To SDN "Pharmacists" & "Pharmacy Students"...

[Electrode]

...stop trying to discourage the (SDN) pre-pharmers from pursuing their professional dreams as a pharmacist, if you have been doing so in the past.


Every time you do that, it is exactly that much of a time that a fool looks much more better & wiser than you are, in the eyes of those with more "job-war" experiences than you are yet to accumulate.


Need I remind you that just because you are having difficulty landing a job does not mean that the student graduating 5 years after you did will have the same level of difficulty...?

The chances are that you lack one or two factors that the newer graduate may possess -- chances are that you have a weaker "network connection" than the newer grad have-- chances are that you have a neglible interest in working at location A, whereas the new grad is overly ready to start at that same location...same day -- chances are that there are 1001 other reasons why the newer graduate (a current pre-pharmer perhaps), is inclined with a much more potential to be a far more better pharmacist than you will ever be; inclusive of common initiative & economy.


And to (SDN) pre-pharmers:

Equip yourselves with (psychological) protective vests from those discouraging posts simply by getting the real/first-hand facts yourself. Never rely on SDN posts to accomplish that -- you are likely to fumble faster than you can say a hello. Don't get me wrong: do you have what it takes to differentiate the informative posts from complicated trolls?

Conduct all necessary researches -- suspend your laziness & leisures for a period of time and gather some volunteer or shadowing experiences. It can't be emphasized well enough how important those experiences will aid your career-decision faculty.

That way, you'll possess a set level of confidence with respect to whether pharmacy may or may not be right for you. Because you can still land a much envied position with excellent pay & benefits..and still be far from being satisfied with the profession itself. You don't have to be 100% satisfied with it...but the higher the %, the likely you are to make a happy living out of it and perhaps, retire honorably from it....with little to no regrets.

As a matter of fact, it will also reduce the chances of you coming back to SDN 6-7 years later to add your own troll to the pitiful database of that of your predecessors'. [/end $0.02]



PS: Propelled grenade flamethrowers welcomed

Warning: Propelled grenade fire extinguishers on stand-by

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[Praziquantel86]

It's not a matter of discouraging students from pursuing their dreams, it's ensuring that students make an informed decision about their future. If people are attempting to get into pharmacy school for the right reasons - love of the field, desire to serve the profession, intellectual satisfaction, etc. - then by all means, go for it. It's the students who believe the gravy train is still rolling towards a $120,000 paycheck with little to no effort who we're trying to discourage.

Pharmacy is still a great profession for those willing to do the work to make it great. If we scare away students who want to make a quick easy buck, then great. I don't want those people as my colleagues and frankly, you shouldn't either.

As an addendum to all the "pre-pharmers": stop asking for the easiest school, the bare minimum necessary, the easy way. You're doing a disservice to yourself and to the profession you say you love so much. Do the best you can and things will most likely fall into place. If it doesn't, keep trying. If that doesn't work, then sorry, maybe this isn't for you. Not everyone is above average.

I apologize if I come across as a jerk, but I'm speaking my mind. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, but if I am, then that's just a shame.

 

[chemguy79]

It's not a matter of discouraging students from pursuing their dreams, it's ensuring that students make an informed decision about their future. If people are attempting to get into pharmacy school for the right reasons - love of the field, desire to serve the profession, intellectual satisfaction, etc. - then by all means, go for it. It's the students who believe the gravy train is still rolling towards a $120,000 paycheck with little to no effort who we're trying to discourage.

Pharmacy is still a great profession for those willing to do the work to make it great. If we scare away students who want to make a quick easy buck, then great. I don't want those people as my colleagues and frankly, you shouldn't either.

As an addendum to all the "pre-pharmers": stop asking for the easiest school, the bare minimum necessary, the easy way. You're doing a disservice to yourself and to the profession you say you love so much. Do the best you can and things will most likely fall into place. If it doesn't, keep trying. If that doesn't work, then sorry, maybe this isn't for you. Not everyone is above average.

I apologize if I come across as a jerk, but I'm speaking my mind. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, but if I am, then that's just a shame.

I agree with a majority of the comments that you posted. It's disappointing to read about fellow pre-pharmers who are trying to "weasel" their way into pharmacy school by performing the bare minimum to get by. Regardless of your intentions to be the best gosh darn pharmacist in the world, you may not have the chops for pharmacy school. EVERYONE thinks that they're above average, but it's far from the truth. It's not for me to judge someone's qualifications, it is the ad coms around the country. Frankly, it seems as if the "judging" via ad coms has become extremely lax. Furthermore, for those who are out for a quick buck, I hope that their experience in pharmacy school changes them so they can actually enjoy the profession and career versus the security that the career may, or may not, provide given the economy, technological advances, etc.

However, one thing that I do take issue with is the fact that most people (pharmacists and pharmacy students) come on the board to castigate prospective pre-pharm students for less than stellar intentions. I bolded the section above because most pharmacists and pharmacy students seem to forget that that there are quite a few people who love the profession. Most people who come onto the board to "help" pre-pharmers act and assume that EVERYONE is out for a quick buck. This is most assuredly not the case and some thought should be given towards those students.

 

[VCU07]

It is not about discouraging students, but they do need to know where the profession is and where is could possibly be when they graduate. Pre-pharms need to understand that pharmacy isn't what it was when I applied. The tide has turned. This is not to say that it won't turn back, but reality/forcast needs to be an contributing factor in choosing a career. I find it funny when students say I truly want to be a pharmacist when they haven't worked a day in any pharmacy setting! This comes from hearsay of what the profession is about. Some posts have been out of line, but I do agree with one of the above posters that they need to know what they are getting themselves into.

 

[owlegrad]

Most people who come onto the board to "help" pre-pharmers act and assume that EVERYONE is out for a quick buck. This is most assuredly not the case and some thought should be given towards those students.

