1. Visit this thread to beta-test StudySchedule.org. StudySchedule is a free nonprofit site that builds dynamic MCAT study schedules unique for your needs and timeline.
Hey, Guest, do you know how much will it cost you to apply to medical school? Check out SDN's Medical School Application Cost Calculator and plan your budget.

Top Private Schools Screwed

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by PurpleLove, May 18, 2014.

  1. SDN is made possible through member donations, sponsorships, and our volunteers. Learn about SDN's nonprofit mission.
  1. PurpleLove

    PurpleLove The crappiest of the best.

    473
    31
    Mar 9, 2014
    I was reading an article the other day, and premeds at top schools are screwed. In most ivy league classes, the curve is generally around a B+/A-. For all other schools, the curve is around a B-. Depending on the school and students, the premeds at top schools (ivy league rejects) are ****ed and the other premeds (wide range) are good depending on how smart the pool of students are.

    In conclusion, shouldn't there be a better standard?
     
  2. SDN Members don't see this ad. About the ads.
  3. hoihaie

    hoihaie Banned Banned

    1,821
    1,781
    Mar 6, 2014
    why does that mean they are screwed?
     
  4. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    This makes no sense.

    1. Generalization of Ivy curves is pretty accurate (I go to one). Generalization of curves at "top schools" is too general for that many schools. (e.g., Chicago deflates like that, but Duke does not.)
    2. Schools that do deflate are generally known by adcoms to deflate. Won't help a 3.2, but definitely helps the 3.6s kicking around.
    3. GPA is not everything. Top schools offer top ECs, and "Ivy rejects" (another bad assumption; not everyone wants attend an Ivy) will use those top ECs to make top holistic apps.
    4. Check admissions stats from any top, non-Ivy UG and you'll see they are not f*cked.

    Case closed, someone please shut the thread before Ivy v. non-Ivy war

    /thread
     
  5. BamaNicole

    BamaNicole MS 4 2+ Year Member

    870
    654
    Nov 12, 2012
    AZ
    Ivy League rejects? You assume those who went to a top public school even tried to apply to an ivy. I never had the desire to go to one.
     
  6. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    Omg didn't recognize OP and actually answered seriously...much embarrass........
     
    moisne, darklabel, DermViser and 21 others like this.
  7. shiftingmirage

    shiftingmirage 7+ Year Member

    1,011
    51
    Sep 2, 2007
    Some of the top schools like Harvard have had problems with grade inflation which was brought to light a few years ago.
    I would imagine that most Adcoms are fairly up to date on these type of things.
    Inconsistencies in grading is one of the reasons there are standardized tests like the MCAT. It's graded the same regardless of the institution one attends.
     
    DermViser and aich like this.
  8. WhippleWhileWeWork

    WhippleWhileWeWork 2+ Year Member

    1,803
    1,775
    Mar 20, 2014
    Pancreas
    She keeps changing that avatar.
     
  9. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

    29,626
    49,560
    Jul 27, 2013
    4th Dimension
    I think the problem with top tier students is their inability to troll with originality. It's always the same three things- "why should I be discriminated against for going to a Top 20," "why can URMs get in with lower scores than me and how is that fair," and "why do grants for low SES students exist?" Come on, troll with passion, with some fire and originality, because this is just embarrassing.
     
  10. aich

    aich 2+ Year Member

    45
    33
    Oct 25, 2013
    At my school, classes are curved to a 75 (C).
     
  11. aich

    aich 2+ Year Member

    45
    33
    Oct 25, 2013
    That's why we have the MCAT. It would sure be nice if all schools graded and curved (something like percentiles or class ranking) the same way and then graduate admissions would simply be able to scale GPA's/Rankings between schools and disciplines.
     
  12. youmed

    youmed 5+ Year Member

    229
    99
    Jul 17, 2011
    California
    I wonder why she does this.
     
  13. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

    29,626
    49,560
    Jul 27, 2013
    4th Dimension
    She appears to be a sad troll with no originality that is easily amused by doing the same thing over and over again. She's pretty much that kid that plays shooters with hacks on all day erryday and never gets bored. What a sad, loathsome existence.
     
