Last edited:
Thoughts, Help & Advice on my ECs
- Thread starter j9103746
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 22,765
- Reaction score
- 16,900
Community service?
AJS59
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2023
- Messages
- 463
- Reaction score
- 439
I think this one sorta sits on the boundary line with regards to whether or not it is sufficient service orientation-on one hand you are working with an underprivileged population, on the other hand you are approaching it from the perspective of "being an expert" and "within your comfort zone," which is why tutoring is not looked upon highly as an example of community service. If looking for activities that are a better fit, consider something like food distribution, shelter work, housing rehab, job/tax preparation, transportation services, or something of the like.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 22,765
- Reaction score
- 16,900
From your WAMC description, you are obviously passionate about sports and martial arts (and their relatives), and you excitedly share what you have learned with others. Four thousand hours is a lot.
In comparison, I don't see you dedicating a similar number of hours to medicine or health-related experiences—just 300 hours.
Where your hours are, is where your passion lies. No one spends thousands of hours doing things they are not comfortable with unless it is truly their passion or they are forced to do so by necessity.
This is why teaching karate to kids doesn't show me you are capable of being uncomfortable, a feeling you will become way too familiar with once you enter medical training. And it's not the same as staring down "fear" which you have to do and control in boxing and martial arts (though that discipline will serve you well).
Teaching is an academic competency in the same way we expect learning to happen in clinical settings: see-do-teach. Service orientation requires humility to be receptive to understanding another community's needs and address problems bigger than and outside one's expertise. Service orientation uses expertise to develop sustainable progress towards improving a community whenever possible, or at least to make some progress by bridging and binding a community together.
In one non-profit close to me, we have a faculty of electricians and plumbers who teach one-off classes in home maintenance and repair to low-income individuals trying to stay in their apartments, and we keep a loan/lending tool library. Those teachers are experts, but you can make a better argument that their impact better addresses community needs. Do they feel it's a community service? Well, I hope by supporting the non-profit through their expertise and availability, yes. No different from building a H4H house where you have to teach volunteers how to use the tools and not get hurt.
Being an expert in something doesn't mean you can teach it (you'll learn this if you haven't already appreciated it). Being a service-oriented expert means you understand how your knowledge can change communities.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 22,765
- Reaction score
- 16,900
I would hope your local food bank has higher standards of how many hours you are expected to volunteer each week than just one or two. Don't just do the activity to box-check.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Messages
- 540
- Reaction score
- 4,080
I agree with the above. Your medical experience is about at the minimum acceptable, and you will be competing against applicants with 500-1000 hrs doing things like scribing, MA work, etc. You need more service experience - the karate stuff counts but you need to have another longitudinal activity or two outside of your comfort zone (food bank is fine, but I'd find one not on your college campus. Other options - homeless shelter, refugee resettlement agency, domestic violence shelter, etc).
I am in agreement as well that I'm seeing a lot of hours committed to your passions and hobbies - nothing inherently wrong with that- and comparatively less dedicated to gaining experience in clinical settings and seeking out experiences that will help you become a better doctor such as service or (so far) research. I think it would be really beneficial for you to consider waiting a year or two to apply to build a more competitive application. If I were reviewing your app at my unranked school, you would not get an interview as your ECs currently stand regardless of essays/stats/letters.
To your specific questions:
- EMT cert without working any shifts beyond your training ones won't be very helpful, but if you're applying now, I would include it only because your clinical hours are so low to begin with.
- I don't think boxing would be controversial to include.
- Calisthenics - I don't think you necessarily need a contact and I also don't think you necessarily need to include this - I don't think it will move the needle either way especially with several other extensive athletic endeavors on your app.
- Digital artwork again unlikely to move the needle but can include if it's important to you. Don't need a contact.
I am in agreement as well that I'm seeing a lot of hours committed to your passions and hobbies - nothing inherently wrong with that- and comparatively less dedicated to gaining experience in clinical settings and seeking out experiences that will help you become a better doctor such as service or (so far) research. I think it would be really beneficial for you to consider waiting a year or two to apply to build a more competitive application. If I were reviewing your app at my unranked school, you would not get an interview as your ECs currently stand regardless of essays/stats/letters.
To your specific questions:
- EMT cert without working any shifts beyond your training ones won't be very helpful, but if you're applying now, I would include it only because your clinical hours are so low to begin with.
- I don't think boxing would be controversial to include.
- Calisthenics - I don't think you necessarily need a contact and I also don't think you necessarily need to include this - I don't think it will move the needle either way especially with several other extensive athletic endeavors on your app.
- Digital artwork again unlikely to move the needle but can include if it's important to you. Don't need a contact.
Last edited:
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 22,765
- Reaction score
- 16,900
Text line stuff is okay but is also open to a lot of adcom criticism. The training is important, and if it is done with proper oversight, it is great. However, the lack of face-to-face interaction makes it harder to give you "full credit". Leveraging these skills with in-person roles such as a shelter volunteer fits the expectations better.
It's like the growth of online scribe positions (I had one the other day where the doctor brought in a scribe via the doctor's smartphone instead of a physical person with a tablet). I would begrudgingly say if that's your only option, make it temporary until you can get one that involves true interpersonal observation and engagement.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 4,578
- Reaction score
- 17,452
It's garbage. Don't bother.
You have to think about the overarching story your ECs convey. Using your current (not projected) hours, 89% of them pertain to fighting sports and calisthenics. Only 11% of them pertain to anything directly relevant to medical school admissions (clinical, volunteering, shadowing, research).
Baseline interpretation of this pattern: you are very engaged with physical activity and much less engage with service and clinical exposure. So here's what you do:
Service/altruism: Start volunteering at a homeless shelter, soup kitchen, or similar. Face-to-face interaction is key. Texting and fundraising will not get the job done.
Clinical: Keep your clinical volunteering gig. Additional shadowing is a waste of time unless it's primary care. If feasible, get EMT certified and do that. Or try and find a scribe job. Lots of people do MA now.
Other: Dump calisthenics from you app. Also, 50 hours of "digital artwork" is weak, like you're just trying to fill a slot. Unless there's more to it I would leave it out.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2021
- Messages
- 414
- Reaction score
- 489
I try to think about what kind of story your personal statement conveys from your ECs and I can't think of anything that pertains to medicine from your ECs apart from sports medicine. Even then, you'd be better off as a PE teacher with these experiences. This begs the question, why aren't you pursuing a career as a PE teacher instead of medicine?
Also, consider occupational therapy. I know an OT who teaches martial arts to kids on the spectrum so they can better defend themselves from bullies. If you enjoy physical activities that much, OT may be a better fit for you because it will integrate into your career way more than medicine.
It would be best if you also took this time to ask yourself why do you want to be a doctor.
Also, consider occupational therapy. I know an OT who teaches martial arts to kids on the spectrum so they can better defend themselves from bullies. If you enjoy physical activities that much, OT may be a better fit for you because it will integrate into your career way more than medicine.
It would be best if you also took this time to ask yourself why do you want to be a doctor.
I am confident in my decision to pursue medicine and regularly document my thoughts and reasons for this choice. Any further discussion on pointless matters like being a PE teacher or an OT is, frankly, unproductive and a waste of my time. Nevertheless, you bring up a good reminder to keep documenting in my journal why medicine. If you have any valuable input, I would be open to hear it. Otherwise, good luck with your endeavors.
@Med Ed @Mr.Smile12 @cj_cregg I appreciate your advice and your thoughts and I believe I have gotten my answers, I will now lock this thread and "." out everything else to maintain my privacy. Once again, I really appreciate your help!
- Status
