This sums up how I feel about student loan forgiveness

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The only other fiscally viable option would be to continue the current system without forgiveness. Paying people back is going to screw someone (how far back do you go etc) and costs actual revenue to do, unlike loan forgiveness, which could largely be budget neutral if the government stops offering loans altogether

Or people can just pay back the loans that they took out, like the rest of us. Pharmacists and other professionals who make over 6 figures have no excuse to have student loans unpaid. We paid ours off in under 3 years and it wasn't hard to do.

Can I get my mortgage forgiven too? How about if I bought a Ferrari, can that be forgiven?

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Or people can just pay back the loans that they took out, like the rest of us. Pharmacists and other professionals who make over 6 figures have no excuse to have student loans unpaid. We paid ours off in under 3 years and it wasn't hard to do.

Can I get my mortgage forgiven too? How about if I bought a Ferrari, can that be forgiven?
The government hasn't built a broken system encouraging the buying of Ferraris and subsidizing the same. Government backed student loans shouldn't exist, and the only good way to deal with the problem is to write off the whole system and to start anew.
 
The government hasn't built a broken system encouraging the buying of Ferraris and subsidizing the same. Government backed student loans shouldn't exist, and the only good way to deal with the problem is to write off the whole system and to start anew.
Or just stop offering the loans and still require payment of existing ones.
 
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The government hasn't built a broken system encouraging the buying of Ferraris and subsidizing the same. Government backed student loans shouldn't exist, and the only good way to deal with the problem is to write off the whole system and to start anew.

Or people can just pay back their loans.
 
Or just stop offering the loans and still require payment of existing ones.
The long term effects on the economy would be substantially better if we just forgave them. Like, from an economics perspective it makes way more sense than ending loans and forcing repayments.

I say all of this as a person who is actually paying my loans back in their entirety. I don't care if I'm eligible for forgiveness because I honestly don't need it, but the system as it functions now is crippling future economic growth.
 
The long term effects on the economy would be substantially better if we just forgave them. Like, from an economics perspective it makes way more sense than ending loans and forcing repayments.

I say all of this as a person who is actually paying my loans back in their entirety. I don't care if I'm eligible for forgiveness because I honestly don't need it, but the system as it functions now is crippling future economic growth.

If forgiving loans would make the economy substantially better then why not give everyone a rebate too? How is giving someone $200k to pay off their loans different from giving me the $200k that I already paid?

Let me ask you this, if you paid off your house and a few years later Bernie or whoever wanted to forgive your neighbor's mortgage but give you nothing, would you support that?
 
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The government hasn't built a broken system encouraging the buying of Ferraris and subsidizing the same. Government backed student loans shouldn't exist, and the only good way to deal with the problem is to write off the whole system and to start anew.

Are any of the current Democratic runners’ student loans forgiveness plans involve stopping student lending? I wasn’t aware of it.
 
If forgiving loans would make the economy substantially better then why not give everyone a rebate too? How is giving someone $200k to pay off their loans different from giving me the $200k that I already paid?

Let me ask you this, if you paid off your house and a few years later Bernie or whoever wanted to forgive your neighbor's mortgage but give you nothing, would you support that?
The difference is this money has already been distributed. There is no net cost to forgiveness if future loans are not offered, but there is a substantial cost to tax rebates or refunds that would come from the budgets of other programs. The student loan system is largely funded internally and not by appropriated funds, it is completely apples to oranges.
Are any of the current Democratic runners’ student loans forgiveness plans involve stopping student lending? I wasn’t aware of it.
I'm not a Democrat. This is my proposal.
 
The role of the government is to pick winners and losers.
Heard of corn subsidies? farm subsidies? $20 billion EACH year.
Heard banks got bailed out in 2008?
Medicare?
Winners are ppl who vote.
Farmers vote. The rich vote. Elderly vote.
Want student loan forgiveness? Just vote if you're in debt.
Want car loan forgiveness? Just vote if you're a car buyer and in debt.
Taxpayers always pay tax any way. Inflation is also always there anyway.
Government keeps spending every year anyway. They borrow more and more every year any way. They tax ppl just to pay interest only. So don't worry about higher tax. It'll be not much higher.
1.6 trillion is not much, lol.
If they don't spend and give that amount to students, they'll give it to the banks anyway, lol.
Just vote!
 
