Too challenging and therefore diminished prob of acceptance into med school

[fastfingers]

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What school is this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this suspense is kiling me.

also, it seems like harvey mudd median gpa is'nt too bad. my undergrad has a lower median gpa.

 

[fourcredits]

If that was the case, more people would slack off in college classes and focus solely on acing the MCAT. Grades help showcase a student's work ethic. In my opinion, I think both the GPA and MCAT are necessary.

At a school I know, you get an A for enrollment (even if you don't show up to most classes, you still get an A). At my school, the kind of students who can touch 40's on their MCATs are pulling B's and C's. Grades should not be considered.

If you think students would slack off and focus solely on the MCAT, then you need to have a broader, comprehensive test that tests you on a very wide range of substantive knowledge. Some overseas professional programs have entrance examinations of this nature.

 

[fourcredits]

If you manage to pull a decent GPA (at least a 3.1), a high MCAT could perhaps compensate for a lower GPA.

There are kids who pull a 3.1 GPA but these kids just take one or two classes a semester. That's taking forever to complete the degree. I believe the maximum number of classes we're allowed to enroll for in a semester is 4.

 

[fourcredits]

What school is this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this suspense is kiling me.

also, it seems like harvey mudd median gpa is'nt too bad. my undergrad has a lower median gpa.

Yeah, get past the curiosity and talk about the other stuff.

 

[Ursa]

Please don't make infelicitous assumptions like
- I am at McGill or in Canada or this is not an American school
- I have horrible study skills
- I am not smart enough.

The problem is the university's grading philosophy where A is awarded only for exceptional work and since C equals average, everyone gets a C. The second problem is that the professors have a chip on their shoulder and seem to think it is only by assigning 30-40 hours of work a week, they make the class worthwhile. I would recommend this university to anyone wanting a corporate job but admission officers at med schools are unlikely to know what's really going on and are likely to presume I am a bad student, when in fact I am one of the best in my classes.

I have some responses to the bolded.

If you have a problem with places that only reward exceptional students with A's and average students with C's, then don't go to med school.

So you are saying that if anyone took a full load of classes (which is done by most students at every "prestigious" university), they would have to study for 150-200 hours per week? There are only 168 hours in a week, ya know.

I find your posts to be full of justifications and insecurity about your mediocre GPA.

1. stop whining
2. transfer
3. get a good GPA if you really are a "top student" at an Ivy League/Top school
4. possibly get into med school

 

[blizzah]

There are kids who pull a 3.1 GPA but these kids just take one or two classes a semester. That's taking forever to complete the degree. I believe the maximum number of classes we're allowed to enroll for in a semester is 4.

So it takes everyone at least 5 years to graduate?

 

[fourcredits]

So you are saying that if anyone took a full load of classes (which is done by most students at every "prestigious" university), they would have to study for 150-200 hours per week? There are only 168 hours in a week, ya know.

You aren't reading what I wrote. Most students take only one or two classes a semester. Even the school's site suggests taking one class a semester when you start out! One class!!

 

[fourcredits]

So it takes everyone at least 5 years to graduate?

Or more!!

 

[MacVA]

Princeton?

 

[fastfingers]

must be trolling. no way a college is like this without being famous.

but my helpful answer is, med schools factor in tough schools. if you go to MIT as an engineer. they prolly give you like a .3 gpa boost. but a .3 gpa boost is no use if ur gpa is like 2.8.

 

[UnclePhil]

You aren't reading what I wrote. Most students take only one or two classes a semester. Even the school's site suggests taking one class a semester when you start out! One class!!

Uh... so it takes a minimum of 5 years just to finish pre-reqs alone? Interesting, I guess you don't have majors at this school either then.

 

[blizzah]

Or more!!

What made your bright mind choose to attend an undergrad where you need 6 years + to finish.

 

[UnclePhil]

this has to be a troll thread.

or rather, I hope it's a troll thread.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

you obviously just suck

 

[911 Turbo]

Hey fourcredits,

I think I was able to figure out what university you go to after a little research, based on what you've said. But to be honest, I'd never heard of your university before so I'm not sure that "it is often acknowledged to be the top university in the country". From my knowledge, that title is usually reserved for the likes of Harvard or Princeton(whose competitive applicants still are able to score >3.5).

