Thoughts ND vs DO

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KR1234

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Hello fellow future doctors,
I was hoping to have your feedback regarding a personal dilemma. What are your views regarding pursuing osteopathic medicine vs. naturopathic medicine. Recently, I found at that I was accepted into one of the best ND schools for the Fall 2014 program. During this time, I also met and interviewed with a good D.O. school where I was asked to retake the MCAT exam and reapply for the 2015 school year. I received very positive feedback from the D.O. school and feel that my chances of getting accepted into the 2015 program are high.
My dilemma is...should I postpone the ND route in order to see if I get accepted into the 2015 DO program? I'm already 31 years old and waiting another year feels like torture since I'm already getting a late start, ahhh! Any feedback you may have on what career would be best to pursue would be extremely helpful!!!

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What do you mean "please don't feed the troll"...I'm new to the website, what am I missing?
 
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Your original question triggers the 'not sure if serious' radar. You'll have a tough time getting a straight answer until folks know you're serious.

Too many people try to stir up a hornets nest with similar posts.

What do you mean "please don't feed the troll"...I'm new to the website, what am I missing?
 
My dilemma is...should I postpone the ND route in order to see if I get accepted into the 2015 DO program? I'm already 31 years old and waiting another year feels like torture since I'm already getting a late start, ahhh! Any feedback you may have on what career would be best to pursue would be extremely helpful!!!

Disclaimer: this post is bias and not impartial.

What do you want to do with your life/career?

Do you want to be a physician? Do you want all specialties, all careers, all types of job (from clinical, hospital administrative, public health policy, research, etc) available to you? If yes, then pursuing the ND option makes no sense (and don't expect NDs to be accepted as equivalent to MDs/DOs - despite what some ND schools may say or advertise, it's not). Waiting 1 or 2 years is small compare to what lies ahead.

Or another way to look at it

You could be 40 years old, an ND, and wishing you pursued medical school (and started looking at options)
or you could be 40 years old, and a new attending (whether in private practice making $$$, or academia making $$ but teaching and shaping future doctors). Either way, you're 40 years old - where do you see yourself at that stage?
 
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Don't know enough about ND to truly help you out, but I do know that there's a distinction between ND and DO/MD. Two different scopes and I've never seen an ND in a hospital.
 
Oh got it...definitely not trying to stir up a hornets nest. I'm truly serious....as this decision effects my future and would love insight/advice.
 
Disclaimer: this post is bias and not impartial.

What do you want to do with your life/career?

Do you want to be a physician? Do you want all specialties, all careers, all types of job (from clinical, hospital administrative, public health policy, research, etc) available to you? If yes, then pursuing the ND option makes no sense (and don't expect NDs to be accepted as equivalent to MDs/DOs - despite what some ND schools may say or advertise, it's not). Waiting 1 or 2 years is small compare to what lies ahead.

Or another way to look at it

You could be 40 years old, an ND, and wishing you pursued medical school (and started looking at options)
or you could be 40 years old, and a new attending (whether in private practice making $$$, or academia making $$ but teaching and shaping future doctors). Either way, you're 40 years old - where do you see yourself at that stage?

You are absolutely right! Waiting a year or two is small in comparison to what lies ahead. I do want to be a physician and have lots of options and realistically the ND route has limited opportunities.

At 40 years old I want to have a wonderful career where I am committed to treating and patients with the upmost care and knowledge. I also want to look back at this time in my life and say "I made the best decision for my future and the future of medicine."
 
Please go into ND. If at 31 you are such a child that you can't Google the differences, you really shouldn't be someone giving real medicine. Please stick to your homeopathy.

I feel like I just let myself get trolled.
 
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Please go into ND. If at 31 you are such a child that you can't Google the differences, you really shouldn't be someone giving real medicine. Please stick to your homeopathy.

I feel like I just let myself get trolled.
This.

To the OP, you should know by now that most (if not all) Naturopaths are viewed in the medical community as complete quacks who most patients would have to contemplate seeing even if the choice was that or death. MD and DO are based off current medical knowledge and research and relies very little on alternative medicines. Take your pick.
 
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Relevant

The homeopathic ER:
 
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You have not done enough research on the two; hence the sarcasm you are facing.
 
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Jesus Christ on a solar-powered bicycle, an ND vs DO thread!!!

You know what, if I interview for a job at two different companies, I always make it a point to not research anything about them and why they are different.

Go ND. I love herbs. They add depth and flavor to any dish.

Now, where's the anti-vaccine thread?
 
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This topic has already been talked to death. Definitely do the ND. If that doesn't work out, then definitely janitor, or perhaps greengrocer. You'll be saving thousands, if not millions, of people with lifestyle change recommendations that those evil conventional med practitioners cramming pill after pill down your throat as if you were some two dollar hooker from Hoboken (no offense to anyone from Hoboken) just won't do.
 