Who considers at least two years undergrad and 4 years professional school "a quick buck"? It is completely false that any prepharmer is out for a quick buck. What a ridiculous thing for anyone to say.

Some, like myself, are attracted to the relatively high paycheck - I will be by far the highest earner in my family. If pharmacy was not a high paying field, I would be doing something else, plain and simple. But that doesn't mean I don't care about pharmacy or my patients. I don't understand the tend to villianize people who want to make good money. If "you" aren't in it for the money, will you please send me the "extra" leftover from your paychecks?


It is annoying to read "bare minimum" type questions, I agree.

 

[owlegrad]

It is not about discouraging students, but they do need to know where the profession is and where is could possibly be when they graduate. Pre-pharms need to understand that pharmacy isn't what it was when I applied. The tide has turned. This is not to say that it won't turn back, but reality/forcast needs to be an contributing factor in choosing a career. I find it funny when students say I truly want to be a pharmacist when they haven't worked a day in any pharmacy setting! This comes from hearsay of what the profession is about. Some posts have been out of line, but I do agree with one of the above posters that they need to know what they are getting themselves into.

If only that was how it was always presented, we could all get along.

 

[chemguy79]

Who considers at least two years undergrad and 4 years professional school "a quick buck"? It is completely false that any prepharmer is out for a quick buck. What a ridiculous thing for anyone to say.

Some, like myself, are attracted to the relatively high paycheck - I will be by far the highest earner in my family. If pharmacy was not a high paying field, I would be doing something else, plain and simple. But that doesn't mean I don't care about pharmacy or my patients. I don't understand the tend to villianize people who want to make good money. If "you" aren't in it for the money, will you please send me the "extra" leftover from your paychecks?


It is annoying to read "bare minimum" type questions, I agree.

Check yourself, firstly.

Second of all, MANY people on the board (pharmacy students and pharmacists) have made that statement regarding pre-pharm students. I was merely re-stating said fact. It is NOT my opinion.

Before getting "bent out of shape" about a section of a post, reflect about what you're saying. I am in agreement with your statements, so your level of commentary is somewhat unnecessary.

 

[owlegrad]

Check yourself, firstly.

Second of all, MANY people on the board (pharmacy students and pharmacists) have made that statement regarding pre-pharm students. I was merely re-stating said fact. It is NOT my opinion.

Before getting "bent out of shape" about a section of a post, reflect about what you're saying. I am in agreement with your statements, so your level of commentary is somewhat unnecessary.

Was it not clear I was agreeing with you? Darn, sorry. I even put the you in paraenthases to make sure you knew I wasn't directing that at you, I thought I was doing good making sure it was clear that I was agreeing with you. I probably should have just started my post with, "I agree". Oh well.

"Check yourself."

 

[BrightLight]

For anyone who still want to pursue pharmacy, I recommend that you read this book first:

 

[confettiflyer]

lol we're just being realistic

i like how a pre-pharm is schooling pharmacists & pharm students on rotation how it really is like...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I think some realism is great. I'm just sick of the doom and gloom trolls.

 

[delano2000]

I think some realism is great. I'm just sick of the doom and gloom trolls.

 

[ValeRx]

Blah blah, whine whine


PS: Propelled grenade flamethrowers welcomed

Warning: Propelled grenade fire extinguishers on stand-by

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Firstly, you're a PRE-PHARMACY student. You are hardly in a position to tell pharmacists (Who are in the real world) and pharmacy students (who are just about there) how to act or what advice to give. Your profile says you're an inpatient tech. You are inside a hospital day in and day out and have no idea what the job market looks like. Try doing a search for pharmacy intern positions in your area and see how many you get. Most likely little to none. Now take those search results and when/if you get into pharmacy school, get your intern license and start looking for those jobs you will understand what we are talking about. As a tech, your job options are much more broad because companies/hospitals don't have you pay you as much as an intern.

Intern jobs are much harder to come by and pharmacist jobs are even fewer. Are there still a lot out there? Yes. Point being, you don't know jack **** about anything. You're a pre-pharmacy kid who doesn't like to hear the facts about the profession you want to go in. Keep the advice to all us "pharmacists and pharmacy students" to yourself. In 5 years or when/if you graduate pharmacy school you can talk.

 

[Filler]

Firstly, you're a PRE-PHARMACY student. You are hardly in a position to tell pharmacists (Who are in the real world) and pharmacy students (who are just about there) how to act or what advice to give. Your profile says you're an inpatient tech. You are inside a hospital day in and day out and have no idea what the job market looks like. Try doing a search for pharmacy intern positions in your area and see how many you get. Most likely little to none. Now take those search results and when/if you get into pharmacy school, get your intern license and start looking for those jobs you will understand what we are talking about. As a tech, your job options are much more broad because companies/hospitals don't have you pay you as much as an intern.

Intern jobs are much harder to come by and pharmacist jobs are even fewer. Are there still a lot out there? Yes. Point being, you don't know jack **** about anything. You're a pre-pharmacy kid who doesn't like to hear the facts about the profession you want to go in. Keep the advice to all us "pharmacists and pharmacy students" to yourself. In 5 years or when/if you graduate pharmacy school you can talk.

Agree

To the OP: It's nice to be optimistic and gung-ho about your future, but in your case you are escaping reality. In the real world, when you start seeing 20 of your classmates competing for 2-4 intern positions (and that's not even including kids from the other nearby pharm schools)...it's somewhat sobering.

 

[VCU07]

I think some realism is great. I'm just sick of the doom and gloom trolls.

The doom and gloom has been around for many years, well before I went to pharm. school. Unfortunately, some of it seems to be coming true. Perhaps this is d/t the current state of the economy, but nevertheless, pharmacists are having their hours cut, there are fewer jobs, and even in the hospital setting we are now having to prove our worth so they don't cut additional staff. The reality is there and students/pharmacists can deny it, but it is happening. Hopefully, we turn the corner once the economy starts getting better, but even then, it will never be what it once was. I just suggest pre-pharms talk to a number of pharmacist in different settings before making a final career decision.