If my guess is right, your dilemma is solved and you should transfer because your school may not be as prestigious as you think. Even if my guess is wrong, based on the given facts you should still transfer. Adcoms may take into account the difficulty of your school, but it will not make up for a low GPA. GPA is everything. This is not to say you won't get in anywhere. You can get in to medical school with a low GPA*. But why choose that risky and highly stressful path? It'll be much harder and you will likely have no options or control over where you go.

*You can take a look here to see the % of applicants accepted based on their MCAT and GPA(differs among ethnicities). https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html
People are accepted with a GPA as low as 2.0. But they likely have extraordinary MCAT, EC's, stories, personal statements, interviews, etc.

Good luck with your decision.

Wow bro thanks for not telling us.

 

[Wolfman89]

Maybe, but honestly, if a class is that easy, is it really worth taking? (Maybe...but probably not in most cases since that would seem to indicate the material could be just as easily be learned w/o the class or that more could be learned in the same period of time.)
IMO, the problem w/ American education is that far too many people are willing to settle for mediocrity. We get all scared of failing people and, as a result, we (Americans) are 14th, 25th, and 17th in reading, math, and science scores of 65 countries. That is absolutely PATHETIC (considering how wealthy we are, how successful the US has been in the past, etc.). Sure, if we were #1 in the world, I'd buy your argument but we're not even close.

QFT

 

[Person0715]

I find it hard to believe a college exists where the usual course load is two classes a year. You will never graduate at that rate.

:troll:

 

[kautionwirez]

Please don't make infelicitous assumptions like
- I am at McGill or in Canada or this is not an American school
- I have horrible study skills
- I am not smart enough.

The problem is the university's grading philosophy where A is awarded only for exceptional work and since C equals average, everyone gets a C. The second problem is that the professors have a chip on their shoulder and seem to think it is only by assigning 30-40 hours of work a week, they make the class worthwhile. I would recommend this university to anyone wanting a corporate job but admission officers at med schools are unlikely to know what's really going on and are likely to presume I am a bad student, when in fact I am one of the best in my classes.

that's pretty much a lot of top tier schools bro.

 

[fourcredits]

Wow bro thanks for not telling us.

One person actually went through my old threads and found out my school. You guys are not reading and not paying attention, which is lucky for me.

 

[BigBear123]

Maybe the med schools in Missouri will appreciate the difficulty of your school? Unfortunately, I do not think that most med school adcoms are any more familiar with your school than we are. To them, it is most likely just another nameless state school. I would strongly recommend you to transfer. Med school admissions are unfair in this regard, but you have to learn to play the game.

 

[fastfingers]

according to my pro stalking skills, OP goes to harvard extension school. w/e that is. I tried to wiki, but i got bored.

 

[BigBear123]

Edit: My bad. I can't find which college OP goes to.

 

[fastfingers]

i guess must be trollin then.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

The problem is the university's grading philosophy where A is awarded only for exceptional work and since C equals average, everyone gets a C.

Sounds about right to me. What is an A supposed to represent? What about a C?

Is there a way for me to delete this entire thread? It's become unproductive and pointless.

Nothing has changed - the thread started out as unproductive and pointless.

 

[Ursa]

You aren't reading what I wrote. Most students take only one or two classes a semester. Even the school's site suggests taking one class a semester when you start out! One class!!

Harvard Extension doesn't warrant nearly the amount of prestige that Harvard proper does. Like....not even close. Stop being fooled into thinking that you are going to a top-tier school, because you aren't. The school you are going to is an inferior extension of a great school.

I have one question for you, OP. Are you a non-trad? This is the missing piece to this puzzle. But I'm starting to smell troll droppings.

 

[Wolfman89]

 

[fourcredits]

I have one question for you, OP. Are you a non-trad? This is the missing piece to this puzzle. But I'm starting to smell troll droppings.

I am not a non-trad and I certainly don't go to Harvard Extension. Yeah, keep insulting, offending or disrespecting people and expect them to give away the name of their college and expect them to answer your questions.

