Think it Through (really)...

[SaveYourself]

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I have been seeing a lot of alarming questions on this website with reagrd to optometry as a profession. "What's the pay?" "What are the hours and benefits?" "Can I get in with substandard grades and coursework?" are many of the questions I see prospective students asking. Although these are important questions, they should have absolutely no bearing on your decision to be an optometrist.
I have been an optometrist with residency training for 9 years and make a six figure income with amazing benefits. I work 4 and a half days a week in a busy Optometry/Ophthalmology department and am ABSOLUTELY disappointed with my career choice. Like many of you, I wanted to be a doctor, was burnt out after undergrad and couldn't fathom going on another 7-10 year journey. Optometry sounded like a nice respectable profession that would allow me to be challenged and make decent money.
It is my intention to shed a little light on my experience and hopefully prevent you from making a snap decision about your future. I also hope to dispel a lot of the misinformation and flat out lies being perpetuated by the optometric community.
You must first ask yourself " Will I be okay with performing 15-20 identical eye exams each day, 5 days a week for 25 years?", because this is mainly what you will be doing. People will not be coming to you for ocular disease unless it is a relatively quick to take care of entity. The reason? Optometrists are generally not allowed on health plans. They are allowed on vision plans, but what do vision plans cover? An exam and glasses or contacts. So, do you really think a person will shell out private payment after private payment to you when their health coverage will take care of it? If they don't have health insurance, how long to you expect them to continue to pay you?
The AOA has gloified optometry, filling prospective doctors with fantastic tales of ocular disease treatment and management of all sorts of visual problems. Unless you are in a special niche practice or an optometric college, you will be: 1. Doing annual eye checkups/exams, 2. Refracting, and 3. Doing contact lens fits. Period. Do not believe you will me managing glaucoma all day, dry eye, blepharitis, diabetic retinopathy or ARMD. You will not be. If you think you will be managing amblyopia frequently, you are mistaken again. The reason? Basically anything from the iris on back, you are not permitted to treat (except glaucoma in some states). Ulcers, dry eye and blepharitis are fine, but if you think these patients are going to shell out dollar after dollar instead of letting their health insurance handle it, you are mistaken. Retail is even worse; many of these patients just don't have the money for follow up care.
Second of all is the respect issue. If you are going to optometry school to shave years off and still have "Dr." in front of your name. Don't do it. You are not considered a doctor by any physician, nurse, health insurance plan or even the federal government. You are classified as a mid level provider. Guess who else are considered mid level providers? Nurses and PA's, and guess what? They go to school less than we do and get to do as much if not more than we do. The only people who will consider you a doctor are people who don't know the difference between an optometrist and an ophthalmologist. Other than that it is snickers and disrespect behind your back. You call yourself doctor, but can't even order a FBS unless you again are in a niche practice, working under an ophthalmologist, or at a VA. This is the truth and anyone telling you any different is lying to you or trying to glorify what they do. There is much insecurity and glorification in this field and I understand why. Imagine dedicating 8-9 years of your life only to be restricted from doing a lot of what you learned in school; Imagine being on the same plane as nurses and PA's and making less money while going to school longer. But hey, you get to call yourself a doctor right?
I understand many of you are at the end of undergrad with a degree that isn't worth much without continuing your education. I was in the same boat. If your original intention was to become a physician but you don't think you will get into medical school, beef up your resume. Consider out of the country medical schools, take upper division science courses and do not quit until you are in some accredited medical school. Once you are in, you can learn as much as you are willing. Do not take the consolation prize. For those of you who will have no problem getting into medical school, go to medical school. An M.D. opens up so many more doors than an O.D. degree. Research, administration, many subspecialties, teaching, consulting, you name it. Why not have more opportunities? An O.D. allows you to do a few things: Examine eyes, and teach at one of the 16 optometry schools in the country. Chances are you will not be doing a lot of research for a major comapny, or consulting for anyone. There is nothing worse than being 15 years in as an optometrist and wishing you would have gone to medical school. By then it is realistically too late. Make the right decision now.
I am so passionate about this that if I can prevent one of you from making a bad decision that could cost you up to 200,000 in student loan debt, I'm willing. If you are planning on going to ICO, be prepared for 175,000-200,000 in debt when your starting salary will be around 85,000/ year. That corresponds to bi weekly pay after taxes of 2200-2400 each pay period and 1,000.00 of that is coming right off the top for your loans. So you are left with 3800/month and haven't paid your rent, car payment or eaten yet. If money isn't an issue, then just make sure you will like doing EYE EXAMS all day long, becuase that is what you are going to be doing.
I haven't even gone into the frustration you will endure when you see so many other older OD's with embarassing diagnoses and lack of knowledge. It's not their fault, but you will be grouped with them no matter what you think. Think about how you will like refracting an 85 year old alzheimers patient or the anxious depressed personality who can't decide the difference between the choices you give them. Think about getting 20 minutes per patient and they show up 20 minutes late in a wheelchair. Think about poorly hygienic people on Medicaid that don't show for their appointments and don't appreciate the free glasses they are getting from taxpayers. Think about CL patients who show up for their CL evaluation without their CL's in. Don't spend your career trying to earn respect, becuase you will not get it from the people you want it from the most. Look into careers with a little variety, like medicine, vet med or do something altogether different. You will be much happier and much more fulfilled.
Finally, do not let the pressure of not getting into medical school force you into a career that you would not do if you could get into medical school with more effort. Although you might see money and benefits as stable, the truth is, private optometric practice is being crushed by retail competition. Last year, the % of optometric private practices that closed their doors increased by 35%. Employment outside of private practice is scarce and retail is an embarassment. Do you really want to go to school for eight years (9 w/ residency) and be working in a shopping mall next to Pretzel Time?? or putting your lab coat on at WalMart? or Costco? You will feel like a loser unless you have no self respect. People will buy a hot dog and then pop in for an eye exam; please think hard if you think you will be managing their glaucoma in that setting.

