Those who got accepted to Optometry Schools.

[RSX JDM Integra]

I have several concerns regarding admittance to an Optometry school. Currently, I have 2 semesters finished in the following areas; General Chemistry, General Biology, General Physics, General Anatomy and Physiology, and finishing up on Organic Chemistry (not including its labs).

Reason why I did not even take Organic Chemistry lab yet is because you are only allowed to take it once you are taking Organic Chem 2 (what I am taking now). Prior to that, it is a 2 credit course that merges O-Chem 1 and 2 Labs together, making it twice a week. I heard students are failing and trying to just earn a C at FAU so I am thinking of taking it at a Community College.

My question is, will taking Community College courses in Calculus, Organic Chemistry Labs, Speech and what not in the Summer deem my transcript less competitive? The bright side to taking Community College courses (first time) is that I won't have to pay a large amount out of my own pocket (since Florida Bright Futures is not offered in Summer semesters).

Also, I will have about 100+ credits after Summer of 07 and would like to apply to Nova Southeastern University for the Optometry program in the Fall of 08. Currently, my Science GPA is at a 2.90 and my CUM is at a 3.0. I still need to retake Organic Chemistry I over and use the forgiveness policy for my D+. The only pre-requisite that I have not fulfilled yet is a C or better in Organic Chemistry I and taking the lab. Also need to take OAT. Everything else has been fulfilled.

With that being said, if I applied in August of 07, what do you guys think my likelihood of being accepted into Optometry school be? (By the way, I do have shadowing hours, volunteering hours done at a Community Hospital, letters of recommendation.)

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[RSX JDM Integra]

Anyone?

 

[prettygreeneyes]

Unfortunately, no one can tell you your chances of admission. Your best bet is to contact the school you are interested in applying to, and set up an appointment (via telephone, in person, whatever) with the admissions rep there. You can also compare your GPA to the average GPAs at the school you are interested in at www.opted.org. Also, you didn't mention your OAT scores, which will play a big part of your admissions process.

As far as the community college classes... in general, it is best to take classes at a university, unless scheduling or finance conflicts simply can't be avoided. One or two classes is one thing... almost all of your prereqs may be quite another. The fact that you mention taking the class at a CC simply because it is less competitive is probably not a good thing. If you realize that... the admissions committee will as well.

Maybe someone else can chime in with something more helpful, but my guess is their advice will be the same. Talk to the admissions rep at the schools of your choice.

Regardless, good luck!

PGE

 

[odforme]

I [respectfully] totally disagree with PGE about CC. I took nearly all of my pre-req's at a CC due to the fact that I earned my degree over 10 yrs ago and needed to return to school to complete these pre-req's. I had a 3.2 at a well-regarded univesity so that probably helped me. I never had any school mention the CC credits and I was accepted at 5/6 schools with whom I interviewed . In your situation I don't think a few CC credits will make much difference. I don't think you should count on it being "easier" or "less competitive" though. I found my classes to be highly competitive and well taught. There was no curve at my CC, so your grade is what it is no matter if the entire class failed the exam. Not sure if this is true everywhere but keep it in mind. As the cost of education continues to increase exponentially, more and more people are attending CC's.
The other thing to keep in mind is that CC's often have fewer options than general college and may not offer the labs as a seperate class, mine were combined with the class and that was the only option. Organic Chem is hard, doesn't matter where you take it.
I think PGE is right that you should contact the school of your choice and find out what their requirements are and how they view your transcript thus far. Good Luck!

 

[prettygreeneyes]

I [respectfully] totally disagree with PGE about CC. I took nearly all of my pre-req's at a CC due to the fact that I earned my degree over 10 yrs ago and needed to return to school to complete these pre-req's. I had a 3.2 at a well-regarded univesity so that probably helped me. I never had any school mention the CC credits and I was accepted at 5/6 schools with whom I interviewed . In your situation I don't think a few CC credits will make much difference. I don't think you should count on it being "easier" or "less competitive" though. I found my classes to be highly competitive and well taught. There was no curve at my CC, so your grade is what it is no matter if the entire class failed the exam. Not sure if this is true everywhere but keep it in mind. As the cost of education continues to increase exponentially, more and more people are attending CC's.
The other thing to keep in mind is that CC's often have fewer options than general college and may not offer the labs as a seperate class, mine were combined with the class and that was the only option. Organic Chem is hard, doesn't matter where you take it.
I think PGE is right that you should contact the school of your choice and find out what their requirements are and how they view your transcript thus far. Good Luck!

