Top 10 2010 Us News

[n3opologist]

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Two years ago at this time I asked how some places with great hospitals etc and great reps that are very selective (Mayo) can be ranked low. I was told that in general, some medical schools are "partners" with hospitals while others "own" their hospitals. The difference I was told was that partners dont have any of that grant money counted toward rankings, even though the way the partnership usually works is that those hospitals have attendings teaching their students.

Someone asked me about this the other day. I wasnt quite sure what to reference. Any idea what this deal is and where this info is?

Thanks

This is 100% true. In order for the NIH money to count towards the total considered by USNews in the rankings, the facility (hospital, research institute, etc) must be owned by the institution.

I just learned about this from a member of the USC Board of Trustees. USC had been affiliated with two hospitals (Norris Cancer Hospital and the University Hospital) which worked out on paper to be basically a lease. In the past, all the NIH money brought in by these institutions wasn't counted in the "total" used by USNews. In addition to buying these hospitals to have full control over them, many members on the board were in agreement that the increase in USNews ranking wouldn't be a bad thing. It'll be interesting to see the jump in rankings in exactly one year.

 

[ButImLETired]

This is 100% true. In order for the NIH money to count towards the total considered by USNews in the rankings, the facility (hospital, research institute, etc) must be owned by the institution.

I just learned about this from a member of the USC Board of Trustees. USC had been affiliated with two hospitals (Norris Cancer Hospital and the University Hospital) which worked out on paper to be basically a lease. In the past, all the NIH money brought in by these institutions wasn't counted in the "total" used by USNews. In addition to buying these hospitals to have full control over them, many members on the board were in agreement that the increase in USNews ranking wouldn't be a bad thing. It'll be interesting to see the jump in rankings in exactly one year.

So you're telling me that Harvard Med has 1.2 billion dollars in research funds of its own right without any of the partners? That's absurdly amazing. Where do they get all the money if not NIH grants for MGH, Brigham, etc?

 

[physiologyguy]

It was originally explained to me that Cornell simply worked with MSKCC and HSS, but was not an official affiliate (or maybe owner was the word?). I also was told something about "owning" the hospitals, as was mentioned about USC. I was told that, as an example, Harvard owns its hosptitals? Not sure what all that means, though. Seems like no one really knows...?

 

[BaylorLion]

The schools self-report the funding to themselves and their affiliates, so it's up to each school to determine what counts and doesn't count.

 

[riceman04]

riceman04, Dude, talking about obsessions, have you ever thought about "deaccessorizing" your posts..?

I did not realize that amounted to an obsession with emoticons and color!

 

[copingmethods]

So you're telling me that Harvard Med has 1.2 billion dollars in research funds of its own right without any of the partners? That's absurdly amazing. Where do they get all the money if not NIH grants for MGH, Brigham, etc?

No, that figure definitely includes the hospitals. According to NIH (2005), HMS alone received ~$160 million, MGH $290 million, BWH $250 million, BIDMC $120 million, Dana-Farber $115 million, and Children's Boston $100 million. That together is a little over a billion, and it may have gone up since 2005.

I can't imagine that Harvard receives $200 million from the NIH, and then spends a billion of its own money to fund research.

 

[witness23]

harvard is crazy. they lost 8 billion dollars of its endowment last year because of the recession. theres like 2 schools that have more than 8 billion in endowment total (harvard 40 bil).

the harvard hospital at dubai probably wont be too successful. that city is done.

 

[witness23]

you guys hear about the high school junior who is going to skip the senior year of high school to play ball in europe?

what would you do? college or play pro ball abroad, get paid

just because i love to talk to myself -

this kid, jeremy tyler will get his US high school diploma online while playing professional ball over europe

the internet is pretty wild. first regular online courses (i thought that was sick), online videoconferencing lectures, online bachelor's, online mba, online mph, online mba, and now online high school.

online MD degrees, make it happen.

 

[MD13]

This is 100% true. In order for the NIH money to count towards the total considered by USNews in the rankings, the facility (hospital, research institute, etc) must be owned by the institution.

Has this always been the policy or is this new this year?

 

[copingmethods]

Has this always been the policy or is this new this year?

Someone earlier said that it's self-reported, so the schools include what they think should be included. E.g. Harvard - they include the NIH money that goes to their affiliated hospitals, which they do not own.