 

[nlerias]

Not all of us are wannabe medical physicians. Why are you feeling like a loser? How is a career of optometry any less respectable than, I dunno, an accountant or computer programmer, or engineer or any other job that most people have.

You say you don't get the respect you want but you also say you make a six figure income with amazing benefits. Isn't that something to be proud of?

 

[SaveYourself]

It's less respectable because a computer programmer doesn't try to convince people that he is a rocket scientist. Daily you have to prove yourself and shake the stigma that the only reason you are doing this is becuase you couldn't get into medical school. Down the road you will see that the money and benefits lose their luster. Hopefully you'll want to be challenged daily and make a huge impact on people's lives. If money and benefits are an accomplishment to you, then by all means, do it. I just hope 5 years from now, when you have done your 5,000th refraction, you don't say, "That guy on the website was right. " Think it through, know what you are getting yourself into and don't believe the AOA. It is not like school-remember that.

 

[Oogilily]

On the flip side, some of us don't want to be MD's so it's not that big of a deal. If you really want to be an MD and have this most amazing scope of practice blah blah, then go be an MD, optometry isn't for you. I think it is pretty obvious. If you are worried about a big debt and not as much pay as an MD, then go be an MD. If you want enough money for a 7 series BMW for you and your wife, go be an MD. It still surprises me that people are still making a big deal about this. This issue has been beaten to death on this forum. Of course think your career choice through. Learn all you can about it, you'll be doing it for the rest of your life. To me this is just common sense stuff. And I hope that people understand that there are plenty of happy people in optometry. I'm sure there are loads that aren't happy with their choice, but at the same time there are loads that are fine. You have to decide what works for you and stick with it. So I think a rant like this works for the person ranting. There are probably many many people that have this same rant. And I don't think that people that hate optometry understand why some people might actually like it.

The whole point I think is that your happiness depends on your personality and what you want out of life and your job. If you have realistic expectations about optometry, and know the reality of it (i.e. commercial is taking over, you have huge debt, you won't make much, people won't respect you, nobody has insurance for it....etc. etc.) it will be ok. Some docs just aren't happy doing refractions all day, others are perfectly happy doing that. I don't feel like I'm selling myself short in my choice as an optometrist, I just really really dislike the idea of me being an MD (and yes I could have made it into med school just fine). So for me optometry school was a great choice.


And really, nobody uses everything they learned in school. Most people I know learn everything about their job on the job. That's where you get the real education anyways. I think you could get sick of doing any job. I did commercial painting for MANY years and I can tell you that it has a ton more variety than optometry (no it's not just putting paint on a wall). But even with all of the variety and always trying to figure out new things, it gets old too. Any career can get old after 10 years. It's just the nature of work.

Learn exactly what optometry is, especially in the state where you want to practice, and weigh your options carefully before making such a big investment! You better make sure this is what you want to do. That should be your take home message from the post above.

