Thoughts on U of Utah and Cleveland Clinic

[Emaline]

Hi guys-

I just recently got invites to interview at these 2 programs and was wondering if any of you had any thoughts about/experiences with them. I already searched the forum, but I didn't find too much. I think SLC appeals to the outdoorsy person in me, but I really don't know a ton about the program.

Also, when a program invites you to interview, how long do you think is acceptable to wait before you reply? I already ahve 4 interviews scheduled and I kind of want to wait to set up some of these interviews until I know if I will be interviewing elsewhere in the region.

Thanks!

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[pathstudent]

Utah is supposedly a great program.

 

[yaah]

Utah is a great program. I interviewed there a couple of years ago. You cannot beat the scenery and location, it's on the edge of the valley, on the other side of the mountains from Park City. The staff and residents I met were uniformly intelligent and easy to get along with, which is a tough combo to find. It is a tough match - a lot of people rank it #1 I believe. They have a good pediatric path dep't, and plus they have ARUP which is a huge national reference lab, and would result in some amazing CP opportunities, if you are so inclined.

I know very little about Cleveland Clinic other than it is big, busy, more of a factory, and Goldblum is there.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I've heard pretty much the same things, yaah. Two good programs!

ARUP = awesome CP = insane consults and residents are on the front lines when seeing these consults. We routinely send our CP consults to ARUP, as one of my fellow residents told me.

Cleveland Clinic = high specimen load = great learning opportunities. Very busy place. Probably aspiring to be like an MGH or Mt. Sinai.

 

[Emaline]

Thanks for your responses! I am definitely interviewing at Utah. Just trying to figure out how/if Cleveland might fit into my interview schedule.

 

[ChipLeader]

Hey Emaline - I'm kinda in the same spot as you are in terms of scheduling interviews. I don't want to schedule a bunch of Nov/Dec interviews right away before I hear from more programs. I'm beginning to realize I probably applied to too many programs and will have to be a bit prudent about which interviews I go to. It's tough because I don't want to get too confident too early. I think location will be key in this regard - there will probably end up being a handful of decent/solid programs that I won't end up interviewing at because they're not located in places I particularly want to live. I didn't apply to Cleveland Clinic (or to very many midwest schools fo rthat matter) but that would be what I had in mind in terms of bad location. No offense to any Cleveland people out there

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hey Emaline - I'm kinda in the same spot as you are in terms of scheduling interviews. I don't want to schedule a bunch of Nov/Dec interviews right away before I hear from more programs. I'm beginning to realize I probably applied to too many programs and will have to be a bit prudent about which interviews I go to. It's tough because I don't want to get too confident too early. I think location will be key in this regard - there will probably end up being a handful of decent/solid programs that I won't end up interviewing at because they're not located in places I particularly want to live. I didn't apply to Cleveland Clinic (or to very many midwest schools fo rthat matter) but that would be what I had in mind in terms of bad location. No offense to any Cleveland people out there

I was in your shoes last year. This was my strategy.

Let's say there are programs X, Y, and Z in a certain geographical region where flight costs would be optimal. I would only be interested in program X where I applied to Y and Z just to be safe. I would plan these interviews in a stretch in December or January (since I thought that it helped to interview at program X later than earlier).

Then let's say that there were a batch of programs where I really wasn't interested in going to...programs A, B, C, and D. But they offered interviews to me early. Well I would schedule them earlier but not too early (sometime in November--which gave me enough time to cancel if more interviews came calling). Then once a bunch of other programs (especially the ones I was more interested in) offered me interviews, then I canceled them in one batch.

Geographically, I wasn't interested in doing residency in the South (no offense, but I preferred coasts and a few programs in the midwest). Those programs contacted me first but eventually when the rest of the programs got back to me, I ended up cancelling all of those, except one.

To make things short, schedule the programs of high interest when you definitely have time off. The others, you can tentatively schedule during a busier month and then of course, cancel them.

 

[ChipLeader]

To make things short, schedule the programs of high interest when you definitely have time off. The others, you can tentatively schedule during a busier month and then of course, cancel them.