    DermViser and youmed like this.
  14. Reckoner

    Reckoner Lacks theology and geometry Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

    1,374
    2,875
    Sep 27, 2011
  15. Ace-Co-A

    Ace-Co-A taking up the mantle cell lymphoma 2+ Year Member

    1,119
    906
    Jul 8, 2012
    Port-au-Prince
    Threads like this from now on get the Arby's treatment.

    [​IMG]
     
    Zelda840 likes this.
  16. touchpause13

    touchpause13 nolite te bastardes carborundorum 5+ Year Member

    14,352
    13,798
    Jun 25, 2012
    Cornfield
    This again?
     
    Boolean likes this.
  17. Ace-Co-A

    Ace-Co-A taking up the mantle cell lymphoma 2+ Year Member

    1,119
    906
    Jul 8, 2012
    Port-au-Prince
    This thread has already broken SDN Commandment III. Yikes.
     
    touchpause13 likes this.
  18. Cyberdyne 101

    Cyberdyne 101 It's a dry heat Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

    4,562
    5,745
    Sep 16, 2013
    Under the Bay Bridge
    A different school is the better standard for many of us.
     
  19. touchpause13

    touchpause13 nolite te bastardes carborundorum 5+ Year Member

    14,352
    13,798
    Jun 25, 2012
    Cornfield
    The MCAT is the standard genius. The great equalizer. And it's not even true that ivies = harder to get As. Some grade inflate like a mug, some don't.
     
    Mad Jack and Aerus like this.
  20. khrisskhoras

    khrisskhoras 2+ Year Member

    681
    202
    Apr 23, 2013
    OP, the girl on your avatar gets uglier each time you change it. Just saying....
     
    DermViser likes this.
  21. Aerus

    Aerus Elemental Alchemist 5+ Year Member

    3,029
    1,880
    Apr 20, 2012
    hSDN Member
    hSDN Alumni
    There are many students at top schools who are good students and will be hard to beat.

    But in my experience on SDN as well as real life, there are also a lot of the people who get into top schools who were just good at high school and really have very little ability competing in the college environment. I highly doubt that you'd cruise through a non top school if you're getting low 3.0's at a top school. A super lowly ranked, accepts 90% of applicants state school? Maybe. But most universities are NOT easy.

    It's a huge world and you're not the brightest out there. Accept that fact, move on, and change your study habits or you're not going to med school.
     
    DermViser, chenzt and Mad Jack like this.
  22. BamaNicole

    BamaNicole MS 4 2+ Year Member

    870
    654
    Nov 12, 2012
    AZ
    Here's some food for thought.....I had a former classmate that took chemistry over the summer at a local private catholic college. She said in her class were many students from Stanford. These kids were very high and mighty, thought the world of their academic work and never made below a B in their lives.

    Well....that changed that summer when their butts got handed to them on a silver platter. They came from a top school to a lowly "easier" school....and couldn't pull a B. Other schools are not necessarily easier.
     
    AspiringERMD likes this.
  23. ninjaman22

    ninjaman22 2+ Year Member

    365
    250
    Sep 29, 2013
    OP, since you are always worrying about your GPA, you should start studying for the classes you are taking next semester.
     
  24. khrisskhoras

    khrisskhoras 2+ Year Member

    681
    202
    Apr 23, 2013
    Can someone just give OP an med school acceptance and end this nonsense?
     
    seeinghowitgoes likes this.
  25. chillaxbro

    chillaxbro 5+ Year Member

    1,487
    961
    Jun 11, 2012
    PurpleLove you're an embarrassment to your school
    At this point, I'm actively hoping you don't get into med school
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  26. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    Meh, anecdotal stuff like this proves nothing. IME most top schoolers don't take classes weirdly at random private schools over the summer. Those students could've been some of the weaker students at Stanford, barely making Bs. Or they were taking it non-credit to get ahead before they actually took it at school the next semester (yes, some people do this). The possibilities go on and on.

    Also, how many does your friend consider "many"? 3? 5? 10? Tiny sample size doesn't mean anything.
     