 

[SaveYourself]

Well said. Do it for the right reasons; Not becuase it makes a lot of money or has a title or becuase it's a close second to what you really wanted to do. Do it becuase you actually think you want to refract, fit CL's and check for disease. My problem is not with optometry, it is with the misrepresentaion of the AOA and optometric colleges in general. You spend 4 years learning what you could probably learn in 2 and incur quite a bit of debt doing it. I also think students working in their optometry school clinic eventually think that it is a good representation of work on the outside. That is misleading. These are very specialized niche clinics and only a handful exist in the entire country. Like the poster above said. Just do your homework. Don't think you know what optometry is, know what it is. It might be different from what you were led to believe.

 

[Brightereyez]

I've worked at both retail and a private office and i don't think any of the OD's ever had to prove to anyone that they're not med school rejects and they didn't chose optometry just to be called "Doctors". When i first came across optometry i certainly had my doubts about its future/salary/job security etc.. but after gaining experience in the field (shadowing/working) i realized that it suits me really well despite of some of the negative aspects that we constantly hear about...it is what is!

 

[SaveYourself]

It's good that you have gained experience in the field. I also remmeber my excitement when I shawdowed my optometrist. I thought it was cool that he used so many devices and got to look at the fundus. Just remember, watching one eye exam or even days worth of exams is not the same as seeing 15 eye exams /day, five days a week, for 20 years. I am simply asking prosepective students to REALLY know what they are doing before they invest the time and money.

 

[Brightereyez]

I'm not overwhelmed with excitment when i see eye exams...it's just something i see myself doing for a living. I never had the passion to be an MD. I did consider dentisry when i first started college but realized it's definitly not for me and i don't see how other health professions such as pharm dent or PT can be more exciting and offer new adventures everyday. Your assumption is that all of us OD applicants were at somepoint MD hopefulls, and for whatever reason we have decided to settle for OD, but i think you might be wrong. Everyone i know who's intersted in optometry has other reasons for chosing opt, and for many it's been their first choice from the getgo.

 

[BlueEyeDoc]

I'm sorry that you regret your decision to pursue optometry, and also that you feel your chosen profession is inferior to other medical careers. I can appreciate that you took the time to write your advice to the pre-optometry world, but I feel as though you're diminishing the importance of the optometry profession. I would hope that those who are going into optometry are not out to prove themselves to all the MD's, DO's, nurses, PA's, and physical therapists out there who believe that optometrists are not real doctors. The kind of respect you are looking to recieve from other professionals is the kind you should have for yourself and your education. The practice I work at diagnoses and treats several ocular diseases, not just glaucoma. I don't hear any of the doctors I work with complaining about doing refractions day after day. I don't think anyone going to optometry school has expectations of seeing vastly different ocular scenarios every day. Refraction is one of the major components of an eye exam, and people coming to see an optometrist are there for eye exams. I strongly agree with your encouragement for people who wanted to go to medical school, to go to medical school. Optometry in no way should be a "plan B", and I think that has been said several times on this forum.

 

[Absolute Vision]

You remind me of some of my friends who are now in the mid-30s who regret their careers and wished they had done more investigations into their future careers when they were in school. The sad part is that you are probably in too deep now to quit, and to be strong enough to pursue another career that you are passionate about. Obviously, it seems like you wanted to be an MD, but couldn't get in. In contrast, I have friends and family who are MDs who wished they had never pursued medicine…they are like you…they make a good income, but they hate their careers. If you hate it so much then quit…do something else besides just rant and rave and complain about how your profession didn't meet your expectations. Your post makes it seems like the MD route is the best one, but you have to realize like any other profession it has its advantages and disadvantages. Everyone has their own reasons for wanting to pursue a certain career path…hopefully they have researched and investigated it enough that they are making a well informed decision.

 

[SaveYourself]

You bring up many excellent points and your argument is well written and well planned out. I agree with you about finding that perfect fit for yourself and definitely agree about indoctrination. Our generation's parents viewed physicians as walking gods and really steered children in that direction becuase of the respect, money, lifestyle and perceived happiness without really knowing much about the career. It was "Greener grass mentality".

Fortunately, I am in a situation where I am currently able to be back in school and study for a second career. I am in the process of doing this now and am really enjoying it. Becuase I am enjoying it so much, I look back and see all of the years and money put into optometry. I wonder about how I am loving and excelling in my new studies and what could have been had I chose this road when I was entering undergrad. However, the only way to obtain wisdom is to "walk the path". I wouldn't have known about optometry without becoming an optometrist, but I wouldn't have known about my new career if I hadn't gone after it. I guess I'm just trying to save some other young students who might be doing it for the wrong reasons some time, money and heartache.

