Thoughts from current PTs on current job outlook

[SarahRose]

Hello There,

I am currently a dental hygienist and am looking into pursing a DPT route. However, I have quite a bit of debt from my undergraduate degree (about 90,000 in loans) and am expecting quite a bit of debt if I am able to get into a DPT program. I am sure there are some forums that have discussed this in the past but I am curious to hear from some current PTs on this topic. I know for my current career (dental hygienist) is listed as a top career choice and great job outlook on the internet but currently there is VERY limited jobs available which makes me a little nervous about trusting the information on the internet when it comes to salary/job outlook. This is a career choice that I think I would really love and enjoy and always considered it as an option when younger but now that I am older and have been in the working field for a few years I feel more in tune with what I like and am looking for in a career and I am confident this is an amazing career choice for me. However, I am anxious about the cost of the DPT programs and managing that debt on top of my current educational debt. I am curious to hear thoughts or opinions from anyone on if they foresee a great job outlook for PTs and also wouldn't mind hearing from current PTs who may have some debt they are currently paying back and if they think its manageable on a PT salary. I am currently struggling with my current debt and salary and I don't want to get back in the same position. I know that education is an investment and I know I am not going to get rich off being a PT but it would be nice to be able to support myself and family and live somewhat decently as well as having a career I love but I am nervous my debt may be too much in order to do this.

Thanks!

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[starrsgirl]

I'm currently a PT student....so not in the field yet, but I am a non traditional student so maybe have a little different perspective on the job market and finances. Just from what you have shared, if I were you, I wouldn't consider going back to school for anything until your school debt is gone (or let's say very low...like less than 20K). I'm actually interested to hear what you currently make because I also propose it's probably not that different from what you will make as a PT. In my experience, I see the job market for PTs is pretty different than what the internet says. Although there are jobs out there, they are often not in the field you want to work and certainly not for a salary you want to start with after spending all those years and money in school. For a lot of people, that's not a deal breaker....they take the first job with lower pay, are reasonably happy and start working through the field. But I would say it's impossible to justify the debt load you will end up with, just to take a random job maybe in a place you won't want to be for about 50K out of school.

Again, if you buckle down and pay off your debt and then want to go for PT school, awesome! Like you said, you aren't going to get rich but it will be manageable. But I fear with a double debt load (current load + PT school debt), you will drown with a PT salary. Crunch the numbers....take a look at schools you would go to, add tuition and living cost. Figure 50K starting salary....see what your school loans would be. My bottom line is I love this field but it is not worth being destitute with school loan payments.

 

[jblil]

I always get a kick reading the Bureau of Labor Statistics' projections, which are invariably optimistic. Pharmacy and Optometry are two fields that have mostly been saturated (unless you want to take a job in the boonies or in an unsafe area), yet the BLS blithely says "demand is growing faster than average." I wouldn't be surprised if they said the same outlook applied to typewriter repairmen.

OP - I agree with starrsgirl. Get your debt paid down first, then go for the least expensive PT school that will accept you. In this field, school pedigree is mostly irrelevant.

Starrsgirl - a close friend is a dental hygienist with 5 yr's experience. Salary is $32/hr, no benefits.

 

[SarahRose]

Thanks for your input!

@starrsgirl I work at three different dental offices (with hygiene it is extremely hard to find a FT job or a job for that matter) and my wages at each are 28/hour, 29.50/hour, and 30/hour. The thing is I don't get benefits...all my health insurance is paid out of pocket by myself, no vacations, no paid holidays or paid time off, no 401k, etc. When we are off for 2 weeks in christmas thats a time I am struggling to pay bills because I am not compensated. I also don't always work a full 40 hours either due to cancellations by patients or patient flow. Last year I think I made around 40,000 before taxes and this year I got a third job but I feel as though I still probably won't make much more. Paying 91,000 off on school loans off with that income is suffocating along with the other expenses of living.

I calculated the numbers and even if i made 80,000 (which is highly unlikely as a new grad) and accumulated an extra 100k in debt (estimating 70,000 in tuition + living expenses-this may even be too low of an estimate considering cost of rent and food and other expenses) that would be almost 200k Id be paying off on that kind of salary would be almost impossible it seems. But at this stage in life I don't see being able to pay off my previous debt in a reasonable amount of time that would allow me to go back to school.

It just seems so discouraging and I am actually surprised that PTs make so little considering the amount of schooling required. I have a friend who is an OTA with two years of school, no school debt, making 50,000. Id make that spending 200k + an extra 3 years as a DPT? Blows my mind! It seems as though going back to school is basically impossible even if i looked into another healthcare field like PA (which completely is not interesting to me at all and completely different scope of practice) but they only make about 80k-100k and there cost of attendance at a PA program is 100k or more. That seems unreasonable as well.

