Too late to switch to derm in 3rd year?

[Prodromo]

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I'm nearing the end of third year and have always planned on going into radiology. With recent events I'm getting a little nervous about my future specialty choice. I've been reading more about derm and it sounds interesting.

Is it too late for me to look into going into derm? I already had an elective in radiology this year so won't be able to rotate in it until 4th year. My stats are alright:

step 1: 265
honors in all preclinical courses and honors in the 5 rotations I've completed so far
one case report, 2 poster pubs, none in derm
AOA

Would it look shady if I decided on derm this late in the year? Would I be able to match? Do I have to do an elective early in fourth year in derm to have any chance? Thanks.

 

[swamprat]

lol @ alright stats

 

[Knocked Up]

I'm mirin

 

[ijn]

You can probably still do derm at mississippi, oklahoma, or west virginia, but you're really far behind the competition with those grades and step score. Most kids by now are first or second author in multiple derm journals and have at least 1 big name letter. Recommend you take step 2 ck early and score >275 to make up for lack of derm ECs.

 

[rodmichael82]

You can probably still do derm at mississippi, oklahoma, or west virginia, but you're really far behind the competition with those grades and step score. Most kids by now are first or second author in multiple derm journals. Recommend you take step 2 ck early and score >270 to make up for lack of derm ECs.

Behind or ahead?

 

[Bamfu]

🙄

 

[Prodromo]

You can probably still do derm at mississippi, oklahoma, or west virginia, but you're really far behind the competition with those grades and step score. Most kids by now are first or second author in multiple derm journals and have at least 1 big name letter. Recommend you take step 2 ck early and score >275 to make up for lack of derm ECs.

I made this thread because I was thinking that most students were so into derm from the beginning of med school that i'm in a bad position if I was to pursue it from here on out. Looks like I'm stuck with rads or test my luck with a few programs?

 

[Hemichordate]

I wonder what this guy's personality is like.

 

[Guillemot]

I wonder what this guy's personality is like.

Well, he honored his rotations so Id imagine hes well liked by residents and attendings. I could see it going either way for his classmates though. IE could be an obnoxious ass kisser, a gunner, etc.

 

[EMquest3]

I made this thread because I was thinking that most students were so into derm from the beginning of med school that i'm in a bad position if I was to pursue it from here on out. Looks like I'm stuck with rads or test my luck with a few programs?

You're more than fine. Just get involved now in a derm lab and make sure the derm chair and PD know you. My friend got interested in derm at the end of 3rd year. She got a great derm spot and I would bet her stats were similar to yours. The best thing going for her was that she really won over the faculty at our school and at her away.

 

[drotoman]

I'm nearing the end of third year and have always planned on going into radiology. With recent events I'm getting a little nervous about my future specialty choice. I've been reading more about derm and it sounds interesting.

Is it too late for me to look into going into derm? I already had an elective in radiology this year so won't be able to rotate in it until 4th year. My stats are alright:

step 1: 265
honors in all preclinical courses and honors in the 5 rotations I've completed so far
one case report, 2 poster pubs, none in derm
AOA

Would it look shady if I decided on derm this late in the year? Would I be able to match? Do I have to do an elective early in fourth year in derm to have any chance? Thanks.

Not too late. Your stats are good to go. Talk to your school's derm dept and get involved in research ASAP. It's totally doable to publish at least one case report before fall. If you're a well liked person, definitely do an away or two.

 

[ijn]

I made this thread because I was thinking that most students were so into derm from the beginning of med school that i'm in a bad position if I was to pursue it from here on out. Looks like I'm stuck with rads or test my luck with a few programs?

lawl. i don't get how you can get such high scores but be so unaware of your position relative to ~97% of medical students.

you do know that you can get into any field with zero research or interest in it before 4th year, right? If you did 2-3 ortho sub-is as your beginning 4th year electives you could even match into that. you have 4-5 months to get **** in order. make sure you get a derm home program elective and then 1-2 away electives to get a few letters before ERAS downloads start on september 15th. yeah you're not going to the top tier derm program without a sufficient research pedigree, but guess what... the guy from mass gen going into private practice derm will probably make the same salary as the guy who graduates from alabama. medicare doesn't reimburse more based on where your residency was done.