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What do you mean "please don't feed the troll"...I'm new to the website, what am I missing?
DOs are physicians. Naturopaths are supplement peddlers. Your dilemma implies they are in some way the same. It's like comparing WWE to Olympic Greco-Roman wrestling- they aren't at all the same, and a participant of the latter would be insulted and dismayed by any comparisons to the former. The only thing the two have in common is wrestling in their titles, much as the only thing NDs and DOs have in common is doctor in their titles.
 
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ND = not a doctor.

You know what it takes to get into a ND program? A pulse and a check book. You will study the four humors, learn to "prescribe" homeopathic cures, and study bogus "allergy" tests for "food sensitivities."

You know what it takes to get into a DO program? Hard work, determination and book smarts. You will study actual medicine, cure actual diseases and actually help people instead of just taking their money.
 
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People don't actually think NDs are physicians... do they?
 
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Guys, are naturopathic doctors same as oriental doctors? I don't think they are the same but...
In eastern countries, oriental doctors are regarded just as "high/prestige" as MD (equivalent to MD).
It's MD vs Oriental in Eastern countries I believe.
BUT we aren't in asia are we?
I would personally do DO but...
 
Depends if you want to be a physician or a charlatan, OP. If physician, choose DO. If being a charlatan appeals to you more, be an ND.
 
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Haha I personally like these troll posts. Reading the responses was almost therapeutic.. thanks, KR1234.
 
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Let's consider for a moment that ND is something valuable and brings a nutritional and supplement data to the equation of caring for patients.

Even then they have no prescribing abilities and no medical authority.

What would be your goals of doing ND training? If it's to bring a naturopath approach to medicine then you can still read and be knowledgable about other ways your patients lifestyle can improve their well being and health without being an ND but rather being a physician like a MD or DO.

Integrative medicine, personal knowledge and interest, as well as self branding can still play a "holistic" role in medical care if that's what your area of interest is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Let's consider for a moment that ND is something valuable and brings a nutritional and supplement data to the equation of caring for patients.

Even then they have no prescribing abilities and no medical authority.

What would be your goals of doing ND training? If it's to bring a naturopath approach to medicine then you can still read and be knowledgable about other ways your patients lifestyle can improve their well being and health without being an ND but rather being a physician like a MD or DO.

Integrative medicine, personal knowledge and interest, as well as self branding can still play a "holistic" role in medical care if that's what your area of interest is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. Registered dietitians bring a nutritional aspect to healthcare.
 
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^that sounds like some Chem trials shet
 
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No. Registered dietitians bring a nutritional aspect to healthcare.
I really think science has a fundamentally poor understanding of nutrition in general. Hence the back and forth of what is good and bad for you every other week in the news. I don't think an ND telling a patient to eat fruits and veggies and locally grown GMO free foods etc etc will have much worse outcomes than a dietician giving roughly the same advice. It's the stuff that doesn't involve diet and lifestyle changes that really concerns me. They actually believe in homeopathy for one, and think chelation therapy is the bee's knees for everything under the sun.

Anyway, we've got a name for alternative medicine that works. We call it medicine. This alternative garbage should be studied to death so we can bury it forever as an embarrassing moment in human "medical" history.
 
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ND could be confused with MD. It just takes one typo, and you're set. Not so with DO. Just keep that in mind.
 
It's very simple. ND = quackery; DO = real doctor. The claims of OMT are largely unsupported, but for musculoskeletal problems, there's a decent body of evidence.

Hello fellow future doctors,
I was hoping to have your feedback regarding a personal dilemma. What are your views regarding pursuing osteopathic medicine vs. naturopathic medicine. Recently, I found at that I was accepted into one of the best ND schools for the Fall 2014 program. During this time, I also met and interviewed with a good D.O. school where I was asked to retake the MCAT exam and reapply for the 2015 school year. I received very positive feedback from the D.O. school and feel that my chances of getting accepted into the 2015 program are high.
My dilemma is...should I postpone the ND route in order to see if I get accepted into the 2015 DO program? I'm already 31 years old and waiting another year feels like torture since I'm already getting a late start, ahhh! Any feedback you may have on what career would be best to pursue would be extremely helpful!!!
 
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OP, if you want to be a physician and help people in times of need and be able to do the smallest thing such as writing a prescription for an inhaler, become a licensed medical professional. Licensed medical professionals in the states are MD, DO, NP and PAs, (Sports medicine, massage therapy, etc aside)
There is no relevant line from those NDs to any of the mentioned professions. No similarity to DO or MD.
NPs are not allowed to even write a basic prescription for a simple medication in the USA; but they can crush roots, mix berries and herbs and will be glad to bolster the multimillion dollar, non-FDA approved or tested supplement market with overpriced organic pills and potions. Yes, some of it works, and it's not all pure quack; but it's a crime to confuse them as being on a similar plane. MD/DO is legit medicine. ND trying to be real physicians is a crime.

