Threatened to be reported to Dean for Professionalism

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Your behavior as you self describe in the anatomy lab was unprofessional.

2. How do I refrain from keeping myself acting out and how do I keep myself preoccupied?

I suppose getting reported and living with the consequences of your actions might help you refrain yourself from acting out. And how to "keep yourself preoccupied?" Don't you have something you could be studying?
 
You're a f*cking *****.

Had to get that out, and in full disclosure my sense of humor is so dark I don't let it in the big house.

But for real we had a guy in my class that was caught doing similar inappropriate acts with his group and cadaver and was forced to sit out the rest of the year and start the following year again. They also said it will be noted in his deans note. Nothing you can do at this point just do what I do from now on. Keep your mouth shut.
 
DrMaccoman said:
Hi Folks,

I'm just awful at working in groups and I think I have ADHD or something because whenever the going gets boring, I start acting out. So here is the story, in my Gross lab, we have more people per table than necessary so most of the time more than half of us are just chilling and observing and doing nothing really productive while two people actually do work. In those periods I have a tendency to get bored and talk about random things such as politics or watch some sports on the side computers.
Anyways, today I was absolutely going hard and talked about the death of Prince and bringing up Dave Chapelle. On the topic of Dave Chappelle, I was referencing some of his hilarious skits like the KKK one, or the "I'm Rick James B**CH" or the Tyronne crack addict ones. I didn't notice it but some of my group members were apparently really offended by my use of language, even though I was mimicking what Chappelle says (Note: I never said the N word though, but I did say "darkness" as Rick James says it).

It was in this joking mood/end of the year mood that when it was time for us to decapitate the head, I, for whatever idiotic reason, though it was funny to hoist the decaptiated head high up as if I am holding a trophy.

One of my group members was absolutely mortified and screamed that I was so disrespectful. I have to say she was absolutely right. Afterwards, I apologized and realized I was acting like a huge and disrespectful idiot. However, later on, she reached out to me and told me that she will report me to the dean for my unprofessional behavior and how I mistreated the cadaver.

So my question is.

1. What should I do?
2. How do I refrain from keeping myself acting out and how do I keep myself preoccupied?
3. I'm a jokester type of person, and it's very difficult for me to not keep a light mood, but I recognize that I need to mature a whole lot. Any tips on keeping myself sane and not joking around and to exhibit professionalism 24/7? I just find it really hard to go from College where everyone can do whatever to the rigidity that is medical school and the constant need for professionalism and the threat of any violation of professionalism.
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YDI
 
DrMaccoman said:
Hi Folks,

I'm just awful at working in groups and I think I have ADHD or something because whenever the going gets boring, I start acting out. So here is the story, in my Gross lab, we have more people per table than necessary so most of the time more than half of us are just chilling and observing and doing nothing really productive while two people actually do work. In those periods I have a tendency to get bored and talk about random things such as politics or watch some sports on the side computers.
Anyways, today I was absolutely going hard and talked about the death of Prince and bringing up Dave Chapelle. On the topic of Dave Chappelle, I was referencing some of his hilarious skits like the KKK one, or the "I'm Rick James B**CH" or the Tyronne crack addict ones. I didn't notice it but some of my group members were apparently really offended by my use of language, even though I was mimicking what Chappelle says (Note: I never said the N word though, but I did say "darkness" as Rick James says it).

It was in this joking mood/end of the year mood that when it was time for us to decapitate the head, I, for whatever idiotic reason, though it was funny to hoist the decaptiated head high up as if I am holding a trophy.

One of my group members was absolutely mortified and screamed that I was so disrespectful. I have to say she was absolutely right. Afterwards, I apologized and realized I was acting like a huge and disrespectful idiot. However, later on, she reached out to me and told me that she will report me to the dean for my unprofessional behavior and how I mistreated the cadaver.

So my question is.

1. What should I do?
2. How do I refrain from keeping myself acting out and how do I keep myself preoccupied?
3. I'm a jokester type of person, and it's very difficult for me to not keep a light mood, but I recognize that I need to mature a whole lot. Any tips on keeping myself sane and not joking around and to exhibit professionalism 24/7? I just find it really hard to go from College where everyone can do whatever to the rigidity that is medical school and the constant need for professionalism and the threat of any violation of professionalism.
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Dude, just by reading this I can tell you have severe ADHD!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I work in a hospital right now and I sometimes wonder how a few of our physicians even made it through med school (or what they were like). Thanks for clearing that up for me.

