Top Private Schools Screwed

[PurpleLove]

I was reading an article the other day, and premeds at top schools are screwed. In most ivy league classes, the curve is generally around a B+/A-. For all other schools, the curve is around a B-. Depending on the school and students, the premeds at top schools (ivy league rejects) are ****ed and the other premeds (wide range) are good depending on how smart the pool of students are.

In conclusion, shouldn't there be a better standard?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[hoihaie]

why does that mean they are screwed?

 

[moop]

This makes no sense.

1. Generalization of Ivy curves is pretty accurate (I go to one). Generalization of curves at "top schools" is too general for that many schools. (e.g., Chicago deflates like that, but Duke does not.)
2. Schools that do deflate are generally known by adcoms to deflate. Won't help a 3.2, but definitely helps the 3.6s kicking around.
3. GPA is not everything. Top schools offer top ECs, and "Ivy rejects" (another bad assumption; not everyone wants attend an Ivy) will use those top ECs to make top holistic apps.
4. Check admissions stats from any top, non-Ivy UG and you'll see they are not f*cked.

Case closed, someone please shut the thread before Ivy v. non-Ivy war

/thread

 

[BamaNicole]

Ivy League rejects? You assume those who went to a top public school even tried to apply to an ivy. I never had the desire to go to one.

 

[moop]

Omg didn't recognize OP and actually answered seriously...much embarrass........

 

[shiftingmirage]

Some of the top schools like Harvard have had problems with grade inflation which was brought to light a few years ago.
I would imagine that most Adcoms are fairly up to date on these type of things.
Inconsistencies in grading is one of the reasons there are standardized tests like the MCAT. It's graded the same regardless of the institution one attends.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Omg didn't recognize OP and actually answered seriously...much embarrass........

She keeps changing that avatar.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think the problem with top tier students is their inability to troll with originality. It's always the same three things- "why should I be discriminated against for going to a Top 20," "why can URMs get in with lower scores than me and how is that fair," and "why do grants for low SES students exist?" Come on, troll with passion, with some fire and originality, because this is just embarrassing.

 

[aich]

I was reading an article the other day, and premeds at top schools are screwed. In most ivy league classes, the curve is generally around a B+/A-. For all other schools, the curve is around a B-. Depending on the school and students, the premeds at top schools (ivy league rejects) are ****** and the other premeds (wide range) are good depending on how smart the pool of students are.

In conclusion, shouldn't there be a better standard?

At my school, classes are curved to a 75 (C).

 

[aich]

That's why we have the MCAT. It would sure be nice if all schools graded and curved (something like percentiles or class ranking) the same way and then graduate admissions would simply be able to scale GPA's/Rankings between schools and disciplines.

 

[youmed]

I wonder why she does this.

 

[Mad Jack]

I wonder why she does this.

She appears to be a sad troll with no originality that is easily amused by doing the same thing over and over again. She's pretty much that kid that plays shooters with hacks on all day erryday and never gets bored. What a sad, loathsome existence.

 

[Reckoner]

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Threads like this from now on get the Arby's treatment.

 

[touchpause13]

This again?

 

[Ace-Co-A]

This again?

This thread has already broken SDN Commandment III. Yikes.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I was reading an article the other day, and premeds at top schools are screwed. In most ivy league classes, the curve is generally around a B+/A-. For all other schools, the curve is around a B-. Depending on the school and students, the premeds at top schools (ivy league rejects) are ****** and the other premeds (wide range) are good depending on how smart the pool of students are.

In conclusion, shouldn't there be a better standard?

A different school is the better standard for many of us.

 

[touchpause13]

The MCAT is the standard genius. The great equalizer. And it's not even true that ivies = harder to get As. Some grade inflate like a mug, some don't.

 

[khrisskhoras]

OP, the girl on your avatar gets uglier each time you change it. Just saying....

 

[Aerus]

There are many students at top schools who are good students and will be hard to beat.

