To 4yr or 5yr at Edinburgh...that is the question

[flyhi]

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So, many of you know my saga already, but for those that don't.....here's the story that started short and ended up long...sorry.

Because of me being a serious non-trad and my career, i decided at the last minute last year to apply to vet school (but i've wanted to be a vet since i was 5, just never got there) and missed all US deadlines. So, i applied and got accepted to SGU. Then, Hopefulvet21 notified us all that Edinburgh opened up late apps in the spring, so i applied there as well. i initially got accepted into the 5 yr program and was torn between SGU and Edinburgh at the time. Looking back, i cannot believe i went through that torment because the decision is so obvious to me today. 🙄 Because we all were accepted so late to a school so far away, it was frantic. I could not get my dogs there in time (again, older and no other options) and the school offered me a deferral based on that AND the fact that i could get into the 4yr program if i took physics and biochem (and got B or better).

Realize, that i've been out of college since 1995 (this is important) and i took physics (more a of non-science major's course) and got an A. I am finishing biochem now (again, more of an introductory course) and take the final (worth 60%) this week. Should do fine, but i've had to teach myself basically.
After all of this, I have recently been questioning whether i should just do the 5 yr program anyways . Here are my concerns/the facts and i would like y'all to weigh in.

Below are the reasons I feel as though the 5yr could be a good idea:

1. I have been out of school for eons. This means that:

a. I am seriously out of the full-time student mode and worried not only about this adjustment, but it being in an extremely rigorous program - one of which i have no measuring stick.
b. My pre-reqs are 14 years old....yep, that's right...and some info is not only outdated, but i just don't remember it 😱 This was evident when i studied for the GRE. It was a lot of re-learning info prior to studying the info.

2. I would have all of the information taught to me, rather than it being assumed i know it, or having to teach it to myself.

3. My goal, as of today, is to apply for an internship and i feel as though i may be giving myself a better shot of doing well by taking a little more time.

4. Speaking of time, as a non-citizen, i can only work 20 hrs per week legally in Scotland. The 5 year program may allow me to work some during the year (very nominally), in order to balance out the fact i cannot work full time on breaks. I will be living in Scotland full time for the duration of the program.

5. This is my career. Perhaps i will actually learn the information better by taking the extra year, thus having a better foundation in the long run.

6. I have next to zero recent clinical experience. I think an extra year may give me the ability to really concentrate on my EMS (extra mural studies req'd by UK vet schools) and do some other externships or electives in order to make sure i know what i want to practice by the time i get out.


Reasons to do the 4yr:

1. Obvious - it is 4yrs instead of 5 - allowing me to get into the workforce as quickly as possible.

2. It is one year less tuition - yes, this is a biggie. However, if i do not do as well in this program and do not get an internship, the $$ saved may not actually be a 'savings' in the long run. this would certainly hold true if i had to repeat a year 😱

3. Most N. Americans are in the 4 yr. I would probably fit in better with this group initially than a bunch of REALLY young UK'ers. I would spend two years in the 5yr program before integrating with the mostly N. American group in my 3rd year. That's not to say i would not hopefully still socialize with these peeps anyways.


I just read back my post and it definitely seems as though i am swayed towards the 5 year. Some of this, i am fairly certain, stems simply from the unknown with regard to a new country and being back in a very rigorous environment with the uncertainty if you can really 'do it'.
That's all i have. I look forward to your comments and advice. Very curious to hear what other non-trads who have been out of school for a little while and are now in vet school have to say.

thanks!

 

[HopefulAg]

It would be better to do the 5 year, owe an extra $33,000, and possibly be bored at the pace, than do the 4 year, feel swamped, and possibly fail out.

 

[flyhi]

It would be better to do the 5 year, owe an extra $33,000, and possibly be bored at the pace, than do the 4 year, feel swamped, and possibly fail out.

a one sentence remark to ALL of that? 😀 Jk. It's really more than just tuition, right? I figure it's going to be close to a 80k decision. 50k for tuition/cost of living and 30k salary at internship (more if i don't do an internship). Not pennies, for sure. In any event, i agree with your reasoning. thanks.

 

[cowgirla]

I think if you do the four year, you'll regret it

Why?

Because from what I've heard, Edinburgh is AWESOME and you won't want to leave 🙂 Might as well have an extra year there before you go back to the real world!

 

[HopefulAg]

a one sentence remark to ALL of that? 😀 Jk. It's really more than just tuition, right? I figure it's going to be close to a 80k decision. 50k for tuition/cost of living and 30k salary at internship (more if i don't do an internship). Not pennies, for sure. In any event, i agree with your reasoning. thanks.