 

[mmmcdowe]

So you're telling me that Harvard Med has 1.2 billion dollars in research funds of its own right without any of the partners? That's absurdly amazing. Where do they get all the money if not NIH grants for MGH, Brigham, etc?

It's quite simple really. Harvard invented the internet. Every time you log into SDN a gold coin appears in their Treasury.

 

[BaylorLion]

Do any of you have online access? If so, could you PM me the full list of internal medicine rankings? Thanks.

 

[thegetupkid]

i'm a triathloner, but this video is still pretty damn funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns6YSvCsVJM

 

[ChubbyChaser]

i'm a triathloner, but this video is still pretty damn funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns6YSvCsVJM

**** that...anyone can go out and play a pickup game of baseball..but most cant go out there and finish a triathlon.😀

 

[rocketbooster]

has anyone compared the statistics of one school from this year to that of last year?

I'm looking at one of them right now. while I can't figure out how to look at last year's rankings, I KNOW for a FACT that the at least some of these numbers are 5 years old. based on the "Fall 2008" #s, this school had 47 ppl off the waitlist. I have the exact # of ppl off the waitlist of this school for the last 5 years because the school sent it to me since I'm on the waitlist now for this year. The last few years have had under 10 off the waitlist. it says in 2005 there were 47 off it. so WTF, US News used OLD DATA and simply updated it with a 2008 admissions tag!

can anyone else confirm similar misleading reporting?

 

[DrQuack247]

Do any of you have online access? If so, could you PM me the full list of medical school rankings? Thanks.

Include me while you're at it.

Thanks



If you have the subscription, there's a pdf file you can download located at the bottom of the page.

 

[loomis]

So you're telling me that Harvard Med has 1.2 billion dollars in research funds of its own right without any of the partners? That's absurdly amazing. Where do they get all the money if not NIH grants for MGH, Brigham, etc?

this is unfortunately a total slight of hand.....HMS includes ALL of it's affiliated hospitals......on its own HMS is very weak (admin wise).....unlike other med schools like stanford, hopkins.....HMS does not own it's own hospital....in fact MGH and brigham (partners health) essentially does its own thing and because it's such a revenue beast, they really doesn't give a s**t about the HMS dean's input into its workings. this is very different from universities that own their own hospitals. if places like cornell included their affiliates (like sloan kettereing/rock for cornell).....it would hugely impact their NIH dollars and bump the rankings up significantly. without including the affiliates, HMS's actual NIH would be on a much smaller level and ranking wise, would probably be below hopkins.

 

[SDN2013]

this is unfortunately a total slight of hand.....HMS includes ALL of it's affiliated hospitals......on its own HMS is very weak (admin wise).....unlike other med schools like stanford, hopkins.....HMS does not own it's own hospital....in fact MGH and brigham (partners health) essentially does its own thing and because it's such a revenue beast, they really doesn't give a s**t about the HMS dean's input into its workings. this is very different from universities that own their own hospitals. if places like cornell included their affiliates (like sloan kettereing/rock for cornell).....it would hugely impact their NIH dollars and bump the rankings up significantly. without including the affiliates, HMS's actual NIH would be on a much smaller level and ranking wise, would probably be below hopkins.

harvard itself is in fact not even top 20. But I don't see anything wrong with adding its affiliated hospitals if their students can do research there.

 

[SDN2013]

NIH funding awarded to med schools:


