Time for a 3rd shot?
Started by jwk
Nice strawman, but I've never seen anyone here claim that side effect risk couldn't possibly be increased.
The salient point is that
the incidence of myocarditis from an actual covid infection is around 450 / 1 million cases. The incidence of myocarditis from the vaccine is 70 / 1 million cases. . And do you remember when 1597 athletes who were covid positive underwent workup and 2.3% of them had evidence of myocarditis based on cardiac MRI?
The rate of myocarditis from the vaccine would have to go up 7-fold to rival the risk of infection, and that's before even considering the the other not insignificant risks of covid.
Accept that you always conveniently forget the other half of the equation: benefit. The benefit that vaccination provides to the previously infected is orders of magnitude less (if anything) vs the benefits to the previously uninfected.
Accept that you really don't have a clue how strong or durable natural immunity is and your assessment of what one (or two) shots can do for a prior infected person (especially someone infected over a year ago) is based on nothing but your gut feeling from retrospective data prone to selection bias.
Usual disclaimer that this study from Rush was in JAMA open access. And further, while igg levels are suggestive they are nowhere near definitive enough to determine the scope of immunity. However it's enough to lead me to believe that the hypothesis for a future study should be prior infection (confirmed with serology, not just PCR) + 1 dose is comparable to two vaccine doses in an infection-naive individual.
jamanetwork.com
SARS-CoV-2 Antibody Responses After 1 and 2 Doses of the BNT162b2 Vaccine
This cohort study examines antibody responses in infection-naive and previously infected individuals after 1 and 2 doses of the BNT162b2 vaccine.
jamanetwork.com
Na. It's based upon logic that borders on common sense.
Oh, and then there are always the long term unknowns of continually monkeying with the immune system (not that the immune system/inflammation plays a role in any of the chronic diseases such as autoimmunity, cancer, cerebrovascular disease, cardiovascular disease, dementia, etc).
I suppose if nobody wants to connect the dots..
"Common sense" has been wrong so many times before in medicine that we lost count 200 years ago.
Science | AAAS
It's absurd to make a hypothesis that all prior infections are sufficient when the preliminary data of prior infection + 1 dose looks like this.
"
Abstract
More than one year after its inception, the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) remains difficult to control despite the availability of several working vaccines. Progress in controlling the pandemic is slowed by the emergence of variants that appear to be more transmissible and more resistant to antibodies1,2. Here we report on a cohort of 63 individuals who have recovered from COVID-19 assessed at 1.3, 6.2 and 12 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection, 41% of whom also received mRNA vaccines3,4. In the absence of vaccination, antibody reactivity to the receptor binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2, neutralizing activity and the number of RBD-specific memory B cells remain relatively stable between 6 and 12 months after infection. Vaccination increases all components of the humoral response and, as expected, results in serum neutralizing activities against variants of concern similar to or greater than the neutralizing activity against the original Wuhan Hu-1 strain achieved by vaccination of naive individuals2,5,6,7,8. The mechanism underlying these broad-based responses involves ongoing antibody somatic mutation, memory B cell clonal turnover and development of monoclonal antibodies that are exceptionally resistant to SARS-CoV-2 RBD mutations, including those found in the variants of concern4,9. In addition, B cell clones expressing broad and potent antibodies are selectively retained in the repertoire over time and expand markedly after vaccination. The data suggest that immunity in convalescent individuals will be very long lasting and that convalescent individuals who receive available mRNA vaccines will produce antibodies and memory B cells that should be protective against circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants"
Naturally enhanced neutralizing breadth against SARS-CoV-2 one year after infection - Nature
Antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 continue to evolve 6 to 12 months after infection in patients who have recovered from COVID-19, increasing in potency and breadth with time.
www.nature.com
Serology positive prior infected may have some good immunity to alpha for a year. Wouldn't count on it for delta and future variants.
D
deleted87051
Heart Problem More Common After Covid-19 Than After Vaccination, Study Finds (Published 2021)
The research did not assess the risks specifically for young males, who are the most likely to develop the rare side effect.