 

[damndinosaur]

The issue is one of two things. Either you have horrible study habits/skills or you are not smart enough to get the grades you need for medical school.

You should post your study methods and see if you can improve them.

either this or you're just plain lying. unless you divulge the name of the school, it doesn't exist

 

[bkprodigy]

Why is it so hard to disclose the name of the school?😕

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Why is it so hard to disclose the name of the school?😕

Two possible explanations:

1. This is a troll thread.

2. The school is not actually as hard as the OP makes it out to be.

 

[fourcredits]

Why is it so hard to disclose the name of the school?😕

Because there might be adcoms or medical students who would sit on admission committees who might be lurking here and I don't want what I write to rub off either on me or my school or my colleagues. Furthermore, some people, like me, are just privacy conscious whereas others don't mind plastering their pictures all over the internet.

 

[NYBills987]

Because there might be adcoms or medical students who would sit on admission committees who might be lurking here and I don't want what I write to rub off either on me or my school or my colleagues. Furthermore, some people, like me, are just privacy conscious whereas others don't mind plastering their pictures all over the internet.

Well.. your school apparently has a bunch of kids with 2.8 GPAs ripping 40+ on the MCAT... I think that group alone should make you stand out. I am assuming your class is a bell curve, and you need to be studying more efficiently. I really find it impossible to believe everyone takes 2 classes a semester (are you even considered a full time student ?) unless you go to a night class or something.. You need to talk to your professor or transfer out of this nightmare of a school if it exists.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Well.. your school apparently has a bunch of kids with 2.8 GPAs ripping 40+ on the MCAT... I think that group alone should make you stand out. I am assuming your class is a bell curve, and you need to be studying more efficiently. I really find it impossible to believe everyone takes 2 classes a semester (are you even considered a full time student ?) unless you go to a night class or something.. You need to talk to your professor or transfer out of this nightmare of a school if it exists.

The 2 classes thing is bull****. This would cause a huge problem with financial aid, which is a federally funded program that doesn't vary from school to school. Good luck trying to get financial aid for more than 5 years while taking only 2 classes a semester. Or does your school not offer financial aid either 🙄

 

[fastfingers]

yeah, if an adcom read this post and saw your school name, they'd be like "i gotta accept this dude."

 

[Person0715]

Two possible explanations:

1. This is a troll thread.

2. The school is not actually as hard as the OP makes it out to be.

I suspect it is the second one. It annoys me when people claim their school is exceptionally challenging or harsh when it comes to grading, but how do they really know unless they have attended numerous institutions?

OP is most likely struggling and is trying to justify it to nameless strangers on the internets

 

[RookTookIt]

yeah, if an adcom read this post and saw your school name, they'd be like "i gotta accept this dude."

For real. Since this school is clearly not very well known, you should want to generate some buzz for it before applying.

 

[Perrotfish]

...

 

[911 Turbo]

Dude it might be Grove City College
http://www.gcc.edu/freshman_profile.php

Apparently a lot of people that go there bitch about how hard it is
http://www.studentsreview.com/PA/GCC_comments.html?page=1&type=negative&d_school=Grove City College

Edit....Nvm you need a 3.4 for the Dean's list here

 

[Blarry]

The University I go to the average is a B- in almost every class and sometimes even a C+. I'm sure adcoms take into consideration the hardness of your school, but it is so little that it doesn't even matter. If you can't get good grades at your school you need to transfer. A good GPA is what it comes down to. Not the difficulty of your prestigious institution.

o wow a B- avg... sounds like my school and every school one of my friends go to. I'm thinking your just not cut out for med school.

 

[911 Turbo]

Dude it might be Grove City College
http://www.gcc.edu/freshman_profile.php

Apparently a lot of people that go there bitch about how hard it is
http://www.studentsreview.com/PA/GCC_comments.html?page=1&type=negative&d_school=Grove City College

Edit....Nvm you need a 3.4 for the Dean's list here

HOWEVER

Tennessee Tech does need a 3.1 for the Dean's list
https://www2.tntech.edu/publicaffairs/rel/2008/may08/deansspring08.html

 

[rihdus]

Your ranking also appears on your transcript, so if the classes are as tough as you say they are you should still have a high ranking despite a low gpa. I think this would still look favorable.