It's okay to have fun or want attention, but you're training to be somebody's physician. Also, what if that cadaver was the body of one of your loved ones? Make an appointment if you think you need to get help, but mostly realize that there is a time and place, and you're not there to be funny.
 
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DrMaccoman said:
I, for whatever idiotic reason, thought it was funny to hoist the decapitated head high up as if I am holding a trophy. ... how I mistreated the cadaver.
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"Mistreated" is a huge understatement here ... You need to clean up your act asap or you'll eventually be thrown out of med school.

See a psychiatrist immediately to diagnose any potential underlying illnesses like ADHD.
 
Everything up to the last part is defensible but damn. Hope they don't kick you out for that but you do deserve some punishment 😳

I would pray for mercy tho.
 
1. What should I do now?

You try to handle the situation with maturity, poise, and diplomacy and pray administration buys it. Some pointers:

A) You own up to being extraordinarily unprofessional and don't make excuses. Make them aware that you know you done wrong, you will do whatever it takes to fix it, and it will never happen again. Keep you from falling further in the eyes of administration, might make them think you're more salvageable.

B) You seek psychologic and/or psychiatric counseling, as soon as you are able. This is both to address your fundamental problem and to show you are actively and independently working towards a solution.

C) You write a letter of apology to each and every one of your peers that you offended, again as soon as you are able. For the classmate that may be reporting you, include that you feel objectively she did the right thing and you bear no ill will in the least for reporting you. This might give you another chance at a relationship with your peers and will probably help if the school investigates the matter. It's also the right thing to do.

2. How do I refrain myself from keeping myself acting out and keep myself occupied?

If you're disciplined, use the time to study. Look at an anatomy atlas or something like Moores (or even material that isn't anatomy related, like Harrison's).

If you're disciplined in other ways, try to meditate or something. Or try to talk about something productive.

If you're not disciplined, then bring something like sudoku, or learn to draw. If you can bring a cell phone or ipod in with headphones, listen to an audiobook.

3. it's very difficult not to keep a light mood...Any tips on keeping myself not joking around...?

Learn that things don't need to be light. Humor is often a way of dealing with an uncomfortable situation, so learn to get comfortable with whatever you are dealing with.

Remember who you are with and where you are. The exact same phrase can be innocuous (or even positive) when spoken to a given person but instantly end your career when said to another. Err on the side of caution. If you feel the need to make jokes, write them down and tell them to your friends later in a safer place.

If you learn the rules of professionalism and how the game is played, you can learn how to fit what you are into how you need to act. That's a ways off for you yet, so I'll leave you with one last bit of advice: be a good person and make the days of people around you better in small (or big) ways. People like that sort of individual and want to keep him/her around, which means that they'll support and proactively advise to keep you out of trouble. Also, if you are in the habit of doing nice things then it's a safegaurd against doing something injurious/offensive, which is when you get in real professional trouble.
 
That move with the cadaver was not cool.

Still, just a bro tip: never do anything outside the strictly defined boundaries of laws and conventions in front of females. They have a tendency view themselves as vastly important upholders of all that is good and proper, and act accordingly to bring punishment and opprobrium against transgressors.

Keep stuff like this for bro consumption only lol.
 
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
That move with the cadaver was not cool.

Still, just a bro tip: never do anything outside the strictly defined boundaries of laws and conventions in front of females. They have a tendency view themselves as vastly important upholders of all that is good and proper, and act accordingly to bring punishment and opprobrium against transgressors.

Keep stuff like this for bro consumption only lol.
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i can't even tell if you are trolling or not lol
 
Of course I'm serious. When in the presence of American women I act and talk exactly as I would in the USSR with a political commissar nearby. I say or do nothing that could be construed as remotely not politically correct or otherwise "offensive." I'd rather hold my breath till they disappear than have all this hard work go to waste lol.
 