Well I read it all but only felt need for one sentence. The $33,000 extra dollars was the only downside I saw to staying an extra year, other than another year gone but eh, an extra year in Scotland probably isn't a real big loss.

 

[jpeterman13]

1. I have been out of school for eons. This means that:

a. I am seriously out of the full-time student mode and worried not only about this adjustment, but it being in an extremely rigorous program - one of which i have no measuring stick.
b. My pre-reqs are 14 years old....yep, that's right...and some info is not only outdated, but i just don't remember it 😱 This was evident when i studied for the GRE. It was a lot of re-learning info prior to studying the info.

2. I would have all of the information taught to me, rather than it being assumed i know it, or having to teach it to myself.

Well I think that these are the most important items out of all of the ones that you have listed. So yea, I think that in the long run, the 5 year would work out in your advantage. You don't want to do the 4 year and then have a ton of trouble. But if you think that you can handle the 4, then go for it. It's definitely an important decision. good luck

 

[dottoressa]

Either way, it's going to be challenging. It sounds that psychologically, you would be more comfortable with the slightly de-compressed course. Having confidence is a big deal - even if it means a little more $$, it will be $$ well spent. If you have the opportunity to work while you're in the 5 year program, even better. You will appreciate the opportunity to break up the routine and possibly gain some really interesting experiences outside of vet school. Plus, it may help to offset the additional tuition a bit.
Good luck in your decision, and congrats on your acceptances! 🙂

 

[lazyjayn]

You also have to remember- just because most of the NA students will be in the 4 year program, doesn't mean *all* the international students will be, it'll also force you to meet people outside your class/ school, which could be good and help you relax.
The extra year/ extra money thing isn't really that big a deal, in the long run. Getting the refresher on things that you might have forgotten and having time to be a student in the UK, with all that implies- pub nights, weekend trips, actually enjoying yourself, rather than being rushed, and not being able to do that stuff because you aren't fully comfortable with the background info you need, and have to spend all your time studying. School is more than just studying, and if you're just going to spend all your time in the library, why go overseas at all?

rather disjointedly
-j.

 

[Ben and Me]

Why don't you call/email and ask to speak to either one of the deans or assistant head for student life (or whatever they call it over there 🙂 ) - Bascially the person who deals with current students on a day to day basis.

You are surely not the only non-trad who has been in this position, and they'll be able to tell you what has worked for folks in the past.

 

[Caninerepro]

I already called Flyhi and talked to her. Trust me, this is a really common fear for ALL entering first years. Who am I to be going in with all these rock star people, when I am such a "loser" myself. 😱 It is called the impostor syndrome, and they gave us a speech about it first week of class. In a nutshell, the ad coms know what they are doing, better than you or I will ever realize, and they really do not make mistakes on people -- it is way too expensive for them to lose a student after what they have invested in us, even by just sending out a letter of acceptance. True, almost no one gets a 4.0 (or a 3.0 even) in vet school every semester. But that does not matter, and NO ONE cares. Once you are in vet school all that is demanded is that you keep above a 2.0 cum, and they will do everything they can to help you/get you to that level. Also, ask the vets you work with if anyone has ever asked them what their GPA was in vet school -- I doubt even in a job interview it has ever come up. Some schools don't even give out A-F grades, it is all S-N. Yes vet school is going to be the hardest thing you have ever done, yes give up any illusions of a life for four years. Quite a few of my classmates don't even bother with cable TV. But if you were accepted, you will survive it, and you WILL become a veterinarian. I believe the average is 93% of an entering class graduates -- the other 7% usually either got in and discovered vet med was not what they wanted to do, or had some other major life altering change that precluded going through with it. Worst case scenario: it happened to two members of my class last year. You fail a class and roll back to the next incoming class -- no big deal and you are guaranteed a seat that does not count in the incoming class admissions count. Or you get pregnant and decide to take the year off instead of struggling through as others might. Again, a seat will be waiting for you next year. You get the picture. 😉 So, all of you will be fine, even if it IS scary as hell. Go for it -- bravely peoples!😎

 

[shortnsweet]

