Too good to be true jobs?

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scoopdaboop

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Why would anyone do hospitalist work if outpatient is more lucrative? Or are these jobs just fishy?

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Why would anyone do hospitalist work if outpatient is more lucrative? Or are these jobs just fishy?
Impossible to say if the jobs suck or the comp #s are bulls**t. Or if they're just sweet AF. (Note: If these jobs were really that sweet, they wouldn't be filled by recruiter ads.)

But to answer the first question, people do hospitalist work because they like it...and hate outpatient primary care. They are different specialties, despite falling under the IM umbrella.
 
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Why would anyone do hospitalist work if outpatient is more lucrative? Or are these jobs just fishy?
Outpatient has paid more than inpatient in my city for years, and I doubt its unique. People do hospitalist because they like it more, or because IM residency has given them a ****ty view of primary care.

(Personally I think getting paid twenty grand more to work a better schedule and have weekends off is a no brainer but that’s just me.)
 
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Why would anyone do hospitalist work if outpatient is more lucrative? Or are these jobs just fishy?

It's not just hospitalist. Something is going on in TN for other specialties such as ID. Jobs there are paying $475 average for ID. I'd be curious to know what's going.
 
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It's not just hospitalist. Something is going on in TN for other specialties such as ID. Jobs there are paying $475 average for ID. I'd be curious to know what's going.

covid desperation? oversight needed to meet new cms regs for things like abx stewardship and infection control? cdc is going to be sending out a lot of money for those things…
 
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Maybe people don't want to work there because their woke government politicized the medical board?

Also I found it hilarious CMS is worried about antibiotic problems after their ridiculous SEP guidelines. They have so many measures punishing infections or delay in antibiotics which has created reflexive automatic ordering of antibiotics in essentially everyone with vital sign abnormalities on presentation (or not checking urine cultures or prophylactic antibiotics in ventilated patients etc etc) to avoid getting penalized and now to un-do their damage they want to punish people for doing exactly what they wanted? Maybe it would be a good idea to have people who practice medicine involved in their decisions from time to time.
 
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Maybe people don't want to work there because their woke government politicized the medical board?

Also I found it hilarious CMS is worried about antibiotic problems after their ridiculous SEP guidelines. They have so many measures punishing infections or delay in antibiotics which has created reflexive automatic ordering of antibiotics in essentially everyone with vital sign abnormalities on presentation (or not checking urine cultures or prophylactic antibiotics in ventilated patients etc etc) to avoid getting penalized and now to un-do their damage they want to punish people for doing exactly what they wanted? Maybe it would be a good idea to have people who practice medicine involved in their decisions from time to time.

Saw this first hand as an intern. Maybe just drop the penalties altogether. Let’s be honest the only reason the infection rates dropped is because if it happens they just don’t report it or they put it under another a different diagnosis to avoid penalties.
 
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Maybe people don't want to work there because their woke government politicized the medical board?

Also I found it hilarious CMS is worried about antibiotic problems after their ridiculous SEP guidelines. They have so many measures punishing infections or delay in antibiotics which has created reflexive automatic ordering of antibiotics in essentially everyone with vital sign abnormalities on presentation (or not checking urine cultures or prophylactic antibiotics in ventilated patients etc etc) to avoid getting penalized and now to un-do their damage they want to punish people for doing exactly what they wanted? Maybe it would be a good idea to have people who practice medicine involved in their decisions from time to time.

Lol @ "woke government"... I assume you are using it in a kinda sarcastic way.

I read that article. It's crazy. The current political climate is rotting brains and our society is drying of something akin to neurosyphilis.
 
Maybe people don't want to work there because their woke government politicized the medical board?

Also I found it hilarious CMS is worried about antibiotic problems after their ridiculous SEP guidelines. They have so many measures punishing infections or delay in antibiotics which has created reflexive automatic ordering of antibiotics in essentially everyone with vital sign abnormalities on presentation (or not checking urine cultures or prophylactic antibiotics in ventilated patients etc etc) to avoid getting penalized and now to un-do their damage they want to punish people for doing exactly what they wanted? Maybe it would be a good idea to have people who practice medicine involved in their decisions from time to time.

:cautious:

But making 400+ a year as an ID doc?*


*prolly means taking on 20-30 patients per day and leaving at 8pm.
 
