Thinking about attending a DO school. What are the downsides?

[STAT EKG]

---

Members do not see this ad.

You need to stop being so defensive of the fact that you are probably attending a carribean medical school. The second you stepped off U.S soil to spend your money in another country you degraded your chances. There are simply a TON of IMG's trying to match every year, which represents the "large" quantity of people you are claiming are on the Rad trail. If you look up the stats you'll see that D.O's have about a 78% match rate while U.S MD is 93%, IMG is far below at 50-ish.

In the end, if a patient asks i'd rather explain to them that i went D.O because i was only admitted to that rather than explain to them how i went out of the country to obtain a foreign degree just so i can have M.D after my name.

PS: The spelling is correct- its my username on purpose *****

This is GOLD. I haven't laughed out loud at post in a while, but this did it.

 

[dreamweaver1988]

I recognize that everyone in medical school, MD or DO, deserves to be there. I also appreciate the fact the DO schools weight the importance of GPA vs. other aspects differently than MD schools do. This variation obviously allows a wider range of deserving students to become doctors. Hopefully this diversity of background also helps improve patient care in the long run.

You forgot to provide the AA disclaimer

 

[Bacchus]

I'm sure drizz will be by to defend himself, but those assuming he goes to a Caribbean school are incorrect.

 

[ensuii]

Here are potential downsides:

1) You will find it more difficult to match into allopathic residencies. It will be improbable to match the top specialties.
2) If you can't swallow OMM or deal with it for two years and potentially residency, you might be a tad bit miserable.
3) Osteopathic residencies and subsequent board certification make you an AOA member for life. In order to be board certified you must be an AOA member and pay dues.
4) The COMLEX, I have heard, is a poorer test than the USMLE. With that said, you shouldn't base admission solely on how this test is written.
5) DO schools, for the most part, do not have their own hospital.
6) Rotations at DO schools are varied. Schools such as PCOM have regional rotations which are within driving distance of your home. Schools like KCUMB, have clinical campuses where you may be in Kansas City or you may spend the majority of 3rd and 4th year in other locations such as Philadelphia.
7) DO rotations have a lot of 1:1 with the attending and you are not always in an academic setting. If you want an academic setting for all your rotations, it is possible, but you need to pick your rotations accordingly.
8) I've found a lack of mentorship. This can be related to the lack of a hospital since there isn't always clinical faculty in every specialty on campus at one time.

I've seen many opinions on COMLEX vs USMLE but just wanted to add my take.

a. In the course of your first two years, you'll probably take at least 40-50 major exams. I think at my school we counted 63. Personally, I kindof got used to taking tests so I didn't really see taking another exam as a big deal. The biggest downside was probably the extra $500 fee to take the test. Yay higher education fees!
b. I see frequently the sentiment that the two are different tests so you should study for them differently. Although it sounds perfectly sane, in my opinion they both test general medical knowledge appropriate for someone finishing the end of their 2nd year of medical school. As such, I feel like the best strategy is to study everything within the scope of the level of detail your classes have made you accustomed to. I feel like studying for the test with the mentality that "it's too general for X test" or "too specific for Y test" makes you more prone to miss things. Realistically, everything is fair game.
c. The general opinion is that the USMLE has multistep questions and more clinical vignettes than the COMLEX. Similarly, I've seen it stated that the COMLEX has more "buzzword" type questions and is more straightforward. Maybe the test has changed considerably recently (I know the scoring parameters were altered a few years ago at least) but I really don't think the difference between the two is that large. Obviously there are significant differences in the practical elements of the tests (ie COMLEX being 400qs with structured breaktime vs USMLE being 336qs with unstructured breaktime) but aside from the OMM component I felt like there were a lot of questions that were on my USMLE that could've easily been on my COMLEX and vice versa.
d.240s USMLE/640s COMLEX for full disclosure. I took the COMLEX first and had some major drama before the USMLE because I was ******ed and thought I would need more time between the two for brain recharge (I took USMLE 8 days later)...ended up not studying as much after COMLEX and lost steam :-(
e.Feel free to contact me with specific test prep questions for either!

 

[Sephiroth]

You need to stop being so defensive of the fact that you are probably attending a carribean medical school. The second you stepped off U.S soil to spend your money in another country you degraded your chances.

Oh man... you are way off the mark there man. lulz to ensue.

I'm sure drizz will be by to defend himself, but those assuming he goes to a Caribbean school are incorrect.

Indeed, drizzt knows his shizzt.