I appreciate your respectful disagreement. However, I stand by my position, and maintain that your situation is completely different from the OP's. You already had a degree and were going back to take the prereqs. Therefore, in a way you had already "proved" yourself. That is a very differnt scenario from someone who is taking the prereqs at a CC from the start, and is trying to compensate for a GPA below 3.0. The OP also openly stated that he/she was taking the lab there in part because students were failing out of the lab (or class) at the university.

Before anyone even goes there, I'm not implying that community colleges are not on the same level academically as a university. (In fact, in Nevada the community college classes were often more difficult because there was no curve, and because professors there seemed to want to "compensate" for the class being perceived as easy). I took a few courses at a CC along the way, as did my husband who was recently accepted to optometry school (he also already had a degree and was going back to school for prereqs). I do believe it is a matter of perception, and in this case how the admissions committee perceives the OP's choice to take classes at a CC can help or hurt him/her.

odforme made a good point about the availability of classes as CCs. Taking a lab seperate of a lecture class wasn't an option for us in Nevada.

Again, best advice... talk to the admissions rep. Ask them what you need to do to maximize your chances of getting admitted. We can all speculate, but in the end we don't really know!

 

[IndianaOD]

I know that at least some OD schools, like the one I went to do modify GPAs based on thier list of how competitive the schools are. I have no idea how they come up with this list or how grades from 2 different institutions coming together would add up. As far as they know it may be only a tie-breaker if it comes down to two seemingly equal candidates.

My advice: Give it a try as-is. If it doesn't work, spend a year getting a related masters degree, get a good GPA and re-apply. Only a year lost.

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

Thanks for the replies all. It seems I may have been misunderstood. I meant less competitive as in will the admissions committee deem my transcript as a less competitive student if I took Spanish and Speech at a Community College. I know that it won't be easier or less competitive but I was afraid of the criticism and the stereotype that I would get taking 2 classes locally instead of a University. I do not get funded by scholarship in the Summer so I would like to take Spanish and Speech at a CC in order to acquire my B.S / B.A degree. The pre-requisites do not require Spanish or Speech (or not atleast NSU) as classes needed to be taken. I am taking these in order to get my degree at FAU because they are required to earn the degree.

I am definitely not taking any Pre-reqs at a Community College at all though. I'm just taking the classes that I need in order to get my B.S / B.A at my University and have those credits transferred.

I already finished 2 semesters of General Chem, General Bio, Micro Bio, Anatomy & Physiology, and I am finishing up my Organic Chemistry II class at my University. However, the labs that coincide with Organic Chemistry is set up mediocre. You are basically taking a lab course that will give you 2 credits and it consists of Organic Chemistry I and II lab as one course. I'm not saying it is impossible, but from my understanding NSU requires only Organic Chem I, so I was planning on taking Organic Chemistry I Lab at a CC where they are seperate and not united as 2 labs at my University (weird I know).

 

[eyelectric]

I don't think taking non-prerequisites at a CC will affect you negatively, however they might say something about the OChem lab. If they do ask definitely don't tell them you took it there because it was easier. My advice, though, would be to take PGE's advice and contact the admissions reps at all the schools you intend to apply. It will also look good to take the initiative and ask questions. The sooner you can make a positive impression, the better off you will be. Good luck!

 

[JeffChou]

I second IndianaOD's post.

Whether or not the CC classes you take really are less competitive, admissions committees will notice the school you took your courses at. I don't know how much weight they really place certain classes or how they will approach your transcript, but in general, they will take note of the institution where the units were earned. I say this because the admissions counselors who have visited our school's pre-optometry club have mentioned that they take the academic institution into account when reviewing applicants(from what I remember, SUNY, among some other schools, is mindful of your undergraduate university). Even 4 year universities are seen under subjective casts; a 3.3 from Stanford will be more impressive than a 3.3 at--and I don't want to offend anyone so I'll pick on my own school--UC Irvine. In the same tone, a 3.3 from UC Irvine will look better than a 3.3 at a lower-tier school. Again, there are sure to be discrepancies in difficulty (I've had tons of horrible teachers and horrible classes at UCI) but the admissions committee will still pay attention to how "competitive" your school is.

