Top school or mid tier?

[SoulinNeed]

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[tarheel1408]

Go to Hopkins

 

[matanpucla]

Well, I was very thankful to be accepted to Hopkins yesterday, and it would be a great school to attend. However, all my loved ones are back home, and I've been accepted to a few mid tiers there. I know that I would be a lot happier near my family and friends over the next four years. I wouldn't be living with them, but it would be closer than the other side of the country. So, I guess I'm just asking for some advice. Is it really that much more beneficial to go to Hopkins over a mid tier? I mainly just want to do clinical work, but I do have a growing interest in academic medicine. The match lists of the mid tiers is filled with great programs and specialties, but I guess I'm just looking for some advice. Thanks, guys.

that's a tough one. i think that when we pre-meds evaluate which medical school to go to, we sometimes forget about thinking where we will be happy and content living in for the next four years. if you really think you will be much more happy in one of the mid-tiers, you might want to consider going there. also i hear baltimore isn't the best place to live in. if you do really well in one of the mid-tier schools, you will most likely match in a great program.

but then again it is hopkins. good luck with your choice.

 

[Lollygag]

Go where you'll be happiest. I would recommend going to second look for hopkins, if after that, you feel like you won't be happy there because of how far away you are, then go to a mid tier.

 

[Sophocles]

Go where you'll be happiest. I would recommend going to second look for hopkins, if after that, you feel like you won't be happy there because of how far away you are, then go to a mid tier.

+1

I think as premeds our advice is truly limited by our experience and I hope that perhaps some residents and med students can give some better insight. Nevertheless, I agree with going to the revisit and trying to get a feel for which school is a better fit. That's a tough decision though, good luck. I think personally if you are single go to the better school and make the best out of your experience.

Btw... Congrats!!!!

 

[NickNaylor]

Depends on your goals. If you're interested in academics you should definitely go to Hopkins. If you're interested or think you might be interested in super competitive specialties then Hopkins would likely be beneficial.

That said, coming from a "mid tier" school isn't going to screw you over. You will still become a physician and you will almost certainly be able to get into competitive residencies if you put forth the effort and do well.

I would go with where you think you will be most likely to succeed. The prevailing opinion on SDN will likely be to go to Hopkins with no qualifications because Hopkins is a dream come true for most pre-meds. I would be weary of going to a school just for the sake of prestige though. Frankly I was pretty underwhelmed with Hopkins when I interviewed there, but that was just my experience. They have a reputation but the interview day didn't give me any warm fuzzies based on the students I spoke with and the way applicants are treated (judging people while they're waiting for their interviews? - come on). However that's my own bias intruding based on what was important to me in a program.

tl;dr Everyone is going to have their own biases and opinions. Go where you think you will be happiest, where you think you are most likely to succeed, and, as a much lower consideration perhaps, where you will escape with the least debt.

(sent from my phone)

 

[FSU2013]

Wait to see what kind of financial aid (if any) is available at the schools. Go where you think you'll be happy and you can minimize your debt. I went to a state school and have been able to keep my debt under 6 figures - I have never once regretted doing so. Admittedly, when I applied to med school, I had no idea what I was doing; I took the MCAT without any real prep and only applied to 3 schools with 2 secondaries. Even still, in retrospect I'm very happy to attend my school. I received a great education and I'm able to stand on my board scores and class rank during interviews.

As a side note, it's extremely hard to evaluate a rank list as a premed. You can get wow'ed by big names or sought after specialities, but you probably don't know where the *best* places are for each specialty or what that person's individual goals are. Call me a redneck, but before med school I never knew that CHOP was the place to be for peds, HSS for ortho or MD Anderson for radonc. I always just thought it was always Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, etc.

Good luck.

 

[GrabSlamBoot]

Go where you will be happiest. If that's near your family, then you have your answer. No need to rush on a decision though you can always go to all the schools second looks and decide in Spring. For now just enjoy an awesome cycle.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Your decision is based on balancing what Hopkins can do for you vs your happiness for 4 years.

First, it depends on what you want to do.
a) Academics vs Private practice- pedigree matters for academics. Hopkins will help you start a carreer in acadmeics much more than a mid-tier program would.

b) What specialty- Is it primary care (gen peds, gen med, FM)? If so then it doesn't matter where you go.
If you want to do a specialty, especially a competitive one you would be better served at hopkins

Second- it depends on how you would cope in a new place
- would you be ok away from your family? Realistically you will be busy so being far away means at most you would be able to visit your family once a month.