 

[buccsmf1]

lawl. i don't get how you can get such high scores but be so unaware of your position relative to ~97% of medical students..

because these people are full of ****. for some reason, people get their rocks off by posting amazing stats on SDN and calling them "alright." you're smart enough to do better on a test than 97% of some of the smartest people in the world.... but not smart enough to know you did will on said test? give me a break.

 

[Prodromo]

A lot of haters in this thread right now. I was under the impression that my stats were normal for derm applicants and that if I hadn't been interested since med school began I wouldn't have anything to differentiate me from other applicants. Sorry to stir up such anger lol

 

[NickNaylor]

A lot of haters in this thread right now. I was under the impression that my stats were normal for derm applicants and that if I hadn't been interested since med school began I wouldn't have anything to differentiate me from other applicants. Sorry to stir up such anger lol

so jelly uh dem nums

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

[ijn]

A lot of haters in this thread right now. I was under the impression that my stats were normal for derm applicants and that if I hadn't been interested since med school began I wouldn't have anything to differentiate me from other applicants. Sorry to stir up such anger lol

50% of derm applicants don't have AOA and don't honor all of their clerkships. 95% of them have a Step 1 score of less than 265. Sure. You're an average derm applicant that has nothing to differentiate you from the other applicants.

 

[username456789]

50% of successful derm applicants don't have AOA

Fixed.

 

[ijn]

Fixed.

Oops. Yeah, 50% of matched US seniors and 56% for all US senior applicants.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Enjoy the nut hugging on your stats, OP. Get some derm research and you're golden. You are already probably pretty set with your current stuff.

I do think people should be forced to read the NRMP match statistics before they essentially post a 'what are my chances' thread.

 

[Dral]

OP is correct in assuming he/she is not a special flower with those stats. Tons of ppl applying for Derm have those.

You'll get interviews, but you need LORs, connections, and personality (not obnoxious) to get a spot. Work on those now. If you want to match don't EVER mention you are switching at least in part b/c of the crappy Rads job market. That would be the nail in the coffin, so to speak.

If I were hypothetically interviewing you knowing that, I'd already be ranking you lower than the ppl with similar stats whom I at least thought were in it from day one for the skin and not the lifestyle.

Lot's of ppl are in it for that (lifestyle)... I'm not kidding myself. However any little thing you do to give places a reason to rank you lower, will affect you...whether that's ppl finding out you are jumping ship on Rads or you picking your nose on interview day.

 

[JP2740]

OP is correct in assuming he/she is not a special flower with those stats. Tons of ppl applying for Derm have those.

You'll get interviews, but you need LORs, connections, and personality (not obnoxious) to get a spot. Work on those now. If you want to match don't EVER mention you are switching at least in part b/c of the crappy Rads job market. That would be the nail in the coffin, so to speak.

If I were hypothetically interviewing you knowing that, I'd already be ranking you lower than the ppl with similar stats whom I at least thought were in it from day one for the skin and not the lifestyle.

Lot's of ppl are in it for that (lifestyle)... I'm not kidding myself. However any little thing you do to give places a reason to rank you lower, will affect you...whether that's ppl finding out you are jumping ship on Rads or you picking your nose on interview day.

Day one for the skin lmao. Are you kidding me? Get real. The grand grand grand grand majority of people going for derm are in it for the lifestyle.

 

[Dral]

Day one for the skin lmao. Are you kidding me? Get real. The grand grand grand grand majority of people going for derm are in it for the lifestyle.

You miss my point. You have to interview and make us believe you're in it for the skin. Of course every person is at least partially in for lifestyle, but it's taboo to discuss it when you're interviewing.

"At least thought" does not equal "know they truly are"

 

[link2swim06]

Well, he honored his rotations so Id imagine hes well liked by residents and attendings. I could see it going either way for his classmates though. IE could be an obnoxious ass kisser, a gunner, etc.

Meh honoring rotations for a lot of schools isn't based on 'being liked.'

At my school everyone gets essentially the same subjective grade between 85-90% (which is equiv to high pass). The shelf score determines everyone's final score.

 

[alpinism]

You miss my point. You have to interview and make us believe you're in it for the skin. Of course every person is at least partially in for lifestyle, but it's taboo to discuss it when you're interviewing.

"At least thought" does not equal "know they truly are"

Lol are they interviewing for a derm residency or for a porno? 🙄

 

[Dral]

Lol are they interviewing for a derm residency or for a porno? 🙄

Probably easier to get into porn.