Now, this doesn't mean that taking courses at a CC will really hurt your chances; there are many transfer students who have matriculated into optometry school and there surely will be more. Personally, I'd take the pre-requisite science classes at my 4-year college just to be safe. If that's not an option (you've already taken them or have graduated), or you're taking unrelated classes, I wouldn't worry about it much. Good grades are still good grades.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

I second IndianaOD's post.

Whether or not the CC classes you take really are less competitive, admissions committees will notice the school you took your courses at. I don't know how much weight they really place certain classes or how they will approach your transcript, but in general, they will take note of the institution where the units were earned. I say this because the admissions counselors who have visited our school's pre-optometry club have mentioned that they take the academic institution into account when reviewing applicants(from what I remember, SUNY, among some other schools, is mindful of your undergraduate university). Even 4 year universities are seen under subjective casts; a 3.3 from Stanford will be more impressive than a 3.3 at--and I don't want to offend anyone so I'll pick on my own school--UC Irvine. In the same tone, a 3.3 from UC Irvine will look better than a 3.3 at a lower-tier school. Again, there are sure to be discrepancies in difficulty (I've had tons of horrible teachers and horrible classes at UCI) but the admissions committee will still pay attention to how "competitive" your school is.

Now, this doesn't mean that taking courses at a CC will really hurt your chances; there are many transfer students who have matriculated into optometry school and there surely will be more. Personally, I'd take the pre-requisite science classes at my 4-year college just to be safe. If that's not an option (you've already taken them or have graduated), or you're taking unrelated classes, I wouldn't worry about it much. Good grades are still good grades.

 

[iiiimonica]

dont be scared off! you'll get a great education and you get to save money. only suny cared that i did almost all of my prereq's at cc. i transfered to uc berkeley as an undergrad after completing all but about 4 prereq's and no one (IU, Houston, Pacific, Berkeley, SCCO) even mentioned it - except suny. and they accepted me as well(after i had a professor from my cc write them about the rigors of my cc). so in my experience, it really did not matter. just do your best wherever you go and make sure that optometry is what you really really want.

 

[ttn003]

hey, taking classes at a community college is a GREAT idea...I couldve done it from the very start. That is my advice to everyone....it really doesn't matter where you take your classes at because your grades are what matter. My gpa is higher because of the classes I took at a community college. They combined your UC gpa and your CC gpa...it was great...i got into a school...and will cancel my next interview =) good luck

 

[ODduck]

I have several concerns regarding admittance to an Optometry school. Currently, I have 2 semesters finished in the following areas; General Chemistry, General Biology, General Physics, General Anatomy and Physiology, and finishing up on Organic Chemistry (not including its labs).

Reason why I did not even take Organic Chemistry lab yet is because you are only allowed to take it once you are taking Organic Chem 2 (what I am taking now). Prior to that, it is a 2 credit course that merges O-Chem 1 and 2 Labs together, making it twice a week. I heard students are failing and trying to just earn a C at FAU so I am thinking of taking it at a Community College.

My question is, will taking Community College courses in Calculus, Organic Chemistry Labs, Speech and what not in the Summer deem my transcript less competitive? The bright side to taking Community College courses (first time) is that I won't have to pay a large amount out of my own pocket (since Florida Bright Futures is not offered in Summer semesters).

Also, I will have about 100+ credits after Summer of 07 and would like to apply to Nova Southeastern University for the Optometry program in the Fall of 08. Currently, my Science GPA is at a 2.90 and my CUM is at a 3.0. I still need to retake Organic Chemistry I over and use the forgiveness policy for my D+. The only pre-requisite that I have not fulfilled yet is a C or better in Organic Chemistry I and taking the lab. Also need to take OAT. Everything else has been fulfilled.

With that being said, if I applied in August of 07, what do you guys think my likelihood of being accepted into Optometry school be? (By the way, I do have shadowing hours, volunteering hours done at a Community Hospital, letters of recommendation.)

There is no shame in taking O-Chem I twice, I did it. Show an upward trend on your GPA, do well on the OAT, and give a great interview you will be fine. I got into Pacific doing those 3 things. Good luck and don't let anybody tell you that you can't do it.