 

[Xaq]

Firstly, you're a PRE-PHARMACY student. You are hardly in a position to tell pharmacists (Who are in the real world) and pharmacy students (who are just about there) how to act or what advice to give. Your profile says you're an inpatient tech. You are inside a hospital day in and day out and have no idea what the job market looks like. Try doing a search for pharmacy intern positions in your area and see how many you get. Most likely little to none. Now take those search results and when/if you get into pharmacy school, get your intern license and start looking for those jobs you will understand what we are talking about. As a tech, your job options are much more broad because companies/hospitals don't have you pay you as much as an intern.

Intern jobs are much harder to come by and pharmacist jobs are even fewer. Are there still a lot out there? Yes. Point being, you don't know jack **** about anything. You're a pre-pharmacy kid who doesn't like to hear the facts about the profession you want to go in. Keep the advice to all us "pharmacists and pharmacy students" to yourself. In 5 years or when/if you graduate pharmacy school you can talk.

Is there any profession where it is easy to get a job as an Intern? Unless your network is good, I'd say its pretty much the same for everyone.

 

[confettiflyer]

Is there any profession where it is easy to get a job as an Intern? Unless your network is good, I'd say its pretty much the same for everyone.

True, but there are few jobs where an intern position & subsequent hours are required for licensure in that profession*

*depends on state licensure laws, most require hours, few do not. Check local listings.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Dear people that actually have to live the reality of the impending surplus,

Please let the wide-eyed bushy-tailed youngins' live a blissful life with our heads in the sand.

Signed,

Pre-pharmacy student.

 

[KARM12]

Need I remind you that just because you are having difficulty landing a job does not mean that the student graduating 5 years after you did will have the same level of difficulty...?

The chances are that you lack one or two factors that the newer graduate may possess -- chances are that you have a weaker "network connection" than the newer grad have-- chances are that you have a neglible interest in working at location A, whereas the new grad is overly ready to start at that same location...same day -- chances are that there are 1001 other reasons why the newer graduate (a current pre-pharmer perhaps), is inclined with a much more potential to be a far more better pharmacist than you will ever be; inclusive of common initiative & economy.

No one knows what the job market will be like in 5 yrs. When I graduated in 2008, I had my pick of hospital and retail jobs..with a sign on bonus. It isn't like that anymore and I think back then, no one predicted it would have gotten this bad this quickly. It is important for pre-pharm students to know where the job market is now and where it can potentially go in the future.

Your arguments above do not make much sense and are very weak. As a new grad, you have a limited network because you have limited experience. Gaining experience is what increases your network as you become more involved in the profession. How is your network stronger than mine?

Many people are geographically limited both new grads and current pharmacists. Having a family and a significant other working a stable job does not make it easy to pick up and move some place random.

Being a new grad does not mean you have more potential. That is just stupid. I think everyone has the same potential, it is all in what you choose to do with it.

You've already got a chip on your shoulder and that will not bode well for you in the future.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The doom and gloom has been around for many years, well before I went to pharm. school. Unfortunately, some of it seems to be coming true. Perhaps this is d/t the current state of the economy, but nevertheless, pharmacists are having their hours cut, there are fewer jobs, and even in the hospital setting we are now having to prove our worth so they don't cut additional staff. The reality is there and students/pharmacists can deny it, but it is happening. Hopefully, we turn the corner once the economy starts getting better, but even then, it will never be what it once was. I just suggest pre-pharms talk to a number of pharmacist in different settings before making a final career decision.

I don't see *anyone* denying the reality of the job market. But I see a lot of people trolling on SDN lately with crap like this:

"Don't go into pharmacy. There are NO jobs. You will get paid $40/hour to be a clerk/trained monkey. I mean... *I* am the God of Pharmacy and I had 10001 job offers but it's because I'm awesome. I will walk out of school and into ANY clinical job and be better than anyone at it! But *you* lowly prepharmacy students dont know anything and will borrow ONE MILLION DOLLARS to become pharmacists and have to work at McDonald's or sell your body on the street for crack. Go into business instead! That's easy money! Or become flight attendant or Victoria's Secret model. Or just lay on the beach every day. Pharmacy sucks!"
​

That's what I'm tired of. The hyperbole, the misuse of statistics and the hubris. Realism is fine. That other stuff is not.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I don't see *anyone* denying the reality of the job market. But I see a lot of people trolling on SDN lately with crap like this:

"Don't go into pharmacy. There are NO jobs. You will get paid $40/hour to be a clerk/trained monkey. I mean... *I* am the God of Pharmacy and I had 10001 job offers but it's because I'm awesome. I will walk out of school and into ANY clinical job and be better than anyone at it! But *you* lowly prepharmacy students dont know anything and will borrow ONE MILLION DOLLARS to become pharmacists and have to work at McDonald's or sell your body on the street for crack. Go into business instead! That's easy money! Or become flight attendant or Victoria's Secret model. Or just lay on the beach every day. Pharmacy sucks!"
​

That's what I'm tired of. The hyperbole, the misuse of statistics and the hubris. Realism is fine. That other stuff is not.

The icon does not properly portray the awesomeness of this post.

 

[Electrode]

Firstly, you're a PRE-PHARMACY student. You are hardly in a position to tell pharmacists (Who are in the real world) and pharmacy students (who are just about there) how to act or what advice to give. Your profile says you're an inpatient tech. You are inside a hospital day in and day out and have no idea what the job market looks like. Try doing a search for pharmacy intern positions in your area and see how many you get. Most likely little to none. Now take those search results and when/if you get into pharmacy school, get your intern license and start looking for those jobs you will understand what we are talking about. As a tech, your job options are much more broad because companies/hospitals don't have you pay you as much as an intern.

