Third year: really better?

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Alright, so some of our third- and fourth years have told us that M3 is a whole new kind of suck, but that it's still better than M1/M2 in its own way. Have seen lots of SDN posts saying the same.

For the M3s / new M4s: what do you think?
 
No news here. Third year is tough, but it's finally what you've been looking for out of medical school. It's no surprise that a long anticipated experience, no matter how miserable, is still considered worthwhile.
 
For me, third year was WAY better at first. You get to actually pretend to take care of patients (you'll at least get to interact with them and see a lot of the physical exam findings you only previously READ about) and put some of your knowledge to use. This was incredibly exciting for me at first.

However, after a few months, you'll find other things that suck (shelf exams, evals -- everybody eventually gets (a) bad one(s), brutal schedules, douchebag residents and attendings that don't really care, etc) and also the novelty of the stuff I wrote about in the last paragraph has worn off some. Overall, though, I think 3rd year was much better than 2nd year.
 
exi said:
Alright, so some of our third- and fourth years have told us that M3 is a whole new kind of suck, but that it's still better than M1/M2 in its own way. Have seen lots of SDN posts saying the same.

For the M3s / new M4s: what do you think?
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3rd year blows at times because you have way less control of your free time. But it's also a lot better to be out of the classroom and not have to spend as much time studying.
 
I've actually liked 3rd year better across the board. It's SO much better than studying crap minutiae all day, every day. Then again, I haven't been out to crush the shelf exams or anything, so all the supposed added stress of studying while working long hours is nonexistent for me.
 
MilkmanAl said:
I've actually liked 3rd year better across the board. It's SO much better than studying crap minutiae all day, every day. Then again, I haven't been out to crush the shelf exams or anything, so all the supposed added stress of studying while working long hours is nonexistent for me.
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Doing well on the shelf exams 3rd year is significantly easier and less time consuming than doing well 2nd year IMO.

IM may have been the only shelf that required pretty consistent studying throughout the rotation.

But I guess it depends on what your school requires for honors. 90+ isn't easy and have only hit that on 2/5 shelf exams but 80+ is pretty doable with a decent amount of work
 
Oh yeah, I totally agree. I'm just saying that a lot of people have their days extended a bit by coming home and studying, but I typically don't. However, I have put a decent amount of work into my medicine rotation so far.
 
Maybe I've just gotten more jaded than others somehow, but I didn't think 3rd year was all that great, definitely not as awesome as people made it sound. Some moments were definitely better than 2nd year, but in my opinion there were a lot more that sucked, which tips the balance in the negative for me.

I mean, you can't really compare getting up at 10am and studying in your nice cozy room with some coffee, to getting up at 04:30am, doing something you hate and then getting yelled at by sucky residents.

I dunno... I guess the highs were a lot higher, and the lows a lot lower.

I'm looking forward to 4th year though! From what I hear, it's the best year of medical school! I just hope I match :luck:

Good luck to the rising 3rd years! It's definitely a wild ride.
 
PistolPete said:
Maybe I've just gotten more jaded than others somehow, but I didn't think 3rd year was all that great, definitely not as awesome as people made it sound. Some moments were definitely better than 2nd year, but in my opinion there were a lot more that sucked, which tips the balance in the negative for me.

I mean, you can't really compare getting up at 10am and studying in your nice cozy room with some coffee, to getting up at 04:30am, doing something you hate and then getting yelled at by sucky residents.

I dunno... I guess the highs were a lot higher, and the lows a lot lower.

I'm looking forward to 4th year though! From what I hear, it's the best year of medical school! I just hope I match :luck:

Good luck to the rising 3rd years! It's definitely a wild ride.
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You also can't compare having 1 important exam every 8 weeks to having 5-6 important exams in 1 week every 4-5 weeks.

Also getting up at 430 was only 1/6 rotations for me and I rarely got yelled at by residents
 
It all depends on your personality. For the scientific minded shy, pathetic and timid losers who'd rather read and do research 3rd year is miserable. It all a political game of ass kissing and faking enthusiasm all the while gritting your teeth while trying not to stab your gunner classmates, apethetic and arrogant attendings, histrionic and whinny residents who outsource thier scut work and treat you like garbage and support staff who are out right hostile to medical students. By the way 90% of the things I learned 3rd year I read in books.

Can't wait till M4 where i'll just see a few patients write my notes give my recommendations (which will be wrong and I won't care) and shut down my brain by 9am and play on my phone until afternoon. Then I'll get home by 3pm and play xbox all day because I won't have to study.
 