But in my experience on SDN as well as real life, there are also a lot of the people who get into top schools who were just good at high school and really have very little ability competing in the college environment. I highly doubt that you'd cruise through a non top school if you're getting low 3.0's at a top school. A super lowly ranked, accepts 90% of applicants state school? Maybe. But most universities are NOT easy.

It's a huge world and you're not the brightest out there. Accept that fact, move on, and change your study habits or you're not going to med school.

 

[BamaNicole]

Here's some food for thought.....I had a former classmate that took chemistry over the summer at a local private catholic college. She said in her class were many students from Stanford. These kids were very high and mighty, thought the world of their academic work and never made below a B in their lives.

Well....that changed that summer when their butts got handed to them on a silver platter. They came from a top school to a lowly "easier" school....and couldn't pull a B. Other schools are not necessarily easier.

 

[ninjaman22]

OP, since you are always worrying about your GPA, you should start studying for the classes you are taking next semester.

 

[khrisskhoras]

Can someone just give OP an med school acceptance and end this nonsense?

 

[chillaxbro]

I was reading an article the other day, and premeds at top schools are screwed. In most ivy league classes, the curve is generally around a B+/A-. For all other schools, the curve is around a B-. Depending on the school and students, the premeds at top schools (ivy league rejects) are ****** and the other premeds (wide range) are good depending on how smart the pool of students are.

In conclusion, shouldn't there be a better standard?

PurpleLove you're an embarrassment to your school
At this point, I'm actively hoping you don't get into med school

 

[moop]

Here's some food for thought.....I had a former classmate that took chemistry over the summer at a local private catholic college. She said in her class were many students from Stanford. These kids were very high and mighty, thought the world of their academic work and never made below a B in their lives.

Well....that changed that summer when their butts got handed to them on a silver platter. They came from a top school to a lowly "easier" school....and couldn't pull a B. Other schools are not necessarily easier.

Meh, anecdotal stuff like this proves nothing. IME most top schoolers don't take classes weirdly at random private schools over the summer. Those students could've been some of the weaker students at Stanford, barely making Bs. Or they were taking it non-credit to get ahead before they actually took it at school the next semester (yes, some people do this). The possibilities go on and on.

Also, how many does your friend consider "many"? 3? 5? 10? Tiny sample size doesn't mean anything.

 

[moop]

Can someone just give OP an med school acceptance and end this nonsense?

More like get her to max out the number of reapplication cycles one can have..

 

[BamaNicole]

Meh, anecdotal stuff like this proves nothing. IME most top schoolers don't take classes weirdly at random private schools over the summer. Those students could've been some of the weaker students at Stanford, barely making Bs. Or they were taking it non-credit to get ahead before they actually took it at school the next semester (yes, some people do this). The possibilities go on and on.

Also, how many does your friend consider "many"? 3? 5? 10? Tiny sample size doesn't mean anything.

Many as in most of the class of 200+

 

[moop]

Many as in most of the class of 200+

Okay, and she is sure they ALL went to Stanford? That's an awful lots of students at a random private college all in one summer. She was friends with all of them? She is sure none of them pulled a B? She literally checked all of their transcripts and knew each and every single one of them to know exactly what grades they got? She is sure that NONE of them had gotten below a B before in their lives? She even had the resources to check up on all their Stanford and high school transcripts?

Do you see what I mean by "anecdotal evidence is crap"? Hearsay turns into hyperbole and generalized misconceptions faster than it took me to fart while writing this post.

There is plenty of evidence that other schools are not necessarily easier than the Ivies; your anecdote is not it.