 

[JP2740]

You miss my point. You have to interview and make us believe you're in it for the skin. Of course every person is at least partially in for lifestyle, but it's taboo to discuss it when you're interviewing.

"At least thought" does not equal "know they truly are"

Mostly*

 

[Hemichordate]

Probably easier to get into porn.

But you won't make the big bucks 😀

 

[Hemichordate]

Speaking of derm, does derm residency have the easiest hours out of all the specialties?

 

[Dral]

Mostly*

Meh, I'm already in so I have nothing to hide. I honestly couldn't really see myself doing much else in medicine and really love what I'm doing. The lifestyle is really nice, but definitely not mostly why I'm here.



'Easy' is a relative term. I've had some pretty taxing periods of consults/call.

However, in general it's nothing compared to something like ortho or the like. The out of work studying can get pretty brutal at times.

 

[JP2740]

Speaking of derm, does derm residency have the easiest hours out of all the specialties?

They don't exactly have to learn that much. Or, if they do, the practicing physicians definitely don't show it. I think a linear curve going down represents the knowledge of dermatologists as they practice and just let that arrogance fester in them.

 

[drotoman]

Derm is an "easy" residency? Hardly. A few derm residents I know of spend a lot of time reading and doing histopath outside their regular work hours. They also get quite a few consults. Also you would have to have a substantial knowledge of IM. But still I would consider derm a "lifestyle" specialty in a relative sense.

 

[username456789]

They don't exactly have to learn that much. Or, if they do, the practicing physicians definitely don't show it. I think a linear curve going down represents the knowledge of dermatologists as they practice and just let that arrogance fester in them.

Ignoring the obvious (and poor) attempt at trolling, Derm residency involves more outside studying/reading than just about any other residency (Path and Rads are likely similar).

But stuff like what JP2740 is saying is what people say to try to make themselves feel better about their own poor life choices. He can't even attempt to hide his jealousy, but the vitriol is pretty hilarious.

 

[username456789]

Speaking of derm, does derm residency have the easiest hours out of all the specialties?

The hours are not as bad as surgery, that's for sure. At my program, didactics go from 7am-8am, then clinic from 8am-5pm, then evening rounds with an attending from 5-7pm or so.

Then home to study. Off on weekends, which is then spent studying more. Specialties like Derm involve a disproportionate amount of time spent outside the clinic/hospital reading/studying. I don't mind the idea of that, but for some they'd rather spend their weekends/nights in the OR or rounding on the floors. I'd much rather be at home to read during that time.

 

[Dral]

They don't exactly have to learn that much.

You don't know what you're talking about in regards to that. Flat out.

My first year alone we've had to read:
http://www.amazon.com/Dermatology-2...&qid=1365418841&sr=8-1&keywords=bolognia+derm

Yes, that's 2776 pages. We read it cover to cover.

We also had to read a 400+ page dermpath book, and another 300+ book on Genodermatoses (relatively easy reading, NOT easy memorization though).



You're entitled to your opinions (although as GuyWhoDoesStuff already pointed out, they come off as extremely butthurt).

 

[Guillemot]

Meh honoring rotations for a lot of schools isn't based on 'being liked.'

At my school everyone gets essentially the same subjective grade between 85-90% (which is equiv to high pass). The shelf score determines everyone's final score.

Wish I went to your school. Some of the ass kissing that takes place here makes me want to puke.

 

[disorder]

good luck scrambling into FM with those stats.

 

[kwel]

OP, if you're serious about derm I think you're biggest obstacle is lowering your standards. With that CV I'm sure everyone told you how great of a rads program you could match into. If you switch to derm now I think you still have a shot at a program, but it's not going to be NEARLY as prestigious as the rads program you could've matched into. Derm is far more competitive and it seems like the most you've done so far is read up a little on the field, but haven't really done a rotation, pursued research, talked to faculty, etc. For a lifestyle specialty like derm I think it's probably really important to be able to convince interviewers that you're truly passionate about the field, which is why so many people place such emphasis on having an early interest in the field.

 

[JP2740]

Ignoring the obvious (and poor) attempt at trolling, Derm residency involves more outside studying/reading than just about any other residency (Path and Rads are likely similar).