Intern jobs are much harder to come by and pharmacist jobs are even fewer. Are there still a lot out there? Yes. Point being, you don't know jack **** about anything. You're a pre-pharmacy kid who doesn't like to hear the facts about the profession you want to go in. Keep the advice to all us "pharmacists and pharmacy students" to yourself. In 5 years or when/if you graduate pharmacy school you can talk.

As much offensive as your response sounds, I could hardly take any because I find it more hilarious.

1) The first funny thing was how you emphasized that I was a "pre-pharmacy student"....and yet you saw my profile say that I am an inpatient tech. I am going to place a bet that Pharmacy school (if you're actually in one), was the tunnel that introduced you into anything major about pharmacy.

2) "Pharmacists (Who are in the real world)" - and the techs that work with them are in Jupiter. You don't think the techs headed that direction know what's going on with the profession? I'd like to double the above bet now.

3) "A pre-pharmacy kid who doesn't like to hear the facts about the profession you want to go in." lol -- What other fact(s) about the profession is there to hear again? Is it the countless interns that vainly frequent our setting each month for a position? ... Or well qualified pharmacists that I see their applications being tossed into our pretty shredder right in front of me every other month? That pharmacy jobs are getting harder to come by? Are those the facts you're talking about?

And you're among the pharmacy kids that think it is okay for someone to jump on SDN & start singing that no one else should enter the field....on the basis that jobs are very competitive to come by? Take some cold shower my friend, you need it.


Every profession witnesses some level competition when it comes to finding a job. Some professions have a higher level of the rotten nut than others. Instead of focusing on enhancing one's competitive skills, trying to talk potential competitors into backing-off only makes the person look stupid. And that was the basis of my original post.


And I notice a lot of posters saying that it is not discouragement: it is what it is. Maybe you are all right. Naturally, the fact of having higher number of competitors is a discouragement on its own. It may also be true that you may have had the intention of informing the pre-pharmers how rough it is out there...but don't you think the way a lot of you have been going about it is just flat-out wrong? There are smarter ways to go about it--doom & gloom posts are just not it--they're not something that role model "pharmacists" & "pharmacy students" indulge in.

 

[Electrode]

Your arguments above do not make much sense and are very weak. As a new grad, you have a limited network because you have limited experience. Gaining experience is what increases your network as you become more involved in the profession. How is your network stronger than mine?

Does that apply to a new grad that was initially a tech for a considerable amount of time at various pharmacy settings?

 

[ValeRx]

As much offensive as your response sounds, I could hardly take any because I find it more hilarious.

1) The first funny thing was how you emphasized that I was a "pre-pharmacy student"....and yet you saw my profile say that I am an inpatient tech. I am going to place a bet that Pharmacy school (if you're actually in one), was the tunnel that introduced you into anything major about pharmacy.

2) "Pharmacists (Who are in the real world)" - and the techs that work with them are in Jupiter. You don't think the techs headed that direction know what's going on with the profession? I'd like to double the above bet now.

3) "A pre-pharmacy kid who doesn't like to hear the facts about the profession you want to go in." lol -- What other fact(s) about the profession is there to hear again? Is it the countless interns that vainly frequent our setting each month for a position? ... Or well qualified pharmacists that I see their applications being tossed into our pretty shredder right in front of me every other month? That pharmacy jobs are getting harder to come by? Are those the facts you're talking about?

And you're among the pharmacy kids that think it is okay for someone to jump on SDN & start singing that no one else should enter the field....on the basis that jobs are very competitive to come by? Take some cold shower my friend, you need it.


Every profession witnesses some level competition when it comes to finding a job. Some professions have a higher level of the rotten nut than others. Instead of focusing on enhancing one's competitive skills, trying to talk potential competitors into backing-off only makes the person look stupid. And that was the basis of my original post.


And I notice a lot of posters saying that it is not discouragement: it is what it is. Maybe you are all right. Naturally, the fact of having higher number of competitors is a discouragement on its own. It may also be true that you may have had the intention of informing the pre-pharmers how rough it is out there...but don't you think the way a lot of you have been going about it is just flat-out wrong? There are smarter ways to go about it--doom & gloom posts are just not it--they're not something that role model "pharmacists" & "pharmacy students" indulge in.

1. Your profile says inpatient tech and your status is "Pre-Pharmacy," so what's the issue? Status of "Pre-Pharmacy" leads me to believe you are currently in college full-time pursuing the pre-requisites to get into pharmacy school. So is there a discrepancy there? I volunteered in an inpatient pharmacy before I got into pharmacy school and didn't get a job in retail until after I had been accepted... and you're right, I'm not ACTUALLY in pharmacy school I'm just a poser. I'm sure that your extensive experience in the inpatient pharmacy delivering unit doses has made you the expert on the opportunities in pharmacy.

2. How many job postings and offerings do you see for technicians compared to pharmacists/interns? 20:1 most of the time. Check any job offering website. Besides, if you're trying to go to pharmacy school why are you worried about technicians?

3. Yes, those are the things I'm talking about which, consequently, are the things are you were bitching about "pharmacists and pharmacy students" being very blunt about.

Your rant is about how you don't want to hear it straight, the way it needs to be told. You want your hand held and you want to be coddled.... well guess what? The reality is out there and we aren't going to sugar coat it for you. Deal with it or quit - simple choice.

 

[Praziquantel86]

As much offensive as your response sounds, I could hardly take any because I find it more hilarious.

1) The first funny thing was how you emphasized that I was a "pre-pharmacy student"....and yet you saw my profile say that I am an inpatient tech. I am going to place a bet that Pharmacy school (if you're actually in one), was the tunnel that introduced you into anything major about pharmacy.

So are you both? They're not mutually exclusive, you know.