 

[fishieFDR]

It's not that easy to do well at ivy leagues

 

[moop]

It's not that easy to do well at ivy leagues

But grade inflation! Curves set at B+! Must be a rollllllllllllller coaster of sailing

 

[BamaNicole]

Okay, and she is sure they ALL went to Stanford? That's an awful lots of students at a random private college all in one summer. She was friends with all of them? She is sure none of them pulled a B? She literally checked all of their transcripts and knew each and every single one of them to know exactly what grades they got? She is sure that NONE of them had gotten below a B before in their lives? She even had the resources to check up on all their Stanford and high school transcripts?

Do you see what I mean by "anecdotal evidence is crap"? Hearsay turns into hyperbole and generalized misconceptions faster than it took me to fart while writing this post.

There is plenty of evidence that other schools are not necessarily easier than the Ivies; your anecdote is not it.

Whatever dude. I'm sharing an experience and you can read it and move on or make snarky little comments. Stanford grade inflates....sorry. There's evidence beside my story that I decided to share that backs that up. It also shows that just because you go to a "top school" doesn't mean you will necessarily do well at another school.

 

[Essene]

OmG* didn't recognize OP and actually answered seriously...much embarrass........

Fool you once...

 

[moop]

Whatever dude. I'm sharing an experience and you can read it and move on or make snarky little comments. Stanford grade inflates....sorry. There's evidence beside my story that I decided to share that backs that up. It also shows that just because you go to a "top school" doesn't mean you will necessarily do well at another school.

I like the part where you ignored all the questions I raised as to the applicability of your "story" (it's not an experience because you didn't experience it), but that's okay.

I agree that not every top schooler would kill it at any other old school, for a variety of reasons. It's not just "grade inflation." You people need to stop that argument.

I just don't agree with how your story shows us any of that, that's all.

 

[moop]

Fool you once...

I don't get the OmG* part..

 

[justAstudent]

 

[Kochanie]

I think our Bio classes are curved to a B, other pre-reqs B-, and some upper divisions a bit more lenient (actual grading scales). But watcha gonna do?

 

[deleted407021]

*Generic response*

 

[PreMedOrDead]

It's not that easy to do well at ivy leagues

"Ivy Leagues" is too generic. Even saying "X School" is too generic, unless the school itself has a standardized grading system for all classes as well as standardized teaching and testing to control for each student as much as possible.

There are some Ivys you might sail on a 4.0, others you might claw for a 3.5 - and those two might not even be the same for a different person.

This is why the current MCAT exists (existed?)

 

[Ismet]

Stop with the memes and non-contributory posts. Please refer to the sticky posted at the top of the pre-allo forum:

Trolling:

• Trolling = account ban
• Responding to troll = warning or ban
• Don't get baited by a troll, instead use the "Report" link at the bottom of the troll post. It's the best way to destroy a troll.

Professionalism:

• This is a pre-health professional forum and professional behavior and treatment of other users is expected.

Off Topic / Derailing Posts:

• Users' posts are expected to contribute to the threads and discussions in which they take place.
• There are social threads and even an entire forum for posting random thoughts or unrelated content.

A consistent pattern of not fulfilling these basic expectations will result in action, up to and including banning from the site in accordance with the Terms of Service which all members agree to at the time of registration.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

OP, if you feel that your grades have taken a huge hit, you can enroll in a post bacc program, and spend some time racking up meaningful EC's and research. Add a high MCAT grade an you can eventually enroll at a p/f med school and not have to worry about grades. I'm pretty sure the U Chicago Med School is pass/fail.

 

[43092]

I can't help but agreeing with OP.

 

[moop]

I can't help but agreeing with OP.

"Joined: Monday"
"Messages: 54"

Much you have to learn, young Padawan..

 

[masaraksh]

Ivy League rejects? You assume those who went to a top public school even tried to apply to an ivy. I never had the desire to go to one.

Are you saying that if you reject yourself, you're not a reject?

Hmm. This is an interesting philosophical question.

 

[masaraksh]

Meh, anecdotal stuff like this proves nothing. IME most top schoolers don't take classes weirdly at random private schools over the summer. Those students could've been some of the weaker students at Stanford, barely making Bs. Or they were taking it non-credit to get ahead before they actually took it at school the next semester (yes, some people do this). The possibilities go on and on.

