Timeline between graduation & first job

[orangecat2018]

Hi all! I'm a current 4th year and in the process of signing a contract for my first job. I'm hoping to start very shortly after graduation, but am now a bit worried about the timeline between graduation, actually receiving my license, and obtaining my DEA & anything else needed before practice. I had initially talked to my future employer about a start date ~1.5 weeks after graduation.
Does anyone (specifically looking for Massachusetts info) have experience with how long it took between graduation and actually receiving everything necessary to practice? I've heard mention of temporary permits that allow you to practice under another licensed veterinarian, but cannot find any concrete info on that from googling. Thanks!

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[JaynaAli]

I can’t speak for Massachusetts specifically, but after graduation it took about 6 weeks for Colorado to process my application. I graduated very early May, sent in my paperwork the next week (as soon as my diploma was finalized), and it wasn’t until halfway through my first week of internship in mid-June that it came through. And Colorado doesn’t have a board exam. That is the busiest time of year with the most applications to process so I’d say having a license back in a week and a half is very unlikely (without knowing anything from Mass). In more recent years, it took 3-4 weeks to hear back from Tennessee when I got licensed there. And Oklahoma got back to me in days of my application in mid October of this year saying they’d received it, but didn’t offer the state board exam until early December so I wasn’t fully licensed for over 6 weeks after first applying there. State boards are not fast. You may be able to call or email your state board to see what their usual timeline is and what options there may be in the interim or if you’re just not allowed to work. My internship program knew Colorado would take 6 weeks so they’d stressed to us to submit the week we graduated so it would be approved the first week of our internships.

 

[DVMDream]

Psst... if you're not doing an internship give yourself a breath and period of relaxation post graduation. If you can afford to that is. I technically was done with school in March, graduated in May and started work in mid-June. I actually wish I had waited a bit longer, but it was fine. I honestly can't recall the timeline in which I received everything. I know I had my state license but can't recall if I had my DEA yet or not.

 

[Trilt]

Psst... if you're not doing an internship give yourself a breath and period of relaxation post graduation. If you can afford to that is. I technically was done with school in March, graduated in May and started work in mid-June. I actually wish I had waited a bit longer, but it was fine. I honestly can't recall the timeline in which I received everything. I know I had my state license but can't recall if I had my DEA yet or not.

I agree. I took a break from graduation to mid-August and it was faabbulous.

 

[finnickthedog]

Don't know about Massachusetts but I had my license about 4-5 weeks after graduating. Wasn't accredited for several more weeks after that (which in my state meant I couldn't do rabies vaccines on dogs).

I started work before I was licensed though. I just couldn't do everything. But that was fine because I was mostly just getting oriented for the first week or so anyways.

Taking additional time off before starting definitely sounds like a nice way to do things if you can afford it. I could not. Could barely afford the month that I did take.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Hi all! I'm a current 4th year and in the process of signing a contract for my first job. I'm hoping to start very shortly after graduation, but am now a bit worried about the timeline between graduation, actually receiving my license, and obtaining my DEA & anything else needed before practice. I had initially talked to my future employer about a start date ~1.5 weeks after graduation.
Does anyone (specifically looking for Massachusetts info) have experience with how long it took between graduation and actually receiving everything necessary to practice? I've heard mention of temporary permits that allow you to practice under another licensed veterinarian, but cannot find any concrete info on that from googling. Thanks!

I can guarantee your license will not be ready for MA. You don’t need a DEA license to start your job but you will need your state license.

The whole working “under” someone else’s license is not a thing. Don’t fall for it even if your employer tells you it is. You don’t want to practice even on one patient without malpractice insurance, and you can’t get that without a license either.

If you want to get a sense of how long it took te past couple of years’ graduates to get their licenses after graduation, google “ma veterinary license lookup” and look up their names. The exact date they were initially licensed comes up. That should give you an idea as to what the timeline will be.

 

[finnickthedog]

The whole working “under” someone else’s license is not a thing. Don’t fall for it even if your employer tells you it is. You don’t want to practice even on one patient without malpractice insurance, and you can’t get that without a license either.

I just want to clarify on this note (because it is a very valid point) that although I started my job before I was licensed I was *not* practicing medicine. I was shadowing another doctor, learning how the software worked, where things were located, etc. I was otherwise basically a glorified vet assistant for that period.

I got my license a few days in but continued to mostly just get oriented for the rest of the first week-ish.

I did not start practicing medicine until after I was licensed. I just want to clarify this in case my previous post implied otherwise.

 

[SkiOtter]

I agree. I took a break from graduation to mid-August and it was faabbulous.

Yeah I’m not starting until august 1st and living with my parents over the summer and I cannot wait for 2.5 months of uninterrupted time off 😂

 

[orangecat2018]

Thank you all for the helpful replies! I was able to look up the previous year's licensing dates, and it looks like they were issues within 2 weeks of graduation! So especially if I have an orientation period where I'm learning software etc, I think an early June start would be okay. I also have quite a bit of vacation time from clinics saved up and plan to use them in the few weeks before graduation, so I will still be getting a break

@Minnerbelle could you clarify about not needing a DEA to practice - what does that look like in the context of if I need access to controlled mediations before getting my own license?

 

[JaynaAli]

Often a vet at a hospital will have a dea license that can cover in hospital use and dispensing if controlled meds, so you could access anesthesia drugs without having your own dea license. I don’t think you can call them in anywhere without your own without a dea license if your own, but I might be wrong. But you absolutely couldn’t/shouldn’t touch them before having your own license to practice, that’s a good way to make the DEA angry and get the vet who actually has a dea license and is responsible for those meds in major trouble.