 

[aam0050]

There is no shame in taking O-Chem I twice, I did it. Show an upward trend on your GPA, do well on the OAT, and give a great interview you will be fine. I got into Pacific doing those 3 things. Good luck and don't let anybody tell you that you can't do it.

That's exactly what I went through as well. It's not the end of the world with a mess up like that, just be able to pick yourself up.

 

[ttn003]

here is something to make u feel better.....I took chem6c twice, biology 1 twice, metabolic biochemistry twice...and will be taking mamphys twice... =)

 

[ODduck]

That's exactly what I went through as well. It's not the end of the world with a mess up like that, just be able to pick yourself up.

EXACTLY!! Never give up! If you really want to be an optometrist then you can will yourself through all of these tedious science classes. Nothing feels better than overcoming the hard times and reaching your goal.

 

[IndianaOD]

EXACTLY!! Never give up! If you really want to be an optometrist then you can will yourself through all of these tedious science classes. Nothing feels better than overcoming the hard times and reaching your goal.

All that hard work and some ODs choose to spend their days turning knobs on a phoropter for walmart. Amazing isn't it. Its like being Tiger Woods and only playing putt-putt.

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

Wow after all these replies, I certainly do feel better because it allows me to know that I am not the only one and that there is still hope. Thanks alot for the advice. I completely understand where you guys are coming from.

Those that came from CC, you still got accepted because you proved not only your grades but what you are capable of on a personal level.

Those who are telling me that it is not recommended to take CC courses for pre-reqs, I also hear your voice. It is true, even I would wonder why the majority of courses were taken at University institutions then a small amount there-after at a CC. If it was from CC to University then thats jumping the ladder. But I do see your point. The only problem is, I know I don't need O-Chem II lab and I don't see why I should take the O-Chem Lab at my school which combined O-Chem I and II labs into one course. That is why I want to take it at a CC where they count seperately.

 

[PepsiSucks]

ochem II lab might not be needed for nova, but some schools do require the full year of ochem with lab. So just to be safe for the worst case scenario, you should take it anyway.

 

[nova2010]

As far as you worrying about acceptance, let me tell you GPA and OAT's. Trust me!!! Get all your required Pre-Opt requirements and major is whatever. Believe me!!!! Get that GPA up as high as possible. Study for the OAT's (Kaplan works) I went the hard way, thinking a biology/chemistry degree would be impressive, even though my GPA was lower than what would have liked. They say the classes are weighted (bull!!) GPA GPA GPA. Get your requirements done and work in grades, then study for OAT's. I'm in, but it was harder with a lower
GPA. They were not impressed at all in my science degree.

 

[ttay2002]

I was accepted to both Indiana and Ohio. Spent 3 years goofing around in CC. Took most of the basic science classes there. Two years at a state college. Ave GPA 3.0. Oat 390 for the science stuff - the other score was lower due to the reading portion (can't remember exact number). No Bacheler's degree - never graduated state college.

 

[still_confused]

I was accepted to both Indiana and Ohio. Spent 3 years goofing around in CC. Took most of the basic science classes there. Two years at a state college. Ave GPA 3.0. Oat 390 for the science stuff - the other score was lower due to the reading portion (can't remember exact number). No Bacheler's degree - never graduated state college.

congrats on getting into highly competitive schools!

 

[ttay2002]

Thanks. BTW, I think the interview is a huge part of things - if you get that far course.

 

[nova2010]

It sounds almost like you didn't care during your undergrad. There are so many people that would do anything to get accepted in opt school, so don't make it sound so easy. Sometimes we wonder if no effort is put into it, what kind of a work ethic will you have as an OD? Most put their heart and soul into undergrad, so using the term "goofing around" sounds lazy. Maybe that's not how you meant it, but that's what I got out of that statement.

 

[nova2010]

I knew someone that went to a 4 yr. community college and ended up with a 4.0 and, of course, got accepted right away. Except, after he got to opt school, he struggled and was one who had to take the boards twice. Just one case, though.

 

[ttay2002]

The truth is I had no idea what I wanted to do. I didn't have much money and I didn't want to ask my parents for help. I worked grave shift full-time while attending school full-time. Yes, I got some financial aid and some undergrad loans. So you are absolutely right. I did not put my heart and soul into undergrad.

