Thinking about dropping out

[lavenderearlgrey]

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Hi all. I know at the end of the day I'm the only one who can make this decision, but I just really need to talk it through and get some outside perspective. So here's my situation.

I'm a non-trad student, background in public health, really interested in working as a zoonosis control vet or other population health stuff or parasitology. Finished year one, did fine, and just feel an incredible sense of doom about finances, time, and not that sure anymore that I want to be a vet. I was hoping to qualify for PSLF and I know that hasn't changed much yet, but I just don't feel I can hope for any loan forgiveness in the US anymore. Not to mention all the jobs I wanted to have are being cut or defunded.

I guess I feel like I could have a similar job to what I want without vet school and all the debt, and I find myself wishing I had done a PhD program instead, despite all of those jobs probably getting defunded as well anyway. I'm jealous of my friends who went to human medical school even though I don't want to be an MD. I feel like being in vet school has been so confusing as far as what I thought I would find fulfilling, determining my personal values and ethics, and honestly I just feel so lost. I'm worried about blowing up my life by dropping out (and my former career path not really hiring atm) but I'm also worried about getting myself deeper into debt and then hating my job and career path anyway.

I guess this is just a rant, advice welcome.

 

[JaynaAli]

Would your school let you take a leave of absence? If it’s not for medical reasons they may not let you defer, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. Worst case they say no and you’re in the same position you are now, but if they agreed to it, it might leave the door open in case you change your mind and give you time to find a plan B and figure out what you want to do.

If you think you can do the job you want without the degree, then dropping out now seems to make sense before you have even more debt. But make sure it’s not just general burnout and apathy and all that causing you to make a decision you may regret. But ultimately there’s no shame in changing plans and leaving school if it’s no longer what you want.

 

[lavenderearlgrey]

Would your school let you take a leave of absence? If it’s not for medical reasons they may not let you defer, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. Worst case they say no and you’re in the same position you are now, but if they agreed to it, it might leave the door open in case you change your mind and give you time to find a plan B and figure out what you want to do.

If you think you can do the job you want without the degree, then dropping out now seems to make sense before you have even more debt. But make sure it’s not just general burnout and apathy and all that causing you to make a decision you may regret. But ultimately there’s no shame in changing plans and leaving school if it’s no longer what you want.

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. My concern with taking a leave of absence is that I am already a bit older and I don't really want to delay starting my career (and a family) by yet another year. My partner also moved cross-country with me when I started school and the logistics of figuring out what both of us would do are more complicated, plus it's a lot of sacrifice for them to potentially get a different job for a year and have to move multiple times, or stay where we are for an extra year.

But you're right, it is an option and can't hurt to ask and at least see/think through what that might look like for me. You're also right about burnout being something to consider. I am thinking as well about giving it one more semester (yes, more debt, but also more of the classes like parasitology that I'm really invested in) and switching my part-time job to something that aligns better with my career goals to see if that makes a difference. So those are all options.

 

[pp9]

I guess I feel like I could have a similar job to what I want without vet school and all the debt, and I find myself wishing I had done a PhD program instead, despite all of those jobs probably getting defunded as well anyway. I'm jealous of my friends who went to human medical school even though I don't want to be an MD. I feel like being in vet school has been so confusing as far as what I thought I would find fulfilling, determining my personal values and ethics, and honestly I just feel so lost. I'm worried about blowing up my life by dropping out (and my former career path not really hiring atm) but I'm also worried about getting myself deeper into debt and then hating my job and career path anyway.

What I'm reading here is not necessarily that vet med isn't for you, but perhaps you came in with a lot of expectations and your experience has fallen short thus far. If you're comfortable elaborating, I'm sure we can offer some thoughts there. Vet school is not a fun time, and there isn't much realistic career exposure early on in the four years. You don't really feel like your 'in the mix' until your clinical year, and even that is not a great representation of what the average vet's day to day is like. And for someone who wants to be a nonclinical vet in a very specific setting, it's even harder to get a good sense of whether or not you'd be happy with that unless you worked for a similar vet before starting school.

If you think you can be happy and fulfilled outside of vet med, the general recommendation from anyone (SDN or not) in the field is to go pursue something else. Like you said, only you can really know if that would be the right choice for you. At the end of the day, being a vet in any capacity is just a job. It isn't all that different from any other career in that aspect. You don't have to be head over heels in love with the career. You don't have to eat/sleep/breathe vet med, but you do need to be reasonably fulfilled.