 

[drizzt3117]

Also, just to throw some facts into the argument: (Based on 2011 NRMP Data for Diagnostic Radiology; Matched/Total Matched)... Nobody knows what the number of applicants were for DOs separate from US IMGs/FMGs...

US MD: 888/17607 = 5.04%
DO: 62/1774 = 3.5%
US IMG (US Citizens attending foreign schools, e.g. Carib students): 36/2001 = 1.8%
Non-US IMG (FMGs): 37/2857 = 1.3%

According to the nrmp data there were 11 DOs, 18 FMGs and the rest were probably US grads. Don't have the link ATM but it was the overall 2011 match data.

 

[drizzt3117]

LMAO. I'm at a 4th year at a top 25 MD school on full scholarship so that's pretty funny. I interviewed at only top 20 radiology programs, so there aren't a TON of IMGs at the interviews, but there were a few. There also weren't ANY DOs at all. Furthermore, if there WERE a TON of IMGs at rads interviews of any caliber, that would be completely disproving your point that the Caribbean isn't a viable option, as they'd be getting interviews in competitive residencies en masse. In truth it's hard for both DOs and IMGs to get interviews at mid-upper tier university programs but my experience is that especially in NY, IMGs do pretty well even in more competitive specialties, whereas DOs are mostly relegated to the AOA match for the more competitive specialties.

In any case, maybe you should concentrate on getting your C+s on your upper level biology exams so you might even have a chance for med school. I suppose if you're ok with DO you can always retake it later so maybe it doesn't matter if you do poorly.

You need to stop being so defensive of the fact that you are probably attending a carribean medical school. The second you stepped off U.S soil to spend your money in another country you degraded your chances. There are simply a TON of IMG's trying to match every year, which represents the "large" quantity of people you are claiming are on the Rad trail. If you look up the stats you'll see that D.O's have about a 78% match rate while U.S MD is 93%, IMG is far below at 50-ish.

In the end, if a patient asks i'd rather explain to them that i went D.O because i was only admitted to that rather than explain to them how i went out of the country to obtain a foreign degree just so i can have M.D after my name.

PS: The spelling is correct- its my username on purpose *****

 

[skinnyDO]

I unfortunately read this entire thread because, currently, I have nothing to do until I start DO school in August.

All I have to say is that I really can't understand why you people care so much about what others think. The only thing I care about is to thank my lucky stars everyday that I have been accepted to a medical program and now have a somewhat secure future compared to others I know.

Ofcourse I'm going to work hard to be the best med student I can be but I really don't care what field I go into, outside of FP. Either way I know I will be be able to support myself and my family as "well-paid" physician. I coudn't care less that people don't respect my degree, or that I have to take 2 boards, or that I wont match into plastics.

I applied to 7 MD schools and 2 DO schools. Both DO schools accepted me 2 months into the application cycle, and thank GOD bc I worked my ass off to get there. MD schools have shown me NO love and I know for a fact that it's not because I'm not an exceptional student.

So here is a 26 year old male, from an upper-class family, who went to FA-WHO? for UG, wrote a masters thesis on transcription regulation, scored a 30 on the MCAT, and jumped thru every hoop imaginable trying to get into an MD school, telling you that if the DO world is where you feel the love... GO THERE AND DON'T LOOK BACK.

Good luck.

 

[scotchtapetest]

According to the nrmp data there were 11 DOs, 18 FMGs and the rest were probably US grads. Don't have the link ATM but it was the overall 2011 match data.

Your numbers (which are still incorrect, should be 11 DOs, 1 IMG and 6 FMG) are for PGY1 Radiology spots only (programs with combined internship); but as you know, for Radiology, you have to include PGY2 spots as well...

To help you out, here is the Link (Go to Pg. 13): www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf

Also I forgot to add non-senior US MDs (prior graduates of US MD schools who were going through the match in 2011; since the other categories include such people, it is only fair to include them in the US MD data as well and actually slightly improves their numbers):

US MD: 946/18354 = 5.2%
DO: 62/1774 = 3.5%
US IMG (US Citizens attending foreign schools, e.g. Carib students): 36/2001 = 1.8%
Non-US IMG (FMGs): 37/2857 = 1.3%

LMAO. I'm at a 4th year at a top 25 MD school on full scholarship so that's pretty funny. I interviewed at only top 20 radiology programs, so there aren't a TON of IMGs at the interviews, but there were a few. There also weren't ANY DOs at all. Furthermore, if there WERE a TON of IMGs at rads interviews of any caliber, that would be completely disproving your point that the Caribbean isn't a viable option, as they'd be getting interviews in competitive residencies en masse. In truth it's hard for both DOs and IMGs to get interviews at mid-upper tier university programs but my experience is that especially in NY, IMGs do pretty well even in more competitive specialties, whereas DOs are mostly relegated to the AOA match for the more competitive specialties.