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D
deleted87051
Covid infection protection waning in double jabbed
Experts say it is to be expected and boosters may be needed, at least for some people, ahead of winter.
www.bbc.com
Fever, Myaglias, Excessively Tired, Headache, etc are common side-effects. I urge you all to think about your 1st and 2nd shots then plan accordingly for your 3rd shot. If you had symptoms from dose 1 and/or 2 you will likely have similar symptoms from dose 3.
As for waiting until September 20th the data suggests otherwise:
Federal regulators are likely to approve a Covid-19 booster shot for vaccinated adults starting at least six months after the previous dose rather than the eight-month gap they previously announced, a person familiar with the plans said, as the Biden administration steps up preparations for delivering boosters to the public.
Data from vaccine manufacturers and other countries under review by the Food and Drug Administration is based on boosters being given at six months, the person said. The person said approval for boosters for all three Covid-19 shots being administered in the U.S.—those manufactured by Pfizer Inc. and partner BioNTech SE, Moderna Inc. and Johnson & Johnson —is expected in mid-September.
The Biden administration and companies have said that there should be enough supply for boosters that they plan to begin distributing more widely on Sept. 20. The U.S. has purchased a combined 1 billion doses from Pfizer and Moderna.
Leana Wen, health policy professor at George Washington University, said approving boosters starting at six months after a previous dose makes sense based on available data on waning immunity. “That doesn’t mean every patient needs to get a booster at six months,” she said.
As for waiting until September 20th the data suggests otherwise:
Federal regulators are likely to approve a Covid-19 booster shot for vaccinated adults starting at least six months after the previous dose rather than the eight-month gap they previously announced, a person familiar with the plans said, as the Biden administration steps up preparations for delivering boosters to the public.
Data from vaccine manufacturers and other countries under review by the Food and Drug Administration is based on boosters being given at six months, the person said. The person said approval for boosters for all three Covid-19 shots being administered in the U.S.—those manufactured by Pfizer Inc. and partner BioNTech SE, Moderna Inc. and Johnson & Johnson —is expected in mid-September.
The Biden administration and companies have said that there should be enough supply for boosters that they plan to begin distributing more widely on Sept. 20. The U.S. has purchased a combined 1 billion doses from Pfizer and Moderna.
Leana Wen, health policy professor at George Washington University, said approving boosters starting at six months after a previous dose makes sense based on available data on waning immunity. “That doesn’t mean every patient needs to get a booster at six months,” she said.
Question everything. I am a 3 shot person; I believe the vaccine ( 3 doses) to be in my best interest. I considered all the evidence and weighed the risks.
I think you should do the same and make your own decision. If you had the alpha variant infection then one shot 3-5 months later may be sufficient for you to protect against the Delta variant.
If you decide against the third dose due to side-effects that is a perfectly rational decision if you under age 50 and healthy.
I do question the wisdom of no immunity at all to the delta variant as a "reasonable choice" for anyone over age 50 but I still defend your right to make such a choice.
My wife and I are heading to Burning man then Orladno and then to the Caribbean in a few weeks. 100% getting a 3rd dose.
I have received two doses and will get a third if and when moderna shows a waning immunity to the level of pfizer. I am also all for anyone who wants the vaccine after natural immunity. The evidence is lacking for that specific group to be forced and lose livelihoods over it is all ive been trying to say this whole time.
Where in the caribbean?
St John.
Boops… St Thomas
Booster done.
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D
deleted126335
Wise to get it on a Friday...Assuming you are not working the weekend.
Evidence is mounting your booster shot should be this month. Do not wait any longer if possible.
www.cnbc.com
I had my usual side effects from the booster Shot. I recommend at least 48 hours of no work after the booster. If 48 hours is too much then at least no work the following day. YMMV but I’m glad I had 48 hours off following the booster.
Biden says U.S. health officials are considering Covid booster shots at 5 months, moving up timeline of third shot
New data from Israel shows a booster dose provided four times as much protection against infection from the delta variant than the previous two-dose regimen.
I had my usual side effects from the booster Shot. I recommend at least 48 hours of no work after the booster. If 48 hours is too much then at least no work the following day. YMMV but I’m glad I had 48 hours off following the booster.