Thanks Andy - sounds like a good plan. You and Yaah are like a gold-mine of pathology information. But do you really think interviewing at a program you're really interested at a later date (dec/jan) helps you versus interviewing there earlier. I guess the rationale is that if you interview later they're more likely to remember you when they make their rank list. This is kinda silly though, I mean come on, this is something that they go through every year - they gotta look past that right? I'm hoping it isn't the case anyway, since I'm going to Hopkins in mid-Nov, and I'm certainly interested in going there!

 

[beary]

But do you really think interviewing at a program you're really interested at a later date (dec/jan) helps you versus interviewing there earlier.

We had a residency interviewing information session and they told us that they have looked at the numbers and it makes no difference when you interview. Supposedly, earlier everybody is fresh, and later they may be more likely to remember you but they are sick of interviewing, so it all cancels out in the end. At least this is what we were told.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

But do you really think interviewing at a program you're really interested at a later date (dec/jan) helps you versus interviewing there earlier.

Most likely to make not much of a difference. If you're good, you're good. If they like you, they like you. If you interview earlier and you are highly interested in a place, you can just remind them in january in a followup correspondence. That's why I said "since I thought that it helped to interview at program X later than earlier" (as in that was my opinion at that time). I overstrategized last year.

 

[Cabbage Head]

The Cleveland Clinic does do a lot of surgical specimens. I'm thinking maybe 80-90k + cyto. There are 9 residents per incoming class, though the upper level classes have less because of the residency length change. I don't feel like it's too much of a factory. Grossing is done about twice a week, and it works like this: all surgicals are broken down into one of three categories; GI/derm/soft tissue, breast/Gyn/ENT/cardio, GU/neuro/bone/lung. So you cover one of these desks with a PA. So 3 residents gross at a time with 3 PAs. Biopsy stuff, you don't gross. Some smaller surgical specimens come through, but endoscopic biopsy stuff is done by other PAs. There is one resident on frozen sections for the day, and you can get as few as 30 (which is very very light) or as many as 160 (very heavy) 60-100 is the norm. Then, the evening after you gross, you preview, and you sign out all the next day. Most cases are seen previewed by a resident, but not all. For example, if a lung case comes out at noon the day you are signing out, you aren't going to get to preview it before you get to the lung signout, because you are already signing out GU.
The Clinic has very active surgeons, and people are referred from all over the country, so you get to see a ton of stuff. The Path faculty are good, they range from neutral to very nice, and teaching ranges from some teaching to extreme amounts of teaching. I guess you'd probably find that anywhere, though. The Clinic isn't a university, but because they can draw talented faculty by virtue of the supspecialty signout system, that is balanced out a bit.
The Clinic is busy, but because they have PAs grossing along with residents, you usually don't get crushed. If all cases were grossed and previewed by residents, it would be a lot to keep up with. There is a pretty good variety in specimens, too. You'll see some things daily that you won't see in private practice (cardiac biopsies, really weird soft tissue referrals), but you'll also see a ton of the garden variety stuff that you will need to know (75-100 GI biopsy cases a day). The program doesn't push you into academic path or private practice. You could easily do either, and it seems like the faculty respect you either way.
Oh, heme is very strong here, too. Usually there are 20-25 bone marrows to review a day, divided amongst 3-4 residents and a fellow. Add in peripheral smears, LP stuff, etc., and heme can be pretty busy. There are at least 5 heme/lymphoma staff. Lymphoma is considered a CP rotation. I'm not really sure how many cases they review a day.
Residents have pretty good camraderie. When you have 9 path residents, there will always be an odd one or two, but on the whole, people tend to get along. If you are a gunner, please stay away though.
As far as Cleveland goes, it probably has a poorer reputation than it deserves. It was a nasty steel town 30 years ago, and of course that still exists, but there is plenty to do. Traffic isn't bad, and it's pretty easy to live close to the hospital because of Cleveland's geography. (there are 500k houses 10 minutes one way, urban wasteland 10 minutes the other way...not to imply that there isn't good housing available for those of us in the middle)
Other stuff: 3 weeks vacation, you can take it whenever you want. $400 book fund. Day starts at 8 with a lecture.

 

[Emaline]

Thanks for the input pouch o douglas. Also, great name

 

[kcina]

Thanks for the info about The Clinic. Very very helpful for those of us interested.