SGuttenberg said:
It all depends on your personality. For the scientific minded shy, pathetic and timid losers who'd rather read and do research 3rd year is miserable. It all a political game of ass kissing and faking enthusiasm all the while gritting your teeth while trying not to stab your gunner classmates, apethetic and arrogant attendings, histrionic and whinny residents who outsource thier scut work and treat you like garbage and support staff who are out right hostile to medical students. By the way 90% of the things I learned 3rd year I read in books.

Can't wait till M4 where i'll just see a few patients write my notes give my recommendations (which will be wrong and I won't care) and shut down my brain by 9am and play on my phone until afternoon. Then I'll get home by 3pm and play xbox all day because I won't have to study.
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I guess my medical school is the exception because I have experienced little of the above.
 
Idk, I thought 3rd year was fun at times. I generally had fun on rotations, with the exception of IM. I think it would be a lot better were it P/F or if the evaluations had at least some pretense of consistency. This is despite knowing that I had no intention of going into any of the fields that I experienced in any of the core rotations. Interestingly, the rotation I probably had the most fun (psych) in is quite possibly the furthest from what I'm actually going into (rads, specifically interventional)

Kinda interesting, I guess.

As far as the shelf exams go, I guess they're pretty challenging, but you're also better at them because you're doing clinical things. I spent pretty minimal time studying for the shelves and averaged in the high 90s aggregately (raw).
 
SGuttenberg said:
It all depends on your personality. For the scientific minded shy, pathetic and timid losers who'd rather read and do research 3rd year is miserable. It all a political game of ass kissing and faking enthusiasm all the while gritting your teeth while trying not to stab your gunner classmates, apethetic and arrogant attendings, histrionic and whinny residents who outsource thier scut work and treat you like garbage and support staff who are out right hostile to medical students. By the way 90% of the things I learned 3rd year I read in books.

Can't wait till M4 where i'll just see a few patients write my notes give my recommendations (which will be wrong and I won't care) and shut down my brain by 9am and play on my phone until afternoon. Then I'll get home by 3pm and play xbox all day because I won't have to study.
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Where do you go to school? Sorry you've had such a crap experience.
 
I think 3rd year was better than the first 2 because it is actualy clinical medicine. No more sitting in an large room with a bunch of over-achievers listening to some PhD go on and on are the molecular pathology and physiology of system (X). I loved the transition into seeing actualy patients with actual problems. Seeing how medicine is really practiced as opposed to some idealized version you are taught in year 1/2.
 
drizzt3117 said:
Idk, I thought 3rd year was fun at times. I generally had fun on rotations, with the exception of IM. I think it would be a lot better were it P/F or if the evaluations had at least some pretense of consistency. This is despite knowing that I had no intention of going into any of the fields that I experienced in any of the core rotations. Interestingly, the rotation I probably had the most fun (psych) in is quite possibly the furthest from what I'm actually going into (rads, specifically interventional)

Kinda interesting, I guess.

As far as the shelf exams go, I guess they're pretty challenging, but you're also better at them because you're doing clinical things. I spent pretty minimal time studying for the shelves and averaged in the high 90s aggregately (raw).
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:clap:

And I thought I was doing something with my little 88.5 average
 
So far my MS3 year is chock full of ridiculously stupid busy work that inhibits my ability to actually study about the rotation I'm doing. Do any of you have a crap ton of ethics papers, clinical correlate papers, and random 3-4 page essays on some topic or other, during your rotation? These things on top of an end of the rotation test.
 
At first it's way better since you're finally out of the classroom, but after a few rotations it gets old being the person who everyone rolls their eyes at when they first see (patients, nurses, residents, etc).
 
Third year is the worst. Not only do you have to continue to study for qmonthly tests despite being at the hospital all day, you also have no clue what you're doing and constantly feel out of place, useless, or ignorant. Grading is subjective and people make snap judgements about you based on very little interaction. Fourth year is much better. Even intern year is better.
 
exi said:
Where do you go to school? Sorry you've had such a crap experience.
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Well I doubt my classmates would quite focus as much on the negative, but I just have a hard time with the social games aspect of 3rd year (subjective evals) and feel it hinders learning.

I definately think being P/F (as far as subjective grades go) would improve learning and remove needless stress.
 
3rd year here was a total blast. Rotated through medicine and surgery, everything had novelty value (like being a cannula pro).