I think I've answered this one multiple times now... But I'll give it another try, maybe you'll understand this time ...

1) The match data speaks for itself, unless there is a NRMP conspiracy against FMGs/IMGs ... See link above and feel free to complain to NRMP, if you think their data is inaccurate...

2) As I replied to you in another thread regarding this very subject, just because you didn't see anyone doesn't mean they didn't interview DOs, because they obviously do or they wouldn't match.... I also didn't see anyone at my well over 10 IM interviews, some at very top tier places, from a number of US MD schools (e.g. Univ. of ND, Univ. of SD, Univ. of Missouri, LSU, Tulane, Univ. of TN, Toledo, and the list goes on and on [If I think about it hard enough I can name at least 30 schools where I didn't see any of their students]).... That doesn't mean students from those schools didn't get IM interviews; it just means that I didn't run into them....

3) Also, since we are on topic, almost 3 times as many DOs match ACGME than AOA for radiology specifically (due to number of available spots)....

 

[drizzt3117]

2) As I replied to you in another thread regarding this very subject, just because you didn't see anyone doesn't mean they didn't interview DOs, because they obviously do or they wouldn't match.... I also didn't see anyone at my well over 10 IM interviews, some at very top tier place, from a number of US MD schools (e.g. Univ. of ND, Univ. of SD, Univ. of Missouri, LSU, Tulane, Univ. of TN, Toledo, and the list goes on and on [If I think about it hard enough I can name at least 30 schools where I didn't see any of their students]).... That doesn't mean students from those schools didn't get IM interviews; it just means that I didn't run into them....

I have the complete list of interviewees including institution and email addresses for interviewees at half the programs I interviewed at (obviously this is more common with rads than IM because of the number of interviewees) and there was one DO interviewee (from CCOM) on all of the ones I read. This is from 10 programs and about 600 unique interviewees. Of course it's anecdotal but it also is what it is. As I said before, there were about 4-5 US/IMGs and FMGs.

3) Also, since we are on topic, almost 3 times as many DOs match ACGME than AOA for radiology specifically (due to number of available spots)....

There's 30 spots for AOA radiology so it sounds like slightly more than twice as many match ACGME rads. That's not surprising really because there are a lot of community programs in rads and most of them aren't very desirable for MD grads, I'm sure internal medicine is the same way. To my knowledge there are two DO grads in top 20 programs other than Pittsburgh (which takes a bit more DOs than other programs, their PD is a DO)
out of about 1000 residents, fwiw. I interviewed at more than half of the top 20 programs, and carefully browsed all of the lists; you'd better believe i was looking for DOs 😛

 

[scotchtapetest]

I unfortunately read this entire thread because, currently, I have nothing to do until I start DO school in August.

All I have to say is that I really can't understand why you people care so much about what others think. The only thing I care about is to thank my lucky stars everyday that I have been accepted to a medical program and now have a somewhat secure future compared to others I know.

Ofcourse I'm going to work hard to be the best med student I can be but I really don't care what field I go into, outside of FP. Either way I know I will be be able to support myself and my family as "well-paid" physician. I coudn't care less that people don't respect my degree, or that I have to take 2 boards, or that I wont match into plastics.

I applied to 7 MD schools and 2 DO schools. Both DO schools accepted me 2 months into the application cycle, and thank GOD bc I worked my ass off to get there. MD schools have shown me NO love and I know for a fact that it's not because I'm not an exceptional student.

So here is a 26 year old male, from an upper-class family, who went to FA-WHO? for UG, wrote a masters thesis on transcription regulation, scored a 30 on the MCAT, and jumped thru every hoop imaginable trying to get into an MD school, telling you that if the DO world is where you feel the love... GO THERE AND DON'T LOOK BACK.

Good luck.

Nobody in the clinical setting gives a flying f*** about your degree (on SDN, that's a different story) ... The only thing that matters is whether you are competent or not (at any level, student/resident/attending)... I walk around in hospitals with the biggest possible patch that you can fit on a white coat that says "DO" in big letters on it (that's just how my school's white coats were designed/ordered), and I am yet to be disrespected or discriminated against by anyone (but I'm sure pre-allo students know more about the subject)...