 

[propadex]

HOWEVER

Tennessee Tech does need a 3.1 for the Dean's list
https://www2.tntech.edu/publicaffairs/rel/2008/may08/deansspring08.html

Nice find, but I don't think it's TTU. It's ranked 29 for Regional Universities in the South. OP comes off as overconfident in some posts, but seems smart enough - I don't think he/she is deluded enough to mistake it as one of the top universities in the US.

I feel the same way as you do. And I am actually thinking of transferring to a state school from an Ivy. The reason being, I don't want an Ivy after my name - I just want to get into medical school. Statistically, my chances of getting into medical school are MUCH greater from a state school than from my elite school. Most pre-med students at my school just get a B average at best. I have heard that Organic Chemistry is difficult but at my school, the Physics class is the problem. It is pretty difficult to get anything over a C in Physics. And it's kinda hard to get into medical schools with C's. I wish medical schools looked only at MCAT scores and not at grades. Because all of us seem to get pretty good MCAT scores despite our C's, C minuses and B's.

In any case, OP claims to be from an Ivy. If he/she actually is from one, it is likely Harvard. Otherwise it might be some top secret elite college of a university and all of our advice about transferring is useless because we don't know all the facts.

But anyways. OP. Based on the given information.. if you sift through the responses(ignoring responses about what school you go to), you will see that the general consensus is that you should transfer. Even if we assumed that you went to one of the most prestigious schools in the US (Harvard/Princeton/Yale), the advice you're getting would likely still be the same. So if you're really considering transferring, you should probably get on it. I assume its a process that requires significant planning.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Nice find, but I don't think it's TTU. It's ranked 29 for Regional Universities in the South. OP comes off as overconfident in some posts, but seems smart enough - I don't think he/she is deluded enough to mistake it as one of the top universities in the US.



In any case, OP claims to be from an Ivy. If he/she actually is from one, it is likely Harvard. Otherwise it might be some top secret elite college of a university and all of our advice about transferring is useless because we don't know all the facts.

But anyways. OP. Based on the given information.. if you sift through the responses(ignoring responses about what school you go to), you will see that the general consensus is that you should transfer. Even if we assumed that you went to one of the most prestigious schools in the US (Harvard/Princeton/Yale), the advice you're getting would likely still be the same. So if you're really considering transferring, you should probably get on it. I assume its a process that requires significant planning.

Except that Harvard is known for grade inflation.

 

[propadex]

Except that Harvard is known for grade inflation.

You're right.

Back to the subject. OP. Consider transferring! Your situation bothers me because it is similar to what happened to me in high school. Unless you love your school or think its educational experience cannot be matched, get out. GPA is everything - GPA and MCAT are the foundations of your application. Obvious, but important.

 

[Hoya2009]

You're right.

Back to the subject. OP. Consider transferring! Your situation bothers me because it is similar to what happened to me in high school. Unless you love your school or think its educational experience cannot be matched, get out. GPA is everything - GPA and MCAT are the foundations of your application. Obvious, but important.

I found the Ivy the OP is attending:

http://www.theivyschool.org/Main/asp/default.asp

It's a bilingual school and OP only speaks English, so he's having trouble with recreo/recess, pintar con los dedos/ finger painting and operaciones matemáticas sencillas/ simple mathematics. Don't even mention historia de los EEUU/US History and Español/Spanish and Inglés/English language arts classes. Qué dificil! Qué lástima!/ How difficult! What a shame!

 

[ywlke]

If your school really is considered the top in the nation by many, adcoms should be aware of its grading policies. Hopkins is considered by many to be a "tier 2" undergrad but most adcoms know that we have a covered grades semester which means some of our pre-reqs will only show pass/fail, but that doesn't count against us. As others have said, if you're sure it's them and not you, then transfer out.