But stuff like what JP2740 is saying is what people say to try to make themselves feel better about their own poor life choices. He can't even attempt to hide his jealousy, but the vitriol is pretty hilarious.

No, not a chance. My stats up to this point are more than good enough if I wanted to pursue derm, which you couldn't convince me to do if you paid all of my debt off and handed me the keys to the best program in the country. There are some great ones out there though, I admit. My friend has HS and her doctor is extremely smart and really, really compassionate.You might be like that as some of the other people in this thread, but I have no problem generalizing and saying that the majority are arrogant pricks, don't know much about medicine, sorry.

Most uninteresting field in medicine. I didn't realize how much a derm problem can affect somoene until my bud got HS. Opened my eyes a ton. I thought about pursuing derm during year 1 and couldn't wrap myself around doing that for the rest of my life. Mainly having to call the derms I've been exposed to as my colleagues.

 

[hewmanoid]

No, not a chance. My stats up to this point are more than good enough if I wanted to pursue derm, which you couldn't convince me to do if you paid all of my debt off and handed me the keys to the best program in the country. There are some great ones out there though, I admit. My friend has HS and her doctor is extremely smart and really, really compassionate.You might be like that as some of the other people in this thread, but I have no problem generalizing and saying that the majority are arrogant pricks, don't know much about medicine, sorry.

Most uninteresting field in medicine. I didn't realize how much a derm problem can affect somoene until my bud got HS. Opened my eyes a ton. I thought about pursuing derm during year 1 and couldn't wrap myself around doing that for the rest of my life. Mainly having to call the derms I've been exposed to as my colleagues.

It is quite clear based on your posts that your claims about derm as a specialty in general are rather unfounded. Calling it the "most uninteresting" field further reflects this fact. HS was a nice intro to the field for you, but it is by no means representative of what dermatologists can do. Wait till you suffer from let's say psoriasis or mycosis fungoides, and you'll really appreciate the full spectrum of patient care they give.

Btw saying your stats are "more than good enough" for derm doesn't mean a thing to me. When I hear a statement like that, things that come to mind are 260+ on Step I&II, AOA, 6+ publications...etc, not counting great LORs, excellent interviewing skills and a well-like personality. I hope you do fit into this category, but I wouldn't know until you disclose your stats so that we can assess the objectivity of your statement.

Don't get me wrong. I would not ever want to go into derm because I'm very procedure-oriented but I still have an appreciation for the field and how much impact they have on patients' lives.

 

[tiedyeddog]

No, not a chance. My stats up to this point are more than good enough if I wanted to pursue derm

Says the guy who hasn't even taken Step 1?

 

[JP2740]

Says the guy who hasn't even taken Step 1?

up to this point

I'm not gonna get douchey and talk about my class rank. It doesn't matter. I'm not talking the way I do because I'm jealous and wish deep down I can be a dermatologist. I'm going for ENT, it's also competitive. Maybe not on the same level. Either way, the dermatologists I've met and heard about (from family, friends - patients, and med student friends going into the derm) just sound way too complacent and arrogant. It's kind of to the point where all that extensive knowledge, someone pointed out in this thread, they learn in residency goes to zilch.

 

[billybob746]

up to this point

I'm not gonna get douchey and talk about my class rank. It doesn't matter. I'm not talking the way I do because I'm jealous and wish deep down I can be a dermatologist. I'm going for ENT, it's also competitive. Maybe not on the same level. Either way, the dermatologists I've met and heard about (from family, friends - patients, and med student friends going into the derm) just sound way too complacent and arrogant. It's kind of to the point where all that extensive knowledge, someone pointed out in this thread, they learn in residency goes to zilch.

LOL, nobody cares about your preclinical class rank bro. congrats tho, that must make you feel real good inside.

 

[ophthope]

I made this thread because I was thinking that most students were so into derm from the beginning of med school that i'm in a bad position if I was to pursue it from here on out. Looks like I'm stuck with rads or test my luck with a few programs?

Either you're trolling, or someone lied to you. You still have time to get your stuff together with those stats. Just do some derm sub-Is and a research rotation if possible. Get your name on some case reports, get involved. Your step 1 score is in the top 3% of scores nationwide, do you really think you'll be outmatched all that often even in derm? The average matched derm applicant has a score that is in the high 240s. Your score is so high that you're more than 1 standard deviation above the mean for matched derm applicants. Get a grip on reality here; do some research, hustle for LORs, make some connections.

