somewhat random question... is it true that your white coats dont have your names on them lol
Toledo MSBS 2019-2020
- Thread starter postmeliodas
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deleted964264
The MSBS peeps or the M1s?
The M1s! At their white coat ceremony it didn’t look like their coats had names on them lol
(genuinely couldn’t matter less to me lmao I’m in no position to be applying to med school anytime soon either way this is purely out of curiosity, didn’t want to make it come off as being arrogant or anything
)
(genuinely couldn’t matter less to me lmao I’m in no position to be applying to med school anytime soon either way this is purely out of curiosity, didn’t want to make it come off as being arrogant or anything
)
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deleted978967
Yeah, I have absolutely no idea, nor do I care. I interacted with med students all year long and can't remember at all if white coats were embroidered with names.... but I think they were??? Maybe it takes them awhile to get stuff embroidered after white coat ceremony (no sense in embroidering anything until you know who is going to matriculate and that everyone has the right size coat)., but again, things I couldn't care less about.The M1s! At their white coat ceremony it didn’t look like their coats had names on them lol
(genuinely couldn’t matter less to me lmao I’m in no position to be applying to med school anytime soon either way this is purely out of curiosity, didn’t want to make it come off as being arrogant or anything
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deleted964264
potentially stupid question, but the question about the M1's reminded me-- did you guys ever get the stats for your year's MSBS --> UTCOM matriculation in terms of how many of you ended up getting accepted/waitlisted/rejected? idek if you guys would have access to that info now that FERPA's a thing but just curious
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deleted978967
Still working on it.... well, im not... Im on a beach sipping a rum and coke... but we have a team on it. I apologize for not having the stats out earlier, but we decided to "expand" the project and give stats not only from our year, but for previous years as well. The whole furpa thing is making it difficult to obtain data, but we have our ways. Worse case senerio we will have it done in August (since some M1 is going to give a little presentation during orientation to you guys). I'm hoping to have things done and published in the next few weeks. I super promise I'll post some stats on here when they are done.
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deleted964264
this is a *really* stupid question and i dont even know how to properly ask it without sounding like a tool so im just gonna ask it-- a number of alumni in the program have stated (and i think Miracle_Max has too) stated that the year that they were in the program was one of, if not the hardest, year of their life. Could you clarify why? From what I can tell, you guys take one-two classes at a time (in comparison to other SMPs that take 4-5 classes/sem?) aside from research (which I admit would take up a lot of ur time, no denying that). But if most of you guys didnt restudy for the mcat, where else was ur time going? Or were the classes just that plain difficult?
I guess what Im asking is, what made this year harder than your junior or senior year of college, if you were a science major/pre-med who was doing research/volunteering/shadowing etc. on top of STEM coursework. Really hope i didn't come off as an dingus here lol, just was hoping to get a better idea.
I guess what Im asking is, what made this year harder than your junior or senior year of college, if you were a science major/pre-med who was doing research/volunteering/shadowing etc. on top of STEM coursework. Really hope i didn't come off as an dingus here lol, just was hoping to get a better idea.
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deleted978967
No this is a legit question and one I had before the program started as well. There are a few factors that all combine into making MSBS a very hard year (for me it wasn't the hardest year of my life, but it was definitely in the top 5).
Looking at the class list before the program started I was thinking, "Wow Miracle Max, this looks chill af, I need to get a part time job. MAybe the king will take me back as a part time miracle man" But the classes are deceptive. With the exception of biostats and maybe Anatomy (which is its own beast), the classes pack a ton of various topics into them and really are just tons of different classes wrapped up into single classes: Pharmacology, diseases, genetics, biochem, cell bio, pathophisiology, histology, etc, etc. Basically, the classes are certainly rigorous, and the material you have to learn is pretty broad. Plus you are studying for these classes on top of doing ~10hrs of research a week (but for some students this was closer to 20+). On top of this, most students were involved in various extracurriculars: Volunteering, shadowing, etc etc. Quite a few of us did manage to pull in extra income through SUPER part time jobs. It all adds up to being busy. (Some of us even managed to keep our significant others, and one guy even has a wife and 2 kids). I exercised like once a month...