    Fabio Lanzoni and lmn like this.
  27. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    More like get her to max out the number of reapplication cycles one can have..
     
    chillaxbro likes this.
  28. BamaNicole

    BamaNicole MS 4 2+ Year Member

    870
    654
    Nov 12, 2012
    AZ
    Many as in most of the class of 200+
     
  29. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    Okay, and she is sure they ALL went to Stanford? That's an awful lots of students at a random private college all in one summer. She was friends with all of them? She is sure none of them pulled a B? She literally checked all of their transcripts and knew each and every single one of them to know exactly what grades they got? She is sure that NONE of them had gotten below a B before in their lives? She even had the resources to check up on all their Stanford and high school transcripts?

    Do you see what I mean by "anecdotal evidence is crap"? Hearsay turns into hyperbole and generalized misconceptions faster than it took me to fart while writing this post.

    There is plenty of evidence that other schools are not necessarily easier than the Ivies; your anecdote is not it.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  30. fishieFDR

    fishieFDR

    102
    7
    May 17, 2014
    It's not that easy to do well at ivy leagues
     
    moop likes this.
  31. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    But grade inflation! Curves set at B+! Must be a rollllllllllllller coaster of sailing :rolleyes:
     
    fishieFDR likes this.
  32. BamaNicole

    BamaNicole MS 4 2+ Year Member

    870
    654
    Nov 12, 2012
    AZ
    Whatever dude. I'm sharing an experience and you can read it and move on or make snarky little comments. Stanford grade inflates....sorry. There's evidence beside my story that I decided to share that backs that up. It also shows that just because you go to a "top school" doesn't mean you will necessarily do well at another school.
     
  33. Essene

    Essene People don't bury nickels 2+ Year Member

    173
    33
    Mar 8, 2012
    Demacia
    Fool you once...
     
  34. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    I like the part where you ignored all the questions I raised as to the applicability of your "story" (it's not an experience because you didn't experience it), but that's okay.

    I agree that not every top schooler would kill it at any other old school, for a variety of reasons. It's not just "grade inflation." You people need to stop that argument.

    I just don't agree with how your story shows us any of that, that's all.
     
  35. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    I don't get the OmG* part..
     
  36. justAstudent

    justAstudent SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

    772
    483
    Apr 12, 2011
    California
    http://*********************/instances/500x/9148130.jpg
     
  37. Kochanie

    Kochanie

    1,094
    490
    Dec 16, 2013
    I think our Bio classes are curved to a B, other pre-reqs B-, and some upper divisions a bit more lenient (actual grading scales). But watcha gonna do?
     
  38. J Senpai

    J Senpai Grab my arm. Other arm. MY other arm. 5+ Year Member

    7,227
    8,200
    Jun 26, 2011
    *Generic response*
     
  39. PreMedOrDead

    PreMedOrDead I'm sure you'll get in... 2+ Year Member

    2,380
    239
    May 19, 2012
    A dark, dark cave
    MDApps:
    "Ivy Leagues" is too generic. Even saying "X School" is too generic, unless the school itself has a standardized grading system for all classes as well as standardized teaching and testing to control for each student as much as possible.

    There are some Ivys you might sail on a 4.0, others you might claw for a 3.5 - and those two might not even be the same for a different person.

    This is why the current MCAT exists (existed?)
     
  40. Ismet

    Ismet PGY-fun! SDN Administrator 5+ Year Member

    9,699
    9,224
    May 15, 2011
    Physician
    Stop with the memes and non-contributory posts. Please refer to the sticky posted at the top of the pre-allo forum:

     
    Goro likes this.
  41. Cyberdyne 101

    Cyberdyne 101 It's a dry heat Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

    4,562
    5,745
    Sep 16, 2013
    Under the Bay Bridge
    OP, if you feel that your grades have taken a huge hit, you can enroll in a post bacc program, and spend some time racking up meaningful EC's and research. Add a high MCAT grade an you can eventually enroll at a p/f med school and not have to worry about grades. I'm pretty sure the U Chicago Med School is pass/fail.
     