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
Of course I'm serious. When in the presence of American women I act and talk exactly as I would in the USSR with a political commissar nearby. I say or do nothing that could be construed as remotely not politically correct or otherwise "offensive." I'd rather hold my breath till they disappear than have all this hard work go to waste lol.
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This had me LOL'ing for about 10 seconds.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I've seen people do stuff with cadaver arms. Because it's a head I'd see why people would freak out more. You're an idiot for not knowing your surroundings and who you can or can not do stuff around.
 
Gotta be honest, I had a rant in me about the ridiculousness of medical school culture and how easily you can be labeled unprofessional for something that nobody would bat an eye at outside the bubble of medical school until I got to the part about holding the cadaver head up. That's pretty messed up man.
If the dean ends up having a word with you I think you can move past this by just being extremely apologetic and acknowledging that you shouldn't have done it and what lessons you have learned. If your school is anything like mine it's unlikely the school would try and push you out over this if this is your only misdeed so far. It takes a lot more than 1 isolated incident to dismiss a student for non-academic reasons. I'm not even necessarily convinced that this will wind up on your MSPE if you clean up your act from here on. It is not to the school's advantage to have students unmatched and admin can find themselves under the LCME's magnifying glass if they've got a ton of people SOAPing or worse, fail to pick up anything in the SOAP.
Consider this an important life lesson before you start rotations. You will be scrutinized for your behavior much more in your 3rd year than you are right now, and you could end up with a mediocre eval or professionalism ding for violations much less serious than this. If you think you might have ADHD you can see a psychiatrist and get evaluated. Not saying I think you have that but if you're worried you do it would be better to get it evaluated and treated for now before you hit the wards.
 
Sorry bro! Can't help you here. We've been indoctrinated with that professionalism BS from day 1 in med school. You just got to know how to play the game.
 
Yeah, you're rightfully screwed. It was made clear on day 1 that disrespecting a cadaver was the quickest way to get kicked out. Maybe your school will show leniency, but don't be surprised if they don't.

I mean Jesus H. Christ, I'm a very socially stupid person sometimes but using the head of a cadaver as a prop...
 
22031 Alum said:
Not playing with a cadaver is professionalism BS to you. Good to know.
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Seriously. I'm all about complaining about how inappropriate a professional culture is in the first two years of medical school, but this is so outside the realm of acceptable behavior. No wonder they came up with these policies in the first place.
 
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
Of course I'm serious. When in the presence of American women I act and talk exactly as I would in the USSR with a political commissar nearby. I say or do nothing that could be construed as remotely not politically correct or otherwise "offensive." I'd rather hold my breath till they disappear than have all this hard work go to waste lol.
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You're clearly smooth with the ladies... (the likes on this post are entirely unsurprising too)
 
22031 Alum said:
Not playing with a cadaver is professionalism BS to you. Good to know.
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I was not talking about that case in particular... Obviously, OP has some issues if what he describes is true. I actually don't believe a med student would be that clueless. Anyway, I was saying to OP that we all have to put on the professionalism BS face once we step into our respective med school. But once we are out, most of us do whatever pleases us.
 
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While I appreciate all the condescending remarks, I would be more appreciative if you guys could give me some advice and how to approach the situation I am in. I'm very worried and not sure what to do. Thank you.
 
W19 said:
I was not talking about that case in particular... Obviously, OP has some issues if what he describes is true. I actually don't believe a med student would be that clueless. Anyway, I was saying to OP that we all have to put the professionalism BS face once we step into our respective med school. and once we are out, most of us do whatever pleases us.

Just like the other day they put us with RN/MPH students for some PBL and everyone put on a face pretending they were enjoying the experience, but once thing was over, the people who said they were enjoying the experience started bashing these poor RN students for not knowing 'basic' things...
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Eh. I believe it. There was a student from my class who was apparantly giving unsupervised pelvic exams on his OB gyn rotation, which caused a controversy big enough that students from our school were no longer allowed to rotate at that community site and the department had to scramble to fit in a bunch of students, including me, into the main university site at the last minute. Strangely enough that student wasn't dismissed and I'm assuming he/she matched. I really am not convinced medical students are all that different from the general population in terms of emotional intelligence and behavior honestly. Most know what to do. Some people have issues and have blow-ups like the OP which can unfortunately have major career implications if an admin decides an example should be made (and arguably that's how it should be, but that's another argument).
 