A big part of my statement should be interpreted as: "You might be okay with it today; you might be okay with it five years from now; but as you get older, you might not be and with the debt and time invested, it might be really hard to get out. You'll then look at the degree and see that you are qualified to only do one thing. I also want to stress that school should be fun. If you hate science classes but view them as a necessary evil to get the job you really want, you should look long and hard at your decision. If you've always been really interested in modern art, but didn't pursue it because it doesn't pay well, again, look at your decision.

There is a premium on happiness in today's society. Many people are unhappy and I think the big reason is they are not doing things they are really passionate about or that interest them. They picked things for practical reasons and that philosophy will burn you out quickly.

 

[OptometryG4]

You are so spoiled and a sad person. My sympathy.

 

[74ponderosa]

There are many points being made, the most salient of which is "do your homework", investigate all your options. My point is that you owe it to yourself.

I am a career changer and I work 2 jobs: one with an ophthalmologist (who thinks highly of OD's) and the other with an OD – in separate practices and not affiliated. In doing so, I have learned that in no way do I want to be an MD. Case in point was Wednesday night, I got home at 9:30 pm from a day working with the ophthalmologist when our first patient was 8 am. We saw 57 patients (you do the math) that day (which is abnormal), however, we had now choice and it was the way the day worked out. The MD I work with his highly respected, and internationally-renowned in his sub-specialty. As a result his services, both clinical and surgical, are in extremely high demand. And that's great. He drives a Mercedes. That's great. But on Wednesday as we worked into the night, his daughter kept calling him see when he would be home to help her with her homework. And he had to keep telling her that he would be home "a little later." And it kept getting later, and later, and later. And he kept apologizing to her. That's something that I don't want in my profession. I don't want it to interfere with my homelife. I want to be able to be home with my family, to have mostly regular work hours. I personally, don't want to be at the constant beck and call of the patients, who have the doctor paged for some pretty silly reasons/requests. Also, personally I can go without the Mercedes. From my experience, the optometrist that I work with (who, by the way, also drives a Mercedes) is able to be home with her kids, doesn't have on-call service, and genuinely enjoys her work – as does the ophthalmologist. But this is just one reasons, among many others, why optometry is the better fit for me. (Any one who wants to know more about why I prefer the "job" aspects of optometry can PM me.) I know this because I feel like I've done a thorough job researching both careers.

So it is in your best interest, as everyone here has been saying, to research your options, to figure out what you want to do, and what's important to you in your life. And its never to late to do that. Regardless of what you choose. It sounds cliche, but it's the truth, do what is going to make you happy. Accept nothing less.

PS - OptometryG4, it's spoiled (only 1 L) and sYmpathy. Disrespectful comments get you nowhere.

 

[blysssful]

PS - OptometryG4, it's spoiled (only 1 L) and sYmpathy. Disrespectful comments get you nowhere.

Especially when they make the person making them look like an idiot

 

[blysssful]

SaveYourself,
I read your post when you initially posted it. Though you didn't present me with any information that I wasn't already aware of, the post really, really got to me. I felt the urge to respond.

As someone who is currently going through the application process for optometry, of course I'm going to wonder how happy I am with my choices down the line. It would be ludicrous not to have some questions or concerns about what very well may be a lifelong commitment. At times I do wonder whether I would be more content pursuing a medical degree (or any other type of degree, for that matter). And yes, your vehement opinion on the profession made me stop and assess whether I was making the right decision for me. This part of my reaction was probably what you were looking for. Making people really stop to think about their decisions, especially at the point where they may be able to "save themselves" from a poorly thought out plan, is something that can be appreciated. Especially when not enough people have the balls to play devil's advocate.

After I really took the time to assess where I stood, I realized something extremely important. I want to have a career that I can be proud of. What that means to me is that while I truly do look forward to being a practicing optometrist, I also look forward to being able to have a balanced life. I look forward to being able to spend as much time as possible with my family and friends-- actually BEING THERE for them. Always working, always being on call, always being stressed out, always prioritizing work before family... believe me, I've grown up with that reality, and there is no pride in it. You're looking for accolades for achievement? Great, but at what cost?

But maybe a disappointed family isn't an issue for you. You mentioned respect quite a bit. Out of curiosity, whose respect is more important to you? The respect that you may or may not earn from your colleagues or others in health care, or your own self respect? You seem to be under the impression that a certain degree or title grants automatic respect, and that, in my opinion, is quite sad. Respect is something that should be earned, not automatically granted because of the MD after your signature (or lost because of the lack thereof). Something my father always told me: Respect yourself and others will follow suit. Maybe in reality that's too optimistic, but the opposite is definitely true.