But the busyness is only part of what makes this a hard year. Many of us had to travel and interview at med schools, thus adding on more busyness. But probably most of us didn't have any outside interviews and basically ended up having all our eggs in the UTCOM basket. The stress of not knowing where you will be next year really builds. Even for those of us who were fortunate enough to have gotten into other schools early, the tress of not knowing where we will be still builds.
So yeah, classes are hard, but not really all that harder than doing a suicide class-load in undergrad (for me that was ochem+labs, microbio, calc, calc-based-physics, genetics, TA-ing, doing research, and volunteering at the hospital). It's really the stress and uncertainty on top of lots of busyness that really makes the MSBS year hard.
Hope that makes sense, but if it doesn't let me know. I'm busy day-drinking at the moment since I'm on vacation so I have no idea how coherent that was.
I had another question-- do you know off the top of your head how many people apply // how many people get offered a spot in MSBS? (trying to plan when to apply for the 20-21 year, but im prob not gonna get an mcat score back till feb '20 and not sure if that'll be uncompetitive :/
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deleted978967
I actually know next to nothing about MSBS admissions. I probably know more about getting into UTCOM than MSBS. What I do know is that they send out WAY more acceptances than who actually shows up, so the odds are in your favor to get accepted. The can take up to 60 (my class had 31 to start), so my guess is they will send out at least 100 acceptances (but this is pure alcohol influenced guessing). I know many from my class applied in March/april when the realized they weren't going to get into med school. Definitely do what you can to focus on getting a good MCAT score. Who knows, score well enough maybe you can skip MSBS!
I remember I applied like in Sep-Oct after not getting any med school interviews right away and freaking out and applying to SMPs all over the country (ended up getting interviews later, but got stuck on wait lists). I maaaaay have sent anapplications to a few Caribbean med schools just to feel good about myself. I tend to waste money when im stressed out.
Also, kind of long term thinking, but as a current undergrad, I have little-no experience evaluating a match list lol (and I neither plan nor want to go to like a top 20 school or anything like that); i know Toledo regularly matches a lot of students in non-primary care fields (
) but I also saw that a lot of residents stay in the general OH area. I was wondering if you had any idea about a specialty you were leaning twds and also if you had plans to stay long term in OH.
Understandably, this isn’t something you have to consider for a solid 2-3 years but just wondering if you had any thoughts
) but I also saw that a lot of residents stay in the general OH area. I was wondering if you had any idea about a specialty you were leaning twds and also if you had plans to stay long term in OH. Understandably, this isn’t something you have to consider for a solid 2-3 years but just wondering if you had any thoughts
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deleted978967
Also, kind of long term thinking, but as a current undergrad, I have little-no experience evaluating a match list lol (and I neither plan nor want to go to like a top 20 school or anything like that); i know Toledo regularly matches a lot of students in non-primary care fields (
Understandably, this isn’t something you have to consider for a solid 2-3 years but just wondering if you had any thoughts
I'm leaning towards specialty surgical, either Ortho, ENT, or Optho (recently ruled out Uro), but that will mostly depend on how my boards turn out. I plan on applying everywhere I can afford. With specialty surgical, that is where you start seeing students matching to anywhere under the sun, wheras FM, IM, ER, OBGYN, Gen Surg, (accounts for the majority of the class) do statistically match closer to where people did med school at. Personally I have no plans either way about where I will be after residency. By then the zombie apocalypse will most likely be upon us, but at least my student debt will be wiped out.
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deleted978967
DEATH FIRST!
Hey @Miracle_Max, long-time lurker here that’s been following this thread for a while; finally decided to make an account so I could ask some qs too-
I was just wondering what the selling points of this particular program were? I know you mentioned that you thought this program offered you the best chance of matriculating to the MD school (congrats btw!) but I was wondering if you thought there were any other strong points of this program? I imagine you’d have more insight on this having completed the program than other fellow students of mine who have just gotten accepted.
Hope you’re enjoying vacation!
I was just wondering what the selling points of this particular program were? I know you mentioned that you thought this program offered you the best chance of matriculating to the MD school (congrats btw!) but I was wondering if you thought there were any other strong points of this program? I imagine you’d have more insight on this having completed the program than other fellow students of mine who have just gotten accepted.