Outpatient has paid more than inpatient in my city for years, and I doubt its unique. People do hospitalist because they like it more, or because IM residency has given them a ****ty view of primary care.

(Personally I think getting paid twenty grand more to work a better schedule and have weekends off is a no brainer but that’s just me.)
?better schedule!

Most hospitalists think M-F 8-5 pm is a horrible schedule. I happen to be one of these hospitalists.

I will take my 7 days on/off (7am-6pm while having 1+ hrs breakfast/lunch and 1-2 hrs watching CNBC) over any M-F (8a-5pm) 15 minutes slot/patient outpatient gig. I am also glad you like your schedule.
 
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?better schedule!

Most hospitalists think M-F 8-5 pm is a horrible schedule. I happen to be one of these hospitalists.

I will take my 7 days on/off (7am-6pm while having 1+ hrs breakfast/lunch and 1-2 hrs watching CNBC) over any M-F (8a-5pm) 15 minutes slot/patient outpatient gig. I am also glad you like your schedule.


I also hate having to wait for other people to do my job. I'd have a zero tolerance policy for that **** if I had to do that for a living. I can do clinic maybe once or twice per week. But everyday? No thank you.
 
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?better schedule!

Most hospitalists think M-F 8-5 pm is a horrible schedule. I happen to be one of these hospitalists.

I will take my 7 days on/off (7am-6pm while having 1+ hrs breakfast/lunch and 1-2 hrs watching CNBC) over any M-F (8a-5pm) 15 minutes slot/patient outpatient gig. I am also glad you like your schedule.
Outpatient also feels a lot more draining

You’re scheduled 20 patients a day but after all the refills, calling patients about their inquiries etc it feels like you’ve “seen” much more than 20. I’m a resident and I barely have time to breathe when I’m in clinic and I don’t even have 20 scheduled. I know resident clinic sucks compared to a real one, but inpatient even with all the dispo and pager stuff feels like less work per hour
 
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Outpatient also feels a lot more draining

You’re scheduled 20 patients a day but after all the refills, calling patients about their inquiries etc it feels like you’ve “seen” much more than 20. I’m a resident and I barely have time to breathe when I’m in clinic and I don’t even have 20 scheduled. I know resident clinic sucks compared to a real one, but inpatient even with all the dispo and pager stuff feels like less work per hour
If you're calling patients back personally, you're doing it wrong. My phone calls go 2 different ways. I look at the phone message from the nurse. If I can answer it with 1-2 typed sentences, I send that back to the nurse and she calls the patient. If its more complex than that, the patient needs an appointment.

Refills should be handled at appointments 99% of the time. At every visit I make sure to give enough meds to last until I want to see them in the office again. When they inevitably call wanting refills at the 6 month mark, I have a button I press in Epic that sends a note to my nurse saying that the patient needs an appointment but that they can call in a 30 day supply if the patient can't get into the office before they run out of medication. Literally takes 10 seconds or less.
 
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Outpatient also feels a lot more draining

You’re scheduled 20 patients a day but after all the refills, calling patients about their inquiries etc it feels like you’ve “seen” much more than 20. I’m a resident and I barely have time to breathe when I’m in clinic and I don’t even have 20 scheduled. I know resident clinic sucks compared to a real one, but inpatient even with all the dispo and pager stuff feels like less work per hour
I imagine people get more efficient after they have been doing for a few years, but there is less flexibility in inpatient than...

I think it's probably one the main reasons why hospital medicine has become popular even to FM residents/attendings
 
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I have friends who are employed as solely outpatient IM/FM making 300k+ working 4 days a week… and I know partners in local internal medicine private practice are clearing 400k+. Hard to argue hospitalist beats either of those from a life style, work life balance, or compensation. $ per hour is higher for primary care. If one is entrepreneurial, there is also much more opportunity for income as a private outpatient physician. Being a hospitalist involves being dumped on by almost everyone in the hospital and being admin’s bitch. As a PCP you hold the cards as a revenue generator and referral source.
 
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Clinic makes or breaks you based on the support of you staff and your own efficiency. I know I needed to grow into it, and I’m still periodically learning better ways to do things. It is a process, and it’s not something that residents get to see much of so it seems better to just do inpatient. That said, I am probably still more efficient inpatient, but I don’t find clinic a turnoff. The variety is good to me.

That would be a different story if I had no control over my staff or no say in what my schedule was.
 
