that of podiatric medicine becomes more focused.

So what, one may argue...but there is not enough time as PM student to have the same requirements and fulfill those of podiatric medicine and surgery. I am not arguing that one is less than the other either. The only difference is the depth and breadth of the primary care experience/exposure that one receives in "medical" school. It is blatantly evident that experience in the primary care setting is relatively unequal. Heck, primary care according to the National Health Services Core for scholarships requires MD/DO students to do a residency in IM, FM, Peds, Psych, OB/GYN. Additionally, most consider primary care medicine to be FM, IM, and Peds (some may include OB/GYN).

Anyways, from my perspective, DPMs have both the practice of the art of medicine and surgery, albeit for the lower extremity. It just so happens that podiatry students get to specialize early on. I'll quit my rambling and get back to studying for exams. Good luck to all!

I completely agree that DO/MD get a lot more systemic training than DPMs. Does this mean DPMs are not physicians? Or are they foot and ankle physicians?

 

[box29]

Yes, I do believe that DPMs are physicians in their own right but why should that matter to you or any other pod student out there. What I do not agree with is classification as a primary care doc. Essentially, podiatric medical school is specialization early on - which obviously is not general in any sense.

What matters is what one believes in himself/herself. At the end of the day, one has to live with himself/herself...my or anyone else's opinion is just that, an opinion.

What I was stating was the obvious difference of what popular belief is and the semantics that everyone is arguing about. The extent of systemic training and learning the management and algorhythms to dx and tx many diseases and disorders is what makes a primary care physician.

What is a cardiologist? A physician of the heart. What is an nephrologist? A physician of the kidneys...

 

[krabmas]

So, since we have beat the other topic to death and then some, I have a new query....

If we are not physicians then I guess we are surgeons. Because according to one poster's "facts" a physician is a doctor who does not perform surgery (or something like that). So since we perform surgery I guess we are surgeons.

Now here is my question...

Why do we not have a link in the surgery forums? we should have a link like the plastic surgeons do since podiatry is a subspecialty of surgery. 😀

I just wanted to stir the waters a little.

and if you get a chance look at the dr. 90210 posts in the surgical forums, pretty funny. BTW - I love that show.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Yes, I do believe that DPMs are physicians in their own right but why should that matter to you or any other pod student out there. What I do not agree with is classification as a primary care doc. Essentially, podiatric medical school is specialization early on - which obviously is not general in any sense.

What matters is what one believes in himself/herself. At the end of the day, one has to live with himself/herself...my or anyone else's opinion is just that, an opinion.

What I was stating was the obvious difference of what popular belief is and the semantics that everyone is arguing about. The extent of systemic training and learning the management and algorhythms to dx and tx many diseases and disorders is what makes a primary care physician.

What is a cardiologist? A physician of the heart. What is an nephrologist? A physician of the kidneys...

The primary care thing came from the definition of Medicare. It only has to do with a doctors ability to see patients without referrals. Any Billy Badass can make an appointment w/ a pod.

This thread was not started to argue over if a pod is a physician, it was started to discuss why they don't have a link in the pre-medical forum to pre-podiatry. Then people came in and said the podiatrists don't go to medical school and that is why they are not physicians.

My whole stand is we go to podiatric medical school, just like DOs go to osteopathic medical school, and MDs go to allopathic medical school. We have just specialized earlier in the porcess than MD/DOs. We are foot and ankle physician and surgeons.

 

[IlizaRob]

We are foot and ankle physician and surgeons.

What?? Thats rediculous! Everyone knows that you are a physician only if you do a one month rotation in psychiatry during your third year. And I dont care if you do it your fourth year or first year of residency either.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

What?? Thats rediculous! Everyone knows that you are a physician only if you do a one month rotation in psychiatry during your third year. And I dont care if you do it your fourth year or first year of residency either.

Rob be careful, if you make sardonic jokes people will cry and never post on the podiatry forum ever again.

 

[krabmas]

Rob be careful, if you make sardonic jokes people will cry and never post on the podiatry forum ever again.

Good... if we can't use logic and reason we will bully them away!

 

[IlizaRob]

Rob be careful, if you make sardonic jokes people will cry and never post on the podiatry forum ever again.