Rank Institution City State SOM Grand Total for 2008
1 JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE BALTIMORE MARYLAND $422,152,588
2 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO SCH OF MED SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA $394,913,990
3 UNIV OF PENNSYLVANIA SCH OF MEDICINE PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA $366,095,869
4 WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE ST. LOUIS MISSOURI $350,210,768
5 YALE UNIV SCHOOL OF MED NEW HAVEN CONNECTICUT $328,333,634
6 DUKE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE DURHAM NORTH CAROLINA $317,387,064
7 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN MEDICAL SCHOOL ANN ARBOR MICHIGAN $297,057,553
8 UNIV OF PITTSBURGH SCH OF MEDICINE PITTSBURGH PENNSYLVANIA $285,956,633
9 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA $280,546,660
10 UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON SCH OF MEDICINE SEATTLE WASHINGTON $270,910,345
11 VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE NASHVILLE TENNESSEE $267,265,329
12 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO LA JOLLA CALIFORNIA $261,879,956
13 STANFORD UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE STANFORD CALIFORNIA $246,680,949
14 UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA SCH OF MED CHAPEL HILL NORTH CAROLINA $227,849,224
15 COLUMBIA UNIV COL OF PHYSICIANS & SURGEONS NEW YORK NEW YORK $227,732,309
16 BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE HOUSTON TEXAS $210,936,239
17 EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE ATLANTA GEORGIA $202,166,975
18 UNIV OF CHICAGO PRITZKER SCH OF MEDICINE CHICAGO ILLINOIS $183,521,244
19 MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE OF NYU NEW YORK NEW YORK $170,633,502
20 MAYO CLINIC COLL MED ROCHESTER MINNESOTA $168,747,161
21 HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL BOSTON MASSACHUSETTS $162,475,909
22 UNIV OF COLORADO HLTH SCI CTR SCH OF MED AURORA COLORADO $156,885,614
23 UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS SW MED CTR/DALLAS DALLAS TEXAS $152,887,971
24 UNIV OF ROCHESTER SCH MED & DENT ROCHESTER NEW YORK $147,632,075
25 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA SCH OF MEDICINE BIRMINGHAM ALABAMA $146,716,772
26 CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIV SCH OF MED CLEVELAND OHIO $144,526,471
27 NORTHWESTERN UNIV SCH OF MEDICINE CHICAGO ILLINOIS $140,616,111
28 OREGON HLTH SCIS UNIV SCH OF MEDICINE PORTLAND OREGON $139,177,153
29 UNIV OF MINNESOTA MINNEAPOLIS MED SCH MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA $138,279,612
30 UNIVERSITY OF IOWA COLLEGE OF MEDICINE IOWA CITY IOWA $137,785,375
31 UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA SCH OF MEDICINE CHARLOTTESVILLE VIRGINIA $130,137,235
32 ALBERT EINSTEIN COL OF MED YESHIVA UNIV NEW YORK NEW YORK $129,880,706
33 UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SCH OF MEDICINE BALTIMORE MARYLAND $128,814,798
34 NEW YORK UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE NEW YORK NEW YORK $121,080,656
35 UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MEDICAL SCHOOL MADISON WISCONSIN $120,272,817
36 UNIV OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SCH OF MED LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA $113,967,964
37 UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS MEDICAL SCH WORCESTER MASSACHUSETTS $113,395,345
38 CORNELL UNIVERSITY MEDICAL COLLEGE NEW YORK NEW YORK $107,723,349
39 INDIANA UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE INDIANAPOLIS INDIANA $102,082,928