Finally cost- what is the cost difference over 4 years?


I am a resident at Hopkins. I came from a mid-tier program and am one of the few residents in my program from a mid-tier program. While technically any med school can get you any residency, your options are much higher at a stronger program, especially hopkins. Just look at the match lists. It is a tough decision. if you can stomach the cost and the distance from family, I say go to hopkins.

 

[mimelim]

I am a resident at Hopkins. I came from a mid-tier program and am one of the few residents in my program from a mid-tier program. While technically any med school can get you any residency, your options are much higher at a stronger program, especially hopkins. Just look at the match lists. It is a tough decision. if you can stomach the cost and the distance from family, I say go to hopkins.

As a cautionary, match lists reflect the talents of the medical students that matriculate there as well as the 'bump' from the added prestige of the medical school. There is no question that prestige matters, but for the vast majority (90%+) it makes zero difference.

I was also underwhelmed by Hopkins when applying for medical school. I think it was more of a manifestion of how the interview day went and how the admissions office interacted with me more than anything, but I wasn't that high on it when applying. That having been said, if you are intending to go into a very competitive field, it is worth considering going to Hopkins over a more local school.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Your decision is based on balancing what Hopkins can do for you vs your happiness for 4 years.

First, it depends on what you want to do.
a) Academics vs Private practice- pedigree matters for academics. Hopkins will help you start a carreer in acadmeics much more than a mid-tier program would.

b) What specialty- Is it primary care (gen peds, gen med, FM)? If so then it doesn't matter where you go.
If you want to do a specialty, especially a competitive one you would be better served at hopkins

Second- it depends on how you would cope in a new place
- would you be ok away from your family? Realistically you will be busy so being far away means at most you would be able to visit your family once a month.

Finally cost- what is the cost difference over 4 years?


I am a resident at Hopkins. I came from a mid-tier program and am one of the few residents in my program from a mid-tier program. While technically any med school can get you any residency, your options are much higher at a stronger program, especially hopkins. Just look at the match lists. It is a tough decision. if you can stomach the cost and the distance from family, I say go to hopkins.

The percentage of those who specialize based on match list seems to be the same from Hopkins to the mid tiers. I don't think choosing them would leave me at primary care. Either way, it's a tough choice.

 

[sinombre]

I vote Hopkins. But, like the solid advice you've received suggests, you really have to consider what it is you want to do and how much happier you'd be living in a certain location. I tend to subscribe to the philosophy that you shouldn't sell yourself short--you may think you're interested in a relatively non-competitive specialty now, but that could (and likely will) change over the course of medical school.

 

[Sophocles]

The percentage of those who specialize based on match list seems to be the same from Hopkins to the mid tiers. I don't think choosing them would leave me at primary care. Either way, it's a tough choice.

What about the programs they go into. I don't know if this matters but another thing to keep in mind is that although they are matching in the same specialties the mid-tier schools might have a tougher time matching at more competitive programs.

 

[bollywoodlover]

I'm a firm believer of Choosing the school at which you feel you fit with most And not choosing solely based on prestige. I don't know how Hopkins is for med school, but heard from undergrads that the school isn't that great..it's in a bad neighborhood and students are cutthroat.

Thing I'd consider when choosing a med school are:
How friendly were the students and faculty at interview day? Do the students seem to genuinely happy to be there?
Do the 4th years seem to feel they are prepared for the match and have they been given the support and opportunities to do well?
Where do you plan on doing your residency? If you plan on staying close to home and near family, I'd go with the mid tier. Usually schools will have connections with residency programs in the area at the least and will be recognized within the state for producing quality physicians.
How important is being a world class recognized researcher to you? If its super important than Hopkins might be a better option?

I think going to any school will allow you to do academic medicine and clinical practice. If you want to do academic medicine at Hopkins or Harvard , I'd choose Hopkins. If you want to do academic medicine at a state school or one of the school in your areas, you'd be fine choosing the mid tier.

Anyways, I think med school is hard enough and you should choose the school that you think you'd be happier at. It seems like the mid tier might be a better fit for you based on the info you provided plus you'd save some money probably.

