Tiers of med school?

[isa]

I'm applying this June. I keep hearing about high/mid/low-tiered schools. How do I figure out which schools belong to which tier? Is a list available anywhere?

Thanks in advance.

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[Col_4:14]

This should help
US News and World Reports

 

[gower]

Which "tier" level of medical school you might be competitive for depends upon your grades, especially the science courses, your MCAT score, and a miscellany of other things that your premedical advisor is in the best position to tell you. You can apply to Harvard, UC-San Francisco, wherever you want to, but you have to be realistic about your competitive level.

 

[GoatBoy]

Are the tiers determined by just GPA and MCAT scores? ie. low GPA's indicate a low tiered scool.
Are there many exceptions to this? eg. I think Wake Forest is a pretty good school, but its GPA stats aren't that high, comparatively.

 

[axlf1997]

Depends on school sometimes & what they find impt. Some schools will take whoever so long as they have high scores (Wash U comes to mind), whereas others won't look at scores once you've passed their cut and will judge you almost solely on your interviews (having felt that you've already made the academic cut) - these tend to have lower GPA's.

Originally posted by theking:
•Are the tiers determined by just GPA and MCAT scores? ie. low GPA's indicate a low tiered scool.
Are there many exceptions to this? eg. I think Wake Forest is a pretty good school, but its GPA stats aren't that high, comparatively.•

 

[turtleboard]

In my mind there are only really two-tiers of medical school. 1) Schools lay people have heard of and 2) Schools lay people have never heard of.

My system isn't really based on anything except for the opinion of your friends and neighbors, the only people who should probably care where you're going to med school.

For example I go to a tier 2 school (school no one's ever heard of). Many of my friends from college and my own little brother attend a tier 1 school (NYU). But understand that a school like Penn State-Hershey may very well be ranked in the same tier as NYU since it's a school that people have heard of. The Medical University of South Carolina may be a tier 2 school.

 

[ringo643]

I can understand why you might subscribe to such a system, but look at it rationally. Grading schools on the basis of academic requirements and reputation is at least somewhat helpful (though not very). Whereas the opinions of my friends and neighbors means nothing to me when it comes to medical school. I mean, if you were to ask the average person: "which is a better medical school, Princeton or Washington University?" they'd probably go with the Ivy, even though there's no med school at princeton. I don't trust the opinion of lay people when it comes to academic reputation.
To answer the original poster: yes, there are tiers in medical school quality. There are probably the top 25, of which the top 10 make up a special sub category. Then anything from 26-80 probably falls into the middle, and then there's the 30-50 schools that are not as hard to get into, and would make the 'lower' tier. I don't think that this makes them worse schools, necessarily. You'll get out of your education what you put into it. So my advice is not to focus on the rankings, but instead on where you feel that you fit in best and will be happiest. Good luck. (sorry for the long post)

Originally posted by turtleboard:
•In my mind there are only really two-tiers of medical school. 1) Schools lay people have heard of and 2) Schools lay people have never heard of.

My system isn't really based on anything except for the opinion of your friends and neighbors, the only people who should probably care where you're going to med school.

For example I go to a tier 2 school (school no one's ever heard of). Many of my friends from college and my own little brother attend a tier 1 school (NYU). But understand that a school like Penn State-Hershey may very well be ranked in the same tier as NYU since it's a school that people have heard of. The Medical University of South Carolina may be a tier 2 school.•

 

[anna]

The only system that ranks ALL the med schools is Gourman's. It is a copywritten rank list and is available through libraries or your premed counselling office. sometimes, people try to publish the lists on the web, so try doing a search with the following key words: Gourman ranking medical schools.

 

[Fermi]

Originally posted by anna:
•The only system that ranks ALL the med schools is Gourman's. It is a copywritten rank list and is available through libraries or your premed counselling office. sometimes, people try to publish the lists on the web, so try doing a search with the following key words: Gourman ranking medical schools.•

The latest Gourman Report on medical schools that I've seen, on the web or in print, was from 1996 or 1997. Have they discontinued this ranking? I liked it since I my future med school is about 20 spots higher than it is in USNews

 

[b-real]

I always heard that Dr. Gourman was something of a fraud and his lists don't carry much weight. If anyone can clarify the complaints of his list, it would be great.