4th year is teh suck. All these speciality rotations. Lots are *yawn*.
 
I enjoyed third year. Work hours were long, but the work was good. Fourth year ROCKED after interview season. During interview season I was away from home for months to be more local to my interview areas, so that sucked. After that, however, hours were good, work was fun, and it was all great.
 
I will probably be one of the few to disagree.

3rd year was nice in that you got to learn clinical medicine and see patients and pretend to participate in their care. The latter was also what sucked. Perhaps it's different at other medical schools but our patient responsibilities here were not adequate. We couldn't put in orders nor were we very involved in procedures and overall management of the patient. We "carried" patients to the extent where we had to show up early to pre-round and present them but its not like the resident didn't already know everything about the patient's progress. So essentially it was a show put on at our expense.

THAT was frustrating; doing work that contributed to nothing.

Not being able to manage your own schedule and being at the mercy of the team also made the day a lot more frustrating and "scary." The thought of being in clinic all day to avoid being in the OR only to be dragged into the OR after clinic is scary.
 
Third year sucked. It's the time when I realized that being good at what you do is but a minor component to your success in medicine. The rest hinges on the moods of your preceptors, walking tall ignorantly, and making up stories about how you either 1. want to go into your evaluators specialty or 2. are undecided(though you really want ROAD but don't want to say because of sour grapes)

Success and sucks ass sound similar for a reason, and third year reminded me of this.
 
third year is a nightmare if you're already certain you want to do a ROAD before it starts
 
I like that I'm not the only one to think 3rd year was overhyped 2nd year.

4th year presents its own challenges especially while rotating through the specialty of your choice.
 
Sheldor said:
Ahh, now I see. I didn't pay attention to the location under his username...

Thanks!
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Our 4th year is comparative to your third year. Our fifth year is a year of chilling, choose your own rotations, little bit of medicine, little bit of surgery, travel the world for a few months, graduate...can't wait!
 
VoiceofReason said:
third year is a nightmare if you're already certain you want to do a ROAD before it starts
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I don't know if I'd call it a nightmare, but knowing what you want to do certainly makes some of the rotations a hell of a lot less interesting. Peds comes to mind. Like I said in another thread, I got quite a lot of blank stares and some "...Oh...uh..well..." when I told people I was set on anesthesia. If the attendings can't even come up with a reason why I should be there, it's definitely not going to be easy for me to.
 
MilkmanAl said:
I don't know if I'd call it a nightmare, but knowing what you want to do certainly makes some of the rotations a hell of a lot less interesting. Peds comes to mind. Like I said in another thread, I got quite a lot of blank stares and some "...Oh...uh..well..." when I told people I was set on anesthesia. If the attendings can't even come up with a reason why I should be there, it's definitely not going to be easy for me to.
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cuz anesthesiologists don't take care of kids? I mean I could see them thinking that if you told them you were going into geriatrics.
 
I've generally tried to avoid telling residents/attendings what I'm going into, especially if they start bashing the specialty I want to do, then ask "So... what do you want to do when you grow up?"
 
MilkmanAl said:
I don't know if I'd call it a nightmare, but knowing what you want to do certainly makes some of the rotations a hell of a lot less interesting. Peds comes to mind. Like I said in another thread, I got quite a lot of blank stares and some "...Oh...uh..well..." when I told people I was set on anesthesia. If the attendings can't even come up with a reason why I should be there, it's definitely not going to be easy for me to.
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I have a very low tolerance for having my time wasted
 
Sheldor said:
First time I've ever heard this... Seems like everyone portrays 4th year as the promise land.
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It's not. The second half was, but the first half was not. Medicine and surgery sub-I, ERAS, interviews, Step 2 CS and CK, interviews and more interviews = stressful.

xanthomondo said:
At first it's way better since you're finally out of the classroom, but after a few rotations it gets old being the person who everyone rolls their eyes at when they first see (patients, nurses, residents, etc).
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Yep. That's probably the best part about being a resident. You're actually useful.

drizzt3117 said:
residency is gonna suck then.
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I have a lot less down-time and boring moments as a resident. There is always something I should be doing...
 
VoiceofReason said:
I have a very low tolerance for having my time wasted
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Amen

I don't mind 3rd year so far... granted I'm on FM but I like learning the new clinical stuff instead of having to memorize stupid buzzwords like all of preclinical years
 
xanthomondo said:
At first it's way better since you're finally out of the classroom, but after a few rotations it gets old being the person who everyone rolls their eyes at when they first see (patients, nurses, residents, etc).
Click to expand...