 

[cherahla]

Basically what everyone else is saying:

1.) Go to JHU second look and talk to someone about your budding interest in academic medicine. JHU would give you a great start at a career in that field.

2.) If you're set on clinical, then go for your cheapest option, which usually coincides with the school closest to home.

 

[NickNaylor]

What about the programs they go into. I don't know if this matters but another thing to keep in mind is that although they are matching in the same specialties the mid-tier schools might have a tougher time matching at more competitive programs.

But for most people being in a "competitive program" is entirely unimportant. That's the whole point. Pre-meds have a hard-on for going to the schools with the big names because they will presumably help you get into a big name residency. But why is going to a big name residency important to you? It obviously should be if you know or think you might want to go into academics, but if you're pretty confident that you "just" want to be a physician, it is largely irrelevant. Hell, even if you want to go into academics you don't have to train at a top tier program. Sure, maybe to go to Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, etc. it is extremely helpful, but even then there are 180+ other med schools that need faculty to teach and do research. Obviously you don't want to go to a terrible residency program, but it's a fallacy to think you're somehow going to be a terrible physician or will be woefully unqualified if you don't do residency at a hospital that isn't ranked in the top 5 of USNWR.

I know this might come as a surprise to many, but the majority of physicians did not attend a top 5 med school and did not train at a top 5 residency. They're somehow getting by and aren't killing patients. Frankly I think this obsession with going to "the best _____" is more of a rat race and a desire to have your ego stroked than actual utility. As with all things there are exceptions to this, and for some people with specific career goals this obsession with getting into top programs is legitimate. But in most cases it's entirely unnecessary and just induces more stress with absolutely no gain.

(sent from my phone)

 

[Instatewaiter]

The percentage of those who specialize based on match list seems to be the same from Hopkins to the mid tiers. I don't think choosing them would leave me at primary care. Either way, it's a tough choice.

Getting into a field and getting the residency where you want to go are 2 separate things.

 

[sinombre]

But for most people being in a "competitive program" is entirely unimportant. That's the whole point. Pre-meds have a hard-on for going to the schools with the big names because they will presumably help you get into a big name residency. But why is going to a big name residency important to you? It obviously should be if you know or think you might want to go into academics, but if you're pretty confident that you "just" want to be a physician, it is largely irrelevant. Hell, even if you want to go into academics you don't have to train at a top tier program. Sure, maybe to go to Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, etc. it is extremely helpful, but even then there are 180+ other med schools that need faculty to teach and do research. Obviously you don't want to go to a terrible residency program, but it's a fallacy to think you're somehow going to be a terrible physician or will be woefully unqualified if you don't do residency at a hospital that isn't ranked in the top 5 of USNWR.

I know this might come as a surprise to many, but the majority of physicians did not attend a top 5 med school and did not train at a top 5 residency. They're somehow getting by and aren't killing patients. Frankly I think this obsession with going to "the best _____" is more of a rat race and a desire to have your ego stroked than actual utility. As with all things there are exceptions to this, and for some people with specific career goals this obsession with getting into top programs is legitimate. But in most cases it's entirely unnecessary and just induces more stress with absolutely no gain.

(sent from my phone)

It is seriously impressive that you manage to type posts like this on your phone. I have a hard enough time sending text messages with more than a few sentences.

 

[Sophocles]

But for most people being in a "competitive program" is entirely unimportant. That's the whole point. Pre-meds have a hard-on for going to the schools with the big names because they will presumably help you get into a big name residency. But why is going to a big name residency important to you? It obviously should be if you know or think you might want to go into academics, but if you're pretty confident that you "just" want to be a physician, it is largely irrelevant. Hell, even if you want to go into academics you don't have to train at a top tier program. Sure, maybe to go to Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, etc. it is extremely helpful, but even then there are 180+ other med schools that need faculty to teach and do research. Obviously you don't want to go to a terrible residency program, but it's a fallacy to think you're somehow going to be a terrible physician or will be woefully unqualified if you don't do residency at a hospital that isn't ranked in the top 5 of USNWR.

I know this might come as a surprise to many, but the majority of physicians did not attend a top 5 med school and did not train at a top 5 residency. They're somehow getting by and aren't killing patients. Frankly I think this obsession with going to "the best _____" is more of a rat race and a desire to have your ego stroked than actual utility. As with all things there are exceptions to this, and for some people with specific career goals this obsession with getting into top programs is legitimate. But in most cases it's entirely unnecessary and just induces more stress with absolutely no gain.