It's your choice.
 
It's very simple. ND = quackery; DO = real doctor. The claims of OMT are largely unsupported, but for musculoskeletal problems, there's a decent body of evidence.
How do you feel as an Anatomist having to put up with claims like cranial and Chapman points?
 
Guys, are naturopathic doctors same as oriental doctors? I don't think they are the same but...
In eastern countries, oriental doctors are regarded just as "high/prestige" as MD (equivalent to MD).
It's MD vs Oriental in Eastern countries I believe.
BUT we aren't in asia are we?
I would personally do DO but...

Not really. NDs study a smorgasbord of alternative treatments, though they can focus on one area. Also, saying "Eastern Countries" is too general. In Japan, for example, no one in their right mind considers Chinese medicine to be primary treatment, only as an adjunct or supplement. Pretty much all PCPs in Japan are familiar with various Chinese med treatments that they can use in conjunction with whatever primary treatment they provide. Conventional treatments >>> Chinese medicine > Vitamins and Supplements
 
I think that that cranial may indeed be a useful therapeutic treatment modality, but no way in hell do those bones move. I suspect my colleagues who are cranial devotees are belaboring under a tactile delusion, they should come up with a better explanation for what's going on.

I like Wiki's explanation for Chapman's points: "No histologic or scientific basis has yet been established for these points." I put these in the same category as acupuncture meridians, or whatever they're called....meaning "unproven claim".

How do you feel as an Anatomist having to put up with claims like cranial and Chapman points?
 
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Hello! I feel I can contribute some useful insights to this discussion as I have first hand experience with each field, and I think both options are viable choices.
Naturopaths have significantly more utility than many of the posters mentioned here (ie. in arizona they can prescribe medication), some of their modalities are very useful (I have met numerous parties who had debilitating health problems that were solved by naturopathic physicians), and I know various naturopaths who 300k annual practices.
During my undergraduate, multiple fairly intelligent faculty members told me they thought naturopathic medicine would be a better choice for me to osteopathic medicine, so I definitely considered the option and helped advise other people on their career options.
However I ultimately chose osteopathy.
In my eyes these are the pros to pursuing naturopathy:
*School is easier and less grueling. In naturopathic school they put an emphasis on the students staying healthy (since they believe to be a good healer you must be healthy too), and their program is only 4 years. Medical school on the other hand takes a major toll on you. I think that hardship is worth it for what it develops, but I don't think it's something you should go into unless that it was you sincerely want to do, especially if you have another option.
*Depending on what your philosophical viewpoints are, you may find a practice and vision of medicine (along with colleagues) that are much more in line with your values.
*I think a lot of what you are taught in the naturopathic schools is actually very useful to know and not covered in medical school.
*You are guaranteed to get into the school. Competition for the medical schools is very intense, and you may be making a major gamble.
*Given your age, not being able to practice medicine or start a family until you are 40 is a major issue.

On the flipside, I view some of the most pertinent pros to being a physician as follows:
*The training is better. Although naturopathic school will give you some useful tricks, you will get a much deeper and effective knowledge of medicine by going through an osteopathic medical school. I definitely feel many of the recent naturopathic graduates I have met could have learned more during their schooling.
I personally care a lot about the quality of care I can provide, and I did not feel it was possible to get the bar to where I wanted it to be without the medical school process.
*Physicians have much better job security. I believe the naturopath field is nearing market saturation. Following our recent recession most alternative health practitioners saw their practices shrink, and in addition to not yet recovering to their previous prosperity, the naturopathic field is continuing to grow which further squeezes you. I know quite a few naturopaths I consider to be outstanding at what they do, but are nonetheless struggling because they did not have the necessary resources to market themselves. If you have large loans this can become a huge issue.
*There are stricter requirements for admission, so (at least in my eyes, especially since I am highly intellectual), your peers will be more awesome.
*Many more doors throughout life are opened and made available to you.
*The medical school experience is a very powerful and transformative experience of self growth.
*Osteopathic manipulation is an extremely valuable system to learn, arguably more so than anything you would learn at a naturopathic school. About 5% (this is a guess) of people who learn it fall in love with it, get amazing results, and open very successful and enjoyable practices with it.

Additionally there are two variables to consider.
Naturopathic schools will give DOs/MDs credit for previous educational experience, and allow you to get an ND degree with 1-2 years of training.
Everyone I have met who went through the naturopathic process strongly advocated going NCNM or Bastyr. If the school you got into was not one of those two I would be less invested in it.