Hope you’re enjoying vacation!
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deleted978967
Hi there!
So any time I talk to people about SMPs I always say that you need to pick the program that best fills your weaknesses and has good matriculation rates. So for me the major selling points of Toledo's SMP were:
- It's only 1 year long (well, more like 10 months). I don't got time to do a 2 year program.
- You get a degree. I ended up applying to teach (and got a job offer) at community colleges (in one of those freak out moments when I didn't know if I would get into med school) and a masters degree opens up more opportunities than does a non-degree post-bac.
- It opened another state for me that had many schools I could get in-state tuition as a med student. Was also looking at SMPs in a few other states that did this, but Ohio is a good state to get that in-state tuition in.
- It has a guaranteed med school interview. Many programs have this though.
- It has a legacy of success. Very consistently 60%+ of MSBS students matriculate at UTCOM, and over 80% matriculate somewhere straight out of MSBS. Those are odds I can live with and this, possibly more than anything else was the clincher for me after evaluating all other factors. My class will keep the same rates (if not a bit better).
- You are not competing against your classmates for a set number of spots in the medical school. They were very up front with us that they could take the entire MSBS class if they wanted to (and in the past have come really close to taking the entire class). They have the room (and to this day are still accepting people off waitlists).
- They recruit a pretty diverse class. I'm quite possibly the most bland / non-diverse person in the class, but I do much better when I'm around people with completely different backgrounds than my own, and I felt that they did an overall good job putting together a pretty diverse class.
- The classes were separate from med students. This was actually important to me. I don't thrive in competition. I just want to go in and do my best and not have to compare myself to others. There are other really great SMPs around that have you take classes side-by-side with med students, and you are compared to them. Wasn't for me, but is a big deal for others.
- The same PhDs and MDs that lecture in the med school give the same lectures to the MSBS program, and overall the curriculum is super rigorous. By the end of MSBS, you will know if you gonna make it in Med School. I had a low cGPA from undergrad, so I needed pretty rigorous medical academics to convince AdComs that I don't suck.
- Research is a large component of the program, and another area I was fairly weak in. This is where we start to see a lot of divergence from Toledo to other SMPs. Some SMPs will do MCAT prep (which I didn't want), some will even get you CPR and BLS certified (I figured whats the point since i'm hopefully going off to med school anyways), but Toledo gets you REAL research experience. Many of us got sent (all expenses paid) to various conferences around the country to present our research and network. And research experience, and pubs in particular, are freaking GOLD to AdComs. Every single medical school interview (except for Toledo) I went to asked me about my research. And if I want to do a competitive residency, I'm gonna need some research. I plan to continue on with my lab through med school and crank out them pubs.
- Full cadaver dissection in anatomy. None of that sheep heart/brain BS. Many students also stayed on in the cadaver lab to help prepare professional quality plastination specimens. Another crazy cool opportunity.
- Free coffee.
- Really good volunteer opportunities in the teaching hospital right were we take classes and outpatient clinics. This was also a big deal for me as I got to know many physicians and various people on staff. This helped me line up shadowing opportunities.
- Good cost-of-living. Comparing Toledo to Chicago, Philly, or even Cinci, it's significant.
- Close enough to a few big cities that I can do anything, but far enough away to not get distracted.
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That helps a lot thanks so much! I had one last question: you mentioned somewhere that most MSBSers apply during their MSBS year— if (one of the) point of the MSBS is to raise ur GPA, how are students even decently competitive for medical school at the time of entering MSBS? I might be missing something here but at least speaking from personal exp, if I entered MSBS this aug, id be entering with ~3.3 cGPA and a 512 mcat
In other words how are you guys applying to med schools during MSBS if the only grades/resume stuff you have are from pre-MSBS years?
Thanks again!
In other words how are you guys applying to med schools during MSBS if the only grades/resume stuff you have are from pre-MSBS years?