(sent from my phone)

I understand what you are saying but I hope you weren't directing this towards me. There are many assumptions made that just aren't true if you were addressing what I stated. I simply stated that if going to a big name residency program is important to the OP, then it would probably be easier to get into one from JHU versus a mid-tier school. How much easier, I'm sure is debatable. Also, whether this truly matters I'm sure is can also be debated, and no one is saying that without going to these programs they cannot become competent or good physicians. Nevertheless, I would think where one goes to residency is pretty important since I have read many comments (including some of yours) that have stated you don't really learn anything relevant to real world application of medicine from medical school, rather you learn to be a doctor in residency. Ergo, me personally, I would imagine that someone who wanted to be extremely proficient at their job would go to the best possible residency program that will allow them to have the greatest experience and teaching- whether this correlates to big names or not is irrelevant; point is that going to a school like U of Chicago or JHU will help that student have the resources to compete at a higher level to have a better chance at getting accepted into the specific residency program that they want to go to. I'm also sure that reputation and alumni connection would be pretty important in terms of picking a medical school in regards to competitive residencies.

 

[ShenanigansMD]

Hopkins sounds more adventurous than back home to me, but your home might be cooler than mine.

 

[nadaba]

You have a long time to think about this. I was in a similar situation, and I'm 100% (well, 90%) happy I chose the far away dream school. Go to second look and wait for financial aid!

 

[SoulinNeed]

I should clarify that, at this point, I don't care about big name residencies or big name academic programs. If I choose Hopkins, I would still want to do a residency back home, and thus that would knock me out of doing one at Yale or Harvard (then again, that's my thinking now). My point is, I would love to go into academic medicine, but it doesn't have to be at a big name program.

 

[Sophocles]

I should clarify that, at this point, I don't care about big name residencies or academic programs. If I choose Hopkins, I would still want to do a residency back home, and thus that would knock me out of doing one at Yale or Harvard (then again, that's my thinking now). My point is, I would love to go into academic medicine, but it doesn't have to be at a big name program.

I don't think anyone is saying that without going to a top ranked medical school you can't do a top ranked residency program. It just might be somewhat easier to do from JHU than a mid tier program.

 

[NickNaylor]

I understand what you are saying but I hope you weren't directing this towards me. There are many assumptions made that just aren't true if you were addressing what I stated. I simply stated that if going to a big name residency program is important to the OP, then it would probably be easier to get into one from JHU versus a mid-tier school. How much easier, I'm sure is debatable. Also, whether this truly matters I'm sure is can also be debated, and no one is saying that without going to these programs they cannot become competent or good physicians. Nevertheless, I would think where one goes to residency is pretty important since I have read many comments (including some of yours) that have stated you don't really learn anything relevant to real world application of medicine from medical school, rather you learn to be a doctor in residency. Ergo, me personally, I would imagine that someone who wanted to be extremely proficient at their job would go to the best possible residency program that will allow them to have the greatest experience and teaching- whether this correlates to big names or not is irrelevant; point is that going to a school like U of Chicago or JHU will help that student have the resources to compete at a higher level to have a better chance at getting accepted into the specific residency program that they want to go to. I'm also sure that reputation and alumni connection would be pretty important in terms of picking a medical school in regards to competitive residencies.

Yes, but that's where the whole fallacy lies. You assume that going to a top residency means you are a "more proficient" physician. That's ridiculous and is not a safe assumption to make. In fact, in some cases the exact opposite may be true because fellows will "steal the show" so to speak. As a resident at some of these big name programs with many fellowship programs, you actually may receive LESS clinical training than at a smaller program where residents essentially function as THE physician. I don't blame you for making these assumptions because I made them too, but they're based on the whole idea that "rankings" and "prestige" are actually useful and accurate measures of training. Newsflash: they aren't.

You're right in that if you want to only go to a specific hospital in a specific city, being a very strong applicant can be helpful. Attending a highly ranked program MIGHT help you to some extent in that regard. However, data has shown that there are many more important things ahead of your academic pedigree that are based primarily on your individual effort that PDs evaluate apps on. Yes, there are exceptions to this. If you want to go into derm and want to attend ONLY a specific program, then you should utilize every advantage possible because the likelihood of that actually happening is very low.