 

[abbeydesert]

I think the knock on Gourman is that he doesn't clarify the methodology used to generate the rankings. However, even if you're a Gourman fan, you can relax about his medical school ratings. He doesn't rank a single U.S. medical school below the "Acceptable Plus" category- in contrast to his ratings of some other graduate programs. I think that just reflects the effectiveness of the LCME accreditation process in forcing ALL schools to meet certain minimum guidelines.
To the original poster- to decide which "lower-tier" schools to apply to, get a copy of the MSAR. Look for schools with average stats lower than yours; if it's an out-of-state public school, make sure that the school accepts a significant proportion of applicants from out-of-state (At least 10-15% - these state schools include Vermont, Penn State, MCV, MCW, Eastern Virginia, etc. Watch out for schools like East Carolina or West Virginia- though their average stats may be low, they don't normally accept non-residents without significant ties to the state.

 

[jofrbr76]

where can we get a copy of the MSAR, i tryed the book stores and my local library didn't have it either. ???

 

[abbeydesert]

You can order the MSAR from AAMC- looks like they're currently out of stock though: http://pnet400.aamc.org/AAMC_Store/itemDetail.cfm?store=PUBLICATIONS&item=ARA1&category=
Apparently a new edition is supposed to be coming out this month, hence the delay. However, you probably need the info sooner rather than later! You might check a college library- otherwise, a decent alternative source is the Princeton Review's Complete Book of Medical Schools, which ships from Amazon in 24 hours: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0375761535/o/qid=991236511/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/002-7742091-9398451
I've heard some of the data in the latter book is dated, but it's still a useful starting point.
For a quick online source, try the PR's web site: http://www.review.com/medical/searchhome.cfm?medical=2&menuID=0
This site has stats on all the U.S. medical schools that should get you started.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by turtleboard:
•But understand that a school like Penn State-Hershey may very well be ranked in the same tier as NYU since it's a school that people have heard of.•

Would it be the football or the chocolate that's responsible for the recognition?!

 

[coop]

a pair of links with the gourman report, one has just the top 30, and the second has a bunch (from 1998) and averages it with the 2000 US news ranking for a supposed comprehensive ranking. enjoy!!
http://www.sanet.co.kr/html3/mdgourman.html
http://www.edureport.com/Rank/medicine.html

 

[dnt107]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
•
Would it be the football or the chocolate that's responsible for the recognition?! •

Clearly not the football as of recently!

And I don't exactly think its gonna get much better next year. The chocolate, however, has staying power. Don't forget Hershey's Ice Cream though...its really quality stuff as well. But for a real Penn State treat, go to the Creamery on main campus and enjoy some of the best home grown stuff around. (sigh) I'm gonna miss dear old State.

 

[yigit]

Anyone have a good guess as to why Tulane is #16 in one of these lists and not in the top 50 in the other? I'm trying to explain to my parents why I choose Tulane over more prestigious schools and they're just not buying the Boobs on Bourbon Street argument.

 

[lilycat]

One big reason why I think Tulane is not the US News top 50 is because of lack of research funds. Also, in past years I heard that Tulane had not submitted it's info. to US News for the rankings -- I definitely think some politics is playing into their non-ranking this year.

 

[turtleboard]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
•
Would it be the football or the chocolate that's responsible for the recognition?! •

I'm inclined to say their football, but if you've ever taken a trip to Hershey you'll realize that 1) Everyone in Hershey, PA works for either Hershey Medical Center or Hershey Foods Corporation and 2) the whole damn town smells like chocolate 24 hours a day!



Hey Kim... Is the fanciest place to eat in town STILL Bob Evans'?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by turtleboard:
•I'm inclined to say their football, but if you've ever taken a trip to Hershey you'll realize that 1) Everyone in Hershey, PA works for either Hershey Medical Center or Hershey Foods Corporation and 2) the whole damn town smells like chocolate 24 hours a day!



Hey Kim... Is the fanciest place to eat in town STILL Bob Evans'?•

Hey we've got an Applebees now!

Funny thing, I've never picked up on the Chocolate smell. I'm hoping to maintain that as I'm a major chocoholic!

 

[turtleboard]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
•Hey we've got an Applebees now!

Funny thing, I've never picked up on the Chocolate smell. I'm hoping to maintain that as I'm a major chocoholic! •

Actually I think Applebee's was there when I interviewed at Penn State... You think Applebee's is better than Bob Evans'? HOW DARE YOU!

Didn't pick up on the chocolate smell? Yeah, it's hard to really take it in when you're on the med center campus. Drive down the road near that Giant Supermarket and perhaps a little farther into town (no more than 7 minutes from the med center), roll down your windows, and "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..."

Methinks it was a mistake to give that up to come to med school at SUNY.