Thanks again!
usctrojans24
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@Miracle_Max Since the program is now almost over how of your class got into Toledo and or other schools? Could you breakdown also how big your class size was? Will you be attending Toledo SOM
Would you still take this program over other "True SMPs" like Gtown or EVMS
Would you still take this program over other "True SMPs" like Gtown or EVMS
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deleted978967
Good question: So, in my opinion, the purpose of any SMP is not necessarily to RAISE your GPA, but to ADDRESS undergrad GPA. If the SMP offers a legit masters degree, it will in no way raise your undergrad GPA, and will go into AMCAS as a separate graduate GPA. But, as you mentioned, you won't even have a transcript for the SMP available until late December once you finish your first semester/quarter, so too late to put into your primary AMCAS application until the following cycle anyways. Doing an SMP tells AdComs that "hey, look! I promise I actually don't suck as a student despite what my undergrad GPA says, and this program shows how serious I am".
So SMP's definitely make you competitive at the school where they are at, (otherwise no one would go to that SMP), but they do actually make you overall a little more competitive in the med school application cycle while you are enrolled in your SMP. Obvi they make you much more competitive in the subsequent cycle after SMP graduation, but if you can sneak in immediately right after you graduate from the SMP, might as well! So you have to apply while in the SMP (or more likely even before you start it).
So, if you mention (or list) the SMP program you are doing on your primary AMCAS application (which some people in my class did) or heavily mention it in secondaries (what I did), schools that don't have a hard numbers cutoff may see that, and want to interview you. I applied to 10 MD schools and 5 DO schools, and got 3 MD interview invites (including Toledo) and withdrew all my DO applications the second I got accepted to a DO school (which was really early on in the cycle, so technically only 1 DO interview). Every interview I went to asked me about the MSBS program (except for Toledo) and my research (part of the MSBS program). The schools I interviewed at ether did traditional interviews, or modified MMI's that can ask personalized questions at certain stations.
That said, probably no more than half the class had outside interviews. I got multiple MD acceptances, and the one DO acceptance this last cycle, where as for multiple cycles before, the best I ever did was slowly die on waitlists.
I had a 3.2 undergrad cGPA and a 508 mcat. The only thing different about my app this last cycle was I HEAVILY mentioned in my secondaries the MSBS program I was doing. Or maybe I just finally got lucky.
But yeah, other than that, you have to wait until the cycle after the SMP to reap the full benefits of adding your SMP transcripts into AMCAS.
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deleted978967
I will provide full stats once I get back from vacation and talk with the team that is crunching the numbers.
Off the top of my head though, I started with a class of 31, and 29 graduated (I think). only 28 interviewed at medical schools (including UTCOM). (1 guy wanted to use the MSBS program to get him into PhD school).
Last I heard (which is entirely out of date), 18 of the 28 that interviewed had been accepted at UTCOM, and at least 5 that were not accepted to UTCOM (probably more, but again I don't know the up to date stats) have outside acceptances. So, we are looking at a >60% acceptance rate at UTCOM (keeps within historical trends) and >80% of my class will be starting med school in a month (or have already started). Historically, within I think 2 years of graduating from the MSBS, Med school matriculation rates are in the high 90s %, but we won't know the overall rate of med school acceptance from my class for maybe another 2 cycles (I assume most people give up 2 failed cycles after MSBS, but what do I know).
You have to be careful when comparing SMPs to eachother, because the "success rate" they will give you will often be the overall acceptance rate of graduated students (could be years after completing the SMP), and not the immediate matriculation rate. For me, I was really only interested in the immediate matriculation rate of SMPs, which was sometimes really hard to get from some of the schools I looked into (and some schools straight up never gave me that info).
I don't really know what technically makes an SMP a "true SMP". I just assumed any masters program that is designed to funnel you into a med school was classified as an SMP, but I don't honestly know if there is a better definition.