My point here is not to **** on top programs or somehow say they are equivalent to less prestigious programs. They aren't for a few reasons. However, for MOST people wanting to become physicians, those differences are inconsequential, and worrying about that stuff before you have even attended one medical school lecture is somewhat laughable. The best way to maximize your chances at landing a great residency are to work hard and do well. Period. Full stop. No discussion. If you don't do that, you're screwed. If you DO do that, then you will likely have nothing to worry about regardless of the school you attend.

(sent from my phone)

 

[NickNaylor]

It is seriously impressive that you manage to type posts like this on your phone. I have a hard enough time sending text messages with more than a few sentences.

This is the advantage of the Galaxy Note. 😉

(sent from my phone)

 

[Sophocles]

I understand what you are saying but I hope you weren't directing this towards me. There are many assumptions made that just aren't true if you were addressing what I stated. I simply stated that if going to a big name residency program is important to the OP, then it would probably be easier to get into one from JHU versus a mid-tier school. How much easier, I'm sure is debatable. Also, whether this truly matters I'm sure is can also be debated, and no one is saying that without going to these programs they cannot become competent or good physicians. Nevertheless, I would think where one goes to residency is pretty important since I have read many comments (including some of yours) that have stated you don't really learn anything relevant to real world application of medicine from medical school, rather you learn to be a doctor in residency. Ergo, me personally, I would imagine that someone who wanted to be extremely proficient at their job would go to the best possible residency program that will allow them to have the greatest experience and teaching- whether this correlates to big names or not is irrelevant; point is that going to a school like U of Chicago or JHU will help that student have the resources to compete at a higher level to have a better chance at getting accepted into the specific residency program that they want to go to. I'm also sure that reputation and alumni connection would be pretty important in terms of picking a medical school in regards to competitive residencies.

Yes, but that's where the whole fallacy lies. You assume that going to a top residency means you are a "more proficient" physician. That's ridiculous and is not a safe assumption to make. In fact, in some cases the exact opposite may be true because fellows will "steal the show" so to speak. As a resident at some of these big name programs with many fellowship programs, you actually may receive LESS clinical training than at a smaller program where residents essentially function as THE physician. I don't blame you for making these assumptions because I made them too, but they're based on the whole idea that "rankings" and "prestige" are actually useful and accurate measures of training. Newsflash: they aren't.

You're right in that if you want to only go to a specific hospital in a specific city, being a very strong applicant can be helpful. Attending a highly ranked program MIGHT help you to some extent in that regard. However, data has shown that there are many more important things ahead of your academic pedigree that are based primarily on your individual effort that PDs evaluate apps on. Yes, there are exceptions to this. If you want to go into derm and want to attend ONLY a specific program, then you should utilize every advantage possible because the likelihood of that actually happening is very low.

My point here is not to **** on top programs or somehow say they are equivalent to less prestigious programs. They aren't for a few reasons. However, for MOST people wanting to become physicians, those differences are inconsequential, and worrying about that stuff before you have even attended one medical school lecture is somewhat laughable. The best way to maximize your chances at landing a great residency are to work hard and do well. Period. Full stop. No discussion. If you don't do that, you're screwed. If you DO do that, then you will likely have nothing to worry about regardless of the school you attend.

(sent from my phone)

I don't think anyone is saying that without going to a top ranked medical school you can't do a top ranked residency program. It just might be somewhat easier to do from JHU than a mid tier program.

I completely agree with you that the data states there are far more important aspects of a applicants file than the name of their school, and without hard work all else is pointless. I hope you don't think I'm arguing with you because even I'll acknowledge that I am not far along in the process to know much-read my first post in this thread. All that I am attempting to do is clarify what it is that I posted, since I don't feel that I have made this erroneous assumption that you claim I have. In the first post I quoted I acknowledged that perhaps the best residency doesn't mean that it would be at a prestigious hospital-or at least that's what I wanted to say in the bold, perhaps it didn't come out as clear as I wanted it to in my post. In my last post I quoted, I tried to say exactly what you did by stating that there is a benefit but it might not be much. Hope this makes sense.

 

[NickNaylor]

By the way, I welcome any corrections from residents or attendings on this. However based on conversations with those folks and doing quite a bit of reading/research, that's the opinion I've gathered.