"And thaaaaatz....bad" (Emperor's New Groove). Some may not get that. I was feeding off a post in the general residency forum by someone who was saying pods arent physicians. Here was the reasoning:

QUOTE
"Have you ever delivered a baby? Did you rotate through psychiatry? How well trained are you to deal with end-of-life issues?"
END QUOTE

So feelgood, all you have to do is deliver a baby and your in. "YEEESS" (Nepolean Dynamite)

 

[jonwill]

I can't believe that this is still going! However, I have a solution. How about podiatrists refer to themselves however the hospital they are at classifies them? For 99% of the nation, that would be physicians/podiatric physicians with surgical services or ortho. Sound good? ALLLLLRIGHTY then In the end, whether you're an MD, DO, or DPM, you will all have the same hospital priveleges and you will all specialize and only remember the crap that you use everyday. Whether you did a psych or OBGYN rotation ten years ago will really make no difference. You will only be a "physician" in your chosen field.
There is a reason that 2200 people haved viewed this thread and only 180 have posted. NOBODY CARES

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I can't believe that this is still going! However, I have a solution. How about podiatrists refer to themselves however the hospital they are at classifies them? For 99% of the nation, that would be physicians/podiatric physicians with surgical services or ortho. Sound good? ALLLLLRIGHTY then In the end, whether you're an MD, DO, or DPM, you will all have the same hospital priveleges and you will all specialize and only remember the crap that you use everyday. Whether you did a psych or OBGYN rotation ten years ago will really make no difference. You will only be a "physician" in your chosen field.
There is a reason that 2200 people haved viewed this thread and only 180 have posted. NOBODY CARES

Jon going back to my original thought wouldn't like to see a link to pre-podiatry forum list in the pre-medical? That is the only issue this thread was supposed to be about.

 

[WildcatDMD]

Do you have any dentists in this position? http://www3.whdh.com/newsteam/?id=DBM1369

I don't know, and I don't intend to do a search to find out. Although a dentist would likely be as qualified. It would be a significant hit to his/her salary, though, to take such a position. 😉 Plus, why go to dental school and not practice dentistry? 😀

Ok, I enjoyed our discussion here. I see there is no changing your minds. I just think it is a misnomer to call yourself solely a "physician" without qualifying it with "podiatric".. but it's semantics, and if you want to be called "physician" be my guest. I will not call you that, though (and not because I don't respect pods just as much, it's just not the exact same thing, even if medicine is in the name of your doctorate, or school name--we all "practice medicine" as health care providers).

Good day. I enjoyed being "kicked" around a bit... Oh, yes, podiatry joke!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I don't know, and I don't intend to do a search to find out. Although a dentist would likely be as qualified. It would be a significant hit to his/her salary, though, to take such a position. 😉 Plus, why go to dental school and not practice dentistry? 😀

Ok, I enjoyed our discussion here. I see there is no changing your minds. I just think it is a misnomer to call yourself solely a "physician" without qualifying it with "podiatric".. but it's semantics, and if you want to be called "physician" be my guest. I will not call you that, though (and not because I don't respect pods just as much, it's just not the exact same thing, even if medicine is in the name of your doctorate, or school name--we all "practice medicine" as health care providers).

Good day. I enjoyed being "kicked" around a bit... Oh, yes, podiatry joke!

I think that all of us are okay being podiatric physicians. So we agree w/ you. I think what we don't like being told is that we don't go to medical school that only physicians go to medical school. If we are podiatric physicians then we go to podiatric medical school.

 

[jonwill]

Jon going back to my original thought wouldn't like to see a link to pre-podiatry forum list in the pre-medical? That is the only issue this thread was supposed to be about.

Ya, right, like that ever happens on SDN!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Ya, right, like that ever happens on SDN!

Well you never know, remember when you bet me that pigs wouldn't fly out of psionic_blast's rear end. That was one crazy IPMSA meeting.

 

[OOK]

I don't know, and I don't intend to do a search to find out. Although a dentist would likely be as qualified. It would be a significant hit to his/her salary, though, to take such a position. 😉 Plus, why go to dental school and not practice dentistry? 😀

Ok, I enjoyed our discussion here. I see there is no changing your minds. I just think it is a misnomer to call yourself solely a "physician" without qualifying it with "podiatric".. but it's semantics, and if you want to be called "physician" be my guest. I will not call you that, though (and not because I don't respect pods just as much, it's just not the exact same thing, even if medicine is in the name of your doctorate, or school name--we all "practice medicine" as health care providers).