2) "Pharmacists (Who are in the real world)" - and the techs that work with them are in Jupiter. You don't think the techs headed that direction know what's going on with the profession? I'd like to double the above bet now.

I really have no idea what you're talking about the Jupiter comment. No, I don't think techs know what's going on with the profession of pharmacy - they don't have any reason to. A few who are headed to pharmacy school, or intend to, may have an idea of what is going on the profession of pharmacy. The vast majority of career technicians have no clue.

3) "A pre-pharmacy kid who doesn't like to hear the facts about the profession you want to go in." lol -- What other fact(s) about the profession is there to hear again? Is it the countless interns that vainly frequent our setting each month for a position? ... Or well qualified pharmacists that I see their applications being tossed into our pretty shredder right in front of me every other month? That pharmacy jobs are getting harder to come by? Are those the facts you're talking about?

So are you agreeing that the market is worse than it has been in almost two decades? That's the point that everyone has been trying to make. The profession isn't what it was 20 years ago, nor is the job market. There, that's it.

And you're among the pharmacy kids that think it is okay for someone to jump on SDN & start singing that no one else should enter the field....on the basis that jobs are very competitive to come by? Take some cold shower my friend, you need it.


Every profession witnesses some level competition when it comes to finding a job. Some professions have a higher level of the rotten nut than others. Instead of focusing on enhancing one's competitive skills, trying to talk potential competitors into backing-off only makes the person look stupid. And that was the basis of my original post.

Today's pre-pharmacy students are not my competition. They'll be, at most, a P3 by the time I'm done with a PGY-2. The same holds true for everyone who you are rallying against. We're simply informing people of the reality of the market, not scaring off competition. I agree that hyperbole has no place here - but mixed in with a little bit of hyperbole is a lot of truth.

And I notice a lot of posters saying that it is not discouragement: it is what it is. Maybe you are all right. Naturally, the fact of having higher number of competitors is a discouragement on its own. It may also be true that you may have had the intention of informing the pre-pharmers how rough it is out there...but don't you think the way a lot of you have been going about it is just flat-out wrong? There are smarter ways to go about it--doom & gloom posts are just not it--they're not something that role model "pharmacists" & "pharmacy students" indulge in.

I'll indulge in whatever I want to indulge in, thank you very much. Who are you to stamp in here and try to tell us otherwise?

 

[Electrode]

1. Your profile says inpatient tech and your status is "Pre-Pharmacy," so what's the issue? Status of "Pre-Pharmacy" leads me to believe you are currently in college full-time pursuing the pre-requisites to get into pharmacy school. So is there a discrepancy there? I volunteered in an inpatient pharmacy before I got into pharmacy school and didn't get a job in retail until after I had been accepted... and you're right, I'm not ACTUALLY in pharmacy school I'm just a poser. I'm sure that your extensive experience in the inpatient pharmacy delivering unit doses has made you the expert on the opportunities in pharmacy.

Ceteris paribus, as the economists would say; if I applied the same place you (a pharmacist) work at in 5 years as a new grad(myself), you will by then have 2-3 years of experience more than I do, under the same title - but it will only be a probability that it actually is an advantage you have over me. (Note the underlined)

2. How many job postings and offerings do you see for technicians compared to pharmacists/interns? 20:1 most of the time. Check any job offering website. Besides, if you're trying to go to pharmacy school why are you worried about technicians?

Just dicing you in that there are pre-pharmacy kids that are techs that knows a good chunk of what you already may know, and some of what you are yet to know.

3. Yes, those are the things I'm talking about which, consequently, are the things are you were bitching about "pharmacists and pharmacy students" being very blunt about.

"Don't go into pharmacy. There are NO jobs." << You call that being "very blunt"..? I'll pretend that I misinterpreted you here

Your rant is about how you don't want to hear it straight, the way it needs to be told. You want your hand held and you want to be coddled.... well guess what? The reality is out there and we aren't going to sugar coat it for you. Deal with it or quit - simple choice.

Ah common lol...you won't coddle my head & feed me sugar? -- Not nice.. -- My foot.

 

[KARM12]

Does that apply to a new grad that was initially a tech for a considerable amount of time at various pharmacy settings?

Yes because being a technician and being a pharmacist are two different things. Most new grads have been technicians/interns while they are in school. A pharmacist who has been working for a few yrs has probably done more networking than a new grad. We have so many technicians that come and go, I can't keep them straight.

 

[KARM12]

:troll:

 

[Electrode]

So are you both? They're not mutually exclusive, you know.

"Mutually exclusive" - interesting. Tell me, is it possible that one can find something offensive & yet funny at the same time? If so, pardon my rudeness for not making it obvious that I don't have that ability.

I really have no idea what you're talking about the Jupiter comment. No, I don't think techs know what's going on with the profession of pharmacy - they don't have any reason to. A few who are headed to pharmacy school, or intend to, may have an idea of what is going on the profession of pharmacy. The vast majority of career technicians have no clue.

A bit slow with the Jupiter thing huh? Leave it to the quick graspers--it's okay, I don't mind
And techs that have close communication ties to the pharmacists that they work with will know what I'm talking about

So are you agreeing that the market is worse than it has been in almost two decades? That's the point that everyone has been trying to make. The profession isn't what it was 20 years ago, nor is the job market. There, that's it.

Common, 20 years is too far. Shouldn't it be more like 5-7 years ago? I've never disagreed with that point. And the point itself is not the problem here, it is how people have been relating it. By the way, which profession isn't in the same current bad job trend as pharmacy?
What other profession do you suggest one to dive into and expect a job right after graduation, without having to compete for it...assuming medicine is a ruled out option for the person?

Today's pre-pharmacy students are not my competition. They'll be, at most, a P3 by the time I'm done with a PGY-2. The same holds true for everyone who you are rallying against. We're simply informing people of the reality of the market, not scaring off competition. I agree that hyperbole has no place here - but mixed in with a little bit of hyperbole is a lot of truth.