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

I thought you needed atleast 30 credits at a State University before getting accepted into an Opt / Pharm / Dental school though?

I have a 3.0 average right now. My science is pretty low though, 2.9? do you highly recommend taking Kaplans? I want to save money and just buy the book review and take my time and practice from there instead.

and yeah, goofing off sounds like me even though it isn't what it seems to be. I just didn't take it serious but I know I can be serious when I want to be. The poster didn't mean to get an impression like that but that's what it may seem if someone doesn't know them on a personal level.

 

[PepsiSucks]

There is no such thing as a 4 year community college, you may have to stay four years but most if not all are 2 year program with the intention of transferring to a 4-year program - and you won't get anymore than an AA.

 

[ttay2002]

I don't remember about the 30 credit thing but I'm sure I had more than 30 from state c.

I took Kaplan and found it helpful. didn't attend the lecture and lightly used their booklets. I used the practice exams to guide me what specific topics to study.

 

[bournehall]

Could not agree more. I believe the CC system is about the best return on investment around these days. Face the facts, getting into optometry school these days is not much of a competition to begin with. I would not be surprised if in reality there were not close to more seats than applicants.

I [respectfully] totally disagree with PGE about CC. I took nearly all of my pre-req's at a CC due to the fact that I earned my degree over 10 yrs ago and needed to return to school to complete these pre-req's. I had a 3.2 at a well-regarded univesity so that probably helped me. I never had any school mention the CC credits and I was accepted at 5/6 schools with whom I interviewed . In your situation I don't think a few CC credits will make much difference. I don't think you should count on it being "easier" or "less competitive" though. I found my classes to be highly competitive and well taught. There was no curve at my CC, so your grade is what it is no matter if the entire class failed the exam. Not sure if this is true everywhere but keep it in mind. As the cost of education continues to increase exponentially, more and more people are attending CC's.
The other thing to keep in mind is that CC's often have fewer options than general college and may not offer the labs as a seperate class, mine were combined with the class and that was the only option. Organic Chem is hard, doesn't matter where you take it.
I think PGE is right that you should contact the school of your choice and find out what their requirements are and how they view your transcript thus far. Good Luck!

 

[nova2010]

Sorry, I was wrong about the 4 yr. CC comment. I talked to my friend and he told me he attended 2 yrs. with a 4.0 and then applied during his Jr. year and got accepted, early admission. But, did struggle throught opt school. He did graduate and his successful in private practice.

 

[nova2010]

Sorry, didn't mean to come down on you about not caring enough. The truth is a lot of people don't know what they want to do and dig a hole for themselves while "finding themselves" Then, when you decide that professional school is what you want, it may be difficult to get that GPA up to be noticed, or taken seriously. Really, I do wish you well.

 

[nova2010]

bournehall,
Are you serious???? There were over 600 applicants in my class and ony had 75 seats. Where are all these vacancies?

 

[KHE]

bournehall,
Are you serious???? There were over 600 applicants in my class and ony had 75 seats. Where are all these vacancies?

The problem is that most of those people probably also applied to other schools. You have to look at the total number of individual applicants vs the total number of available slots. If someone wants to go to optometry school, most people can find a place to go.

 

[cpw]

The problem is that most of those people probably also applied to other schools. You have to look at the total number of individual applicants vs the total number of available slots. If someone wants to go to optometry school, most people can find a place to go.

KHE is correct... most people apply to three or four schools. The school has 600 applications, but if they don't get into your school with 75 spots, they'll most likely get in somewhere else. If you look at INDIVIDUAL number of applicants vs number of seats, your odds are very good of getting in. Granted, you do have to at least be qualified and/or competitive.

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

Would it be foolish if I just wanted to go to Nova only? I mean I do not want to go out of state at all.

 

[FL Opt Girl]

Would it be foolish if I just wanted to go to Nova only? I mean I do not want to go out of state at all.

I feel the exact same way. I am also a Florida resident and cannot imagine living anywhere else. I can't handle cold weather too well.

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

bump for an answer

 

[Ben Chudner]

Would it be foolish if I just wanted to go to Nova only? I mean I do not want to go out of state at all.