I personally would choose just about anything over Gtown. I couldn't care less about the clout or "name brand" of a school (though im quite sure having Gtown on your transcript is a much bigger boost than having Toledo on there). Plus I would not do well living in DC and frankly can't afford it. But that's just me. I can certainly understand the appeal of going to a SMP at a big name school, it's just not for me. If you really want to go to med school at GTown, then doing well in their SMP would certainly give you a better chance compared to doing an SMP at Toledo or some other random place. Since I don't know anything about GTown's SMP, I can't really compared it to Toledo's. I also did not look into the SMP provided by EVMS, so again, I can't compare it to Toledo. I can say however that for many various reasons, I choose the Toledo MSBS program over the SMPs offered at Drexel, Duke, RosalindFranklin, Colorado State, Case Western, and Tulane (those are the ones I got accepted to besides Toledo) and I am happy with my decision.
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usctrojans24
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Are you going to attend Toledo SOM?
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deleted978967
yes.
^^ God among men right here
but real talk, thank you for your help, really appreciate it. Also, I think UTCOM's orientation is sometime in the next two weeks-- hope you have a great rest of your vacation and soak up as much sun before you hit the books!
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deleted978967
You're welcome! Feel free to reach out if you have any more questions and I'll do my best to help however I can
Hi I realized I had a few more qs lol-
1) did most of you guys have to take out loans to pay for the program? I’m OOS and I genuinely don’t think I can work during the program after reading what u were saying about the workload...
2) do you know if UTCOM plays a role in admissions to the MSBS? Or is it just GV (and/or Anita/anyone else?)
1) did most of you guys have to take out loans to pay for the program? I’m OOS and I genuinely don’t think I can work during the program after reading what u were saying about the workload...
2) do you know if UTCOM plays a role in admissions to the MSBS? Or is it just GV (and/or Anita/anyone else?)
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deleted978967
Yes, and it absolutely sucked. However, keep in mind that even as an out of stater paying double the in-state rate in MSBS, if you matriculate into an Ohio state supported med school, you will be overall taking out less money in loans than if you were able to skip MSBS and matriculate into a private school. I broke it down earlier in this thread:
I actually don't know how MSBS decisions are made. I am however quite confident that UTCOM plays no role in it. I suspect it's just Anita, GV, and a few select PhDs, but again this is speculation based on nothing but the fact that I ate a pancake this morning.
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deleted978967
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I’m hoping to apply to this program in February when my mcat comes in. Will that be too late?
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deleted978967
I think the majority of applications come in during the Jan-March timeframe when it's becoming fairly obvious people won't be getting into Med school. My guess is that March is a good time to apply, but maybe email Ms. Anita Easterly (program coordinator) and just double check. [email protected]
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Thank you! I saw that you mentioned that the usual class size is 60 but you only had 30 in the class. Does that mean there wasn’t enough applicants for them to fill the class seats?
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deleted978967
I must have mispoke. They will seat a class up-to 60. That's all they can handle (probably a limit set by UTCOM as being the max they would be willing to consider taking). Rarely has it ever historically been at 60; usually a little less. Again I don't know all that much about MSBS admissions, but my understanding is that what happens is they send out 100 acceptances (on a rolling basis I think) and historically this fills a class between 40-60. I don't think they send out any more acceptances than that. I don't know how many applications they get from year to year, but for whatever reason for my year out of the 100 acceptances they sent out, only 31 showed up and 29 graduated. From what I've seen of the incoming class, this next year's class will be larger and back into the 40-60 range.
Also as a side note, after 3 days of medical school, man am I glad I did MSBS. Biochem is a beast and I'm chillin
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this made me more than a little happy and slightly emotional lol; congrats on surviving your first half week!! Your internet stranger friends are so proud
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deleted978967
So, unfortunately it looks like I won't be able to provide super in-depth stats breakdown for you guys like I wanted to for various reasons.
Here are a few basic stats from our class that may or may not be helpful. You can make your own conclusions about the numbers.
Average MSBS GPA of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: ~3.8*.
Average undergrad GPA of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: ~3.45*
Average MCAT of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: ~507*
Number of MSBS students who started the program: 31
Number of MSBS students who graduated: 29
Number of MSBS students that interviewed at UTCOM: 28
Number of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: 18
Number of MSBS students that matriculated at a medical school somewhere else: 6 (includes both MD and DO schools, with 2 of us at OSU)
*Self-reported numbers. No way to verify these.