PGY -- that is your bragging ground? ...and yet you claim to know so much of a reality you are yet to meet in its entirety

I'll indulge in whatever I want to indulge in, thank you very much. Who are you to stamp in here and try to tell us otherwise?

"Common initiative isn't so common", so they say. Consider this a candid donation

 

[Electrode]

Yes because being a technician and being a pharmacist are two different things. Most new grads have been technicians/interns while they are in school. A pharmacist who has been working for a few yrs has probably done more networking than a new grad. We have so many technicians that come and go, I can't keep them straight.

Then I & my colleagues must be very lucky indeed.

:troll:

Not nice....

 

[owlegrad]

Yes because being a technician and being a pharmacist are two different things. Most new grads have been technicians/interns while they are in school. A pharmacist who has been working for a few yrs has probably done more networking than a new grad. We have so many technicians that come and go, I can't keep them straight.

Can't argue with that, but I just wanted to throw in another perspective. Someone who is a tech before going to pharmacy school is going to have worked with several pharmacist and the ones that want to be pharmacists hopefully have developed good connections with several of them. Contrast to the pharmacy student who only knows their preceptors and you have quite a gap.

Of course neither student compares to a pharmacist with say 5 years experience, but I find it odd that several posters in this thread are discounting tech experience so heavily. Good techs will have good connections and be well informed on issues facing the pharmacy profession, IMO. I am surprised that some posters seem to disagree.

 

[lauradiddle]

Can't argue with that, but I just wanted to throw in another perspective. Someone who is a tech before going to pharmacy school is going to have worked with several pharmacist and the ones that want to be pharmacists hopefully have developed good connections with several of them. Contrast to the pharmacy student who only knows their preceptors and you have quite a gap.

Of course neither student compares to a pharmacist with say 5 years experience, but I find it odd that several posters in this thread are discounting tech experience so heavily. Good techs will have good connections and be well informed on issues facing the pharmacy profession, IMO. I am surprised that some posters seem to disagree.

 

[VCU07]

Look, everyone needs to shut the H up. Like they say, opinions are like aholes, we all have them, but they usually stink. If prepharms want to continue in pharm, then let them. They will either suffer the consequences or gloat in success. We cant even get pharmacists and students on the same page. How the hell are we to advance this profession?

 

[VeraShield]

Wait... people are actually making career choices based on anonymous posts on an internet forum?

 

[KLand86]

Finally a POSITIVE post on this forum! I only read the original post and skipped over everyone's replies because I knew they would be filled with negativity and anger. I am not going into this profession for the money, I am going into it because I like it, and because this is my second career so I KNOW I want to do it for other reasons. Pharmacists act like they are they only ones in the healthcare field with an over-saturation problem. Well guess what, they are not. It is healthcare in general that is over-saturated but does this stop me from doing it? No. I know that it will be an uphill battle to go thru school and I know I will have to work HARD to find a job at the end, that is how EVERY other profession is, and just because 5 years ago when the economy was excellent it was a different story doesn't mean that the profession as a whole is screwed. It is constantly an up and down cycle, and although it may be down right now it will not be like this forever.

Now go ahead...reply to my post and comment about how "naive" I am being, (I won't read them anyway, I don't need the negativity) but I am going into this profession because I am working as a tech now and I love the field, don't just assume everyone is doing it for all the wrong reasons. Life is too short.

 

[Praziquantel86]

"Mutually exclusive" - interesting. Tell me, is it possible that one can find something offensive & yet funny at the same time? If so, pardon my rudeness for not making it obvious that I don't have that ability.

Yes, it is possible. However, your phrasing was so poor as to prevent me from having any idea what you were talking about. Might want to work on that.

A bit slow with the Jupiter thing huh? Leave it to the quick graspers--it's okay, I don't mind

Again, your phrasing was terrible. It didn't appear that you were actually quoting anything that had been said, plus it made no sense even if somebody had. I'm still not sure what you were getting at...guess I'm just slow.

And techs that have close communication ties to the pharmacists that they work with will know what I'm talking about

No, they really don't, truth be told. Perhaps if that tech were an intern graduating from school, or working with a pharmacist looking for a job they would. Otherwise no, they don't. A tech works in one insulated job at one location in one setting among pharmacists who are not looking to find their first place of employment. If that winky face implies that you are that tech with "close communication", find out how many hospital positions are open to new graduates in Chicagoland. It might be surprising.

Common, 20 years is too far. Shouldn't it be more like 5-7 years ago? I've never disagreed with that point. And the point itself is not the problem here, it is how people have been relating it. By the way, which profession isn't in the same current bad job trend as pharmacy?
What other profession do you suggest one to dive into and expect a job right after graduation, without having to compete for it...assuming medicine is a ruled out option for the person?

I mentioned 20 years because that was the last time (give or take a few years) that the pharmacist market was this way. So, roughly speaking, the market has not been this bad for graduating pharmacists at any point during their lives. I think that's worth mentioning.

Honestly, there are not many careers in which you can find a job immediately after graduating - I'm not debating that. However, that's a new feeling for pharmacists and it is disconcerting. Not many other career pathways require a similar amount of loan debt and training - that's the problem. By the way, certain fields in medicine are similar right now. The markets for nuclear medicine and pathology are pretty damn awful as well.

PGY -- that is your bragging ground? ...and yet you claim to know so much of a reality you are yet to meet in its entirety

Fine, change that to P2s when I'm done with my PGY-1 if you'd like. The point is the same. I don't claim to know everything - just a lot more than you do.

I know what the residency market looks like, and I know what the market for fresh graduates looks like. I can't speak for everywhere in the country, but Buffalo is awful. There is not a single hospital in the area that plans on hiring during this cycle. This is not hyperbole, this is fact.