I have always wanted to go back to school and feel like I can do more to help people and thats why I feel PT is a perfect fit. It also seems like I'd have more benefits available to me-ability to work in more settings, possible benefits that I don't currently get. However, not sure that those added benefits and maybe 15k extra in salary is justified in spending another 100k. Looks like I am stuck struggling.

 

[jblil]

OP - as a dental hygienist, are you getting paid through a W-2, or a 1099? If through a 1099, are you taking advantage of all the tax breaks available to you? They could help put a little more $ in your pocket. Are you in a large metro area, or in a more rural setting?
Scroll to the very last post of this thread; there are a couple of links to discussions about debt in PT school which you may find relevant:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/starting-salary-for-dpt-new-grads.931151/page-3

 

[starrsgirl]

The healthcare and benefits situation in this country is just a crime...but that's for another debate/place and time. I'm so frustrated for you on the hours you work, in an arguably decent job and still tight because of insurance, vacations, variable hours. grrrrrr!

I'm a huge Dave Ramsey fan and my hubby and I tackled a big amount of debt a few years ago....it seemed near impossible too, but we made some big sacrifices and paid it down. It SUCKS while you are doing it, but it was quicker than we expected and looking back, it feels worth it. Look at everything.....what can you cut? Can you take roommates? downsize a car? That type of thing.

What are your options with your current field? Can you make a crazy move to a rural place to draw a bigger more stable income (and save on living expenses)? Does the military need dental hygienists? Maybe consider how to make the most for debt payment with your current skills as step 1, then go after PT as step 2 if that's where your heart is. Have you considered dental school too as a step 2? (instead of PT school....only because you have experience in the field and I would argue if you like it, the salary is definitely better than PT)

 

[SarahRose]

@jblil- I get paid through a W2. I am in a large metro area. I actually get paid pretty high in my area considering the other surrounding areas but cost of living is high. Also in my field wages are going down and doctors try to squeeze as many patients in in a shorter amount of time....its hard not to feel like a workhorse whose underpaid. I think the extra out of pocket expenses and not enough hours make my debt extremely suffocating. Thanks for the link I will take a look. I have explored MANY threads on here concerning the PT profession and I just keep getting discouraged when it comes to the debt.

@starrsgirl- I hear dave ramsey is amazing. I currently have a roommate because living on my own is impossible. My car quit on my after undergrad so I have a fairly nice car but the miles on it are high (because I was driving almost 4 hours every day just to work and bring money in) so I would probably loose a great deal of money trying to trade it in. I have credit card debt from college and that seems never ending as well because I can't even make extra payments on that. I literally live paycheck to paycheck and worry sometimes about paying stuff. I thought getting an education would make me better off then my parents but obviously I wasn't educated on the cost of education and how much of a burden school debt can be I thought 50,000 sounded like a great wage and manageable with my debt (was I WRONG!). I considered dental school but even the debt for that is substantial anywhere from 50,000-80,000 a year depending where I can get in to school. So I am estimating anywhere from 300k-500k for dental school. I'm not sure if that is a financially smart move either. Id have to find work and become an associate at a busy practice (hoping theres a patient base for me) or open my own practice with is extra debt for startup fees and well as time to buildup patient base. That option seems like a very scary risk to me as well. I think I'd enjoy PT more because it is a little more responsibility then my current job and being able to help people more but it seems though that the extra time and debt isn't in line with salaries and unattainable for someone in my position.

 

[DesertPT]

What is your bachelor's degree in? Anything useful?

And with that amount of student loans and credit card debt on top of it, I think you would be nuts to go to PT school. Your salary out of PT school will only be a few thousand higher than what you are earning right now. PT

 

[DesertPT]

What is your bachelor's degree in? Anything useful?

With that amount of student loan debt and longstanding credit card debt on top of it, I think you would be nuts to go to PT school. You will probably only make a few thousand a year more out of PT school than you are making right now.

You don't sound like you feel that PT is your one and only passion and true calling in life, or anything like that. Yes, there are essentially no unemployed PTs. Yes is is a great field with great job satisfaction. But if you think about the situation pragmatically, it doesn't sound like going to professional school that will cost a bare minimum of $50k in tuition, books and fees, and as much as $150k, is really reasonable in your financial situation.

You should only go to PT school if it is literally the only thing in existence in this entire world that will make you happy as a person. Otherwise I would say there are a lot more straightforward ways for you to make a living at this point.