 

[NYBills987]

Guys its pretty clear by now that this school does not exist. The OP said his school is an Ivy. Therefore, the school can only be:

Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania, or Yale University

While Princeton has a slight reputation for being difficult to maintain a high GPA, its nowhere near what the poster is describing. None of the other schools are like what the poster describes at all. By deduction, there is no such school. OP, step one to getting to med school is going to a real college. Good luck!

 

[blizzah]

Unless the OP is a ***** and thinks the term 'Ivy' applies to all 'top' universities anywhere in the US

Maybe his school has some ivy growing on some buildings. I know mine does

 

[Suncrusher]

In retrospect I wish I had transferred to my third-tier state school and gotten a higher GPA. (I'm not bashing state schools in general; many/most of them are excellent schools. However, the state school in my area of my state is third-tier, or even worse. A friend of mine transferred there and said that in comparison, it was like going back to high school. There was pretty much zero competition for the top grade in any class. There was like 30% of extra credit on every test, even though the tests were all easy enough that no one needed any. My friend got over 100% in most of the med school prereq classes. Most of the students at this specific school probably should not have been pursuing a 4-year degree in the first place. Read the rest of my post in light of those facts for this specific school only.)

Whether or not one thinks that GPA (which is wildly unstandardized; people on SDN often claim it demonstrates one's work ethic to adcoms, but that means little to me considering that it simply takes much less work to get A's at some schools compared to others) should matter at all compared to a standardized test like the MCAT, the reality is that it does matter to adcoms...a lot. And in my n=1 experience/biased opinion, med schools do not give enough of a GPA boost to students who attend difficult schools. So, looking back on my college career, I wish I had stopped whining, transferred to the easiest school I could find, and made everything easier on myself while possibly getting into better med schools. If med schools really want people who challenge themselves to the fullest, they can do it by stopping taking GPA into account in addition to seeking high-achieving future leaders and innovators by looking closely at people's ECs like they already do. Until med schools stop taking GPA into account--if they ever stop, which I highly doubt will happen because they simply need more and more metrics with which to differentiate the relatively high number of applicants they get--then pre-meds should play by the current rules of the game and do what they have to do in order to have the highest GPA! For students at some schools, that means working harder or studying differently; for students at other schools, it means ditching the insanely hard engineering major, or transferring. Yes, there are some ballers who go to the insanely hard schools and still get all A's, but people like that aren't the only ones worthy of being doctors. So the rest of us should do what we have to do in order to have the highest GPA, including transferring. I certainly wish I had done that. There's no question in my mind. If the med school application process is indeed flawed because it takes wildly unstandardized GPAs into account too much, it certainly isn't our responsibility as pre-meds to try and change that by working our asses off at difficult schools and then failing to be accepted to medical school because of our low GPAs. I doubt there is anyone out there who thinks to themselves, "Well, I'm utterly miserable in my non-physician career after my low GPA kept me out of med school, but it's been totally worth it to have the tiny amount of pride that comes from knowing that I stuck things out at a school that in my opinion was harder than other people's schools." No.

Anyway, I can't change any of this now; I'm happy with the med schools I got into and all I can do is continue to study hard and have an awesome time in med school! : ) But when I see threads like this, the answer seems pretty obvious to me...

tl;dr: stop whining/trolling and either work harder or transfer or both. Get the highest GPA+MCAT combo you can by whatever means necessary, up to and including the ritual sacrifice of babies. Just kidding about that last part.

 

[fourcredits]

There's another reason why I am not telling you what school I go to. And that's because I don't like people who insist on knowing irrelevant facts (that someone doesn't want to share) and cannot move forward without knowing those facts. I don't like such people. I have many such individuals at my Ivy and I don't care for them. I don't like their socio-demographics and their psychological make-up. I don't like their moms. I don't like their dads. I don't like anything about them. If you've ever been to an Ivy League campus, you meet many such individuals. One example is my race. Kids constantly ask me what race I am and I tell them I don't believe in the construct of race, I don't believe in affirmative action, and it doesn't matter what race I am. And they simply cannot get past that. THEY'VE GOTTA KNOW my race!!! If it bothers people that I didn't mention what school it is, then I am delighted I am causing you that agony.