"Common initiative isn't so common", so they say. Consider this a candid donation

Again, phrasing. Work on it.

 

[KARM12]

Can't argue with that, but I just wanted to throw in another perspective. Someone who is a tech before going to pharmacy school is going to have worked with several pharmacist and the ones that want to be pharmacists hopefully have developed good connections with several of them. Contrast to the pharmacy student who only knows their preceptors and you have quite a gap.

Of course neither student compares to a pharmacist with say 5 years experience, but I find it odd that several posters in this thread are discounting tech experience so heavily. Good techs will have good connections and be well informed on issues facing the pharmacy profession, IMO. I am surprised that some posters seem to disagree.

No one is discounting the importance of working as a tech/intern as a pre-pharm and during pharm school. I think every student should do this. However, the point I was making is that tech/intern experience is not the same as actual pharmacist experience.

 

[owlegrad]

No one is discounting the importance of working as a tech/intern as a pre-pharm and during pharm school. I think every student should do this. However, the point I was making is that tech/intern experience is not the same as actual pharmacist experience.

Did anyone say that it was?

The overall impression I got from some posts (not necessarily yours, I would have to go back and reread it) is that some people think that techs (most relevantly, techs that are pre-pharmacy with lots of experience) have basically very little insight into the profession of pharmacy. I couldn't disagree more. How much more exposure could a prepharmer hope to get?

 

[Praziquantel86]

Did anyone say that it was?

The overall impression I got from some posts (not necessarily yours, I would have to go back and reread it) is that some people think that techs (most relevantly, techs that are pre-pharmacy with lots of experience) have basically very little insight into the profession of pharmacy. I couldn't disagree more. How much more exposure could a prepharmer hope to get?

I don't think that exposure necessarily leads to insight. A technician is exposed to the same location in the same field day after day. A technician working at a retail chain will have little to no idea of what goes on in a hospital; likewise, hospital technicians have little to no idea what is going on in a retail location.

A dedicated pre-pharm student may be able to find this information out, but until they're in the field (i.e., an intern), it really doesn't happen. I felt that the OP was specifically discussing non pre-pharmacy technicians, which is where my comments came from.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I don't think that exposure necessarily leads to insight. A technician is exposed to the same location in the same field day after day. A technician working at a retail chain will have little to no idea of what goes on in a hospital; likewise, hospital technicians have little to no idea what is going on in a retail location.

A dedicated pre-pharm student may be able to find this information out, but until they're in the field (i.e., an intern), it really doesn't happen. I felt that the OP was specifically discussing non pre-pharmacy technicians, which is where my comments came from.

Wouldn't this line of thinking apply to pharmacists as well? Not disagreeing with you, but whether a tech or a pharmacist, anyone who works long term in a single location isn't going to have the some exposure to the issues facing pharmacy as someone who is, say, actively looking for a new position or on rotations visiting lots of different pharmacy settings. The way to gain insight into what's happening in pharmacy otherwise is to discuss it with colleagues in other locations, settings, etc., no? I would think that even a career tech could do this just as well as a pharmacist, but connections made in pharmacy school would likely make it easier. A pre-pharmer really has even more incentive to familiarize themselves with the field than anyone, though. I sure didn't bet 6 figures worth of debt on pharmacy without learning everything I could about it first.

 

[Carboxide]

Did anyone say that it was?

The overall impression I got from some posts (not necessarily yours, I would have to go back and reread it) is that some people think that techs (most relevantly, techs that are pre-pharmacy with lots of experience) have basically very little insight into the profession of pharmacy. I couldn't disagree more. How much more exposure could a prepharmer hope to get?

Electrode said that s/he as a tech knows more than some pharmacy students do now.

Just dicing you in that there are pre-pharmacy kids that are techs that knows a good chunk of what you already may know, and some of what you are yet to know.

I don't believe that for ONE SECOND. Do you know something? Sure. But I'd love to see you come back after one semester of pharmacy school and tell me you didn't learn a thing. You have no idea what you don't know.

 

[TonyRx]

To Pre-Pharmers:

I hate doom and gloom mentality myself, and I wouldn't discourage anyone from pursuing pharmacy school.

But, my only "words of wisdom" for you all is....be ready to work your butt off and be engaged in a very competitive job market. Be prepared to go above and beyond in school, rotations and job sites. Network your butt off and make yourself known. Try to obtain a second degree (i.e. Masters level degree). Lastly, don't rule out residencies and specialization (which will be competitive to get into too).

We all will have jobs in some capacity, with relatively high pay, but the days of signing bonuses, 5 job offers in P4 year, "guaranteed" 120k retail jobs, and so forth are over...and have been for a while. The field is drastically changing and every professor or recent grad I've personally talked to since being in pharmacy school has warned me of this. As a employee of Walgreens for past 6 years, I've personally witnessed the retail decline. Which is why I am going to pursue a Masters while in pharmacy school and I am looking into Informatics as a possible route of specialization.

Best of luck to all whom are pursuing this profession, and be ready to work very hard and do everything in your power to separate yourself from the "pack." Don't let the nay-sayers get to you, but make sure you approach your future career path with a plan. You will be accruing a lot of debt while in school and you need to be smart, realistic and rational with your decisions in order to set yourself apart and secure a job that will enable you to pay your loans off and live a decent life.

 

[owlegrad]

Electrode said that s/he as a tech knows more than some pharmacy students do now.



I don't believe that for ONE SECOND. Do you know something? Sure. But I'd love to see you come back after one semester of pharmacy school and tell me you didn't learn a thing. You have no idea what you don't know.

I have absolutely no doubt that she knows more about pharmacy than some of my classmates. More than a pharmacist? Of course not, that's ridiculous. But a pharmacy student who has never worked in a pharmacy vs a tech that is trying to get into pharmacy school? The tech has so much more experience than the pharmacy student. The only exposure to pharmacy that the student has is IPPE, which doesn't compare to actually having a job at all, IMO.