I already called Flyhi and talked to her. Trust me, this is a really common fear for ALL entering first years. Who am I to be going in with all these rock star people, when I am such a "loser" myself. 😱 It is called the impostor syndrome, and they gave us a speech about it first week of class. In a nutshell, the ad coms know what they are doing, better than you or I will ever realize, and they really do not make mistakes on people -- it is way too expensive for them to lose a student after what they have invested in us, even by just sending out a letter of acceptance. True, almost no one gets a 4.0 (or a 3.0 even) in vet school every semester. But that does not matter, and NO ONE cares. Once you are in vet school all that is demanded is that you keep above a 2.0 cum, and they will do everything they can to help you/get you to that level. Also, ask the vets you work with if anyone has ever asked them what their GPA was in vet school -- I doubt even in a job interview it has ever come up. Some schools don't even give out A-F grades, it is all S-N. Yes vet school is going to be the hardest thing you have ever done, yes give up any illusions of a life for four years. Quite a few of my classmates don't even bother with cable TV. But if you were accepted, you will survive it, and you WILL become a veterinarian. I believe the average is 93% of an entering class graduates -- the other 7% usually either got in and discovered vet med was not what they wanted to do, or had some other major life altering change that precluded going through with it. Worst case scenario: it happened to two members of my class last year. You fail a class and roll back to the next incoming class -- no big deal and you are guaranteed a seat that does not count in the incoming class admissions count. Or you get pregnant and decide to take the year off instead of struggling through as others might. Again, a seat will be waiting for you next year. You get the picture. 😉 So, all of you will be fine, even if it IS scary as hell. Go for it -- bravely peoples!😎

The thing you have to be careful with about saying that caninerepro is that the UK system is VERY different from what you are used to in the US schools. On top of adjusting to a new country and culture, you have a completely different testing system, and the veterinary school demands.

Of the 120 people starting at Glasgow for the class of 2013 (year above me), about 30-40 people did not pass(one or more) their professional exams the first time around, and many times it was American students, because the testing scheme is just so different here. About 5 people joined my class as a result, but some just didn't come back. We have the Christmas term exams right now, and these are our first, and sometimes only, grades in classes before the 85% Professional exams in May. Each class exam is anywhere from 7-15% of your total grade...so basically, the professional exams are what count. This is for Glasgow, so Edinburgh might be a little bit different, but it is still not the same as the US.

A 70% is a A. Now you may think that is amazing and how could you ever get anything below an A, but they just grade everything so much harder, and until this year, everything was negatively marked (like the GREs/SATs)...so you could end up with a negative grade. It takes some adjustment wrapping your head around the idea of what you thought was a C is now an A, but it is harder to get!

You also have to be careful in saying that it is expensive to lose students, because again, in the UK it is different. If you are a UK resident, you don't pay for school. It doesn't make a difference to them if they fail out or not because they get paid by the government, and the international students. And if you fail a year more than once, which has happened, or fail 2nd year, retake it then pass, and then fail 3rd year, then retake it then pass..the cost for international study starts to add up.

flyhi, you've asked me how I like Scotland/Glasgow before, so the advice I give you now is additive to that. For me at least, and I am a trad student, the 5 year program, in my opinion, has been majorly helpful in just allowing myself to get settled into Scotland living, plus veterinary school and the new testing system. As others have said above, it looks like you are leaning towards the 5 year, and those are such valid reasons. I don't know about Edinburgh's whole system, but from what I understand the UK in general just takes some getting used to. I forget who said it above, but I would take the advice to call the dean of students over in Edinburgh and see if she can talk to you about it, or connect you to current/previous Edinburgh students who have been through similar situations. And as always, feel free to PM and vent!

 

[flyhi]

CR - thanks for the pep talk, it did make me feel better. I still equate this to having played in the NFL (so you know you have what it takes), retiring for 10 years and then have the NFL call you back to play. Yes, this means they know you can do it, but you are still going to be a step behind since you are 1. older 2. have been out of it for so long and not using those skills and 3. you are now playing against guys 10 years younger than you! Thanks for the chat, i truly appreciated it.

Short- i am glad you weighed in here considering you are over there and I have heard it is SO different. i know we chatted about life in the UK and the schools in general, but i never asked you about the curriculum and what you thought. I do know our 70% is an A, but have heard the same thing - don't think it's easy to get. I have also heard that our exams are few and far between and each count for a large proportion of your grade. Lot's of writing involved too.

To all - i have reached out for the school and am starting with asking for the real difference in the two programs - curriculum and credit-wise. I will speak with the Dean of Instruction (i think that is it) to try and get some sound advice on my situation, given my background. I do feel as though the 5 year would give me some peace of mind with settling into a new culture and a new life. I'd love to hear more from those overseas, whether you are currently in a 4 or 5 yr program and how you feel about it now that you are there. It's good to see that those in 5 yr programs are not necessarily bored and wishing they were in a 4yr.

thanks All!