You miss my point. You have to interview and make us believe you're in it for the skin. Of course every person is at least partially in for lifestyle, but it's taboo to discuss it when you're interviewing.

"At least thought" does not equal "know they truly are"

Weird, in Ophtho everyone freely admits that the lifestyle (outside of residency) is attractive. You wouldn't want that to be the sole focus of the interview, but it comes up occasionally and everyone agrees that having less hectic call is a good thing and a nice benefit of the field.

 

[Kaputt]

up to this point

I'm not gonna get douchey and talk about my class rank. It doesn't matter. I'm not talking the way I do because I'm jealous and wish deep down I can be a dermatologist. I'm going for ENT, it's also competitive. Maybe not on the same level. Either way, the dermatologists I've met and heard about (from family, friends - patients, and med student friends going into the derm) just sound way too complacent and arrogant. It's kind of to the point where all that extensive knowledge, someone pointed out in this thread, they learn in residency goes to zilch.

Until you take Step 1 you have no stats.

 

[JP2740]

Until you take Step 1 you have no stats.

u right u right. Thanks for the motivation bro. Either way class rank pretty much=AOA at my school, which is important. And I didn't mention it (or ever on the boards) until someone had to kick in their defense mechanism just because someone doesn't like their field they think I must be jealous.

Like I said above, my friend's derm is incredible. There's just not a lot of derms who care enough to get on that level or stay there. Anyway I gotta study for step so I can come back and brag on SDN and boost my ego.

 

[John Lannister]

This has really turned into an sdn thread. Well done.

 

[Dral]

Like I said above, my friend's derm is incredible. There's just not a lot of derms who care enough to get on that level or stay there. Anyway I gotta study for step so I can come back and brag on SDN and boost my ego.

That is quite the obnoxious blanket statement. Just how many Dermatologists do you know? 🙄

 

[pandoraone]

That is quite the obnoxious blanket statement. Just how many Dermatologists do you know? 🙄

Have you really not paid attention? He knows his friends dermatologist and then he has (as a preclinical medical student) interacted with a couple of dermatologists; as such, he is right to characterize the whole field.

I don't know how you matched derm if you don't even know that you can generalize entire fields based off of a few individuals. No wonder he thinks derm residents are unintelligent.

This is all sarcastic - i feel that the derm is a great field and am considering it myself. This was in jest of the guy posting about derm without knowing shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

 

[Prodromo]

OP, if you're serious about derm I think you're biggest obstacle is lowering your standards. With that CV I'm sure everyone told you how great of a rads program you could match into. If you switch to derm now I think you still have a shot at a program, but it's not going to be NEARLY as prestigious as the rads program you could've matched into. Derm is far more competitive and it seems like the most you've done so far is read up a little on the field, but haven't really done a rotation, pursued research, talked to faculty, etc. For a lifestyle specialty like derm I think it's probably really important to be able to convince interviewers that you're truly passionate about the field, which is why so many people place such emphasis on having an early interest in the field.

This is a great point and something that I have considered. It's a really tough decision for me. Despite all of the arguing going on in this thread I am looking for actual advice. Thanks for the honest input.

 

[Dral]

Have you really not paid attention? He knows his friends dermatologist and then he has (as a preclinical medical student) interacted with a couple of dermatologists; as such, he is right to characterize the whole field.

I don't know how you matched derm if you don't even know that you can generalize entire fields based off of a few individuals. No wonder he thinks derm residents are unintelligent

👍

Go for it! If you haven't taken Step 1 yet, just try your best to knock it out of the park to keep your options open.


To OP, my advice about projecting a genuine interest stands. Research is kinda an expectation, so get working on at least some case reports or a clinical project. I can't overemphasize enough that who you know helps immensely. Try hard to get good meaningful letters from well known ppl who will go to bat for you. Meaningful letter means the letter makes you out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

In terms of prestige of program, don't sweat it. If you check out the Derm forum, you'll see a few times the general sentiment that getting in to a spot is what counts. While some ppl care about pedigree, the general thought seems to be that most or all programs will train you well and in the end you're still a Derm who was trained well somewhere. The key is finding the program where you fit in and are able to best develop your personal interests in the field.