Totally confused about pay

[orthodude]

Sorry if this has been answered before.
I am with 3 year HPSP commitment, did 5 year civilian deferred residency, started active duty on July 1st. My order states that date of rank to adjusted based on constructive credit of 9 years, HPPED of 5 years and Pay Entry Base Date(PEBD) is on July 1st, 2010. The finance office said I am getting base salary for 0-3 without any years in service. Doesn't make any sense to me. I thought I would be paid 0-3 with 5 years.
Please help...

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[huskydoc]

Your PEBD (also listed as Pay Date on LES) should be the day you graduated Medical School. THat is the day your time in service for Base Pay begins. I.e. the day you made O-3.

Your HPPED should be 5years. This will affect your VSP mostly. Important in that when you are at year 6, your VSP (Variable Special Pay) will increase from 416/mo to 1000/mo

Your BASD (the day you started active duty) will be July 1st from what your post states

You should be getting paid as an O-3 with 5 years (but that is the over 4 year mark on the pay tables). Again important because next year your pay woudl increase as you should be at the over 6yr mark.

Disconnect b/w the reality of your orders and the regulations and what the FInance office does is unfortunately a common thing. I would suggest you contact your branch manager so he/she can guide you through the process of getting this fixed.

I would also suggest you keep close record of what you should have been paid that way once fixed you ensure you were not shorted. It took me about 5 months to get this similar situation fixed, and after just over 2 years I just found out that my HPPED is still incorrect.

Google the Military FInance regs and FY10 MC Special Pay instruction which will outline what you should be receiving. PM me if you have any further questions

 

[BamaMedik]

Sorry if this has been answered before.
I am with 3 year HPSP commitment, did 5 year civilian deferred residency, started active duty on July 1st. My order states that date of rank to adjusted based on constructive credit of 9 years, HPPED of 5 years and Pay Entry Base Date(PEBD) is on July 1st, 2010. The finance office said I am getting base salary for 0-3 without any years in service. Doesn't make any sense to me. I thought I would be paid 0-3 with 5 years.
Please help...

I'm not 100%....but for pay purposes you would only get 0-3 with 5yrs if you were prior enlisted or prior officer on active duty. If you did 5 years of residency as full time out service I think you get credit because you were active duty but if you deferred you were inactive ready reserve which accumulates zero time. Maybe somebody else can confirm that but I think that's the case.

Also Date of rank should be 9yrs but time in service would be zero if you never served prior active duty time.

 

[haujun]

I'm not 100%....but for pay purposes you would only get 0-3 with 5yrs if you were prior enlisted or prior officer on active duty. If you did 5 years of residency as full time out service I think you get credit because you were active duty but if you deferred you were inactive ready reserve which accumulates zero time. Maybe somebody else can confirm that but I think that's the case.

Also Date of rank should be 9yrs but time in service would be zero if you never served prior active duty time.

My friend was in similar situation where he went to civilian residency under HPSP. While he was paying his obligations S1 discovered that his time in civilian residency actually counted towards time in service and he got all his lost pay back (minus interest). In my experience the military finance is not totally familar with HPSP pay, physican related pays...

 

[met19]

I'm not 100%....but for pay purposes you would only get 0-3 with 5yrs if you were prior enlisted or prior officer on active duty. If you did 5 years of residency as full time out service I think you get credit because you were active duty but if you deferred you were inactive ready reserve which accumulates zero time. Maybe somebody else can confirm that but I think that's the case.

Also Date of rank should be 9yrs but time in service would be zero if you never served prior active duty time.

asked the hpsp and the ftos folks these questions and this is what they told me.

acutally date fo rank is when he signed his comission after he graduated from med school and date of pay is the same is he is o-3 with 5 yrs.

 

[MTGas2B]

I'll be in a similar situation soon. HPSP, NADDS, now reporting to active duty in August. I don't know if this is causing you problems, but recently I had to take a new oath of office to go from LT USNR to LT USN. I presume you did the same. Part of my instructions are to turn in the new oath when I report. I was worried something like this might happen, because now I will turn in my new commission that shows me as a LT in July 2010. Clearly it shows that I was LT USNR in 2005, but it probably wouldn't take much for someone to process it incorrectly. I was planning on bringing both with me when I check in just in case something like this happened.