Good day. I enjoyed being "kicked" around a bit... Oh, yes, podiatry joke!

you're right! remember eventhough we are fighting among most, we are all working for the good of our patients. I love dentistry. I just don't see myself doing that all my life. you probably love podiatry buy don't think you can do it all your life. I wish you good luck in your study. goodf luck with yhe board this year

 

[IlizaRob]

I don't know, and I don't intend to do a search to find out. Although a dentist would likely be as qualified. It would be a significant hit to his/her salary, though, to take such a position. 😉 Plus, why go to dental school and not practice dentistry? 😀

Ok, I enjoyed our discussion here. I see there is no changing your minds. I just think it is a misnomer to call yourself solely a "physician" without qualifying it with "podiatric".. but it's semantics, and if you want to be called "physician" be my guest. I will not call you that, though (and not because I don't respect pods just as much, it's just not the exact same thing, even if medicine is in the name of your doctorate, or school name--we all "practice medicine" as health care providers).

Good day. I enjoyed being "kicked" around a bit... Oh, yes, podiatry joke!

Unfortunately, on SDN words and arguments get tossed around like psionic blast's stained whitey tightys. I dont think any pod or pod student argued to be called a physician without "podiatric" in front of it. Not sure where you got that. Dentists rule though. You guys make serious bank. Good luck.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Unfortunately, on SDN words and arguments get tossed around like psionic blast's stained whitey tightys. I dont think any pod or pod student argued to be called a physician without "podiatric" in front of it. Not sure where you got that. Dentists rule though. You guys make serious bank. Good luck.

Am I the only one worried about the war against gingivitis? I heard they are going to have a draft and some of us may have to go to war. 😀

I think that everyone needs to start ending there posts w/ sacrasm. I did like the opening though.

 

[psionic_blast]

I don't know, and I don't intend to do a search to find out. Although a dentist would likely be as qualified. It would be a significant hit to his/her salary, though, to take such a position. 😉 Plus, why go to dental school and not practice dentistry? 😀

Ok, I enjoyed our discussion here. I see there is no changing your minds. I just think it is a misnomer to call yourself solely a "physician" without qualifying it with "podiatric".. but it's semantics, and if you want to be called "physician" be my guest. I will not call you that, though (and not because I don't respect pods just as much, it's just not the exact same thing, even if medicine is in the name of your doctorate, or school name--we all "practice medicine" as health care providers).

Good day. I enjoyed being "kicked" around a bit... Oh, yes, podiatry joke!

Pretty soon there we be more detists than lawyer, that is going to be a crazy day, dentists chasing down car, ambulances etc. just to get patients j/k. physician or podiatric physician isn't it really all the same. goods luck to you.

 

[IlizaRob]

Pretty soon there we be more detists than lawyer, that is going to be a crazy day, dentists chasing down car, ambulances etc. just to get patients j/k. physician or podiatric physician isn't it really all the same. goods luck to you.

Can we get a sticky here? This thread rocks. If only Bill would come back.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Can we get a sticky here? This thread rocks. If only Bill would come back.

Wow why don't you ask to have Saddam back in power

 

[WildcatDMD]

Pretty soon there we be more detists than lawyer, that is going to be a crazy day, dentists chasing down car, ambulances etc. just to get patients j/k. physician or podiatric physician isn't it really all the same. goods luck to you.

Haha, no, actually, the number of dentists relative to the population is declining due to many older dentists retiring and the number of spots in dental schools remaining about the same. The future is bright for graduating dentists. Plus, the need for dentists is almost universal... a lot of people just won't take our advice on how to NOT have to see us (we've been working hard with oral hygiene education and community water fluoridation to put ourselves out of business, but most people won't listen). I am doing a rotation at a community health center and I can't tell you how far beyond ridiculous people can take poor oral hygiene. Toothbrush??? What is that. I'm going to guess what you had for lunch last week. Yummy, is that a piece of a slim jim?? Saving it for later in that big a$$ hole in your tooth, huh? But I love it. 😀

Oh, and I've gotten over feeling bad about hijacking your podiatric physician thread since I just saw the same happened a while ago with the dentists thread in the premed healthcare issues area. I don't mind hangin' w/ the pods for a bit, I've been around too many dental people lately. It's nice to breath without hearing about interproximal lesions or MOD amalgams (not that I don't love dentistry 😉 ) Plus, I am getting in some great procrastination time from finishing up my projects from the rotation I've been on for 2 1/2 months.

 

[psionic_blast]

Haha, no, actually, the number of dentists relative to the population is declining due to many older dentists retiring and the number of spots in dental schools remaining about the same. The future is bright for graduating dentists. Plus, the need for dentists is almost universal... a lot of people just won't take our advice on how to NOT have to see us (we've been working hard with oral hygiene education and community water fluoridation to put ourselves out of business, but most people won't listen). I am doing a rotation at a community health center and I can't tell you how far beyond ridiculous people can take poor oral hygiene. Toothbrush??? What is that. I'm going to guess what you had for lunch last week. Yummy, is that a piece of a slim jim?? Saving it for later in that big a$$ hole in your tooth, huh? But I love it. 😀

Oh, and I've gotten over feeling bad about hijacking your podiatric physician thread since I just saw the same happened a while ago with the dentists thread in the premed healthcare issues area. I don't mind hangin' w/ the pods for a bit, I've been around too many dental people lately. It's nice to breath without hearing about interproximal lesions or MOD amalgams (not that I don't love dentistry 😉 ) Plus, I am getting in some great procrastination time from finishing up my projects from the rotation I've been on for 2 1/2 months.