Troll or no, it's a teaching moment.

At my school, the OP would be sent to our Professionalism committee, be forced to take a LOA, and be told, "go fix the problem" and referenced to some counseling or therapy, and maybe even a psychiatrist.

Usually, with problem students, there is a "tip of the iceberg" phenomenon, whereby someone like the OP has already gotten onto the Faculty's radar, but not enough in an egregious way as int he Anatomy lab incident described.

The Dean has this belief that once we admit people, we should try hard to see to it that they graduate, so OP would lose a year and have a note in his/her Dean's letter, but more importantly, a lot of eyeballs would be on the OP when they came back. Any further slipups would then be grounds for dismissal.
 
DrMaccoman said:
While I appreciate all the condescending remarks, I would be more appreciative if you guys could give me some advice and how to approach the situation I am in. I'm very worried and not sure what to do. Thank you.
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Beat her to it. Go talk to your Dean yourself, and leave a paper trail. Administrations love trying to **** students over. Do everything you can to show youre taking responsibility and make sure theres proof.
 
DrMaccoman said:
While I appreciate all the condescending remarks, I would be more appreciative if you guys could give me some advice and how to approach the situation I am in. I'm very worried and not sure what to do. Thank you.
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Sorry man! I think you should follow the plan that post #13 suggests. GL
 
Goro said:
The Dean has this belief that once we admit people, we should try hard to see to it that they graduate, so OP would lose a year and have a note in his/her Dean's letter, but more importantly, a lot of eyeballs would be on the OP when they came back. Any further slipups would then be grounds for dismissal.
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That would make residency directors think twice before taking that student into their program. I think if it is only one incident and the individual rectifies his/her behavior, I don't think it's warranted to put that unfortunate incident in the dean letter.
 
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DrMaccoman said:
While I appreciate all the condescending remarks, I would be more appreciative if you guys could give me some advice and how to approach the situation I am in. I'm very worried and not sure what to do. Thank you.
Click to expand...

There's not a whole lot of advice beyond be extremely apologetic and self-deprecating when or if the deans speak to you. I still don't think you are at risk of losing your medical career over this or anything extreme but I think some introspection is important. Why do you feel you have problems with groups? Why do you get easily distracted? I don't think it makes you a bad student or doctor if you find anatomy extremely boring. (I did, and I'm going IM) But even before the whole holding the cadaver head up thing if I had you for a partner you would give me the impression that you don't really care and you consider the exercise beneath you. That certainly wouldn't warrant me reporting you for poor professionalism but in medicine you sometimes have to think about how you come off to other people. Much of how you are evaluated in medical school and residency is based on what your resident and attending superiors think of your work ethic and clinical skills, and it is often random and unfair (there are whole threads dedicated to this on SDN), so it's not wise to give people ammunition if you can avoid doing it.
You should wait and see if this escalates (it may very well not), and if it doesn't wipe away your sweat and just take it as a lesson going forward. If it does, just apologize profusely and talk about what you've learned from the experience.
 
WingedOx said:
Believe it. My med school class had a cadaver story that tops the OP's. The girl got off with a slap on the wrist from what I remember.
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But we are all warned from day 1 not to do anything inappropriate with these cadavers! I understand someone could be in trouble for making a stupid joke, but there are certain things that are off limit.
 
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W19 said:
That would make residency directors think twice before taking that student into their program. I think if it is only one incident and the individual rectifies his/her behavior, I don't think it's warranted to put that unfortunate incident in the dean letter.
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I agree. The deans are not out to make their students unmatchable if they can avoid it. This would ultimately harm both the student and the school and run the risk of graduating the student with a debt they may never get back. There was a study some years ago of MSPEs that found less than 1% of them mentioned professionalism comments in a negative way. So 99%+ of US medical students are all squeaky clean who never run into trouble with their faculty? I kind of doubt it. More likely a lot of students have minor lapses along the way (i.e. being late, coming off as rude or unmotivated, showing up disheveled for a day, etc) that they get talked to about that ultimately don't make it to the MSPE because the students adjust. I suspect that if MSPEs were all truly honest, you'd see a lot more (maybe the majority?) of students with minor professionalism marks on their MSPE and it would become less of a red flag to have one on there.
 