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I have friends who are employed as solely outpatient IM/FM making 300k+ working 4 days a week… and I know partners in local internal medicine private practice are clearing 400k+. Hard to argue hospitalist beats either of those from a life style, work life balance, or compensation. $ per hour is higher for primary care. If one is entrepreneurial, there is also much more opportunity for income as a private outpatient physician. Being a hospitalist involves being dumped on by almost everyone in the hospital and being admin’s bitch. As a PCP you hold the cards as a revenue generator and referral source.
I dont think I would trade my gig for a 4 days/wk outpatient. But it is a good gig though.

My issue with outpatient is the flexibility. ?2 wks ago, I sat in the physician lounge and watched an entire march madness college basketball game between Illinois vs. Houston... Did not have anyone waiting to be seen. In fact, my PD watched the whole game as well. For instance, I will have 5 wks off in a row during summer to travel. Another colleague is going to get 9 wks off.

Cant do these things in outpatient setting every year because your partner(s) will say that 'You are not a team player.'
 
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You just can't compare jobs like this based on compensation (or possible compensation) alone. Hospitalist work and PCP work are very different. I see people sometimes comparing different specialities within IM using compensation as well. This is apples and oranges. In general, outpatient private practice in any field is always going to have a higher ceiling. Employed positions typically have higher bases. Outpatient PP is a business with opportunities for revenue streams beyond just seeing patients. Nothing is free. People who make significantly above the median in any field are working hard, at least initially. But that depends on how you like to practice, where you want to live, where you're at in life, and what kind of personal investment you want to make in your work. An outpatient PCP who employs midlevels and other physicians, has great staff, owns their own building, has an excellent payor mix, sees a high volume of patients, and maybe offers some additional services (wt loss, hormones, cosmetics, whatever) is obviously going to earn way more than a PCP who works as an employee of the local large health system and sees 18pt/day with nights/weekends/holidays off and multiple weeks of vacation per year. As a hospitalist, your ceiling is generally not as high. I've heard of some small hospitalist groups that own their own group, contract with a hospitals and local care facilities, employ their own midlevels, and have negotiated lucrative contracts. The partners in these groups make significantly more than the hospitalist who is just a w-2 employee of some large hospital system...but, again, more headache and more personal investment.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. There's some unicorns out there but there's a reason there's a median of compensation. Anything offering really high numbers should have a clear explanation for why they are an outlier or you should be suspicious.
 
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I dont think I would trade my gig for a 4 days/wk outpatient. But it is a good gig though.

My issue with outpatient is the flexibility. ?2 wks ago, I sat in the physician lounge and watched an entire march madness college basketball game between Illinois vs. Houston... Did not have anyone waiting to be seen. In fact, my PD watched the whole game as well. For instance, I will have 5 wks off in a row during summer to travel. Another colleague is going to get 9 wks off.

Cant do these things in outpatient setting every year because your partner(s) will say that 'You are not a team player.'
And that entire time you generated no revenue and cost the hospital money. This will come home to roost eventually--they will reduce staff to keep your busy or replace you with a cheaper alternative. The outpatient doc working like a dog is not ever going to have to worry about that. Enjoy it while you can though....
 
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And that entire time you generated no revenue and cost the hospital money. This will come home to roost eventually--they will reduce staff to keep your busy or replace you with a cheaper alternative. The outpatient doc working like a dog is not ever going to have to worry about that. Enjoy it while you can though....

The CEO/CFO are making banks while not generating any revenue. I have a 5-yr plan and if it's well executed, the system can go bunker and I should be ok.
 
I agree. The CEO/CFO are making banks while not generating any revenue. I have a 5-yr plan and if it's well executed, the system can go bunker and I should be ok.
They run healthcare not doctors--they are never going to be at risk and to think otherwise is delusional until the healthcare system collapses. It is like thinking that the general of the army is at risk for getting shot in battle.

Congrats on a 5 year plan. Cant imagine a scenario where that would work outside of ortho spine making 3M a year to not have to ever work again after 5 years but if you think you got that congrats.
 
They run healthcare not doctors--they are never going to be at risk and to think otherwise is delusional until the healthcare system collapses. It is like thinking that the general of the army is at risk for getting shot in battle.

Congrats on a 5 year plan. Cant imagine a scenario where that would work outside of ortho spine making 3M a year to not have to ever work again after 5 years but if you think you got that congrats.