Another thing you mentioned: the monotony of optometry. Doing the same thing day in, and day out. I can completely understand how that would be irritating, especially for someone who longs for an exciting career. The thing is, many if not most specialized careers are like this. Think of the ophthalmologist who focuses on performing LASIK day in and day out, or the family practitioner who does physicals all day, or the anesthesiologist who delivers anesthesia and sits and watches a monitor for fluctuations*. Is this more exciting for you? An MD degree does not equate to a fulfilling career for someone who is never satisfied.

Maybe I'm simply misinterpreting your bottom line, but the impression that I got after reading your initial post is that you really believe that those who are entering the field of optometry are doing so because they're not good enough for medicine (or don't think they're good enough). I can only speak for myself, but I know this not to be the case. I'm not too lazy to do the work required for medical school and I strongly believe that I am intelligent enough to be just fine in medical school-- if that was my chosen route. However, it's not, because going to med school and becoming an MD/DO would be my consolation prize. Maybe you're right and I would end up with a more fulfilling career, but at a cost I'm not willing to give: a fulfilling and balanced life.

I do understand your apprehension for people who are entering ANY field without doing the proper research beforehand, or for those who gave up on their first choice because it didn't take the first time, or would require too much effort. For your sake, I wish you had the foresight to understand that settling for second place is a recipe for bitterness (same goes for everyone else who puts themselves in this position). My bottom line: making the assumption that the majority of people who are going into optometry are doing so because they couldn't make it into medical school is insulting. Degrade yourself all you like, but next time please think twice about making blanket statements about the aptitude of people you know nothing about.


*I'm not suggesting that these procedures are the only procedures that these professions are responsible for; only that within most professions there is at least some degree of monotony.

 

[Tippytoe]

I don't post much but this topic interests me.

I regularly browse studentdoctor.net and I don't think I ever see practicing clinicians of other professions actively discouraging students.

Not even in the podiatry forum (there may be but I just haven't seen it). I even viewed the pharmacist forum and no such conversation was found.

I wonder why this is? Could we know something that students don't?? You guys are very fortunate to have all this info available on the internet. Back in the early 1990's when I was applying, there was no net and little info.

For the record, I woudn't do it again despite a good income and lifestyle. Just not challenging enough. For me, optometry is about 40% positive and 60% negative.

But then again, you'd have to beat me to be a pharmacist and have to stand behind a Walgreen's counter all day and night giving old people grocery bags full of meds.

 

[SaveYourself]

The poster above makes great points and this forum is very helpful. I wish I would have had it to help me make an informed decision instead of believing AOA propaganda. It's also why I feel it's good to discuss and give prosepctive students feedback. People have been very honest and open on this forum, which is great for students who might be "on the fence" regarding their decision. I'm in the same boat and definitely would not do it again. That's why I am encouraging students to sit down and really think about their passions and what they love to do. That's where they shold be directing their energies. It might be tough when you are this far in a science degree, but better to stop now if it is not for you, rather than after optometry school, residency and huge student loan debt.

 

[SaveYourself]

SaveYourself,
I read your post when you initially posted it. Though you didn't present me with any information that I wasn't already aware of, the post really, really got to me. I felt the urge to respond.

As someone who is currently going through the application process for optometry, of course I'm going to wonder how happy I am with my choices down the line. It would be ludicrous not to have some questions or concerns about what very well may be a lifelong commitment. At times I do wonder whether I would be more content pursuing a medical degree (or any other type of degree, for that matter). And yes, your vehement opinion on the profession made me stop and assess whether I was making the right decision for me. This part of my reaction was probably what you were looking for. Making people really stop to think about their decisions, especially at the point where they may be able to "save themselves" from a poorly thought out plan, is something that can be appreciated. Especially when not enough people have the balls to play devil's advocate.

After I really took the time to assess where I stood, I realized something extremely important. I want to have a career that I can be proud of. What that means to me is that while I truly do look forward to being a practicing optometrist, I also look forward to being able to have a balanced life. I look forward to being able to spend as much time as possible with my family and friends-- actually BEING THERE for them. Always working, always being on call, always being stressed out, always prioritizing work before family... believe me, I've grown up with that reality, and there is no pride in it. You're looking for accolades for achievement? Great, but at what cost?