Do you really think techs don't know more than someone who has never worked in a pharmacy? I am trying to understand this point of view, but I just don't get it. I guess it goes pharmacist>intern>tech? I think that is a fair statement most of the time, but there are plenty of well informed techs that I bet know more than some P1-2s. There is nothing magical about being a pharmacy student that automatically gives you more insight into the field than a tech.

 

[Carboxide]

I have absolutely no doubt that she knows more about pharmacy than some of my classmates. More than a pharmacist? Of course not, that's ridiculous. But a pharmacy student who has never worked in a pharmacy vs a tech that is trying to get into pharmacy school? The tech has so much more experience than the pharmacy student. The only exposure to pharmacy that the student has is IPPE, which doesn't compare to actually having a job at all, IMO.

Do you really think techs don't know more than someone who has never worked in a pharmacy? I am trying to understand this point of view, but I just don't get it. I guess it goes pharmacist>intern>tech? I think that is a fair statement most of the time, but there are plenty of well informed techs that I bet know more than some P1-2s. There is nothing magical about being a pharmacy student that automatically gives you more insight into the field than a tech.

A pharmacy student who has never worked in a pharmacy STILL knows more about med chem, pharmacology, treatment choices, dosing, and pharmaceutical sciences than any tech. When I'm at work, I ask techs for help all the time - but I'm asking them how to bill an insurance, how do they usually do this certain type of Rx, what's this stand for. I do NOT ask them "What's the best choice of OTC antihistamine for a pregnant woman?" They don't know that stuff. And the fact that Electrode thinks s/he knows more about that stuff than pharmacy students do shows just how much s/he has to learn.

 

[owlegrad]

A pharmacy student who has never worked in a pharmacy STILL knows more about med chem, pharmacology, treatment choices, dosing, and pharmaceutical sciences than any tech. When I'm at work, I ask techs for help all the time - but I'm asking them how to bill an insurance, how do they usually do this certain type of Rx, what's this stand for. I do NOT ask them "What's the best choice of OTC antihistamine for a pregnant woman?" They don't know that stuff. And the fact that Electrode thinks s/he knows more about that stuff than pharmacy students do shows just how much s/he has to learn.

Um, I think this thread was talking about insight into the pharmacy market, not pharmaceutical knowledge. Perhaps I misunderstood and that's why I was confused.

 

[Carboxide]

Um, I think this thread was talking about insight into the pharmacy market, not pharmaceutical knowledge. Perhaps I misunderstood and that's why I was confused.

Well the thread is, but I was under the impression that line was about general knowledge. I'm sure techs know some about the job market. I think we're agreeing.

 

[Pojman]

Pharmacy is still a great profession for those willing to do the work to make it great. If we scare away students who want to make a quick easy buck, then great. I don't want those people as my colleagues and frankly, you shouldn't either.

I spent 10 years as a big box retail manager. I spent 60 hours a week working in the trenches and competing for 50 cent raises. After 10 years of back breaking labor, and extreme politics/posturing, I have had enough! After all of that, all I could bring home to my family was 55,000 per year.

I can proudly say that I am one of those people that you are so frankly stating that you do not want as a colleague. I have decided that I want a job that will pay me the most money, for the least amount of effort as possible and I really do not care what you think.

I have a 3.9GPA in sciences, 10 years of solid work history, and now experience in a pharmacy. You can bet your bottom dollar that in about 5 years from now I will be your colleague, and your just going to have to deal with it.

I am sick and darn tired of all these "you gotta follow your dream types". I am sorry, but not all of us out here have the financial means to "follow our dreams" and are simply trying to figure out the best way to provide for our families.

I have decided that financial stability for my family is more important than to "follow my dreams".

And by the way - If I got to "follow my dreams" I would have been a long haul truck driver... But my wife will not allow that.

 

[KARM12]

I have decided that I want a job that will pay me the most money, for the least amount of effort as possible and I really do not care what you think.

I have decided that financial stability for my family is more important that to "follow my dreams".

I think the point is that pharmacy no longer guarantees financial stability because the job market is unpredictable.

Also the days of getting a paycheck for having a license and breathing are over. Being a pharmacist doesn't require physical labor, but it can be pretty stressful. You'll be busting your butt just to increase script count a little bit and dealing corporate crap in retail. Hospital pharmacy is full of politics. Academia is full of posturing.

Pharmacy is not an easy fix. If you don't want to work, they can easily find someone to replace you.

 

[owlegrad]

And by the way - If I got to "follow my dreams" I would have been a long haul truck driver... But my wife will not allow that.

Are you aware that truck driving is a long running joke on this board? This may be intentionally more hilerious than you realize.

Other than the combative tone, I like the rest of your post as well.

 

[Pojman]

I think the point is that pharmacy no longer guarantees financial stability because the job market is unpredictable.

Also the days of getting a paycheck for having a license and breathing are over. Being a pharmacist doesn't require physical labor, but it can be pretty stressful. You'll be busting your butt just to increase script count a little bit and dealing corporate crap in retail. Hospital pharmacy is full of politics. Academia is full of posturing.

Pharmacy is not an easy fix. If you don't want to work, they can easily find someone to replace you.

Bah! Before I quit to go back to school I was a district manager for the retail business that I worked for. Actually I still work for them, but just part time now.

We have pharmacies on site at each store. I know all of the pharmacists, and I am well acquainted with the expectations that are placed on them.

I will be an automatic hire once I graduate (they are paying for about 30% of my education), and I will have close to 20 years of tenure with them.. And for those of you who are old enough to know what tenure is - It means that I get more benefits.

Cant fool me there, I know the difference between what is expected of a professional vs. a grunt. Not to mention, which is more disposable.