It's not to never have to work again, it's putting yourself in a position to have the same lifestyle even if your salary were to cut in half. The plan is simple. I made 67k as a PGY-3. Now I am living on on 100k/yr and invest the rest. When student loan payment resume, I will add 36k just to account for student loan payment (136-140k).
 
It's not to never have to work again, it's putting yourself in a position to have the same lifestyle even if your salary were to cut in half. The plan is simple. I made 67k as a PGY-3. Now I am living on on 100k/yr and invest the rest. When student loan payment resume, I will add 36k just to account for student loan payment (136-140k).

Just going to point out for others that if you were to work hard and put away $750k in savings over 5 years (aka worked extra shifts/nights as a hospitalist to hit $400-450k, saved $150k/yr and lived like a resident), let it compound for 31 years (ages 36-67) at 6% (below the average inflation adjusted, dividend reinvested S&P 500 returns from 1925-2022) you'll end up with >$4mm. If you did nothing else but leave that money alone and never touched it. Compounding is very powerful. It often feels like people don't recognize that. So working part time after 5 years to cover living expenses is a lot more doable than people think depending on how they define quality of life and how expensive that definition happens to be.
 
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When recruiters advertise 500k jobs for outpatient medicine (especially partnership track), they almost are never talking about this group paying you 500k guaranteed. In fact, private groups with partnership track NEVER offer up a ton of guaranteed cash up front, because it would mean the existing partners are taking on huge risk.

What the recruiters mean is that they picked out the highest earner in this group and are telling you that if you work hard, you have the potential to make 500k. Some job postings are a bit more honest and say "proven 500k earning potential."

So, no. This job isn't too good to be true. It's just deceptive marketing.

The 370k guaranteed is most likely hospital employed, and is legit. Most likely deep in the boonies.
 
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If you're calling patients back personally, you're doing it wrong. My phone calls go 2 different ways. I look at the phone message from the nurse. If I can answer it with 1-2 typed sentences, I send that back to the nurse and she calls the patient. If its more complex than that, the patient needs an appointment.

Refills should be handled at appointments 99% of the time. At every visit I make sure to give enough meds to last until I want to see them in the office again. When they inevitably call wanting refills at the 6 month mark, I have a button I press in Epic that sends a note to my nurse saying that the patient needs an appointment but that they can call in a 30 day supply if the patient can't get into the office before they run out of medication. Literally takes 10 seconds or less.

Agreed. Patients never call me personally, but the nurse sends me a message either via text or EMR about what the patient is asking. The most annoying ones asking a question that either warrants a visit or hospitalization. At first, I was young and stupid and tried to talk with the patient about what to do blah blah blah. But I've come to realize the truth; you keep doing this, you're going to be stepped on and taken advantage of and be burnt out. Now I don't even bother. I'm not going to have a verbal conversation about diagnosing or managing something without seeing the patient. End of discussion. The ED is just down the street.
Do you need refills? Have you seen me in the past 3-6 months?
 
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It's not to never have to work again, it's putting yourself in a position to have the same lifestyle even if your salary were to cut in half. The plan is simple. I made 67k as a PGY-3. Now I am living on on 100k/yr and invest the rest. When student loan payment resume, I will add 36k just to account for student loan payment (136-140k).

Just going to point out for others that if you were to work hard and put away $750k in savings over 5 years (aka worked extra shifts/nights as a hospitalist to hit $400-450k, saved $150k/yr and lived like a resident), let it compound for 31 years (ages 36-67) at 6% (below the average inflation adjusted, dividend reinvested S&P 500 returns from 1925-2022) you'll end up with >$4mm. If you did nothing else but leave that money alone and never touched it. Compounding is very powerful. It often feels like people don't recognize that. So working part time after 5 years to cover living expenses is a lot more doable than people think depending on how they define quality of life and how expensive that definition happens to be.

Keeping expenses low is the key and this is also my “back up” if midlevels ruin crit care. I put away close to $1M in combined taxable and pre-tax accounts in my first 3 years post fellowship.
 
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Keeping expenses low is the key and this is also my “back up” if midlevels ruin crit care. I put away close to $1M in combined taxable and pre-tax accounts in my first 3 years post fellowship.
Midlevel will ruin both HM and CCM w/in ten years. HM will come first and then CCM.

~1M is in 3 yrs is very impressive!
 
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