But maybe a disappointed family isn't an issue for you. You mentioned respect quite a bit. Out of curiosity, whose respect is more important to you? The respect that you may or may not earn from your colleagues or others in health care, or your own self respect? You seem to be under the impression that a certain degree or title grants automatic respect, and that, in my opinion, is quite sad. Respect is something that should be earned, not automatically granted because of the MD after your signature (or lost because of the lack thereof). Something my father always told me: Respect yourself and others will follow suit. Maybe in reality that's too optimistic, but the opposite is definitely true.

Another thing you mentioned: the monotony of optometry. Doing the same thing day in, and day out. I can completely understand how that would be irritating, especially for someone who longs for an exciting career. The thing is, many if not most specialized careers are like this. Think of the ophthalmologist who focuses on performing LASIK day in and day out, or the family practitioner who does physicals all day, or the anesthesiologist who delivers anesthesia and sits and watches a monitor for fluctuations*. Is this more exciting for you? An MD degree does not equate to a fulfilling career for someone who is never satisfied.

Maybe I'm simply misinterpreting your bottom line, but the impression that I got after reading your initial post is that you really believe that those who are entering the field of optometry are doing so because they're not good enough for medicine (or don't think they're good enough). I can only speak for myself, but I know this not to be the case. I'm not too lazy to do the work required for medical school and I strongly believe that I am intelligent enough to be just fine in medical school-- if that was my chosen route. However, it's not, because going to med school and becoming an MD/DO would be my consolation prize. Maybe you're right and I would end up with a more fulfilling career, but at a cost I'm not willing to give: a fulfilling and balanced life.

I do understand your apprehension for people who are entering ANY field without doing the proper research beforehand, or for those who gave up on their first choice because it didn't take the first time, or would require too much effort. For your sake, I wish you had the foresight to understand that settling for second place is a recipe for bitterness (same goes for everyone else who puts themselves in this position). My bottom line: making the assumption that the majority of people who are going into optometry are doing so because they couldn't make it into medical school is insulting. Degrade yourself all you like, but next time please think twice about making blanket statements about the aptitude of people you know nothing about.


*I'm not suggesting that these procedures are the only procedures that these professions are responsible for; only that within most professions there is at least some degree of monotony.

I appreciate your thoughtful reply and am happy to hear that you are enthusiastic about your choice. I wish you nothing but the best in your career. I'm sure you have spent a lot of time shadowing or even working with an optometrist for quite some time. If that is the case and you know this is for you, then go for it. Unfortunately, many students do not do this. They make a checklist of what they want and go into the program without actually engaging in the day to day activities of our profession. This is dangerous becuase a nice lifestyle is tempting to a student without much money. After the gold loses it's luster and all they have is their profession, I just hope they are not stuck. For that will cause despair if they can't pursue a second career as I am doing. I've just seen too many checklists made focusing on money, time, etc. Notice how "I am passionate about refractions and eyecare" doesn't seem to be present on their checklist much. This should be the number one reason for entering the profession. When I don't see this, I just hope that people aren't taking a pragmatic approach to a major life decision, because it could be costly.

 

[KHE]

The poster above makes great points and this forum is very helpful. I wish I would have had it to help me make an informed decision instead of believing AOA propaganda. It's also why I feel it's good to discuss and give prosepctive students feedback. People have been very honest and open on this forum, which is great for students who might be "on the fence" regarding their decision. I'm in the same boat and definitely would not do it again. That's why I am encouraging students to sit down and really think about their passions and what they love to do. That's where they shold be directing their energies. It might be tough when you are this far in a science degree, but better to stop now if it is not for you, rather than after optometry school, residency and huge student loan debt.

So what would you be doing then if you could do it all over again?

 

[SaveYourself]

Actually, I am doing it all over again and am pursuing a second career in Law with an emphasis in business. I really find it interesting, enjoyable and feel it will at least open quite a few more doors and give me more options.

 

[Taven7755]

To begin with, I am always troubled by the general tone of many of the discussions on this board. Many times, the thread covers one of two topics: Why optometry is not sunshine and lollipops...Do I have a shot/App questions. There is very little actual discussion of issues in the field, and many threads devolve into a Springer episode at that moment just before someone wheels a chair across the stage and slips on his homemade brass knuckles...It is all rather sad and tiresome.