Ultimately, both options are fine and will work. You should think about which one is more congruent with who you are and what you want to be. Osteopathic medical school is arguably "better" but if your heart isn't fully behind all of it, you are doing yourself and quite possibly your future patients a disservice. That's what I'd throw out.
 
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Personally I don't think it's appropriate to call ND's quacks or any derogatory term. If we put ourselves in their shoes, they went into their profession hoping to care for people. Perhaps they took the step without exploring all the options or were woo'd by lofty claims the schools made. Whatever the case may be, I'm sure the vast majority of them are genuinely wanting to care for people the best they can.

/rant on With that said, why aren't we more accepting of alternative professionals who are transitioning back to mainstream medicine? We should be applauding the folks who have "seen the light" and not treating them like they are weird rejects or something. /rant over
 
Personally I don't think it's appropriate to call ND's quacks or any derogatory term. If we put ourselves in their shoes, they went into their profession hoping to care for people. Perhaps they took the step without exploring all the options or were woo'd by lofty claims the schools made. Whatever the case may be, I'm sure the vast majority of them are genuinely wanting to care for people the best they can.

/rant on With that said, why aren't we more accepting of alternative professionals who are transitioning back to mainstream medicine? We should be applauding the folks who have "seen the light" and not treating them like they are weird rejects or something. /rant over

Nope. They are quacks who end up killing people when they try and play doctor. I have no sympathy for them, anti vaxxers, or any other genius who rejects evidence based medicine
 
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The only thing... NDs and DOs have in common is doctor in their titles.

I heard a commercial on the radio saying, "If you have these symptoms (blah, blah, common everyday stuff every person with a heartbeat and morsel of responsibility has), then you may have hypothyroidism! Come visit our chiropractor PHYSICIANS at such-a-such place!" So now not only do I have to convince my elderly relatives that yes, I will be a "real" doctor as a DO, but now I have to compete with NDs and chiropractors too?
 
Hello fellow future doctors,
I was hoping to have your feedback regarding a personal dilemma. What are your views regarding pursuing osteopathic medicine vs. naturopathic medicine. Recently, I found at that I was accepted into one of the best ND schools for the Fall 2014 program. During this time, I also met and interviewed with a good D.O. school where I was asked to retake the MCAT exam and reapply for the 2015 school year. I received very positive feedback from the D.O. school and feel that my chances of getting accepted into the 2015 program are high.
My dilemma is...should I postpone the ND route in order to see if I get accepted into the 2015 DO program? I'm already 31 years old and waiting another year feels like torture since I'm already getting a late start, ahhh! Any feedback you may have on what career would be best to pursue would be extremely helpful!!!
A DO is licensed to practice medicine in all 50 states with everything that entails. An ND only has prescription rights in 10 or so states. I believe many NDs are also NPs or PAs so that they can also do primary care along with their naturopath training. It also makes it easier for them to get privileges in certain states.

Source: my SIL asked about it one time so I used Google and learned.
 
Do you want to practice Medicine or Magic. If Medicine then go the DO route.
 
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DOs and NDs are both doctors and physicians. But remember, so is a DC. But, you will be unable to get an unrestricted license in all 50 states unless you are a DO.

So, if you want to be a licensed, unrestricted physician in all 50 states- go DO.
 
DOs and NDs are both doctors and physicians. But remember, so is a DC. But, you will be unable to get an unrestricted license in all 50 states unless you are a DO.

So, if you want to be a licensed, unrestricted physician in all 50 states- go DO.

No they aren't. MDs and DOs are physicians
 
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DOs and NDs are both doctors and physicians. But remember, so is a DC. But, you will be unable to get an unrestricted license in all 50 states unless you are a DO.

So, if you want to be a licensed, unrestricted physician in all 50 states- go DO.

The guy who taught my history class is a "doctor" as well. Same goes for my physics professor. In the eyes of the US government, the "physicians" are MDs and DOs
 
No they aren't. MDs and DOs are physicians

I'm a DO myself. And I wish the term "physician" was reserved for DOs and MDs. But it's not. If you walk down the street you'll see a chiropractic practice. On the door it it may says: "Chiropractic Physician". (In fact, the DC practice down my street says, "Chiropractic Sports Medicine Physician" on the door. He gets away with it.) The same goes for ODs and DPMs. I've seen them called, "Optometric Physicians" and "Podiatrist Physicians". NDs are also called "Naturopathic Physicians".

In the eyes of the US government, the only fully licensed physicians are MDs and DOs. But, the fact of the matter is that the term "physician" is not trademarked. Anyone with a doctoral degree is a "Doctor", but not a DO or DO.

Also, don't forget that in some states DCs and NDs are seen as "fully licensed primary care physicians". This means they can do preventive things like pap smears, and bill for it. Don't kill the messenger.
 
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