40 BOSTON UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE BOSTON MASSACHUSETTS $101,308,063
41 UNIV OF TX MED BR/MED SCH AT GALVESTON GALVESTON TEXAS $94,946,407
42 WAKE FOREST UNIV SCHOOL OF MEDICINE WINSTON-SALEM NORTH CAROLINA $93,096,071
43 UNIV OF CINCINNATI COL OF MEDICINE CINCINATTI OHIO $91,378,171
44 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN MILWAUKEE WISCONSIN $90,598,403
45 UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCH OF MEDICINE MIAMI FLORIDA $87,798,435
46 U OF TX HLTH SCI CTR SAN ANTONIO MED SCH SAN ANTONIO TEXAS $85,128,456
47 UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS COL OF MEDICINE CHICAGO ILLINOIS $83,636,231
48 MED UNIV OF SOUTH CAROLINA COL OF MED CHARLESTON SOUTH CAROLINA $82,360,670
49 OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY COL OF MEDICINE COLUMBUS OHIO $82,313,900
50 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA DAVIS COL OF MED DAVIS CALIFORNIA $81,907,645
51 UNIV OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE CAL COL OF MED IRVINE CALIFORNIA $80,288,442
52 UNIVERSITY OF UTAH COL OF MEDICINE SALT LAKE CITY UTAH $80,041,027
53 U OF TEXAS HLTH SCI CTR HOUSTON MED SCH HOUSTON TEXAS $72,779,118
54 DARTMOUTH MEDICAL SCHOOL HANOVER NEW HAMPSHIRE $70,152,624
55 UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY COL OF MEDICINE LEXINGTON KENTUCKY $67,073,879
56 VIRGINIA COMMONWEALTH UNIV MED COL OF VA RICHMOND VIRGINIA $62,976,664
57 JEFFERSON MEDICAL COLLEGE OF TJU PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA $62,583,370
58 GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE WASHINGTON DIST OF COL $60,218,396
59 UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA COL OF MEDICINE GAINESVILLE FLORIDA $58,341,619
60 UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA COL OF MEDICINE TUCSON ARIZONA $53,714,301
61 UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT COL OF MEDICINE BURLINGTON VERMONT $53,702,176
62 WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE DETROIT MICHIGAN $52,339,733
63 BROWN UNIVERSITY MEDICAL SCHOOL PROVIDENCE RHODE ISLAND $52,288,908
64 UNIV OF CONNECTICUT HLTH CTR SCH OF MED FARMINGTON CONNECTICUT $48,624,177
65 UNIV OF MED & DENT OF N J/ N J MED SCH NEWARK NEW JERSEY $46,910,753
66 PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIV COL OF MEDICINE HERSHEY PENNSYLVANIA $45,345,599
67 UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS SCH OF MEDICINE KANSAS CITY KANSAS $44,729,331
68 UNIV OF MED & DENT OF N J/ R W J MED SCH PISCATAWAY NEW JERSEY $42,916,542
69 UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE SCH OF MEDICINE LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY $42,236,004
70 UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO SCH OF MEDICINE ALBUQUERQUE NEW MEXICO $41,091,963
71 UNIV OF ARKANSAS FOR MEDICAL SCIENCES LITTLE ROCK ARKANSAS $40,891,621
72 TUFTS UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE BOSTON MASSACHUSETTS $40,375,791
73 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF GEORGIA SCH OF MED AUGUSTA GEORGIA $39,955,545
74 SUNY STONY BROOK SCH OF MEDICINE STONY BROOK NEW YORK $39,526,885
75 UNIV OF NEBRASKA COLLEGE OF MEDICINE OMAHA NEBRASKA $36,680,945
76 UNIV OF TENNESSEE COL OF MEDICINE MEMPHIS TENNESSEE $34,482,868
77 TEMPLE UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA $33,795,916
78 UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA COL OF MEDICINE OKLAHOMA CITY OKLAHOMA $32,437,977
79 LOUISIANA STATE UNIV HSC NEW ORLEANS NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA $26,445,451
80 UNIV OF HAWAII SCH OF MEDICINE HONOLULU HAWAII $26,285,284