I agree this is annoying when you get no respect... not that we deserve any. My point is that at least the residents should not do this crap. I mean come on... they were med students not that long ago. Nurses I could care less about. It'll still kinda bug me but they're nurses so who gives a ***t. Patients I generally don't care about either in the same sense. They soon realize we know nothing so whatever. I'll never see them again after several days.

Anyway, yes 3rd seems good in the beginning but then it starts to suck. You realize how much of your time is being wasted. Some rotations are better than others. But it's not all bad. The thing that bugs me the most is waking up early. Jeez that is annoying. Waking up at like 4:45 am. I pretty much never went to class the first 2 years so it was awesome just sleeping in till whenever.
 
drizzt3117 said:
cuz anesthesiologists don't take care of kids? I mean I could see them thinking that if you told them you were going into geriatrics.
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Nah, I could see that. 90% of my time on peds was spent calculating urine output in ml/kg/hr and trying to read my attending's mind on what antibiotic they thought tasted the best. Not really educationally useful for an anesthesiologist, or any specialty, for that matter.
 
turkeyjerky said:
Nah, I could see that. 90% of my time on peds was spent calculating urine output in ml/kg/hr and trying to read my attending's mind on what antibiotic they thought tasted the best. Not really educationally useful for an anesthesiologist, or any specialty, for that matter.
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:laugh::laugh:
 
drizzt3117 said:
cuz anesthesiologists don't take care of kids? I mean I could see them thinking that if you told them you were going into geriatrics.
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clearly you cant discriminate between whats important to an anesthesiologist and what isnt (i'll give you a hint: its not antibiotic flavors, growth charts, developmental milestones, or breast milk)
 
VoiceofReason said:
clearly you cant discriminate between whats important to an anesthesiologist and what isnt (i'll give you a hint: its not antibiotic flavors, growth charts, developmental milestones, or breast milk)
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Some stuff on inpatient seemed relevant but most of peds isn't
 
officedepot said:
I agree this is annoying when you get no respect... not that we deserve any. My point is that at least the residents should not do this crap. I mean come on... they were med students not that long ago. Nurses I could care less about. It'll still kinda bug me but they're nurses so who gives a ***t. Patients I generally don't care about either in the same sense. They soon realize we know nothing so whatever. I'll never see them again after several days.

Anyway, yes 3rd seems good in the beginning but then it starts to suck. You realize how much of your time is being wasted. Some rotations are better than others. But it's not all bad. The thing that bugs me the most is waking up early. Jeez that is annoying. Waking up at like 4:45 am. I pretty much never went to class the first 2 years so it was awesome just sleeping in till whenever.
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You clearly underestimate how much of a power trip people can have when given even a small amount of it lol 😛

Otherwise I agree, waking up early kinda sucks. I also never went to class during preclinical years and having to be at a certain place for a certain amount of time (often doing nothing) absolutely sucks
 
VoiceofReason said:
clearly you cant discriminate between whats important to an anesthesiologist and what isnt (i'll give you a hint: its not antibiotic flavors, growth charts, developmental milestones, or breast milk)
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I agree a lot of the stuff in peds if you're not doing peds is useless (even useless for some of the peds specialties like neonatology, heme/onc, etc) but it depends kind of on your attitude as a doctor no? I want to go into a surgical subspecialty but if the need arises I'd like to have at least a basic working knowledge of pediatrics
 
VoiceofReason said:
clearly you cant discriminate between whats important to an anesthesiologist and what isnt (i'll give you a hint: its not antibiotic flavors, growth charts, developmental milestones, or breast milk)
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After fellowship I'll probably never take care of a kid for the rest of my professional career, but I still found peds a useful rotation, I guess it's what you make of it.

In residency, you're going to place IVs in kids, which is as traumatic if not more than anything a pediatrician will do. A little bedside manner might help, no?
 
drizzt3117 said:
In residency, you're going to place IVs in kids, which is as traumatic if not more than anything a pediatrician will do. A little bedside manner might help, no?
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+100

I've talked to kids with cancer who need surgery and they were way more concerned about the details of how they were getting knocked out for surgery than they were about the fact that they had cancer. (will it hurt, is it scary, what if they don't wake up, what if they have a nightmare while "sleeping", etc.)
 
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