A huge benefit of vet med is that our degree is extremely flexible - we can do just about anything in our field with that degree and at any time. In comparison to human med, MDs/DOs are pretty much locked into a specialty they chose at 25/26 (generalization), or a specialty that was chosen for them. Do you have a decent idea of why you might be feeling jealous of medical school students?

 

[supershorty]

What I'm reading here is not necessarily that vet med isn't for you, but perhaps you came in with a lot of expectations and your experience has fallen short thus far. If you're comfortable elaborating, I'm sure we can offer some thoughts there. Vet school is not a fun time, and there isn't much realistic career exposure early on in the four years. You don't really feel like your 'in the mix' until your clinical year, and even that is not a great representation of what the average vet's day to day is like. And for someone who wants to be a nonclinical vet in a very specific setting, it's even harder to get a good sense of whether or not you'd be happy with that unless you worked for a similar vet before starting school.

Especially coming off of 1st year. I can't speak to the curriculum at OP's program, but my program did not get into any of the things that they're expressing interest in during 1st year (and I believe OP is a second year now?), which could make it very difficult to feel engaged or like it was worth it to continue. It may well be that this year would be a better metric or at least more interesting for them, depending on what coursework is scheduled for that year.

 

[pp9]

Especially coming off of 1st year. I can't speak to the curriculum at OP's program, but my program did not get into any of the things that they're expressing interest in during 1st year (and I believe OP is a second year now?), which could make it very difficult to feel engaged or like it was worth it to continue. It may well be that this year would be a better metric or at least more interesting for them, depending on what coursework is scheduled for that year.

Absolutely. First year was really hard for me to engage with and I've always wanted to be a clinical vet. First year just sucks, lol. I can only imagine how challenging it is for someone who wants to do research or nonclinical stuff. To be honest, I didn't really feel like things 'clicked' for me until third year, which is when you typically start to learn the more applicable things (for clinical practice, anyways). I agree that OP might really enjoy second year.

OP, are you able to connect with a clinician or someone who has a lab that aligns with your interests? Meeting with them to pick their brain would be a great thing.

 

[lavenderearlgrey]

What I'm reading here is not necessarily that vet med isn't for you, but perhaps you came in with a lot of expectations and your experience has fallen short thus far. If you're comfortable elaborating, I'm sure we can offer some thoughts there. Vet school is not a fun time, and there isn't much realistic career exposure early on in the four years. You don't really feel like your 'in the mix' until your clinical year, and even that is not a great representation of what the average vet's day to day is like. And for someone who wants to be a nonclinical vet in a very specific setting, it's even harder to get a good sense of whether or not you'd be happy with that unless you worked for a similar vet before starting school.

If you think you can be happy and fulfilled outside of vet med, the general recommendation from anyone (SDN or not) in the field is to go pursue something else. Like you said, only you can really know if that would be the right choice for you. At the end of the day, being a vet in any capacity is just a job. It isn't all that different from any other career in that aspect. You don't have to be head over heels in love with the career. You don't have to eat/sleep/breathe vet med, but you do need to be reasonably fulfilled.

A huge benefit of vet med is that our degree is extremely flexible - we can do just about anything in our field with that degree and at any time. In comparison to human med, MDs/DOs are pretty much locked into a specialty they chose at 25/26 (generalization), or a specialty that was chosen for them. Do you have a decent idea of why you might be feeling jealous of medical school students?

Hi, thanks for such a thoughtful response. Yeah, that's definitely fair - I think the expectations vs reality aspect is definitely a big part of it. I also think wanting a very specific career and so much of school not relating to that career has been tough, not to mention the adjustment of being a student again after being out of school for several years and starting something new at an age where most of my peers have a pretty settled career progression. I know I need more need more clinical experience since my background is lab work and data science, so I've been throwing myself in head first to that and haven't really gotten to use any of the skills I do have yet, so I think there is a disconnect there. It is totally possible that the combination of skills I'll have as a DVM/MPH will great and give me a fulfilling career, I'm just at this point wondering if the juice is worth the squeeze so to speak. But thank you for the reminder that at the end of the day, a job is a job.