Congratulations on your acceptances and Good Luck

 

[scotchtapetest]

I have the complete list of interviewees including institution and email addresses for interviewees at half the programs I interviewed at (obviously this is more common with rads than IM because of the number of interviewees) and there was one DO interviewee (from CCOM) on all of the ones I read. This is from 10 programs and about 600 unique interviewees. Of course it's anecdotal but it also is what it is. As I said before, there were about 4-5 US/IMGs and FMGs.



There's 30 spots for AOA radiology so it sounds like slightly more than twice as many match ACGME rads. That's not surprising really because there are a lot of community programs in rads and most of them aren't very desirable for MD grads, I'm sure internal medicine is the same way. To my knowledge there are two DO grads in top 20 programs other than Pittsburgh (which takes a bit more DOs than other programs, their PD is a DO)
out of about 1000 residents, fwiw. I interviewed at more than half of the top 20 programs, and carefully browsed all of the lists; you'd better believe i was looking for DOs 😛

1) When there is data to go by, why rely on anecdotal evidence? Again, I refer you to the NRMP website.

2) For 2011 there were 25 AOA spots and when you consider prematches which I'm sure a few people got, the numbers add up to "almost" 3 times (like I said in my post)... You have to compare 2011 to 2011 not to 2012.

3) Well, your knowledge regarding top 20 IM programs and number of DOs is wrong... I'm not saying there are many by any stretch of imagination, but there are certainly more than 2. Also top 20 IM programs are different than top 20 rads programs, as I'm sure you are well aware of...

4) When you were looking at those lists, did you also look at the names to see what percentage were from bottom 20-30 US MD schools as well, or were you just focused on DOs?

5) Nobody is arguing against the fact that going DO puts you at a disadvantage for ACGME Rads (at least with regards to the tier of the program) compared to US MD, especially top tier US MD schools; It is their match, I hope they get some benefits... The argument is about your claim that IMG/FMGs do better...

 

[SpecterGT260]

1) When there is data to go by, why rely on anecdotal evidence? Again, I refer you to the NRMP website.

2) For 2011 there were 25 AOA spots and when you consider prematches which I'm sure a few people got, the numbers add up to "almost" 3 times (like I said in my post)... You have to compare 2011 to 2011 not to 2012.

3) Well, your knowledge regarding top 20 IM programs and number of DOs is wrong... I'm not saying there are many by any stretch of imagination, but there are certainly more than 2. Also top 20 IM programs are different than top 20 rads programs, as I'm sure you are well aware of...

4) When you were looking at those lists, did you also look at the names to see what percentage were from bottom 20-30 US MD schools as well, or were you just focused on DOs?

5) Nobody is arguing against the fact that going DO puts you at a disadvantage for ACGME Rads (at least with regards to the tier of the program) compared to US MD, especially top tier US MD schools; It is their match, I hope they get some benefits... The argument is about your claim that IMG/FMGs do better...

👍

Real data exists because of the inherent problems with the effect of probability on perception.

 

[Bacchus]

Sometimes people cannot compromise on opinions. As such, arguments ensue that degrade into discussion that isn't desirable for the forums. Reiterating a point many times does not further validate it or discredit it, but does cause a drawn-out, unnecessary process. With that said, there is always the option to discuss a subject via PM so the dribble does not affect the flow of discussion in a thread. Also, don't forget there is an ignore option if another poster is disgruntling you.

 

[drizzt3117]

👍

Real data exists because of the inherent problems with the effect of probability on perception.

My point was that DOs aren't getting interviews at top 20 programs in rads even at the same rate as IMGs. There's no "real" data about this, unless a PD is willing to share their records.

As far as low tier MD schools go, one of the frequent posters in the SDN rads forum goes to a school that fits that description and interviewed at MGH, BWH, and Hopkins this cycle, something I guarantee wouldn't happen from a DO school (PDs straight up said thei don't consider DOs)

 

[scotchtapetest]

My point was that DOs aren't getting interviews at top 20 programs in rads even at the same rate as IMGs. There's no "real" data about this, unless a PD is willing to share their records.

As far as low tier MD schools go, one of the frequent posters in the SDN rads forum goes to a school that fits that description and interviewed at MGH, BWH, and Hopkins this cycle, something I guarantee wouldn't happen from a DO school (PDs straight up said thei don't consider DOs)

Well you may be right... Who knows... It's pointless arguing about it because whatever I say or facts for that matter don't seem to make any difference...