  42. 43092

    43092 Account on Hold Account on Hold

    115
    5
    Jun 2, 2014
    I can't help but agreeing with OP.
     
  43. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    "Joined: Monday"
    "Messages: 54"

    Much you have to learn, young Padawan..
     
    Aerus likes this.
  44. masaraksh

    masaraksh 5+ Year Member

    1,687
    2,007
    Sep 11, 2011
    Northeast
    Are you saying that if you reject yourself, you're not a reject?

    Hmm. This is an interesting philosophical question.
     
  45. masaraksh

    masaraksh 5+ Year Member

    1,687
    2,007
    Sep 11, 2011
    Northeast
    Omg, you sound like the biostatistician who critiques my manuscript.
     
  46. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    I brought up valid points, much as I believe the biostatistician was doing for you as well.
     
    masaraksh likes this.
  47. Optimus-Prime

    Optimus-Prime 2+ Year Member

    695
    458
    Aug 28, 2013
    I heard @LizzyM talk about realizing certain schools deflate grades, and it gets taken into consideration
     
  48. 43092

    43092 Account on Hold Account on Hold

    115
    5
    Jun 2, 2014
    Yeah like .2 from what I've seen. Sorry, but taking into account rigor and competition (the curve), it's not enough, but it's something I guess.
     
  49. Aerus

    Aerus Elemental Alchemist 5+ Year Member

    3,029
    1,880
    Apr 20, 2012
    hSDN Member
    hSDN Alumni
    It's definitely a good amount. Those who get around a 3.6-3.7 at grade deflating schools would definitely be near the top at non grade deflating schools, but those struggling with a 3.1-3.3 probably wouldn't thaaat much better at non deflating schools. The distribution of grades at deflationary schools affects the A range the most.
     
    Kochanie likes this.
  50. moop

    moop 1K Member Banned Account on Hold

    1,789
    1,363
    Dec 14, 2013
    MDApps:
    lol I think .2 is way more than enough. How much more do you want? You want your 3.1 at Chicago to be a 3.7?? No offense man but if you're looking for like a .4 bump (!!!!) or more, then you're not doing that well in general, no matter what school you go to, and are just looking for excuses at that point. The people pulling 3.2s at Princeton (I know plenty) are not on the same level as those with 3.8s at Harvard (use calculator here based on percentiles between H-P http://gradedeflation.com). If you wanted it more, you would study more/do it more efficiently instead of pointing fingers. Just saying. :shrug:
     
  51. centillion

    centillion 2+ Year Member

    131
    48
    Aug 1, 2013
    No one is saying students from grade deflated schools like Princeton, MIT, UChicago will get adcom's boosting their GPA by ~0.6-0.8 points. That's unrealistic. Rather, in my experience, grade deflation normally hinders A- students (3.7) who consequently get a B+ (3.3). This 0.4 difference hits your GPA when you're only taking four classes (reducing your overall by about 0.1). So I don't imagine we would get much of a bump beyond 0.1-0.2 GPA points. If you're on the lower end of the affected range, you'll probably get ~0.2 GPA points higher. If you're on the higher end of the affected range, as in close to A-, you'll probably only get ~0.1 GPA points higher. These are just my approximations based on percentiles.

    A ~3.66 GPA at Princeton is a ~3.8 GPA at Harvard (which has ridiculous grading, with the median grade an A- and the mode an A). So that's bumped literally in between a 0.1 to 0.2. And this is only relative to Harvard, keep that in mind.

    Also - and I am sure this is not endemic to just top schools - there comes a point in a certain subject or class where you can study and want something as hard as you absolutely can, but you have to recognize there are people who are better than you. And then you realize that grading is an absolutely arbitrary thing when everyone knows their stuff and what distinguishes an A from a B may solely be a handful of multiple choice questions or a few poorly worded sentences, you realize that there's a lot more to grades than just effort and time put in. Maybe, percentage wise, this is experienced more often at "top" schools because of the students they attract. But it's a little bit harsh to say that students who are accustomed to striving towards doing well who are struggling in college just "don't want it hard it enough."
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014

Share This Page