Also, how many does your friend consider "many"? 3? 5? 10? Tiny sample size doesn't mean anything.

Omg, you sound like the biostatistician who critiques my manuscript.

 

[moop]

Omg, you sound like the biostatistician who critiques my manuscript.

I brought up valid points, much as I believe the biostatistician was doing for you as well.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

I was reading an article the other day, and premeds at top schools are screwed. In most ivy league classes, the curve is generally around a B+/A-. For all other schools, the curve is around a B-. Depending on the school and students, the premeds at top schools (ivy league rejects) are ****** and the other premeds (wide range) are good depending on how smart the pool of students are.

In conclusion, shouldn't there be a better standard?

I heard @LizzyM talk about realizing certain schools deflate grades, and it gets taken into consideration

 

[43092]

I heard @LizzyM talk about realizing certain schools deflate grades, and it gets taken into consideration

Yeah like .2 from what I've seen. Sorry, but taking into account rigor and competition (the curve), it's not enough, but it's something I guess.

 

[Aerus]

Yeah like .2 from what I've seen. Sorry, but taking into account rigor and competition (the curve), it's not enough, but it's something I guess.

It's definitely a good amount. Those who get around a 3.6-3.7 at grade deflating schools would definitely be near the top at non grade deflating schools, but those struggling with a 3.1-3.3 probably wouldn't thaaat much better at non deflating schools. The distribution of grades at deflationary schools affects the A range the most.

 

[moop]

Yeah like .2 from what I've seen. Sorry, but taking into account rigor and competition (the curve), it's not enough, but it's something I guess.

lol I think .2 is way more than enough. How much more do you want? You want your 3.1 at Chicago to be a 3.7?? No offense man but if you're looking for like a .4 bump (!!!!) or more, then you're not doing that well in general, no matter what school you go to, and are just looking for excuses at that point. The people pulling 3.2s at Princeton (I know plenty) are not on the same level as those with 3.8s at Harvard (use calculator here based on percentiles between H-P http://gradedeflation.com). If you wanted it more, you would study more/do it more efficiently instead of pointing fingers. Just saying.

 

[centillion]

The people pulling 3.2s at Princeton (I know plenty) are not on the same level as those with 3.8s at Harvard

No one is saying students from grade deflated schools like Princeton, MIT, UChicago will get adcom's boosting their GPA by ~0.6-0.8 points. That's unrealistic. Rather, in my experience, grade deflation normally hinders A- students (3.7) who consequently get a B+ (3.3). This 0.4 difference hits your GPA when you're only taking four classes (reducing your overall by about 0.1). So I don't imagine we would get much of a bump beyond 0.1-0.2 GPA points. If you're on the lower end of the affected range, you'll probably get ~0.2 GPA points higher. If you're on the higher end of the affected range, as in close to A-, you'll probably only get ~0.1 GPA points higher. These are just my approximations based on percentiles.

A ~3.66 GPA at Princeton is a ~3.8 GPA at Harvard (which has ridiculous grading, with the median grade an A- and the mode an A). So that's bumped literally in between a 0.1 to 0.2. And this is only relative to Harvard, keep that in mind.

Also - and I am sure this is not endemic to just top schools - there comes a point in a certain subject or class where you can study and want something as hard as you absolutely can, but you have to recognize there are people who are better than you. And then you realize that grading is an absolutely arbitrary thing when everyone knows their stuff and what distinguishes an A from a B may solely be a handful of multiple choice questions or a few poorly worded sentences, you realize that there's a lot more to grades than just effort and time put in. Maybe, percentage wise, this is experienced more often at "top" schools because of the students they attract. But it's a little bit harsh to say that students who are accustomed to striving towards doing well who are struggling in college just "don't want it hard it enough."