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The difference is this money has already been distributed. There is no net cost to forgiveness if future loans are not offered, but there is a substantial cost to tax rebates or refunds that would come from the budgets of other programs. The student loan system is largely funded internally and not by appropriated funds, it is completely apples to oranges.

I'm not a Democrat. This is my proposal.

If you are looking for a handout then just say so. Mortgage and auto loans have already been distributed and by your logic, we should also forgive those too.
 
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Huh can we give everyone a million dollar loan and then forgive it? It would be free since the money had already been distributed after all.


Am I getting that logic right? Because it sounds insane to me.
 
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The long term effects on the economy would be substantially better if we just forgave them. Like, from an economics perspective it makes way more sense than ending loans and forcing repayments.

I say all of this as a person who is actually paying my loans back in their entirety. I don't care if I'm eligible for forgiveness because I honestly don't need it, but the system as it functions now is crippling future economic growth.
We disagree on the economics
 
If you are looking for a handout then just say so. Mortgage and auto loans have already been distributed and by your logic, we should also forgive those too.
They're no longer funded directly by the government.
We disagree on the economics
Please give me a logical explanation of how relieving all student loan debt and no longer providing any student loans will hurt GDP
 
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Also, like I said, I'm not looking for a handout. I intend to pay my loans but would hold no ill will toward those whose loans were forgiven merely because I paid mine off
 
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Someone really needs to explain why the irresponsible should benefit over responsible people.

It's not like the responsible ones all had the ability to pay back their loans easily. They made a decision to pay it back.

Simply look at the people here. There's no reason any pharmacist who has been working "X" amount of years should still have loans yet some still have over $100k while others have it all paid off.

So congrats you just made $100k???

Yes I understand not everyone can pay it back that easily but for every teacher that is paying the minimum there are also teachers that paid it back.

We should not reward those that didn't/don't have a plan to pay back their loans.
 
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They're no longer funded directly by the government.

Please give me a logical explanation of how relieving all student loan debt and no longer providing any student loans will hurt GDP
Erasing any receivable reduces the balance sheets. That money could be put to debt service or used to allow further tax reductions elsewhere and at this point the populace who doesn’t have outstanding loans would have simply been pillaged by those who do

It’s a bad plan
 
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They're no longer funded directly by the government.

Please give me a logical explanation of how relieving all student loan debt and no longer providing any student loans will hurt GDP

Your logic is wracked:

1) if the government forgives loan then there is no impact? Why did Bernie propose a tax to pay for it then?

2) Freddie/Fannie are own by the government. They can forgive my mortgage then!

Why are you only advocating for student loan forgiveness? How much student loan do you have?
 
Someone really needs to explain why the irresponsible should benefit over responsible people.
I'm not saying it's the case here, but in macroeconomics, people frequently make the mistake that good economics needs to be a play on good morality. The people that caused the housing credit crisis that nearly lead to a depression got bailed out. It wasn't because they deserved it. Or that it was morally right. It was because they needed it or else the entire economy would have completely collapsed.

I could see the argument that, if left as is, the student loan bubble causing grievous harm to the economy as a whole in the long term. Though you'd still need to explain to me why members of the upper middle class need this bailout more than minimum wage workers that can barely make ends meet.
 
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the irresponsible should benefit over responsible people.
Sorry. That's what I saw in 2008. And guess what. I go with the flow.
Knowing pharmacy is saturated, I still go to pharmacy school and max out student loans. I see it'll get bailed out eventually 'cos there's no way students can pay back the loan if they don't have a job.
I never blame government gives out loans, never blame schools are greedy because that's how ppl in society are. When house prices were high in 2005, ppl took out loans to buy bc they were greedy. I saw that. With capitalism, greed is good anyway.
(Pharmacy is saturated just because it's an easy job with high pay. Don't blame student loans, don't blame schools. Blame greedy ppl who want easy job, easy learning with high pay.)
 
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The difference is this money has already been distributed. There is no net cost to forgiveness if future loans are not offered, but there is a substantial cost to tax rebates or refunds that would come from the budgets of other programs. The student loan system is largely funded internally and not by appropriated funds, it is completely apples to oranges.

I'm not a Democrat. This is my proposal.

You ignored my question, I wonder why? If you paid off your mortgage and the governornment forgives your neighbor's mortgage a year later, would you be in favor of that? If not why is that any different than student loans?
 
Your logic is wracked:

1) if the government forgives loan then there is no impact? Why did Bernie propose a tax to pay for it then?

