Too challenging and therefore diminished prob of acceptance into med school

[fourcredits]

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I am studying at university where unfortunately for me A = exceptional (and is never awarded) and C=average performance (which is what most people get). So, even though I have taken only 20 college credits (5 courses) so far, my GPA is quite lame and will continue to be lame, which will make me uncompetitive for medical school. I need 32 classes for a degree (128 credits).

The second problem is that the professors make classes needlessly difficult and assign way too much work. So most students take only one class a semester if they work part time and 2-3 classes if they work more hours. This translates to taking a long time to complete a degree.

The third problem is that the program is very expensive mainly because of the cost of living in the city and rental expenses, so I am going to be in severe debt even before I start medical school.

Perhaps my biggest problem is that we have to put in as many as 30-40 hours per class every week. That is way too much work. Even meaningless classes like French-I are brutal and most people fail the first time they take this class. The consequence of this is that people spend way too much time on very idiotic and meaningless classes like French-I or Expository Writing, so you don't get to focus on critical classes like Organic Chemistry or Physics. You barely get time to prepare for the MCAT. Which in turn translates to diminished chances of getting into medical school.

Could you suggest a solution to my problems? I am hesitant to transfer because the university is often acknowledged to be the top university in the country. But I see problems down the road if I continue here.

 

[demh23]

McGill?

 

[flatearth22]

What's your GPA so far?

Talk to your premed advisor and get guidance. I'm sure people have gotten to med school from there before...maybe you're taking the wrong types of classes. Maybe you're just not cut out for it. Also what kind of school lets most students take 1 class a semester!?!?

Personally I'd just transfer to the cheapest, warmest, least workload, directional state school I could find and destroy my dimwitted 85 IQ classmates for grades while majoring in something like sociology to have even more time to study for the MCAT and rack up EC's.

 

[iniquus]

What university is this, or are you trying to remain anonymous? I've never heard of one with a grading curve like that.

 

[fizzgig]

what is this magical hellhole? look seriously though, you may well be at a very difficult school, but you're unlikely to get tons of sympathy on this site. wherever it is there are people here who go there probably and have a 4.9000 GPA. if you aren't going to transfer, the short answer is that you need to figure out how to work these classes better than you currently are. surely there's some genius in these classes you can model your study behavior after.

as for the money that stinks but i dunno. i wasn't willing to do the big ugrad debt so i haven't (yet. hellooooo med school!) experienced the night sweats of giant unpaid piles of money. 🙁

 

[0919mmk]

I am studying at university where unfortunately for me A = exceptional (and is never awarded) and C=average performance (which is what most people get). So, even though I have taken only 20 college credits (5 courses) so far, my GPA is quite lame and will continue to be lame, which will make me uncompetitive for medical school. I need 32 classes for a degree (128 credits).

The second problem is that the professors make classes needlessly difficult and assign way too much work. So most students take only one class a semester if they work part time and 2-3 classes if they work more hours. This translates to taking a long time to complete a degree.

The third problem is that the program is very expensive mainly because of the cost of living in the city and rental expenses, so I am going to be in severe debt even before I start medical school.

Perhaps my biggest problem is that we have to put in as many as 30-40 hours per class every week. That is way too much work. Even meaningless classes like French-I are brutal and most people fail the first time they take this class. The consequence of this is that people spend way too much time on very idiotic and meaningless classes like French-I or Expository Writing, so you don't get to focus on critical classes like Organic Chemistry or Physics. You barely get time to prepare for the MCAT. Which in turn translates to diminished chances of getting into medical school.

Could you suggest a solution to my problems? I am hesitant to transfer because the university is often acknowledged to be the top university in the country. But I see problems down the road if I continue here.

OK well the solution is to transfer to a University that isn't fictitiously difficult.

I am guessing you are talking about Canada? I don't know much about Canadian schools (or wherever you are from), but

a) I've never heard of a schools where students take 1 class a semester. If that's true, then I don't even know what to tell you, other than

b) Whichever country you are from, it's not the USA, which means that you will be an international applicant, which means that it's going to be very tough for you to get in to a US med school anyway.

c) If the average GPA at your school is in fact 2.0, then your GPA will be compared to that school average. AdComs know that some schools are harder than others. So I guess if you have a 3.0 at a school with a 2.0 average, then you are pretty baller....

d) Most people actually fail French 1? OK, I think you need to tell us what school/country you are in, because apparently your school makes Harvard look like ******* State Community College

 

[theWUbear]

Personally I'd just transfer to the cheapest, warmest, least workload, directional state school I could find and destroy my dimwitted 85 IQ classmates for grades while majoring in something like sociology to have even more time to study for the MCAT and rack up EC's.