I definitely love the flexibility that you mentioned, especially with the jobs I want being somewhat politically volatile - as a DVM, there will definitely be a job out there for me no matter what is going on in the world and the options for that job are very open. I think jealousy is really about treatment options for patients. Logically, I knew going into vet med that the answer for a lot of medical issues would be euthanasia, but I think it's hit me a lot harder than I expected, especially working in large animal. It feels really terrible to know the exact physiological mechanism of the disease process, know that we have the medicine and technology to treat it, and have the answer still be to do nothing. Even when I know logically that the best choice for a cow is not a long surgery with iffy chances of recovery, my heart still wants to do anything we can. I know for a human, they would try more (which ofc can come with its own problems), and honestly sometimes I'm left wondering if the animal had been a horse if the clinician would have made a different decision. If it had been an expensive race horse? A dog? And that's a huge part of vet med that I know I need to learn to accept and understand that more isn't always better for the patients. But if I'm being honest, it has made it more difficult for me to stay focused on learning about medicine in so much detail when emotionally it feels like it doesn't matter because we won't pursue treatment anyway. I am in therapy for what it's worth, and doing my best to try to reframe some of this.

 

[lavenderearlgrey]

Absolutely. First year was really hard for me to engage with and I've always wanted to be a clinical vet. First year just sucks, lol. I can only imagine how challenging it is for someone who wants to do research or nonclinical stuff. To be honest, I didn't really feel like things 'clicked' for me until third year, which is when you typically start to learn the more applicable things (for clinical practice, anyways). I agree that OP might really enjoy second year.

OP, are you able to connect with a clinician or someone who has a lab that aligns with your interests? Meeting with them to pick their brain would be a great thing.

Glad (??) to hear it's a tough time for everyone. We definitely haven't touched any of the stuff I'm really interested in yet, but second year has the whole infectious disease/parasitology section, so I am hoping that will be a better time for me.

I'm trying to set up a meeting with a vet at my school who does wildlife disease monitoring type stuff, which would honestly be a dream job for me lol, she's out on vacation right now, but I'm pretty sure she'll meet with me. And maybe trying to reach out to a few more people would be a good thing. I've been trying to get experience in the parts of vet med that are newer to me, and it's been great for learning but I think for career progression maybe getting into a lab with my interests would provide some better balance.

 

[lavenderearlgrey]

Especially coming off of 1st year. I can't speak to the curriculum at OP's program, but my program did not get into any of the things that they're expressing interest in during 1st year (and I believe OP is a second year now?), which could make it very difficult to feel engaged or like it was worth it to continue. It may well be that this year would be a better metric or at least more interesting for them, depending on what coursework is scheduled for that year.

Definitely! We have parasitology and other infectious disease stuff this year (year 2), so classwork I think will be a little more tailored to my specific interests.

 

[pp9]

Hi, thanks for such a thoughtful response. Yeah, that's definitely fair - I think the expectations vs reality aspect is definitely a big part of it. I also think wanting a very specific career and so much of school not relating to that career has been tough, not to mention the adjustment of being a student again after being out of school for several years and starting something new at an age where most of my peers have a pretty settled career progression. I know I need more need more clinical experience since my background is lab work and data science, so I've been throwing myself in head first to that and haven't really gotten to use any of the skills I do have yet, so I think there is a disconnect there. It is totally possible that the combination of skills I'll have as a DVM/MPH will great and give me a fulfilling career, I'm just at this point wondering if the juice is worth the squeeze so to speak. But thank you for the reminder that at the end of the day, a job is a job.

I definitely love the flexibility that you mentioned, especially with the jobs I want being somewhat politically volatile - as a DVM, there will definitely be a job out there for me no matter what is going on in the world and the options for that job are very open. I think jealousy is really about treatment options for patients. Logically, I knew going into vet med that the answer for a lot of medical issues would be euthanasia, but I think it's hit me a lot harder than I expected, especially working in large animal. It feels really terrible to know the exact physiological mechanism of the disease process, know that we have the medicine and technology to treat it, and have the answer still be to do nothing. Even when I know logically that the best choice for a cow is not a long surgery with iffy chances of recovery, my heart still wants to do anything we can. I know for a human, they would try more (which ofc can come with its own problems), and honestly sometimes I'm left wondering if the animal had been a horse if the clinician would have made a different decision. If it had been an expensive race horse? A dog? And that's a huge part of vet med that I know I need to learn to accept and understand that more isn't always better for the patients. But if I'm being honest, it has made it more difficult for me to stay focused on learning about medicine in so much detail when emotionally it feels like it doesn't matter because we won't pursue treatment anyway. I am in therapy for what it's worth, and doing my best to try to reframe some of this.