 

[NewTestament]

You need to pay off the debt you accumulated at hygiene school first. If you want to go to PT school, you need to keep expenses to a minimum. Go to a state school and ask your family if they will help. Otherwise, PT is a bad investment. It's a great profession, job satisfaction is high, and you can find a good job in most areas, but the debt/income ratio is too high. If you want to be a clinician and make decent money, be a physician assistant or a nurse practitioner.

Yes, COTAs and PTAs make $50k, but their upward potential is limited and there aren't nearly as many jobs for PTAs as there are for PTs. If you make $10k more as PT compared to a PTA for 30 years, that's $300k in extra income. If you pay $70k more for PT school compared to PTA school, you will still earn almost $250k more over a lifetime. At least the PTAs and COTAs I know all have benefits and PTO.

 

[SarahRose]

@knj27- I have a bachelor of science in dental hygiene. I definitely don't think it is logical for me to go as well after looking at the numbers.

@NewTestament I have no help with school from family hence all my student debt lol. I am sure I could definitely go into another health care field but I think PT has a lot of what I am looking for in a career-more patient contact then the 10 minutes a PA may be with a patient, highly rewarding, and some type of autonomy when it comes to developing treatment for patients who come to you. If I did NP Id have to start over again and since I have a bachelors already Id rather invest money in moving up. Honestly I feel that at this point ANY time of graduate school is impossible for me because the cost of tuition is so high not only for PT but for other programs as well (PA is almost 100k+ and they make anywhere from 80-100k) and unfortunately there is no way to pay off my debt any sooner and by that time going back to school is out of the question.

Thanks for the input! I guess I am stuck doing what I am doing.

 

[starrsgirl]

I wrote this in one of the above posts....here it is again in case you missed my questions "What are your options with your current field? Can you make a crazy move to a rural place to draw a bigger more stable income (and save on living expenses)? Does the military need dental hygienists?"

**It's not too late to change, but I think everyone agrees you have to pay off the debt FIRST with what you have now. I truly believe there is always a way to pay off debt sooner. Can you move, can you work rural, can you find a more high need area, can you take on another roommate, can you move in with ANY family for a year to pay down debt. Can you work to find a full time hygiene job and then take a night job too? I know it seems hopeless right now, but there are tons of success stories out there....go check out Dave Ramsey from the library or go online for success stories (he's not the only good finance guy, just one i love who inspired me to make big cuts to live debt free).

 

[jblil]

SarahRose - To pay off your loan earlier, have you tried to cut your expenses down to the bone? Common areas where one can save are cell phone bill (go with a cheaper plan or a pre-paid phone), cable TV (ditch it), eating out (don't), entertainment (Netflix instead of going to the movies), etc. Basically, live as a pennyless student. It'll be worth it in the long run.

 

[DesertPT]

@knj27- I have a bachelor of science in dental hygiene. I definitely don't think it is logical for me to go as well after looking at the numbers.

Ah, sorry I assumed you had an associates degree in hygiene and a bachelor's in something else. Does having the bachelor's not open up any additional career opportunities as well.

And if you really have a dream of becoming a PT I don't think you have to completely dismiss it, but I agree that you need to spend a few years or whatever it takes to get out of student and credit card debt first. The interest that would accumulate on those loans during multiple years of graduate school would be colossal.

 

[SarahRose]

@starrsgirl - I am not sure about the rural area hygiene jobs are pretty limited everywhere but I could try and see if I can find anything. I lived with my parents for a while but was driving 4 hours every day for work and it got to be too much. I am going to try to look into something and see if I can find more work or work at nights or stuff like that.

@jblil- I dont have cable and I have netflix already lol. I am on my parents plan for phone and pay them monthly so it is cheaper then having a plan by myself but I could look into a cheaper plan.

@knj27 - Having a bachelors doesn't really open any more avenues besides besides I can go on and get a masters. Thanks for all the input I appreciate it!

 

[OSUkid]

The healthcare and benefits situation in this country is just a crime...but that's for another debate/place and time. I'm so frustrated for you on the hours you work, in an arguably decent job and still tight because of insurance, vacations, variable hours. grrrrrr!

I'm a huge Dave Ramsey fan and my hubby and I tackled a big amount of debt a few years ago....it seemed near impossible too, but we made some big sacrifices and paid it down. It SUCKS while you are doing it, but it was quicker than we expected and looking back, it feels worth it. Look at everything.....what can you cut? Can you take roommates? downsize a car? That type of thing.

What are your options with your current field? Can you make a crazy move to a rural place to draw a bigger more stable income (and save on living expenses)? Does the military need dental hygienists? Maybe consider how to make the most for debt payment with your current skills as step 1, then go after PT as step 2 if that's where your heart is. Have you considered dental school too as a step 2? (instead of PT school....only because you have experience in the field and I would argue if you like it, the salary is definitely better than PT)

lol hubby?