Having post-bacc'd at a second rate state school (GPA:3.9) for 10k per year after performing poorly at a top 20 US school (GPA: 2.6) for 50k per year, I strongly support this statement.

 

[V5RED]

edit: I was too slow and it was already answered lol

 

[fourcredits]

McGill?

Heck no. It's not in Canada. It's right here in the US.

 

[fourcredits]

I am guessing you are talking about Canada? I don't know much about Canadian schools (or wherever you are from), but

a) I've never heard of a schools where students take 1 class a semester. If that's true, then I don't even know what to tell you, other than

b) Whichever country you are from, it's not the USA, which means that you will be an international applicant, which means that it's going to be very tough for you to get in to a US med school anyway.

No, it's not an international school. It's not a Canadian school. It's right here in the United States but let's get past the name of my university and talk about substantive issues.

 

[fourcredits]

What's your GPA so far?

The first three classes I got a B. The other two I have C. Most kids get a C. Do you think medical schools will know this? I doubt it very much.

 

[V5RED]

No, it's not an international school. It's not a Canadian school. It's right here in the United States but let's get past the name of my university and talk about substantive issues.

The issue is one of two things. Either you have horrible study habits/skills or you are not smart enough to get the grades you need for medical school.

You should post your study methods and see if you can improve them.

 

[V5RED]

The first three classes I got a B. The other two I have C. Most kids get a C. Do you think medical schools will know this? I doubt it very much.

In every class I have had except 2 (one was strange and had a bimodal distribution and the other was just super easy) the average was a C. This is not something crazy.

 

[fourcredits]

The issue is one of two things. Either you have horrible study habits/skills or you are not smart enough to get the grades you need for medical school.

Please don't make infelicitous assumptions like
- I am at McGill or in Canada or this is not an American school
- I have horrible study skills
- I am not smart enough.

The problem is the university's grading philosophy where A is awarded only for exceptional work and since C equals average, everyone gets a C. The second problem is that the professors have a chip on their shoulder and seem to think it is only by assigning 30-40 hours of work a week, they make the class worthwhile. I would recommend this university to anyone wanting a corporate job but admission officers at med schools are unlikely to know what's really going on and are likely to presume I am a bad student, when in fact I am one of the best in my classes.

 

[Socialite19]

The issue is one of two things. Either you have horrible study habits/skills or you are not smart enough to get the grades you need for medical school.

You should post your study methods and see if you can improve them.

BBBBUUUURRRRNNNN!!!!!!!

To the OP, I don't know anything about your study habits or your person BUT if you do go to a US school and your not pulling acceptable grades yo need to:
1. Figure out what you are doing wrong. There is NO reason you should be studying 30-40 hours for 1 class that's ridiculous. You need to do a study skills workshop or something of the sort.
2. Talk to your proffesor. 8 times out of 1- your proffesors just want youto succeed in their class. Talk to your proffesor see if he can help you. BUT if this proves to be fruitless and your prof isn't trying to hep you AT ALL, you either need to change classes or start a petition against the teacher (though these rarily ever accomplish anything) and talk to the administrators.
3. If it truly is your institution that is providing obstacles to your success, you need to TRANSFER. Regardless of the name of the school, if you do well somewhere else than no one will blame you for transferring.

 

[mohad]

Well at least mention where you're going to school then. No one can sympathize with you or at least offer you information if they don't know where you're coming from. It's an anonymous forum. If you're that self conscious about people judging where you're getting your education, you need to grow up. And I mean that with the utmost respect.

 

[fourcredits]

BBBBUUUURRRRNNNN!!!!!!!

Figure out what you are doing wrong.

Like I said, the assumption that I am the one who is doing something wrong is an infelicitous one. Every student in the program I am in is struggling with the same issue. Maybe I should clarify: it's not the university that is the problem; it's the school at the university which is making things difficult. And yes indeed, they make you work 30-40 hours for each class! That is not an exaggeration.

 

[fourcredits]

No one can sympathize with you

I am not looking for sympathy.

 

[fourcredits]

you're unlikely to get tons of sympathy on this site.

I am not looking for sympathy, so can we get past these issues please?

 

[raltima07]

Lol, unless you tell us where you go we can't give you any advice except you're study habits suck or you are stupid.