81 RUSH UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER CHICAGO ILLINOIS $25,547,214
82 UNIV OF MISSOURI COLUMBIA SCH OF MED COLUMBIA MISSOURI $22,324,673
83 SUNY HLTH SCIS CTR BROOKLYN COL OF MED NEW YORK NEW YORK $21,248,719
84 MEHARRY MEDICAL COLLEGE SCH OF MEDICINE NASHVILLE TENNESSEE $21,230,114
85 DREXEL UNIV COL OF MEDICINE PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA $20,839,673
86 SUNY BUFFALO SCH OF MEDICINE BUFFALO NEW YORK $20,776,751
87 GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV SCH OF MEDICINE WASHINGTON DIST OF COL $19,697,391
88 UNIVERSITY OF PUERTO RICO SCH OF MED SAN JUAN PUERTO RICO $19,323,434
89 MOREHOUSE SCH OF MEDICINE ATLANTA GEORGIA $19,112,929
90 TULANE UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA $18,760,531
91 SUNY HLTH SCIS CTR SYRACUSE COL OF MED SYRACUSE NEW YORK $18,419,931
92 NEW YORK MEDICAL COLLEGE VALHALLA NEW YORK $16,943,093
93 WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE MORGANTOWN WEST VIRGINIA $16,525,690
94 UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA COL OF MED TAMPA FLORIDA $14,927,158
95 LOYOLA UNVERSITY MAYWOOD ILLINOIS $14,477,142
96 ST LOUIS UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE ST. LOUIS MISSOURI $14,188,515
97 HOWARD UNIV COL OF MEDICINE WASHINGTON DIST OF COL $12,809,706
98 UNIV OF MISSISSIPPI SCH OF MEDICINE JACKSON MISSISSIPPI $12,381,897
99 TEXAS A & M UNIV COL OF MEDICINE COLLEGE STATION TEXAS $12,237,572
100 ALBANY MEDICAL COLLEGE OF UNION UNIV ALBANY NEW YORK $11,463,823
101 LOUISIANA STATE UNIV HSC SHREVEPORT SHREVEPORT LOUISIANA $11,292,984
102 UNIV OF SOUTH DAKOTA SIOUX FALLS SOUTH DAKOTA $11,044,942
103 UNIV OF NEVADA SCH OF MEDICINE RENO NEVADA $9,750,442
104 UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH ALABAMA SCH OF MED MOBILE ALABAMA $9,549,201
105 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF OHIO AT TOLEDO TOLEDO OHIO $9,419,773
106 UNIV OF NORTH DAKOTA SCH OF MEDICINE GRAND FORKS NORTH DAKOTA $8,713,692
107 LOMA LINDA UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE LOMA LINDA CALIFORNIA $8,398,052
108 WRIGHT STATE UNIVERSITY SCH OF MEDICINE DAYTON OHIO $7,636,627
109 CREIGHTON UNIV SCH OF MEDICINE OMAHA NEBRASKA $7,558,879
110 MICHIGAN STATE U COL OF HUMAN MEDICINE EAST LANSING MICHIGAN $7,405,922
111 UNIV OF SOUTH CAROLINA SCH OF MEDICINE COLUMBIA SOUTH CAROLINA $6,788,268
112 MARSHALL UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE HUNTINGTON WEST VIRGINIA $5,617,000
113 UNIVERSITY OF CENTRAL FLORIDA ORLANDO FLORIDA $5,505,477
114 FINCH UNIV OF HLTH SCIS CHICAGO MED SCH NORTH CHICAGO ILLINOIS $5,079,860
115 UNIV OF MISSOURI KANSAS CITY SCH OF MED KANSAS CITY MISSOURI $4,979,647
116 EAST CAROLINA UNIVERSITY SCH OF MED GREENVILLE NORTH CAROLINA $4,569,890
117 SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIV SP SCH OF MED SPRINGFIELD ILLINOIS $4,171,785
118 EAST TENNESSEE ST UNIV QUILLEN MED COL JOHNSON CITY TENNESSEE $4,136,193
119 PONCE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE PONCE PUERTO RICO $3,880,415
120 EASTERN VIRGINIA MED/SCH MED COL HAMP RD NORFOLK VIRGINIA $3,859,939
121 UNIVERSIDAD CENTRAL DEL CARIBE BAYAMÓN PUERTO RICO $3,259,026
122 TEXAS TECH UNIV HLTH SCIS CTR SCH OF MED LUBBOCK TEXAS $3,173,706
123 NORTHEASTERN OHIO UNIVS COLLEGE OF MED ROOTSTOWN OHIO $2,601,714
124 FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA $2,384,852
125 MERCER UNIV SCH OF MEDICINE MACON GEORGIA $1,209,306
126 FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY MIAMI FLORIDA $1,080,775
127 UNIV OF MINNESOTA DULUTH MEDICAL SCHOOL DULUTH MINNESOTA $148,431