Why wait until September, especially if you work in a high risk field like anesthesiology? I 100% know of clinics that are throwing away extra vaccine because people aren't coming to get vaccinated. If you want your 3rd shot before the CDC's blessing there are certainly ways to get it and have personal piece of mind, even if slightly unethical
Moderna or Pfizer?Evidence is mounting your booster shot should be this month. Do not wait any longer if possible.
Biden says U.S. health officials are considering Covid booster shots at 5 months, moving up timeline of third shot
New data from Israel shows a booster dose provided four times as much protection against infection from the delta variant than the previous two-dose regimen.
I had my usual side effects from the booster Shot. I recommend at least 48 hours of no work after the booster. If 48 hours is too much then at least no work the following day. YMMV but I’m glad I had 48 hours off following the booster.
I have no side effects except for some mild inflamation at the injection site in my deltoid. Just feels like a deep bruise which is 100% tolerable. I didn't have any reaction the first 2 times.
*pfizer all 3 times
Moderna for initial 2… really just myalgia and fatigue for 24 hours. About to get 3rd shot. Have rest of weekend to recover and back to work Monday. Getting my ice and scotch ready
First two seemed like saline injections. Third one was full blown flu like symptoms the full next day; fever, chills, aches, total sh** feeling.... And I loved it! Reassuring to me to know I was very likely getting a good immune response.
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Interesting you mention this. I wonder if taking antiinflamatory meds during the immediate days after the vaccine would decrease the vaccines effectiveness by blunting the immune response.
Same. Felt a little febrile day 2 but exercises probably didn’t help. Day 3 was much better and shoulder still a smidge sore
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Yep. Exactly same for me. I was questioning whether I actually GOT the injection the first two times. The 3rd shot I was like “Yep, got injected for sure”
headache myalgia slight fatigue… exactly how i felt first 2 shots - Moderna
3rd shot easily available at the national pharmacy chains in my area. I'm getting mine next Friday before the holiday weekend. 🙂 Our hospital will have them available in September, but why wait?
Pfizer/Pfizer / now moderna. Day 1. Feel terrible. Gerd (or dissection or mi), nausea myalgias, allodynia, headache. I tried to not take Tylenol for the previous two absolutely am this time.
I guess it's a good sign....
I guess it's a good sign....
My 3rd shot left me feeling weak, tired with myalgias for 3-4 days. I am so glad to have had an easy week with some time off. YMMV, but not everyone has symptoms from the 3rd shot. I would do it again if needed a 4th time in the Spring to avoid the next variant which may pop-up. The peace of mind from having a booster shot is fantastic.
My same thought process. Second day (day after injection) was pretty rough but I rode it out without anti-inflammatory meds. Don't know if it matters but I was going to let the immune response run it's natural course. Third day was 95% better, maybe a touch tired from being beaten up the second day.
I got Moderna for all 3 of my shots. The symptoms were definitely the worst after the third shot. Myalgias, fatigue, headache, chills. It also took me longer to feel 100% again, like 2 days instead of 24 hours from the second shot.
Why are you people getting the third shot
Freedom hating monsters
Freedom hating monsters
The microchip that altered my DNA told me to.
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I'm still waiting for them to offer it to the military...although at this point I might just schedule my own at the local CVS or whatever.
Got my 3rd pfizer shot last thursday. Actually had less symptoms than my second shot, but still had chills, nausea and overall weakness. Still did ICU work day after. Got home took some tylenol about 24 hrs from the shot, went to bed and was fine the next day. I was about exactly 7 months from my second shot.
Yeah. No symptoms on the first 2 rounds. 3rd one I got some myalgias about 24hrs after the vaccine and some armpit lymphadenopathy.
If you're getting a 3rd shot why wouldn't you mix it up and take a different one than the first 2?
The third shot protects you against the well documented radio frequency mediated gender DNA reversal of the first two shots. I read it on InfoWars.
Oh that explains why my wein...I was in the pool!
My .mil hospital won't give me a 3rd shot yet.
Stopped by CVS yesterday, they wouldn't give me one either, since I'm not immunocompromised.
Might try Walgreens tomorrow and tell them I had a spleen transplant or something.
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