2) Freddie/Fannie are own by the government. They can forgive my mortgage then!

Why are you only advocating for student loan forgiveness? How much student loan do you have?
1) Because he intends to keep the government in the loan business.

2) They are under conservatorship by the government, not owned by it. They are to eventually return to their status as private companies and forgiving their loans would be a violation of the government's fiduciary duties

My loans are going to be covered in full by my employer, so my debt is kind of inconsequential
 
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1) Because he intends to keep the government in the loan business.

2) They are under conservatorship by the government, not owned by it. They are to eventually return to their status as private companies and forgiving their loans would be a violation of the government's fiduciary duties

My loans are going to be covered in full by my employer, so my debt is kind of inconsequential

Doesn’t matter..the government can forgive my mortgage today if it wants to. I want my mortgage to be forgiven!

Your legs are tied by your employers. Wouldn’t it be nice if your loans are forgiven?
 
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Just to give you some context. The median home price is $226,700. You are literally giving a free home to every physician, dentist, pharmacist if you forgive their loans. How does this make sense?
 
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Doesn’t matter..the government can forgive my mortgage today if it wants to. I want my mortgage to be forgiven!

Your legs are tied by your employers. Wouldn’t it be nice if your loans are forgiven?
That's not even an argument, that's just nonsense as it falls outside if the things a fiduciary contract allows.

My legs are hardly tied, I have quite a good contract.
 
That's not even an argument, that's just nonsense as it falls outside if the things a fiduciary contract allows.

My legs are hardly tied, I have quite a good contract.

Fool, get your facts right:

ImageUploadedBySDN1582744495.523997.jpg
 
Fool, get your facts right:

View attachment 296835
This was a decision done to stabilize the portfolios of the companies, as balances were out of line with home values and some mortgage payment is worth more than zero mortgage payment. The duty of the FHFA is to stabilize the two corporations so that they can eventually be released back to the market without imploding. This was a measure that was in-line with that goal, while wiping out their balance would be a blatant violation of their duty and which would result in dissolution of both companies.
 
This was a decision done to stabilize the portfolios of the companies, as balances were out of line with home values and some mortgage payment is worth more than zero mortgage payment. The duty of the FHFA is to stabilize the two corporations so that they can eventually be released back to the market without imploding. This was a measure that was in-line with that goal, while wiping out their balance would be a blatant violation of their duty and which would result in dissolution of both companies.

You said government can’t forgive mortgages. I just proved to you they can.
 
Reducing mortgages to make people reliably pay them back because they are in line with actual market values rather than hyper inflated values is in-line with fiduciary duty. Forgiving all loans is not.

And what do you call forgiving student loans to people who can actually afford to pay it back?
 
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And what do you call forgiving student loans to people who can actually afford to pay it back?
Your reading comprehension isn't the best. The federal government has no fiduciary duty with regard to student loans, unlike mortgages. They hold them directly, not through a company they are in conservatorship of, and can therefore forgive them without breaching any duty
 
And what do you call forgiving student loans to people who can actually afford to pay it back?

Same as giving me a mortgage interest deduction even though I clearly don’t need it ‍♂️


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Your reading comprehension isn't the best. The federal government has no fiduciary duty with regard to student loans, unlike mortgages. They hold them directly, not through a company they are in conservatorship of, and can therefore forgive them without breaching any duty

You lack financial common sense. You think the government doesn’t have a fiduciary duty to protect tax payers? That is not going to stop the government. Bernie also wants to forgive medical debt. Does the government own all medical debt? Of course not but that is not going to stop Bernie from doing it.

You worry about every little details. That is why you are missing the big picture.
 
You lack financial common sense. You think the government doesn’t have a fiduciary duty to protect tax payers? That is not going to stop the government. Bernie also wants to forgive medical debt. Does the government own all medical debt? Of course not but that is not going to stop Bernie from doing it.

You worry about every little details. That is why you are missing the big picture.
Fiduciary duty is a legal term that applies to specific contracted arrangements. The government does not, in the legal sense, have a fiduciary duty to taxpayers. Even if they did, as I said, it could be argued that the benefits of loan forgiveness would far outstrip the current system. But they do not, so it is a moot point in the very real sense of the term.
 
Fiduciary duty is a legal term that applies to specific contracted arrangements.
Not necessarily. It just means that you are required to act in the best interest of a trustee. You could say that they have a fiduciary duty to citizens to uphold the US constitution, I guess. But that would be weird and probably never said by anyone ever.
 