As for myself, I am exposing myself to two very different areas of medicine. I work 30 hrs a week plus at a local OD office, as well as in a trauma unit in the hospital.Here is what I have found:

The OD practice is made up of four doctors of varying experience. One graduated only five years ago. Without question, all of them rave about the decisions that they have made. Here is a typical day for them: Come in at about 8:30 and work until 11:30, reading up on patient histories in between appointments. Go to lunch, come back at 1, and wokr until 4:30. Get in a nice (but by no means extravagant) vehicle, and leave work behind until the next morning for the most part, outside of business work. As for monotony, the office I work for gets roughly 20% of its patients as medical issues. We DO NOT give CEE's all day. We butter our bread off of the people that do. I understand that the situation they are in takes work and luck, but to me, I would love that life. (I am accepted into school, and with my boss owning 6 offices in the area, he has mentioned several times about my buying in when I get out). 😀 This is me pumped

The trauma surgeon that I follow (I got the job to apply to med school, and was accepted to one last spring) has a very different day. He arrives at 5:30 in the morning, to be ready for the 6am shift change. We works until at least 4pm, and will double (get out at 10pm) at least twice a week. He is on call most all the time, and must put in vacation time 8 months in advance, which must be approved and is rarely done. His job is about as exciting as you can get, if at times depressing, and he is one of the most respected men in the hospital...He also makes outragous money, and owns about 6 cars. (one of which is a alfa romero).
Here is the hard part...many people that went into his area are not nearly as high up. They work more fours (and my boss never does less than 55 or so) and make MUCH less money. A doctor I see most everyday has not been out of the state in seven years. My boss had his request to leave after the new year (for four days!) turned down. He put it in last March. Maybe this is just our hospital, but this is what I see.

I am going with optometry right now. The five year grad I will see in a few hours took a two week vacation to Australia last month (obviously we needed to fill in, but he does get it when he wants it). He makes money, much less that the MD, but actually has time and the ability to enjoy himself. I don't care in the slightest bit what "other drs think of me being an OD" or any of that chest pounding alpha-male posturing. Anyone that does is a person I sincerely feel sorry for. I am more competitive as a med student than and OD (340 OAT vs 36 MCAT, 3.3 GPA as biology/chemical engineering double major). I am trying to get info and have made my choice. The idea is quality of life. This "respect" junk is infantile insecure *****ic rubbish. 👎

 

[Tippytoe]

I was in the same boat as many of the student posters here. I worked many jobs (including the military) prior to OD school. Being an OD is certainly better than any of the minimum wage jobs I had.

My goal and mindset in the early 90's was
1) Get a good job.
2) Make good money.
3) Being a doctor ( DPM, DDS, OD, MD, DC) sounds nice and fullfills the first two points. Bingo.

I'll explain my views in terms of being a clinician (and not necessarily an OD). Just about any type of medical field you go in to is going to be tough because, after all, we deal with the public and insurance companies will be your real boss, no matter who you are.

People will:

1. Expect you to solve their problem in 10 minutes or less with no effort on their part.

2. Expect you to be the absolute expert on their insurance plan.

3. People will turn violent when you demand they pay their $30 copay.

4. You WILL be sued. It's almost guaranteed. If your lucky, it will just a letter from someones brother-in-law attorney demanded a contact lens Rx even though you never fit the person in contacts.

5. People will steal anything that is not nailed down in your office, including clocks, magazines, lamps, lenses, glasses, CLs, staplers, etc...

6. Patients WILL leave you in heartbeat for a $5 better deal down the street.

7. Your colleagues will stab you in the back any chance they get.

8. The employees you hire will be rejects from McDonalds. You will not be able to afford quality employees after paying all of your overhead. You will take them off the street, train them to be an opt tech, they will work for you for 6 months and then leave to go to a better paying OMD (remember they make 3x as much as ODs therefore can pay better). You gave them free training and possibly certification and they don't care. There is no loyalty among employees today.

9. Your employees will do the absolute minimum necessary. After all, if they had your drive, they'd be a doctor, right. A big part of your life will be catering to , recruiting, training and firing employees.

10. You WILL lose patients to OMDs. Family doctors and pediatricians (big gatekeepers) will steer their diabetic and other patients to local OMDs---even if they have a 6 month wait and you could see them today.

11. As an OD, you will have to hussle like you've never done in your life. Patients don't just show up to a new OD..........they must be 'found'.

12. 70% of what you will do on your exam sheet is for gov't auditors. Ex. "Do you use illegal drugs?". You'd gotta waste time and effort asking silly stuff like this.

13. In the past 10 years, there has been a huge growth-spurt of online and commercial opticals. 39dollarglasses is a popular website. You, a small business person. will never be able to compete with mega corporation. They are taking a biggger and bigger piece of the pie and this will only continue.

14. You patients will NO-SHOW routinely. It's not unusual to schedule 18 patients only to have 8 not show. They don't care and they know there is nothing you can do about it.