(sent from my phone)

 

[Hemorrage]

Hopkins, don't think twice because you'll regret not going there later

 

[NickNaylor]

I completely agree with you that the data states there are far more important aspects of a applicants file than the name of their school, and without hard work all else is pointless. I hope you don't think I'm arguing with you because even I'll acknowledge that I am not far along in the process to know much-read my first post in this thread. All that I am attempting to do is clarify what it is that I posted, since I don't feel that I have made this erroneous assumption that you claim I have. In the first post I quoted I acknowledged that perhaps the best residency doesn't mean that it would be at a prestigious hospital-or at least that's what I wanted to say in the bold, perhaps it didn't come out as clear as I wanted it to in my post. In my last post I quoted, I tried to say exactly what you did by stating that there is a benefit but it might not be much. Hope this makes sense.

Fair enough. My fundamental point was that this is such a minor and frankly elusive factor that one should not make a decision to attend a medical school based primarily or even significantly on it, ESPECIALLY given the concerns/considerations the OP posted. Again, though, there are some cases where you would consider these things, but they're not applicable to most people.

(sent from my phone)

 

[MedPR]

It is seriously impressive that you manage to type posts like this on your phone. I have a hard enough time sending text messages with more than a few sentences.

Get swiftkey.

 

[Sophocles]

Get swiftkey.

I wish iPhone's had this

 

[SoulinNeed]

BTW guys, I don't really feel like I have until April. I still have to take Biochem, and that'll cost me a few thousand. I would rather not spend it, if I decide not to go. Or, I could just take the class, and decide in April, who knows?

 

[MedPR]

I wish iPhone's had this

I'm sure there's an equivalent. At times I can type faster on my phone (with swiftkey) than I can on my laptop and I type at 100+ wpm.

 

[MedPR]

BTW guys, I don't really feel like I have until April. I still have to take Biochem, and that'll cost me a few thousand. I would rather not spend it, if I decide not to go. Or, I could just take the class, and decide in April, who knows?

Does JHU require biochem? Did I miss something?

 

[45408]

By the way, I welcome any corrections from residents or attendings on this. However based on conversations with those folks and doing quite a bit of reading/research, that's the opinion I've gathered.

(sent from my phone)

No, I agree with what you're saying.

If the OP loved Hopkins and wanted to live there, this would be a no-brainer. However, if being near family is important to you, like it was to me, then it changes things. I went to a more expensive, somewhat lower research-ranked school because it was close to home. I don't regret it a bit - I think my training was at least as good or better than the other school, and my wife and I both appreciated being close to family.

 

[sinombre]

I'm sure there's an equivalent. At times I can type faster on my phone (with swiftkey) than I can on my laptop and I type at 100+ wpm.

Is swiftkey really that much better than autocorrect?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Yes, but that's where the whole fallacy lies. You assume that going to a top residency means you are a "more proficient" physician. That's ridiculous and is not a safe assumption to make. In fact, in some cases the exact opposite may be true because fellows will "steal the show" so to speak. As a resident at some of these big name programs with many fellowship programs, you actually may receive LESS clinical training than at a smaller program where residents essentially function as THE physician. I don't blame you for making these assumptions because I made them too, but they're based on the whole idea that "rankings" and "prestige" are actually useful and accurate measures of training. Newsflash: they aren't.

Since you're talking about fellows, I assume you're talking about IM residency. The reality is actually the opposite of what you're saying. Almost universally you get much more autonomy at a top residency program when compared to a smaller program. That means from almost day 1, instead of hand holding, you will be on your own, only re-directed if you are on the wrong path. If you are looking for clinical acumen, you need autonomy to develop. Only a top tier program, that can attract strong enough candidates to thrive in this kind of environment, can allow this. So most top residencies are "resident run," the exception being Mayo which is somewhat fellow run (which most wouldn't put in the top tier).

Now for fellowship, things are very different. If you are looking to be a clinician rather than a researcher, you should avoid those programs that are resident run and look for one that is fellow run, again with a few exceptions. For instance, Columbia is a great cards program with tons of volume and also has retained resident autonomy.