Sum $10,985,474,968

Mean $86,499,803

Median $48,624,177

 

[blackbird11384]

You can't go by these raw rankings of NIH dollars because some schools of medicine have affiliated institutions that are a part of the university but not technically the medical school. For instance, Georgetown University has its Lombardi Cancer Center which brings in over $100 million in research grants per year, and it's literally 50 feet from the medical school. Thats how Georgetown is cited as having ~$185 million in NIH grants in the 2010 US News rankings. We aren't talking about an "affiliated hospital" that is not near the school. I'm sure the same can be said for a lot of the schools on this list, so in essence, take it with a HUGE grain of salt.

 

[witness23]

university of washington in seattle has ridiculous affiliations too

 

[VincentAdultman]

7 page threads on USNWR rankings proably tops the list of reasons why I troll the premed forum.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

7 page threads on USNWR rankings proably tops the list of reasons why I troll the premed forum.

or you could do the grown-up thing and just ignore these threads, but that'd be too mature for resident, huh?

 

[EternalUnderdog]

or you could do the grown-up thing and just ignore these threads, but that'd be too mature for resident, huh?

OH SNAP, YOU GOT HIM. Seriously though guys, we all know the only ppl who make fun of rankings simply go to low ranked schools, amirite?

Like me, I am going to end up going to UNC or Baylor and since I got rejected from Duke, I am going to bitch and moan about how these rankings mean nothing. If I was accepted though, you can bet I would defend the crap out of USNR.

(Your probably wondering.....is he trollin by saying UNC and Baylor are low ranked or is he trollin by pointing out how ppl who complain are at less competitive school......)

 

[BozoSparky]

this is unfortunately a total slight of hand.....HMS includes ALL of it's affiliated hospitals......on its own HMS is very weak (admin wise).....unlike other med schools like stanford, hopkins.....HMS does not own it's own hospital....in fact MGH and brigham (partners health) essentially does its own thing and because it's such a revenue beast, they really doesn't give a s**t about the HMS dean's input into its workings. this is very different from universities that own their own hospitals. if places like cornell included their affiliates (like sloan kettereing/rock for cornell).....it would hugely impact their NIH dollars and bump the rankings up significantly. without including the affiliates, HMS's actual NIH would be on a much smaller level and ranking wise, would probably be below hopkins.

are you saying that mgh and bwh are not really harvard hospitals?

 

[ButImLETired]

are you saying that mgh and bwh are not really harvard hospitals?

My understanding (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that MGH, BWH etc are affiliated with Harvard, but they're not part of Harvard. They aren't Harvard hospital. Their affiliation is purely one of convenience: a hospital benefits from an academic institution by gaining prestige and legitimacy, not to mention grant money for "faculty", while the academic institution gets to count the grant money on USNews and has a place to train its students. A place like MGH, too, attracts some pretty impressive doctors, who can become "Harvard faculty" in name and bring in more grant money that counts as Harvard money.
Lots of schools out there have one true university hospital and then a bunch of affiliates. For example, Emory has an Emory hospital (which is small and private, and the revenues of which are Emory money) and it's affiliated with Grady Hospital, which is where most students receive their training. Columbia and Cornell both own a piece of New York-Presbyterian, and Cornell is also affiliated with HSS and MSK, although Columbia students train there as well. I know Baylor people are all up in arms this year cause they slid in the ranks, due to a decision not to include one of their affiliated hospitals (MD-Anderson Cancer Center) in their NIH grant money.

Anyway, as I said, I think this is how it works.

 

[copingmethods]

My understanding (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that MGH, BWH etc are affiliated with Harvard, but they're not part of Harvard. They aren't Harvard hospital. Their affiliation is purely one of convenience: a hospital benefits from an academic institution by gaining prestige and legitimacy, not to mention grant money for "faculty", while the academic institution gets to count the grant money on USNews and has a place to train its students. A place like MGH, too, attracts some pretty impressive doctors, who can become "Harvard faculty" in name and bring in more grant money that counts as Harvard money.
Lots of schools out there have one true university hospital and then a bunch of affiliates. For example, Emory has an Emory hospital (which is small and private, and the revenues of which are Emory money) and it's affiliated with Grady Hospital, which is where most students receive their training. Columbia and Cornell both own a piece of New York-Presbyterian, and Cornell is also affiliated with HSS and MSK, although Columbia students train there as well. I know Baylor people are all up in arms this year cause they slid in the ranks, due to a decision not to include one of their affiliated hospitals (MD-Anderson Cancer Center) in their NIH grant money.

Anyway, as I said, I think this is how it works.

That all sounds right to me.

I don't think MD-Anderson should be included as part of Baylor's grant money, as it is the University of Texas MD-Anderson Cancer Center - it actually is part of the UT system.

 

[RoadRunner17]

My understanding (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that MGH, BWH etc are affiliated with Harvard, but they're not part of Harvard. They aren't Harvard hospital. Their affiliation is purely one of convenience: a hospital benefits from an academic institution by gaining prestige and legitimacy, not to mention grant money for "faculty", while the academic institution gets to count the grant money on USNews and has a place to train its students. A place like MGH, too, attracts some pretty impressive doctors, who can become "Harvard faculty" in name and bring in more grant money that counts as Harvard money.
Lots of schools out there have one true university hospital and then a bunch of affiliates. For example, Emory has an Emory hospital (which is small and private, and the revenues of which are Emory money) and it's affiliated with Grady Hospital, which is where most students receive their training. Columbia and Cornell both own a piece of New York-Presbyterian, and Cornell is also affiliated with HSS and MSK, although Columbia students train there as well. I know Baylor people are all up in arms this year cause they slid in the ranks, due to a decision not to include one of their affiliated hospitals (MD-Anderson Cancer Center) in their NIH grant money.