It is not foolish to want to go to Nova only, just short-sighted. This is a perfect opportunity to see another part of the country and live somewhere you never thought you would. You can always go back to Florida when you graduate, but you may find that there are other places you like even more. Plus, if you really want to go to optometry school, it is smart to apply to more than one just in case. If you get into every school you apply to, choosing which one to attend is a much better problem to have then having to reapply to Nova because you didn't get in to the only school you tried.

 

[JMU07]

Would it be foolish if I just wanted to go to Nova only? I mean I do not want to go out of state at all.

I don't want to go out of state either, but I don't have a choice lol

I do only want to go to SCO though, honestly, I don't want to go anywhere else. I plan on applying to 3 or 4 schools though, in case I don't get in.

 

[Optimum]

You should just apply to a few schools if you really want to do optometry so you dont regret later on. GOODLUCK TO EVERYONE!!!

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

Well, with all this being said, after this summer, I should be finishing up the Kaplan OAT during August and plan to take OATs during August right after the Kaplan course in order to guarantee the fresh material that was reviewed to be applied onto the exam.

I will have 90 credits after summer too which is what they want applicants to have prior to being matriculated into some of the schools prefering degrees. (Nova and others).

Would any of you recommend on applying during August after OATs and having 90 credits with a ~3.1 GPA and a decent OAT score of around 300+?

Like I said, I really want to get into Nova before graduating at my current University in order to get a B.S. in Vision and Health Sciences.

 

[JeffChou]

I feel the exact same way. I am also a Florida resident and cannot imagine living anywhere else. I can't handle cold weather too well.

If you're worried about weather, look into SCCO. On average, it only gets as cold as 60 during winter days and the summers are not humid.

I also wanted to get out of my hometown so I applied to east coast schools.

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

If you're worried about weather, look into SCCO. On average, it only gets as cold as 60 during winter days and the summers are not humid.

I also wanted to get out of my hometown so I applied to east coast schools.

did you get into any east coast schools?

 

[JeffChou]

did you get into any east coast schools?

Nope. Not yet.

Actually I applied to 2 on the east coast and ICO. SUNY didn't like my first two years and I suspect that's what's holding back any decision from the other two schools. I'll probably reapply to more schools with my recovering gpa.

Good Luck!

 

[Clovers]

How will school calculate your GPA if you go to multiple colleges? Do they just punch in your all of your grades into a program and the program will calculate all that?

 

[HAB1206]

How will school calculate your GPA if you go to multiple colleges? Do they just punch in your all of your grades into a program and the program will calculate all that?

I'm not sure about all the schools, but I believe UHCO just takes your grade from each science class then calculates the GPA. You will end up having a science GPA and a cumulative GPA.

If you retake courses, then it gets a little confusing.

 

[nova2010]

Don't Give Up, Whatever You Do!! I Didn't Get In My First Attempt, Either. I Applied For Graduate School And Proved Myself. Guess What, I Got Accepted In Jan. During Graduate School. Ask The School What They Would Recommend You Do, If You Don't Get Accepted The First Time. They Want To Know That You Really Want To Be There. If You Give Up The First Time, Then, They Will Give Up On You. Keep Trying. Trust Me. Good Luck. Do Well On Your Oats. I Took It 3 Times.

 

[luckyfool]

Don't Give Up, Whatever You Do!! I Didn't Get In My First Attempt, Either. I Applied For Graduate School And Proved Myself. Guess What, I Got Accepted In Jan. During Graduate School. Ask The School What They Would Recommend You Do, If You Don't Get Accepted The First Time. They Want To Know That You Really Want To Be There. If You Give Up The First Time, Then, They Will Give Up On You. Keep Trying. Trust Me. Good Luck. Do Well On Your Oats. I Took It 3 Times.

Is it me or is anyone else here finding it difficult to read what the person above just wrote?

 

[still_confused]

KHE is correct... most people apply to three or four schools. The school has 600 applications, but if they don't get into your school with 75 spots, they'll most likely get in somewhere else. If you look at INDIVIDUAL number of applicants vs number of seats, your odds are very good of getting in. Granted, you do have to at least be qualified and/or competitive.

you know for med school people apply to like a dozen schools so does the same logic apply there as well? i read somewhere the raio for premeds that apply to getting in is like 2:1, i wish i had the source but i cant remember where i read it, but that doesnt mean that med school isnt competitive!