You can get into a strong residency from a mid-tier med school but it seems that most of the residents are from top tier schools. Now, if you are looking to go right back home for residency then, again, it doesn't make that much difference

 

[sinombre]

Since you're talking about fellows, I assume you're talking about IM residency. The reality is actually the opposite of what you're saying. Almost universally you get much more autonomy at a top residency program when compared to a smaller program. That means from almost day 1, instead of hand holding, you will be on your own, only re-directed if you are on the wrong path. If you are looking for clinical acumen, you need autonomy to develop. Only a top tier program, that can attract strong enough candidates to thrive in this kind of environment, can allow this. So most top residencies are "resident run," the exception being Mayo which is somewhat fellow run (which most wouldn't put in the top tier).

Now for fellowship, things are very different. If you are looking to be a clinician rather than a researcher, you should avoid those programs that are resident run and look for one that is fellow run, again with a few exceptions. For instance, Columbia is a great cards program with tons of volume and also has retained resident autonomy.

Are you really claiming that only those candidates capable of matching into top programs are capable of thriving under conditions of increased autonomy? That seems extremely far-fetched. I'm not saying there isn't increased autonomy at top-tier programs or that their residents don't thrive under these conditions, but I highly doubt that residents in non-top-tier programs are unable to thrive under similar conditions.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Does JHU require biochem? Did I miss something?

Yes, it does.

 

[MedPR]

Is swiftkey really that much better than autocorrect?

I've never had an iPhone so idk how well auto correct works. SwiftKey never inserts the wrong word for me though. And I can type words together without hitting space and it will insert the spaces appropriately. For example I just typed four words together and it inserted all the spaces when I hit space.


Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[NickNaylor]

I've never had an iPhone so idk how well auto correct works. SwiftKey never inserts the wrong word for me though. And I can type words together without hitting space and it will insert the spaces appropriately. For example I just typed four words together and it inserted all the spaces when I hit space.


Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Yeah, SwiftKey rules. It does a few quirky things that are irritating (eg, typing an email address in a field it doesn't recognize as requesting an email address), but for the most part it's pretty solid.

(sent from my phone)

 

[The Kraken]

OP, keep this mind: http://mobile.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=970137
Although very different between fields, the underlying principle is the same.

 

[alpinism]

Are you interested in clinical/translational/basic science research along with w/ academics?
Do you want to get involved with public policy, public health, or global health?
Dual degrees?
Are you interested in working w/ underserved populations or minorities?
Is there a certain location where you'd like to do residency?
Have you ever lived away from your friends/family?
Any significant others back home?

There are a lot of factors that go into choosing a school, and many of them are more personal in nature depending on your specific situation and goals in life.

I will say this, its nice having profs who are experts and leaders in their respective fields. In addition, the opportunities for many of the above (esp. high-impact research and getting published) are almost endless. However, it's only worthwhile if that's what truly interests you and is what will make you happy at the end of the day. Don't go somewhere just for the sake of prestige.

 

[imcanadaian]

FWIW, I asked my physician mentor point-blank about how I should go about choosing a medical school (he's a Harvard Med grad, residency at UCSF, fellowship at UCSF, currently teaches for UCSF, as well as practicing locally at the hospital) and he basically told me that at the end of the day, all US medical schools are quality medical schools and will give you a great education. Quality of life, cost of attendance, location--these are factors that are more important.

He also went on to tell me that one's later career won't be really determined until you get to that level of applying to/choosing residencies and fellowships, and that right now, medical school is medical school.

EDIT: oh, and I asked the other doctors who work in his medical group what they felt about my question--and they all said pretty much the same thing. And here's a selection of where they all went to med school: (I found it it interesting that there's the full range of the "top" and "mid" tier schools represented here)

Harvard
Stony Brook
NYMC
UCSF
UCI
Cornell
UIC

ultimately, the prevailing notion I got from these doctors is just to go to the school that best makes you happy (whether this is cost, prestige, environment, fits your life circumstances, whatever), and then work hard to get yourself to the career you so desire.

 

[Bacchus]

No, I agree with what you're saying.

If the OP loved Hopkins and wanted to live there, this would be a no-brainer. However, if being near family is important to you, like it was to me, then it changes things. I went to a more expensive, somewhat lower research-ranked school because it was close to home. I don't regret it a bit - I think my training was at least as good or better than the other school, and my wife and I both appreciated being close to family.

Just to tack on to this... if I wouldn't have been around family/high school friends (<1.5 hours away) during the past 4 years I probably would not be where I am today. Do not underestimate this!