So in general, after running the numbers a million different ways, we came to the conclusion that there were no guarantees with the MSBS program. People that 4.0d the program and had a killer MCAT were waitlisted, and people with low MCATs or low class GPA were admitted into UTCOM. We were unable to find any statistically significant predictor of success (matriculation at UTCOM) for the MSBS program. Though we are pretty confident that performance on the interview and an overall strong well-rounded application are incredibly important in addition to MSBS performance. Im pretty happy that so many of us are currently wearing white coats. There are a few people that I scratch my head about and really can't comprehend why they didn't get in somewhere, but I don't know their apps all that well.
So with that, I wish you all good luck in your future journeys to becoming physicians. I look forward to meeting you all at physician conferences in the distant future, and you can all buy me a beer. In the meanwhile, I am going to retire from SDN for a few years (until applying for residency) and focus on surviving med school. Hopefully the answers I have provided previously in this thread will help you all out if you have questions about the program.
Take care all and never give up!
MM
Here are a few basic stats from our class that may or may not be helpful. You can make your own conclusions about the numbers.
Average MSBS GPA of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: ~3.8*.
Average undergrad GPA of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: ~3.45*
Average MCAT of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: ~507*
Number of MSBS students who started the program: 31
Number of MSBS students who graduated: 29
Number of MSBS students that interviewed at UTCOM: 28
Number of MSBS students that matriculated into UTCOM: 18
Number of MSBS students that matriculated at a medical school somewhere else: 6 (includes both MD and DO schools, with 2 of us at OSU)
*Self-reported numbers. No way to verify these.
So in general, after running the numbers a million different ways, we came to the conclusion that there were no guarantees with the MSBS program. People that 4.0d the program and had a killer MCAT were waitlisted, and people with low MCATs or low class GPA were admitted into UTCOM. We were unable to find any statistically significant predictor of success (matriculation at UTCOM) for the MSBS program. Though we are pretty confident that performance on the interview and an overall strong well-rounded application are incredibly important in addition to MSBS performance. Im pretty happy that so many of us are currently wearing white coats. There are a few people that I scratch my head about and really can't comprehend why they didn't get in somewhere, but I don't know their apps all that well.
So with that, I wish you all good luck in your future journeys to becoming physicians. I look forward to meeting you all at physician conferences in the distant future, and you can all buy me a beer. In the meanwhile, I am going to retire from SDN for a few years (until applying for residency) and focus on surviving med school. Hopefully the answers I have provided previously in this thread will help you all out if you have questions about the program.
Take care all and never give up!
MM
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Hello, I recently got accepted for the MSBS program 2020-2021. Could you private message me? Had some questions to ask about the program and if it is the right one for me.
Hey kingslayer, just wanted to add that @Sophil15 is a current student at Toledo MSBS and that you might want to message him too
congrats on your acceptance!
BKarasik
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Hi! I actually have a question about which medical schools other than Toledo do students typically matriculate into? A lot of other programs list the different medical schools their students get into, but I couldn't find that with Toledo.
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deleted978967
Probably the best place to get the most up-to-date MSBS info is in the current application cycle thread. Toledo MSBS 2020-2021, so definitely pop in there!
The most common outside matriculation sites are other Ohio and Michigan schools, and state schools for people who are from out of state.
So for my class last year, a few went to OSU, and a couple to OU (DO school). LECOM grabs a few of us every year.
In past years I can think of people that went to Wright State (I got accepted here too and many of us interviewed here. One of my interviewers here was a former MSBS grad), again various state schools for those of us that are from out of state (I got into both of my state schools), Michigan, Michigan State, Cen Michigan, Wayne St (a few of my class interviewed here)... basically everywhere in Michigan if you are from Michigan, Pen St., Baylor, Northwestern, Ponce, various DO schools I can't remember the acronyms for, Rosalind/Franklin, Arizona, Medical College Wisconsin, and I am starting to blank on the rest.
Keep in mind that many of us who matriculated here at Toledo also got into other schools, but ultimately chose to stay here.
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I was told by the Dean of the program that my score of a 501 on my MCAT would be sufficient and he specifically told me not to retake the exam. I had a meeting online with him to ask him this very question. I am reading contradicting information on here and am getting a bit nervous.