 

[Onres]

I am not looking for sympathy, so can we get past these issues please?

Honestly, it would help if you mentioned your GPA and your school. I'm assuming if what you say is true about "everyone" getting only Cs then I'm sure adcoms have heard of this.

 

[camierz]

The University I go to the average is a B- in almost every class and sometimes even a C+. I'm sure adcoms take into consideration the hardness of your school, but it is so little that it doesn't even matter. If you can't get good grades at your school you need to transfer. A good GPA is what it comes down to. Not the difficulty of your prestigious institution.

 

[V5RED]

Like I said, the assumption that I am the one who is doing something wrong is an infelicitous one..

Was infelicitous the word on your word a day calendar?

You seem to reject anything other than the idea that you are in a hopeless situation.

 

[Bmed]

It's not the school, it's you.

 

[Onres]

The University I go to the average is a B- in almost every class and sometimes even a C+. I'm sure adcoms take into consideration the hardness of your school, but it is so little that it doesn't even matter. If you can't get good grades at your school you need to transfer. A good GPA is what it comes down to. Not the difficulty of your prestigious institution.

I have to agree with this. I can't imagine that a 2.9 at harvard would really impress anyone.

 

[fizzgig]

look. scenario 1. you are indeed a brilliant person with ideal study skills, and your program at your school is the hardest one in the country. no one at all ever manages to make over a 3.5 by the end of this program. the professors assign more work than any other program, and they are unhelpful when you go ask them how you can improve (have you done that?). if this is the case, what can we say. you're screwed. you enrolled in a program that no one can do well in, and according to you there's nothing you can change to begin doing well. you're going to have a low GPA and med schools WILL count that against you. there's just no magic solution for that.

scenario 2. you (along with a lot of other people) are having a lot of trouble with a difficult program. but, it's not impossible to come out of this program with a good GPA and many have done it before. if this is the case, you need to find out how to be one of those people. by talking to profs, talking to those who are doing well, by reevaluating yourself, etc. this has a solution.

if you're in scenario 2 and you are unwilling to consider that idea, however, then see scenario 1's conclusion. you will be screwed. i'm sorry but the tone of your post essentially says that there is NOTHING you can do and then you ask us what to do...

 

[music2doc]

I am not looking for sympathy, so can we get past these issues please?

So what do you want? It sounds an awful lot like you want sympathy. You're complaining about how difficult your school is, how difficult your classes are, how awful your professors are, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine and then you ask "what to do" but refuse to consider fixing yourself. You are, quite simply, playing the blame game.

This can be said of many of us as students....actually, most human beings are like this:

A lot of comedians, when they have a bad gig, will blame everything but themselves. They'll blame the crowd, or the room was wrong, it had a weird vibe, or the promoter promoted a weird atmosphere.

I'd like to be able to encourage you here, but all you seem to want is for people to agree with you that your program is impossibly difficult (which, sorry, is not true of any college or program of which I am aware). Further, your attitude is very arrogant and narrow-minded. If you told the docs I work with the things you just said about "useless" classes like French and English, you'd be in for a LOOOOOOONG lecture. (The content studied in English and even French is much more valuable to you as a future physician than anything in ochem if you talk to most docs.)

As mentioned in a prior post, either:

1) Your school is impossibly difficult and everyone truly fails because the program lacks good faculty (who would work with students) or any student services, in which case your are screwed. So is the school, btw, b/c eventually students will stop attending, tuition dollars will disappear, etc. Honestly, such a program would not be viable. Sure, there are programs where most students fail many/most classes freshmen year. (The ones I know of are hardcore engineering schools where the first year grades are generally given as P/F and then after that they count toward the GPA. These are not schools for people wanting to go to med school. However, these schools are generally not known for having difficult English and Foreign Language depts.)

2) You're really a B/C student who, perhaps, lacks some self-awareness. In this case, you've bought into rumors about how your school is the toughest in the country and have some delusions that it is absolutely impossible, the professors and staff don't want to help you, and everyone around you is failing as well. If this is the case, you can fix the problem. You must only step back and realize you were believing a lie. From there, you can humbly seek out the help you need. BTW, If you approach your professors with the attitude you've had in this thread, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were unhelpful or unresponsive -- it's off-putting! As a lab instructor and tutor at my university, I'd probably not be particularly interested in interacting with you either. Sure, I'd help and I'd still go out of my way for you, but as human beings we have natural, unsaid biases. The fact of the matter is that if you're whiny, make constant excuses, and won't listen, no one is going to want to spend much time helping you out.