 

[mcloaf]

FWIW, I asked my physician mentor point-blank about how I should go about choosing a medical school (he's a Harvard Med grad, residency at UCSF, fellowship at UCSF, currently teaches for UCSF, as well as practicing locally at the hospital) and he basically told me that at the end of the day, all US medical schools are quality medical schools and will give you a great education. Quality of life, cost of attendance, location--these are factors that are more important.

He also went on to tell me that one's later career won't be really determined until you get to that level of applying to/choosing residencies and fellowships, and that right now, medical school is medical school.

EDIT: oh, and I asked the other doctors who work in his medical group what they felt about my question--and they all said pretty much the same thing. And here's a selection of where they all went to med school: (I found it it interesting that there's the full range of the "top" and "mid" tier schools represented here)

Harvard
Stony Brook
NYMC
UCSF
UCI
Cornell
UIC

ultimately, the prevailing notion I got from these doctors is just to go to the school that best makes you happy (whether this is cost, prestige, environment, fits your life circumstances, whatever), and then work hard to get yourself to the career you so desire.

What a reasonable, holistic response; this doesn't belong on SDN. Harvard or homeless.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Are you interested in clinical/translational/basic science research along with w/ academics?
Do you want to get involved with public policy, public health, or global health?
Dual degrees?
Are you interested in working w/ underserved populations or minorities?
Is there a certain location where you'd like to do residency?
Have you ever lived away from your friends/family?
Any significant others back home?

There are a lot of factors that go into choosing a school, and many of them are more personal in nature depending on your specific situation and goals in life.

I will say this, its nice having profs who are experts and leaders in their respective fields. In addition, the opportunities for many of the above (esp. high-impact research and getting published) are almost endless. However, it's only worthwhile if that's what truly interests you and is what will make you happy at the end of the day. Don't go somewhere just for the sake of prestige.

When you ask if I want to do research along with academics, do you mean now, or post residency?

No, I don't want to get involved with public policy.

Yes, I do want to work with underserved communities (but I think I can do that at Loyola-Stritch or UIC).

No to dual degrees.

Yes, I want to do my residency in Chicago.

No, I've never lived away from my family and friends.

And no, I don't have a significant other (at least, not right now, lol).

 

[45408]

Since you're talking about fellows, I assume you're talking about IM residency. The reality is actually the opposite of what you're saying. Almost universally you get much more autonomy at a top residency program when compared to a smaller program. That means from almost day 1, instead of hand holding, you will be on your own, only re-directed if you are on the wrong path. If you are looking for clinical acumen, you need autonomy to develop. Only a top tier program, that can attract strong enough candidates to thrive in this kind of environment, can allow this. So most top residencies are "resident run," the exception being Mayo which is somewhat fellow run (which most wouldn't put in the top tier).

Now for fellowship, things are very different. If you are looking to be a clinician rather than a researcher, you should avoid those programs that are resident run and look for one that is fellow run, again with a few exceptions. For instance, Columbia is a great cards program with tons of volume and also has retained resident autonomy.

You can get into a strong residency from a mid-tier med school but it seems that most of the residents are from top tier schools. Now, if you are looking to go right back home for residency then, again, it doesn't make that much difference

I won't speak for IM, but this is not the case for surgery. The fellows do take cases because they have to. You tend to follow a more rigid hierarchy, and autonomous decisions are delayed.

 

[MedPR]

When you ask if I want to do research along with academics, do you mean now, or post residency?

No, I don't want to get involved with public policy.

Yes, I do want to work with underserved communities (but I think I can do that at Loyola-Stritch or UIC).

No to dual degrees.

Yes, I want to do my residency in Chicago.

No, I've never lived away from my family and friends.

And no, I don't have a significant other (at least, not right now, lol).

I don't think you'll have a problem matching in Chicago from either of the Chicago schools you have been accepted to. Obviously it would be cool to say you went to med school at JHU, but Chicago seems to be your home and going away to medical school probably isn't the best way to experiment with how well you do on your own.

I vote Stritch or UIC.

 

[SoulinNeed]

I think I'm just going to take Biochem, pay the few thousand, and decide in April. My fear is that I decide not to take the class, get some meerit aid from them, but be screwed out cause I didn't take the class.