Here's a different perspective: I would never, ever want to practice in human medicine, where they are often treating the untreatable to the point where there is nothing humane about what they are doing. Harsh take, I know. I'm well aware that you could choose less dire specialties and a patient can decline treatment anytime they want, or continue to consent to it....but after seeing a parent go through some extremely traumatizing levels of ICU care in the name of possibly living with the remaining shreds of what once was a good QOL, I am strongly of the belief that just because we can, doesn't mean we should. Sure, there are countless less severe examples where medicine works and there isn't a ton of suffering and the patient gets better, but we have those in vet med too. The human med field is just as flawed as vet med but in different ways. We are kinder to animals.

Euthanasia is a difficult thing, but I'll tell you that as a vet it often brings me more relief than anything. I am thankful that I don't have to send a terminal cancer patient home to suffer, that a heart failure patient doesn't have to slowly drown while it waits to die. That a dog never has to stay hooked up to oxygen to stay alive, unable to do the things that brought it joy. The animals that really should be relieved of their suffering, but are taken home against recommendation, are the cases that keep me awake at night. Sometime in the future, I believe human euthanasia will become increasingly available for those that have no other choice and are suffering greatly. Until then, our sickest humans live their final days in great pain, waiting for it to be over.

Like you said, more isn't always better. Vet med also brings up the ethical debate of consent and what we are putting animals through when they don't understand what's going on. They won't understand that the intense pain they feel after a surgery (TPLO, for example) will go away and they will have a better QOL in time. We as owners/vets decide that for them. We also decide when it is time for euthanasia, too. So not to say it's perfect over here of course, I just could never be envious of a field that often loses sight of the patient in favor of the treatment.

Sorry, got heavy there, but I have a lot of feels about this!

 

[lavenderearlgrey]

Here's a different perspective: I would never, ever want to practice in human medicine, where they are often treating the untreatable to the point where there is nothing humane about what they are doing. Harsh take, I know. I'm well aware that you could choose less dire specialties and a patient can decline treatment anytime they want, or continue to consent to it....but after seeing a parent go through some extremely traumatizing levels of ICU care in the name of possibly living with the remaining shreds of what once was a good QOL, I am strongly of the belief that just because we can, doesn't mean we should. Sure, there are countless less severe examples where medicine works and there isn't a ton of suffering and the patient gets better, but we have those in vet med too. The human med field is just as flawed as vet med but in different ways. We are kinder to animals.

Euthanasia is a difficult thing, but I'll tell you that as a vet it often brings me more relief than anything. I am thankful that I don't have to send a terminal cancer patient home to suffer, that a heart failure patient doesn't have to slowly drown while it waits to die. That a dog never has to stay hooked up to oxygen to stay alive, unable to do the things that brought it joy. The animals that really should be relieved of their suffering, but are taken home against recommendation, are the cases that keep me awake at night. Sometime in the future, I believe human euthanasia will become increasingly available for those that have no other choice and are suffering greatly. Until then, our sickest humans live their final days in great pain, waiting for it to be over.

Like you said, more isn't always better. Vet med also brings up the ethical debate of consent and what we are putting animals through when they don't understand what's going on. They won't understand that the intense pain they feel after a surgery (TPLO, for example) will go away and they will have a better QOL in time. We as owners/vets decide that for them. We also decide when it is time for euthanasia, too. So not to say it's perfect over here of course, I just could never be envious of a field that often loses sight of the patient in favor of the treatment.

Sorry, got heavy there, but I have a lot of feels about this!

No, thanks so much for getting into all the heavy stuff, I really appreciate the perspective. I definitely agree that ending suffering is a good thing and I haven't struggled as much with the cases that feel more clear cut, e.g. your CHF example, or a goat I met with severe bladder necrosis and constant urethral blockages who had already had multiple surgeries. I'm really glad we had the option to let him go peacefully and I also think people deserve to be able to choose not to spend their last days suffering as well.

The cases I struggle with are the ones that are more borderline - septic neonatal alpaca euthanized because a plasma transfusion and other supportive care was more expensive than just breeding the mom again, for example. It may also be that I'm spending a lot of time with production animals and the calculation for what intervention is "worth it" is just so different than it is in small animal.

I think you're totally right that vet med brings that ethical debate to the forefront and that's a good thing. We should be considering every aspect of the treatments we choose and doing what's best for the patient. Thanks again for sharing - I think it's really easy for me to get in my own head about things and you provided a lot of really great perspective.