Goro said:
Troll or no, it's a teaching moment.

At my school, the OP would be sent to our Professionalism committee, be forced to take a LOA, and be told, "go fix the problem" and referenced to some counseling or therapy, and maybe even a psychiatrist.

Usually, with problem students, there is a "tip of the iceberg" phenomenon, whereby someone like the OP has already gotten onto the Faculty's radar, but not enough in an egregious way as int he Anatomy lab incident described.

The Dean has this belief that once we admit people, we should try hard to see to it that they graduate, so OP would lose a year and have a note in his/her Dean's letter, but more importantly, a lot of eyeballs would be on the OP when they came back. Any further slipups would then be grounds for dismissal.
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I'm glad I don't go to your school. 1 year is excessive
 
sliceofbread136 said:
I'm glad I don't go to your school. 1 year is excessive
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I disagree, it is a minimum for this if true. Outright dismissal is also reasonable. This type of behavior is far outside the bounds of acceptable behavior and I suspect that those students who don't report it may face some discussion with the medical school leadership. Sorry, some things are too far and this is one of them.

To the OP: You need to speak to the dean and follow their guidance respectfully. Do not use untreated medical illness as a reason, simply acknowledge responsibility and accept the consequences.
 
oldbearprofessor said:
I disagree, it is a minimum for this if true. Outright dismissal is also reasonable. This type of behavior is far outside the bounds of acceptable behavior and I suspect that those students who don't report it may face some discussion with the medical school leadership. Sorry, some things are too far and this is one of them.

To the OP: You need to speak to the dean and follow their guidance respectfully. Do not use untreated medical illness as a reason, simply acknowledge responsibility and accept the consequences.
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Glad I don't go to your school too. Sure op is a ****** but 1 year of someone's career for holding up a head?
 
I don't remember decapitating the head in anatomy. We dissected the neck and face but I think we left it attached. 5/7 troll 4 sure.
 
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My school would not have had anyone take a LOA either, but I can't imagine anyone in my class doing what OP did, so I'm not 100% sure on that. It just sounds extremely childish. There are legitimate things to gripe about with administrations about, but even if they dismissed OP, I couldn't blame them that much. He not only jeopardized his education, but he probably made his entire class look like idiots.
 
Oh, my.

For your sake, I hope that you are like, 22, and have never had a real job of any kind. That would explain your lack of maturity and professionalism.

Your difficulty with being serious, understanding boundaries and appropriateness does not necessarily get excused with a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD. Sure, go see a therapist or advisor of some sort to talk about learning some social skills and how to gauge whether your behavior is offensive to others. But don't look to excuse yourself from the responsibility to work on these life skills by blaming a disease. You aren't ill... you just need to finish growing up.

As for your situation. Don't excuse it. Apologize. Immediately and sincerely, and without concern about whether the apology gets you out of trouble. Responsible, professional adults apologize when they realize that they are in the wrong, not just when the get called on it and risk getting in trouble.

Write a simple and unqualified apology to your lab partners or anyone else who may have witnessed and been offended by your behavior. Don't excuse it. Don't try to mitigate your responsibility. Just say that you got carried away and behaved in a way that, in retrospect, you are embarrassed by. Tell them that you are especially upset with yourself for causing distress to others, and that, while you cannot take it back, at least you can do better in the future.

A sincere apology goes very far toward repairing a situation, but it doesn't fix everything. You have to follow it up by changing your behavior. Find someone whose behavior you respect, and use them as a role model. Think about how they would handle situations. Spend more time observing how others act, so that you can learn to appreciate what the expected norms are for that situation, before you forge forward with your interpretation of some bold comedy routine you saw.

If you do get reported to the Dean, ask if you can meet to discuss the matter. As above, apologize and describe how you intend to change your behavior going forward. Apologize for doing the thing, for the negative effect it had on others, and for causing the Dean to need to have this unpleasant conversation with you. That is your best bet to be given a second chance. If you do get one, express gratitude by not blowing it.

I can only give this advice because I have done more than my share of dumb things, too. You aren't a bad person, just someone who is learning some important lessons a little later than perhaps you ought to have. That's cool... now just fix it and do better.
 
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