 

[DVMDream]

Do not do anything with controlled meds without a DEA. That whole "you don't need a DEA if another vet has a DEA at the clinic" is very not true (even for in hospital use). So far, I've not heard of anyone getting in trouble, but you definitely can. They're making us take so much extra CE with all the new DEA opioid laws and this was specifically addressed in those CE courses. I know it is $$$ but just get your own DEA.

 

[futuredvm297]

Rumor has it California no longer has a state board exam! What is the timeline to apply for state license/DEA license? I know most employers will reimburse the fees, so should that be done now?

 

[finnickthedog]

Rumor has it California no longer has a state board exam! What is the timeline to apply for state license/DEA license? I know most employers will reimburse the fees, so should that be done now?

I'm in a different state and weirdly I somehow already don't recall this even though it's been less than a year, but I'm pretty sure I needed a state license in order to apply for the DEA. If that's the case, then I wouldn't worry about the DEA yet since you can't apply for it anyways.

Don't know how other states work, but in my state I apparently could have applied for my license as early as 2 years before I graduated. I got that out of the way pretty much as soon as I'd accepted a job and then it was just kind of sitting there pending until I met all the requirements. There were steps to getting licensed that I wasn't really aware of until I was in the process of applying (such as having to go get my fingerprints done) so I'm glad I didn't wait longer.

 

[SkiOtter]

I'm in a different state and weirdly I somehow already don't recall this even though it's been less than a year, but I'm pretty sure I needed a state license in order to apply for the DEA. If that's the case, then I wouldn't worry about the DEA yet since you can't apply for it anyways.

Don't know how other states work, but in my state I apparently could have applied for my license as early as 2 years before I graduated. I got that out of the way pretty much as soon as I'd accepted a job and then it was just kind of sitting there pending until I met all the requirements. There were steps to getting licensed that I wasn't really aware of until I was in the process of applying (such as having to go get my fingerprints done) so I'm glad I didn't wait longer.

You apply for them both at the same time in MI. I just did it last weekend 😂
I still need to get fingerprinted and for my school to send transcripts at the end of the year and ICVA to pass along my scores, but I figured I’d get the ball rolling.

 

[finnickthedog]

You apply for them both at the same time in MI. I just did it last weekend 😂
I still need to get fingerprinted and for my school to send transcripts at the end of the year and ICVA to pass along my scores, but I figured I’d get the ball rolling.

DEA or state controlled substance license? Because they're different but you need both.

State controlled substance you can do at the same time and I did.

I definitely didn't apply for my DEA until I started work, I just can't remember if thats because I literally couldn't until licensed or some other reason.

 

[SkiOtter]

DEA or state controlled substance license? Because they're different but you need both.

State controlled substance you can do at the same time and I did.

I definitely didn't apply for my DEA until I started work, I just can't remember if thats because I literally couldn't until licensed or some other reason.

I could’ve sworn it said DEA when I applied but guess I’m just imagining things again 😂 #clinicsbrain

 

[Minnerbelle]

Thank you all for the helpful replies! I was able to look up the previous year's licensing dates, and it looks like they were issues within 2 weeks of graduation! So especially if I have an orientation period where I'm learning software etc, I think an early June start would be okay. I also have quite a bit of vacation time from clinics saved up and plan to use them in the few weeks before graduation, so I will still be getting a break

@Minnerbelle could you clarify about not needing a DEA to practice - what does that look like in the context of if I need access to controlled mediations before getting my own license?

Just make sure that your boss is on board with you not actually acting as a doctor until your license comes through ahead of time. It’ll be all sorts of awkward if they had appts scheduled for you and expected you to see them. Once you have your license, get your own malpractice insurance (have your employer reimburse you) and know for sure it’s in effect before actually working as a doctor.

You’ll want to get your own DEA license since it’s a huge pain in the ass otherwise, but you can start practicing before it comes through. In MA you’ll need your license, before you can apply for and get the state controlled substance registration, before you can apply for your DEA license. So it’s a bit of a pain and takes a while.

See the following link:

Delving into DEA regulations for veterinary practices

Should every veterinarian in your practice that handles controlled substances register with the Drug Enforcement Administration? Is anyone exempt? What are the rules for relief DVMs? Get advice on these and other DEA regulatory issues.

www.dvm360.com

Here’s the dry version:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-21/chapter-II/part-1301/subject-group-ECFRa5bd18e3d01cd02/section-1301.22

You can administer controlled drugs that are registered under another vet in-house and dispense from hospital stock as long as the DEA registrant is okay with it. But you cannot rx out any controlled substances or even authorize any refills to an outside pharmacy without it. As much as they’re not supposed to do so, the pharmacies often require DEA numbers to fill non-controlled drugs. I guess you can yell at them and ask to speak to a manager and keep escalating until they dispense these non controlled drugs for you, but that does get old real fast. It makes you feel real small when you have to tell a client they have to wait until another doctor can write an rx for you… so the sooner you can get your own DEA license the better. But you don’t need it per se before you start your job.

So practically, what does that mean? It kinda depends on your boss and their risk tolerance since it’s their DEA license on the line. Some don’t care much at all and give free reign aside from scripting out. When I was mentoring new grads in my practice before their DEA license came in, for any cases that needed controlled substances under my DEA license, I essentially acted as another doctor on the case. I put my hands on that patient and consulted on it for indication and checked all doses, etc… before signing off on it or writing an rx.

 

[orangecat2018]

Just make sure that your boss is on board with you not actually acting as a doctor until your license comes through ahead of time. It’ll be all sorts of awkward if they had appts scheduled for you and expected you to see them. Once you have your license, get your own malpractice insurance (have your employer reimburse you) and know for sure it’s in effect before actually working as a doctor.

Thank you SO much for this response - this all makes perfect sense. I am really not sure why schools don't go over this information with us beforehand, so I really appreciate you taking the time to spell it out for me!!