Not necessarily. It just means that you are required to act in the best interest of a trustee. You could say that they have a fiduciary duty to citizens to uphold the US constitution, I guess. But that would be weird and probably never said by anyone ever.

I agree.

“Fiduciary duty” and “sovereign constitutional government” don’t really belong in the same thought process.

There’s a duty to uphold laws and protect the constitution...but fiduciary is just a weird term to apply here. If anything, the government has a duty to be financially agnostic unless otherwise directed, if that makes sense. The fidelity is to the law, not to the financial interests of a particular party (voters, constitution, the national debt, etc...)


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I agree.

“Fiduciary duty” and “sovereign constitutional government” don’t really belong in the same thought process.

There’s a duty to uphold laws and protect the constitution...but fiduciary is just a weird term to apply here. If anything, the government has a duty to be financially agnostic unless otherwise directed, if that makes sense. The fidelity is to the law, not to the financial interests of a particular party (voters, constitution, the national debt, etc...)


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Fiduciary duty was just an excuse. He honestly doesn’t believe it. He is one of those annoying guys who just wants you to think he is smart.
 
I like weird conversations


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Same as giving me a mortgage interest deduction even though I clearly don’t need it ‍♂


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The standard deduction is greater than my mortgage interest so I don't get to benefit from that either.
 
The standard deduction is greater than my mortgage interest so I don't get to benefit from that either.

Same but add in SALT 10k, donations, and mortgage interest....mine exceeds.

SALT will eventually become uncapped IMO...upper middle class homeowners don’t need it, but they vote.




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LMAO Warren is out! I'm pretty sure that arrogant scoffing towards that man who worked hard to pay off loans was the reason why her campaign went downhill!
 
It's not a perfect measure, but it is indicative of the lasting harms of US govt endorsed theft of land and labor, and that unequal access to reaping the benefits of the resulting economic system persist.

246 years of slavery and 89 years of segregation will take more than 6 generations to undo. Not to mention the ongoing struggles of Native American tribes.

Thank you.
It’s important to recognize as a person lacking melanin, I unfortunately owe a lot of my success to the harm that was done to others before I got here. My family was not discriminated against due to race, so they were able to buy a home in a nice neighborhood after saving for a long time. They received assets from family members when they passed on. These family members had also received assets, dating back multiple generations.

While my family isn’t known to have owned slaves, many families in the States did. And these families extracted labor freely from the bodies of others with no human rights, unjustly enriching themselves and passing this inheritance onward to their younger kin. They separated children and parents, and accorded human beings fewer rights than animals, for many generations. Then after freeing these slaves, they discriminated against them for over a century, and many continue to do so.

If you think enough time has passed that all previous multi-generational harm done to slaves and their descendants should be forgiven and forgotten, you haven’t thought about this much.
History class is important for learning the facts. I didn’t always see things this way though. Reading literature from viewpoints other than my own really humanized this and helped me see the harm that was done in an entirely new light. Slavery and the aftermath was so much worse than I was taught in school. I credit Ta-Nehisi Coates’ books with opening my eyes. Even while reading, I didn’t agree with everything, but I could really understand his reasoning and it was solid.

I wish people know more about history and poverty when talking about the riots today.
 
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LMAO Warren is out! I'm pretty sure that arrogant scoffing towards that man who worked hard to pay off loans was the reason why her campaign went downhill!

and what if Biden chooses her as VP? you already know all eyes are on Biden's pick as most don't expect him to make it thru his first term should he become President. Warren is polling highly in terms of democrats' preferred VP and it makes a fair amount of strategic sense for Biden so don't count her out quite just yet. your worst nightmare is still a possibility. i'll admit that from my perspective, the stock market is guessing a Warren pick for VP
 
What about that impacts your opinion on burning down and looting private businesses?
It makes me think how native American people have felt when white people looted and stole their land, how black people felt when white people looted their bodies, stole their labor and when they rose, white people continued to kill them....
 
It makes me think how native American people have felt when white people looted and stole their land, how black people felt when white people looted their bodies, stole their labor and when they rose, white people continued to kill them....
Cool, so burn a bunch of stuff owned by people unrelated to your problems?

That’s inappropriate
 
Cool, so burn a bunch of stuff owned by people unrelated to your problems?

That’s inappropriate
What do you mean "unrelated"? What land are you living on? What labor was used to build up this land/country/property?
 
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