Anyway, as I said, I think this is how it works.

In the vein of House of God, all the "slurpers" out there love being affiliated with the "best names" in medicine. 😉

 

[ButImLETired]

An interesting point I think I read in another thread (?) is that Hospitals that are only affiliated with the med school tend to have less incentive to train the students and really teach. Again, according to this other poster, who's now a resident at one of the HMS affiliates, the focus is entirely on the residents while the students just kinda follow around and aren't allowed to do much, which is different from a hospital which is owned by a med school. I've worked at a Harvard hospital before and I did notice that the med students were largely left to their own devices and expected to figure things out on their own, but I figured that was just part of the Harvard "what it means to be a Harvard doctor" philosophy, and not that the residents just truly didn't care. Anyway, it's an interesting perspective on matters.

 

[VincentAdultman]

or you could do the grown-up thing and just ignore these threads, but that'd be too mature for resident, huh?

That's not as fun.

Continue with the e-penis constest.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

That's not as fun.

Continue with the e-penis constest.

I get told I'm a huge d!ck all the time... I bet I'll win this competition!!!!

 

[loomis]

My understanding (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that MGH, BWH etc are affiliated with Harvard, but they're not part of Harvard. They aren't Harvard hospital. Their affiliation is purely one of convenience: a hospital benefits from an academic institution by gaining prestige and legitimacy, not to mention grant money for "faculty", while the academic institution gets to count the grant money on USNews and has a place to train its students. A place like MGH, too, attracts some pretty impressive doctors, who can become "Harvard faculty" in name and bring in more grant money that counts as Harvard money.
Lots of schools out there have one true university hospital and then a bunch of affiliates. For example, Emory has an Emory hospital (which is small and private, and the revenues of which are Emory money) and it's affiliated with Grady Hospital, which is where most students receive their training. Columbia and Cornell both own a piece of New York-Presbyterian, and Cornell is also affiliated with HSS and MSK, although Columbia students train there as well. I know Baylor people are all up in arms this year cause they slid in the ranks, due to a decision not to include one of their affiliated hospitals (MD-Anderson Cancer Center) in their NIH grant money.

Anyway, as I said, I think this is how it works.

i guess strictly speaking MGH and brigham are not "harvard medical hospital" but to say they are not the essence of harvard med would be a big stretch. one could joke that harvard med wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for its affiliate hospitals 🙂 MGH and brigham have their own distinct history but for most of their history, they have been the cornerstone of harvard medical schools' clinical output. HMS students have always rotated at MGH....and most hms alums will agree that the general and brigham (and bidmc, and to a degree the mount) are what makes harvard med, harvard med. there was some talk about 10 years ago about consolidating all the harvard affiliate hospitals into a "harvard medical center" but MGH and brigham were such big guns in their own right that they didn't want to share the pot with the other smaller affiliates....so that's why you see the partners healthcare (MGH/brigham) and caregroup (BIDMC/mount auburn)...which are separate companies but all affiliated with HMS. if you split hairs, you could say that MGH and brigham are the crown jewels of the HMS network with BIDMC and to a much lesser degree the mount, as other major affiliates. most hms faculty/residents/students are aware of this weird system. again, i come from a medical center where the med school owned the hospital....it's a bit strange to see the hospitals essentially "rule" the med school.....in the sense that most of what we think of harvard med is really the research and clinical training that came out of the hospitals the med school is affiliated with rather than the med school itself.

 

[NedStark]

I know how much rankings are scoffed at on here, but I figured some people might like to know before they come out on thursday. Take these with a hint of suspicion, someone posted them on a forum, but I think they are accurate. I don't have any other rankings so don't ask me!

1Harvard

2Hopkins

3Penn

3WUSTL

5UCSF

6Duke

6Stanford

6UofWashington

6Yale

10Columbia

Strange how the rankings could change so much in just three years! I wonder what impacted them.

 

[DrCaliBoy]

Strange how the rankings could change so much in just three years! I wonder what impacted them.

lol bumped another old thread?