If you can sleep better tonight thinking IMGs do better, then that's cool with me because it doesn't really change anything....

Either way I wish you the best of luck next Friday and hope both you and the other guy from the other school match to your number 1s....

 

[Sephiroth]

Nobody in the clinical setting gives a flying f*** about your degree (on SDN, that's a different story) ... The only thing that matters is whether you are competent or not (at any level, student/resident/attending)... I walk around in hospitals with the biggest possible patch that you can fit on a white coat that says "DO" in big letters on it (that's just how my school's white coats were designed/ordered), and I am yet to be disrespected or discriminated against by anyone (but I'm sure pre-allo students know more about the subject)...

Congratulations on your acceptances and Good Luck

why do you wear a DO badge if you haven't graduated yet? Is that typical (for DO schools, or are there MD schools that put MD on med student coats as well)?

 

[SpecterGT260]

and I didnt think we were talking about exclusion criteria either. when we say "xxx does better than xxx" the assumption is that everything else is equal. If DO's are excluded from those programs based on policy we really arent talking about relative ability to compete. In such a case it is no different than saying that engineers don't match well into these programs. irrelevant

 

[scotchtapetest]

why do you wear a DO badge if you haven't graduated yet? Is that typical (for DO schools, or are there MD schools that put MD on med student coats as well)?

Almost all DO schools have "DO" as part of their school emblem/seal which is placed on white coats (at least the few that I've seen).... I've seen MD schools with the same thing (ie MD as part of their emblem on white coats) but I'm not sure how common that is for them...

 

[rafman]

Hey Bala,
Did you really interview at all those schools for your IM residency? Congrats!! I would love to do mine at one of those in four years lol. I emailed the PD of the University of Texas Health Science Center Houston general surgery progam back in November (one of my dad's friends) and asked if I should go to SGU or a DO school, and he told me that although they would HIGHLY prefer USMD's over DO/IMG, that if it came down to DO and IMG, he would hands down go with the DO candidate. And he assured many of the other PD's at UTHSCH feel the same way. Although its an uphill battle for both of our groups, our hill isn't quite as enourmous, although still big 😉

 

[scotchtapetest]

Hey Bala,
Did you really interview at all those schools for your IM residency? Congrats!! I would love to do mine at one of those in four years lol. I emailed the PD of the University of Texas Health Science Center Houston general surgery progam back in November (one of my dad's friends) and asked if I should go to SGU or a DO school, and he told me that although they would HIGHLY prefer USMD's over DO/IMG, that if it came down to DO and IMG, he would hands down go with the DO candidate. And he assured many of the other PD's at UTHSCH feel the same way. Although its an uphill battle for both of our groups, our hill isn't quite as enourmous, although still big 😉

Just to be clear, I never said all of my interviews were at top 25 IM programs, although a few were.... We'll see what happens next Friday! Wish me luck!

And best of luck to you in whatever you choose... Just as I said before, make sure whatever it is, it will make you happy.... That's a lot more important than matching top 25 (unless that's what makes you happy in which case that's sad but cool with me)....

Feel free to PM me with questions.... Or maybe you should wait untill next Friday before deciding on the value of my advice.....😉

 

[drizzt3117]

and I didnt think we were talking about exclusion criteria either. when we say "xxx does better than xxx" the assumption is that everything else is equal. If DO's are excluded from those programs based on policy we really arent talking about relative ability to compete. In such a case it is no different than saying that engineers don't match well into these programs. irrelevant

I'm sure there's a lot of programs that don't consider Carib students either, to be fair.

Just for the record, I'm not suggesting people should go to the Carib over DO. I think US DO is a fine alternative for those who can't get into MD schools. I am making the point that people who claim that the newer DO schools are automatically better than SGU have no evidence to back up their claims either because there isn't an established track record there and it also runs contrary to my observations.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Whether or not Caribs are considered has no impact on my statement...

Candidates of any kind excluded based on policy cannot be used in a comparison of relative competitiveness. Your conclusion that DOs match less due to competitiveness is invalid. They matched less (0%) because they were not eligible to begin with

 

[drizzt3117]

Whether or not Caribs are considered has no impact on my statement...

Candidates of any kind excluded based on policy cannot be used in a comparison of relative competitiveness. Your conclusion that DOs match less due to competitiveness is invalid. They matched less (0%) because they were not eligible to begin with

wtf are you talking about? It isn't an official policy s/t DOs aren't allowed to match, it's just the way things are at certain programs/institutions.