15. In some state, you can't even collect on a bad check. Your patients will be able to write all the bad checks they want and there is nothing you can do about it (other than stop taking checks).

16. Insurance companies make up their own rules. They have ZERO oversight. No one regulate them. They will tell you you patient is covered. Then when you bill it, they will say, oopppsss.........they were not covered. Oh yea, and your now allowed to bill the patient because their EOB says they own nothing. AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT EXCEPT SMILE AND SAY "THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER'.

17. You are at the absolute mercy of insurance companies. If they say your exam is worth $23, then that is what you will get. Oh sure, you can take the high road and refuse to take that plan, but rest assured, most every other OD around you will take it hoping for those few extra patients to help meet payroll. But with the election coming up, who knows how this will play out.

18. And finally, for those that don't believe there is a huge oversupply of ODs, I offer you a challenge: Randomly call 5 OD offices, 5 OMD offices, 5 Family doc offices and 5 dentist offices. See which ones will get you in within 1-2 days. Here, the ODs will take any walk-in any time. Dentists have a 2-3 month wait, Family docs aren't even taking new patients they are so booked. And it will take you 2-6 months to get in to see an OMD for a routine exam.

Some medical professionals are exempt from this stuff because they are employees. But most ODs are solo and private (even the ones next to Lenscrafters has to deal with this crap).

So most of what I say is not limited to optometrists. It's just that ODs have to work double hard because we are not within the established medical structure.

 

[Eye]

Really good read, Tippytoe.

Off topic, I thought #5 was really funny.

 

[Od_IT]

what are your thoughts on career stability?

 

[Tippytoe]

People have been prediciting the end of optometry since it began in the early 1990's. I don't think optometry will go the way of the dinosaur. But it will probably look very different in the years to come.

ALL reimbursement is going down......and has been going down for many years. So you gotta see more patients to make the same amount of money (true in all health care). This is why there will be a huge oversupply. The opening of more colleges of optometry will hurt but the ability (through automation) and the need (due to desire for income) will cause ODs to go from seeing an average of 10 patients per day to 15 or 20.

So both of these factors will cause a shortage of patients and the need for ODs to fight hard for the limited supply of patients.

As with everything, the good docs will do well. The mediocre will struggle. The new ones............I don't know. They will have to dig up patients from under rocks I guess.

And the basic law of supply and demand will cause exam prices to go lower and lower as every OD thinks they can underprice their competitor. You have to. It cost $25,000 a month to run a small office. The bills must be paid.

Look on the bright side. Consumers will benefit greatly. They'll love $25 eye exams and $30 glasses. And it takes alot of $25 eye exams to pay back $200,000 school loans.😳

Damn, I hate to be the poster of gloom and doom. I've very optimistic by nature. But I can't see a great future in optometry. Anyone that really tries hard will do well though. But as a whole, it just doesn't look good. You just can't pump out a net plus of a thousand of new ODs every year for the same number of patients and not expect trouble (when ODs are barely staying busy as it is).

I'll do fine as I already have my ducks in a row. I personally wouldn't want to be an OD student nowadays. I'm steering my kids in other directions.

And who knows--- I could be totally wrong.

 

[gochi]

I don't post much but this topic interests me.

I regularly browse studentdoctor.net and I don't think I ever see practicing clinicians of other professions actively discouraging students.

Not even in the podiatry forum (there may be but I just haven't seen it). I even viewed the pharmacist forum and no such conversation was found.

I wonder why this is? Could we know something that students don't?? You guys are very fortunate to have all this info available on the internet. Back in the early 1990's when I was applying, there was no net and little info.

For the record, I woudn't do it again despite a good income and lifestyle. Just not challenging enough. For me, optometry is about 40% positive and 60% negative.

But then again, you'd have to beat me to be a pharmacist and have to stand behind a Walgreen's counter all day and night giving old people grocery bags full of meds.

60% negative and 40% positive eh?

 

[kryptique]

Revisiting an old thread, but: the thing about MDs not having a balanced life is not necessarily true. I mean, in those specific cases mentioned (i.e. working at a hospital), then sure you won't have the level of autonomy an OD at a clinic has.

However, if you own a private practice, you have lots of autonomy. I know a family MD in Toronto that takes a week off during Christmas & 2 weeks off during the summer every year. I know MDs in a smaller town who take every Wednesday (and weekends) off. Granted...this is all Canadian & we've got a huge MD shortage, so it may not translate exactly elsewhere. 🙄

My point is: don't go into optometry (instead of medicine) just because you feel you'll have more time off or a more balanced lifestyle. That is not necessarily true in the end.