 

[fourcredits]

The University I go to the average is a B- in almost every class and sometimes even a C+. I'm sure adcoms take into consideration the hardness of your school

I am not sure adcoms know much about the relative levels of difficulty in getting a 3.5 at every department in every university. Lower-level secretaries sort people into two piles: the low GPA and low MCAT ones and another pile with better scores. These lower-level secretaries move around from department to department within the medical college and sometimes even within the universities.

 

[Socialite19]

It's not the school, it's you.

👍

I'm pronouncing the OP a troll. Seeing as he clearly doesn't want to take any advice and only wants to rant about his school. But I'm sure the OP thinks I'm being infelicitous.
:troll:

 

[fourcredits]

👍

I'm pronouncing the OP a troll. Seeing as he clearly doesn't want to take any advice and only wants to rant about his school. But I'm sure the OP thinks I'm being infelicitous.
:troll:

Great! You have 7 posts and you've already started calling people trolls.

 

[KickStart]

Sounds like your ego needs to be put away and you need to transfer schools.

 

[fourcredits]

Is there a way to know the exact process of admission decision making within a medical school?

 

[fourcredits]

I have to agree with this. I can't imagine that a 2.9 at harvard would really impress anyone.

Do people at Harvard get a 2.9 on average? Curious.

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

The issue is one of two things. Either you have horrible study habits/skills or you are not smart enough to get the grades you need for medical school.

You should post your study methods and see if you can improve them.

this, quit bitchin OP. Nobody cares.

 

[mohad]

Jeez OP, just post which university you go to. I'll post mine! UT!

 

[fourcredits]

Is there a way for me to delete this entire thread? It's become unproductive and pointless.

 

[camierz]

I am not sure adcoms know much about the relative levels of difficulty in getting a 3.5 at every department in every university. Lower-level secretaries sort people into two piles: the low GPA and low MCAT ones and another pile with better scores. These lower-level secretaries move around from department to department within the medical college and sometimes even within the universities.

You only quoted a part of what I said and made it look like I said something completely different than what I said. Not sure why you keep being negative and complaining about going to a hard school and want everyone to feel bad for you or something. It doesn't matter the hardness of your university. Get above a 3.5 GPA. The average matriculant GPA at the University of Michigan (where I go) is a 3.6 GPA. This shows that it doesn't matter how hard or prestigious your university is. The GPA matters most.

 

[CaliforniaAppli]

OP stop blaming circumstances. You are not as smart as you thought you were. Now grow up and do something about it instead of blaming your profs/university.

ADCOMS have said(see latest Kaplan video) that they do consider a schools reputation for difficulty somewhat. And they will know this based on previous years applicants from your school.

However, this does not make up for B's and C's sorry.

 

[fourcredits]

The average matriculant GPA at the University of Michigan (where I go) is a 3.6 GPA.

With a 3.1 at my school, you make the Dean's List, so you can imagine what the average is!

I think I am going to stop responding because I don't want to keep defending myself and listening to insults - and no one seems to be willing to go past finding out the name of my school. Bye guys.

 

[raltima07]

OP stop blaming circumstances. You are not as smart as you thought you were. Now grow up and do something about it instead of blaming your profs/university.

ADCOMS have said(see latest Kaplan video) that they do consider a schools reputation for difficulty somewhat. And they will know this based on previous years applicants from your school.

However, this does not make up for B's and C's sorry.

What kaplan video?

 

[Hyperstudyosis]

I'd say transfer. I know you're hesitant to do so, but I think having a good gpa is better than graduating with a 2.5 (if you average B's and C's) from a top university. If it comes up in the med school interview why you transferred, you don't have to go into detail about how the grading was too rigorous; just tell them that it was too expensive and in the interests of being wise with money and saving for med school, you decided to go to a less expensive university. I don't see anything wrong with that. I went to an expensive, small private university for my first two years and then transferred to an out-of-state public university (also expensive). Looking back, I wish I had just gone to one of my state schools and paid $5000 in tuition per year. Then I wouldn't be paying back $500 per month in student loans now.

 

[gettheleadout]

We don't need to resort to name calling or insults, guys.


OP, if this school (Princeton?) is really as bad as you say it is, you should transfer. On the other hand, if it's difficult but some people are able to succeed, you should try to find a way to be one of those people. If you still can't cut it, getting out is better than killing your GPA further.

Edit: Oh yeah, in b4 apumic comes in and tells you your school has its grading priorities straight.