Seriously, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. It's a foregone conclusion that MDs are in better shape applying for ACGME residencies, the DO people obv believe that too; that's not even what we're discussing right now.

 

[blizzah]

Candidates of any kind excluded based on policy cannot be used in a comparison of relative competitiveness. Your conclusion that DOs match less due to competitiveness is invalid. They matched less (0%) because they were not eligible to begin with

Of course it can be used for comparison. The reason PDs at these schools do not interview and match DOs is because they are DOs and not MDs.

 

[SpecterGT260]

My point was that DOs aren't getting interviews at top 20 programs in rads even at the same rate as IMGs. There's no "real" data about this, unless a PD is willing to share their records.

As far as low tier MD schools go, one of the frequent posters in the SDN rads forum goes to a school that fits that description and interviewed at MGH, BWH, and Hopkins this cycle, something I guarantee wouldn't happen from a DO school (PDs straight up said thei don't consider DOs)

This implies policy, whether written or not. If they are not considered based on title instead of scores it is not a valid comparison and "rate" of matching is meaningless

 

[235788]

This implies policy, whether written or not. If they are not considered based on title instead of scores it is not a valid comparison and "rate" of matching is meaningless

If it happens doesn't necessarily means its policy. It could just be an unspoken understanding.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Of course it can be used for comparison. The reason PDs at these schools do not interview and match DOs is because they are DOs and not MDs.

It can be used for A comparison, sure. But eligibility does not reflect competitiveness so we cannot include such programs if we want to discuss relative ability to match. If we include these programs when discussing DO "matchability" then we also have to include AOA match when calculating MD match rates. A top tier program could announce tomorrow that it will not consider MD graduates from Illinois, California, or new England. Why? Doesn't matter.... Maybe the PD lost a bet. If we were going to talk about MD ability to match to highly ranked programs would we allow this program to skew the numbers downward or would we note the exception and exclude from the calculation?

The issue is in what question we are asking. Gross numbers maybe we can include these programs, but from the perspective of a DO student those programs might as well not exist or at least be considered AMA exclusive residencies. All I am saying is it is inappropriate to include data that is not applicable to the sample population in he first place.

 

[drizzt3117]

This implies policy, whether written or not. If they are not considered based on title instead of scores it is not a valid comparison and "rate" of matching is meaningless

I am not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or just don't get it. Who cares if it's not an even comparison? If you're a candidate considering MD and DO schools and are applying to ACGME residencies, why would you choose a path in which you aren't even considered by many if not most of the top programs in competitive specialties? DO students love to point to the one DO grad that matched Mayo derm or the one DO grad who matched UCSD rads and ignore the fact that that's NORMAL for MD applicants and almost unheard of for DO applicants.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I'm an MD student.

Just sensitive to faulty logic on both sides of the argument.

A program that just plain doesn't consider someone with a given title doesn't lend much to overall understanding. However, if a program DOES consider these people and they still match to a lesser degree then we have numbers with actual meaning.

What I am saying is that exclusivity skews match ratings downward. If 50% of programs exclude DOs and they match 30% of overall seats in that specialty then technically they were more highly competitive bc their match rate is 60% for eligible seats vs MDs. They were not competing for seats in the exclusive programs to begin with. This is no different than someone including the AOA match to bolster DO and diminish MD match rates.

 

[drizzt3117]

Um, how is it not relevant that you have 0 chance to match at a program if you're a DO? That's obviously something to consider if you're interested in that program.

I'm an MD student.

Just sensitive to faulty logic on both sides of the argument.

A program that just plain doesn't consider someone with a given title doesn't lend much to overall understanding. However, if a program DOES consider these people and they still match to a lesser degree then we have numbers with actual meaning.

 

[scotchtapetest]

I am not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or just don't get it. Who cares if it's not an even comparison? If you're a candidate considering MD and DO schools and are applying to ACGME residencies, why would you choose a path in which you aren't even considered by many if not most of the top programs in competitive specialties? DO students love to point to the one DO grad that matched Mayo derm or the one DO grad who matched UCSD rads and ignore the fact that that's NORMAL for MD applicants and almost unheard of for DO applicants.

Here is a simple rule.... If you want to go to Top 20 ACGME any program do not apply DO because as we all know all MDs from all MD schools always go to these programs and all MD programs are viewed/regarded equally by the all PDs....

 

[Bacchus]

This thread has outrun its usefulness. Any debate can continue via PM as suggested before. To the OP, there are excellent threads stickied in the Pre-osteopathic forum that answer many questions. Choose to read those at your convenience.