Isn't it crazy that we all have a great deal of future jobs security because people refuse to take care of themself, brushing, diabetes, obesity etc.
In undergrad. a student had a presentation of whatevery the major bacteria that secrete acid that make cavities form, had been biogenetically altered at a school and instead of secreting acid it secreted ETOH instead, now that could put you out of business, but it will probably never see the light of day since it is a genetically modified organism.

 

[WildcatDMD]

you're right! remember eventhough we are fighting among most, we are all working for the good of our patients. I love dentistry. I just don't see myself doing that all my life. you probably love podiatry buy don't think you can do it all your life. I wish you good luck in your study. goodf luck with yhe board this year

I do like podiatry. I've been to a podiatrist a few times... 😀 I really did have abosolutely horrible ingrown toenails. He did whatever that surgery is called where you remove part of the nail on the lateral aspects so they never grow back (I hate not knowing any of the terminology, sorry). Never had another ingrown toenail. 👍 My big toenails aren't that pretty now, though, because they are narrower... and then I dropped a speaker on one of them... never been right since. There is scar tissue underneath the nail so that it is only attached to the medial half... kind of gross. If you can fix that, I'll trade your services for a crown or something. My podiatrist said he could fix it by permanantly removing the nail... NO. Need to find a cosmetic podiatrist. 😉

And I'm already done with Part I of the boards, thanks. BU students take them a semester early.

 

[IlizaRob]

Haha, no, actually, the number of dentists relative to the population is declining due to many older dentists retiring and the number of spots in dental schools remaining about the same. The future is bright for graduating dentists. Plus, the need for dentists is almost universal... a lot of people just won't take our advice on how to NOT have to see us (we've been working hard with oral hygiene education and community water fluoridation to put ourselves out of business, but most people won't listen). I am doing a rotation at a community health center and I can't tell you how far beyond ridiculous people can take poor oral hygiene. Toothbrush??? What is that. I'm going to guess what you had for lunch last week. Yummy, is that a piece of a slim jim?? Saving it for later in that big a$$ hole in your tooth, huh? But I love it. 😀

Oh, and I've gotten over feeling bad about hijacking your podiatric physician thread since I just saw the same happened a while ago with the dentists thread in the premed healthcare issues area. I don't mind hangin' w/ the pods for a bit, I've been around too many dental people lately. It's nice to breath without hearing about interproximal lesions or MOD amalgams (not that I don't love dentistry 😉 ) Plus, I am getting in some great procrastination time from finishing up my projects from the rotation I've been on for 2 1/2 months.

Ha, that is hilarious and yet so true. You guys have been writing prescriptions for dental freedom for years. People just dont get it. I guess its because they love you guys too much. Or maybe a biannual cleaning is easier than brushing every night. No one will ever know, dentists will just keep getting richer.

 

[WildcatDMD]

Isn't it crazy that we all have a great deal of future jobs security because people refuse to take care of themself, brushing, diabetes, obesity etc.
In undergrad. a student had a presentation of whatevery the major bacteria that secrete acid that make cavities form, had been biogenetically altered at a school and instead of secreting acid it secreted ETOH instead, now that could put you out of business, but it will probably never see the light of day since it is a genetically modified organism.

Strep. mutans is one of the main culprits that produce lactic acid that demineralizes teeth, yeah, they have made different mutant strains that are not cariogenic. They are also working on vaccines for the same bacteria. We will likely see this in the future. There is a lot more research to be done, and the funding is hard to come by (not usually a life-threatening disease).

Both the mutated bacteria and vaccine would need to be re-innoculated at intervals to be effective, though... so I'm guessing it would be the same ambivalent patients that have dental problems now that would miss their appointments for these possible preventive measures.

 

[psionic_blast]

probably right, lazy people, if the american public would just put forth a little extra effort this country could be amazing.

 

[billclinton]

Can we get a sticky here? This thread rocks. If only Bill would come back.

mondays are work days. but hey, i am starting to get bored of arguing about this. what else can we argue about? any pro-life or anti-stem cell research people out there?!?! hahahahahah