 

[WhizoMD]

The answer to your problem is so simple that it can be put in meme form:

1. transfer to podunk state
2. maintain ~4.0
3. cite "financial hardship" as reason for transferring
4.??????
5. Profit

 

[Eric01]

At my university the average gpa of classes are usually around 2.7-2.8. A good portion have averages around 2.2-2.5 though. Still, the distributions are around 20-25% get A next 20-25% get B 40% or so C and the remaining D and F.

I think that's about right for a college class nowadays.

Freshman classes tended to be quite bimodal though. Bunch of good grades, bunch of failing grades.

My advice:
-Transfer to derp-de-der-U get 4.0
-Retake the classes you got C in
-Apply to D.O. school

 

[music2doc]

With a 3.1 at my school, you make the Dean's List, so you can imagine what the average is!

I think I am going to stop responding because I don't want to keep defending myself and listening to insults - and no one seems to be willing to go past finding out the name of my school. Bye guys.

Honestly, this is much less uncommon than you might think. A quick Google search turns up numerous schools w/ a 3.0 Dean's List cutoff and/or people from various schools getting on the Dean's List w/ <3.1.

As for insults, no one here is "insulting" you that I've seen. Have you gotten some constructive criticism? Absolutely! It's all in how you read things. I really don't think anyone here is being malicious. Frankly, I suspect there are some unsaid things going on here. You should probably talk to some of the support staff at your school. Best of luck.

What kaplan video?

I suspect he was referring to the admissions videos on the Kaplan website. You can find them under the med school admissions pages.

I'd say transfer. I know you're hesitant to do so, but I think having a good gpa is better than graduating with a 2.5 (if you average B's and C's) from a top university. If it comes up in the med school interview why you transferred, you don't have to go into detail about how the grading was too rigorous; just tell them that it was too expensive and in the interests of being wise with money and saving for med school, you decided to go to a less expensive university. I don't see anything wrong with that. I went to an expensive, small private university for my first two years and then transferred to an out-of-state public university (also expensive). Looking back, I wish I had just gone to one of my state schools and paid $5000 in tuition per year. Then I wouldn't be paying back $500 per month in student loans now.

The problem I see with this is that based on what the OP has said, s/he will probably find out that every school is "the toughest school in the country" and have simply wasted time, effort, and money. It seems unlikely the OP will truly transfer to a school that is that much easier and be successful -- esp. b/c the OP clearly does not possess the attitude nor skills necessary to succeed at this time. It's the OP, not the school, that is the issue here.

 

[blizzah]

My school also has C or C+ averages (It is Canadian), but still, 10-15% of students can get A- or above.

Just make sure you are in that top 10%.

 

[Onres]

Do people at Harvard get a 2.9 on average? Curious.

Not the ones that go onto med school. Seriously though, I don't know.

I was just making a point that regardless of the prestige of your school you're expected to maintain a good GPA ie >3.5 to stand a good chance.

 

[Ansar]

I haz a sad because OP didn't reveal name of GPA-goes-to-die U

 

[propadex]

Hey fourcredits,

I think I was able to figure out what university you go to after a little research, based on what you've said. But to be honest, I'd never heard of your university before so I'm not sure that "it is often acknowledged to be the top university in the country". From my knowledge, that title is usually reserved for the likes of Harvard or Princeton(whose competitive applicants still are able to score >3.5).

If my guess is right, your dilemma is solved and you should transfer because your school may not be as prestigious as you think. Even if my guess is wrong, based on the given facts you should still transfer. Adcoms may take into account the difficulty of your school, but it will not make up for a low GPA. GPA is everything. This is not to say you won't get in anywhere. You can get in to medical school with a low GPA*. But why choose that risky and highly stressful path? It'll be much harder and you will likely have no options or control over where you go.

*You can take a look here to see the % of applicants accepted based on their MCAT and GPA(differs among ethnicities). https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html
People are accepted with a GPA as low as 2.0. But they likely have extraordinary MCAT, EC's, stories, personal statements, interviews, etc.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Lokhtar]

Universities like Harvey Mudd are notorious for grade deflation. I think Harvey Mudd has only had six students in its entire history achieve a 4.0 (including ALL majors). Something like 40% of it's students go on to get PhDs. However many schools like this include a deans letter along with a transcript explaining their grading policies. I think most schools would be aware of the few schools like this but really you're getting an amazing education so I'd do my best. Or if you really want - transfer out. Maybe somehow mention it in your essay about what the average gap is.