 

[orthodude]

Yup..I did a DA 71 two days before I came to active duty. I sent it to HRC, that didn't help. Some lady up in HRC apparently didn't activate me until mid July even though they sent me the order back in April. So, no one could find me in the system. After she activated me, it took several days for various system to be upadated. After I showed up in the system, base finance officer didn't know how the medical core pay system works, so refused to allow VSP. After calling everyone from top to bottom, finance officer said he will now do his part. Meanwhile, without this, none of my special pays (ASP, ISP) can be initiated. So, no MASP yet..haha. Hope your experience will be better than mine.

 

[D.O.nysus]

Hey Guys,
I know this thread has been inactive for some time but I desperately need some help. So a friend of mine pointed out that my LES didn't give me credit for the time spent in (a 3 year) civillian residency. I have been to our post personnel office, which supposedly adjusted my PEBD and sent it to finance locally and now on to finance (DFAS) in Indianapolis and my "Ombudsman" who has never heard of someone doing a civillian residency or HPPED and his policy "phone-a-friend" advisor has quoted some non-physician Army Reg from 1981 as evidence of that I should not have been given credible service for time in residency. Anecdotally, I have heard of many folks who have submitted "paperwork" and had their pay entry basic date (PEBD) adjusted and received a lump sum of owed money. Or folks who were savy enough to get it entered correctly as they have come on active duty.
Unfortunately, I referenced my friend and they couldn't "find his paperwork" so they said they couldn't use it as case precedence. I am literally at wits end and thinking of submitting an IG complaint. Everybody knows that if you do a military residency that you will make more money during residency but there isn't supposed to be a gigantic pay reduction when a graduate from a civillian residency comes on active duty when compared to a military-trained counterpart.
Anyway, can anybody who has successfully navigated this path to get credit for time in civillian residency reply with some advice/tricks of the trade re: what paperwork needs to be done or who the definitive authority on this is? In reality, even my consultant to the surgeon general wasn't too familiar with the special circumstances of an HPSP grad who did civillian training. Any and all advice is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks,

Robb

 

[backrow]

I will have to do some digging to get the correct answer or maybe someone will correct me and have the data if what I say is incorrect.

I believe that if you were deferred for residency you do not get time in service for pay purposes; however you are given time in grade for rank and promotion (not pay or retirement)as a constructive service credit.

Now some of this depends on your status while in residency. If you were still in an IRR status during residency then I'm pretty sure the above is correct. I did not do that route so maybe you are in a different status and the time would count. FTOS time should count towards pay, promotion, and retirement.

Hopefully someone can come behind and confirm or refute me for you.

 

[Kingfisher]

Hey Guys,
I know this thread has been inactive for some time but I desperately need some help. So a friend of mine pointed out that my LES didn't give me credit for the time spent in (a 3 year) civillian residency. I have been to our post personnel office, which supposedly adjusted my PEBD and sent it to finance locally and now on to finance (DFAS) in Indianapolis and my "Ombudsman" who has never heard of someone doing a civillian residency or HPPED and his policy "phone-a-friend" advisor has quoted some non-physician Army Reg from 1981 as evidence of that I should not have been given credible service for time in residency. Anecdotally, I have heard of many folks who have submitted "paperwork" and had their pay entry basic date (PEBD) adjusted and received a lump sum of owed money. Or folks who were savy enough to get it entered correctly as they have come on active duty.
Unfortunately, I referenced my friend and they couldn't "find his paperwork" so they said they couldn't use it as case precedence. I am literally at wits end and thinking of submitting an IG complaint. Everybody knows that if you do a military residency that you will make more money during residency but there isn't supposed to be a gigantic pay reduction when a graduate from a civillian residency comes on active duty when compared to a military-trained counterpart.
Anyway, can anybody who has successfully navigated this path to get credit for time in civillian residency reply with some advice/tricks of the trade re: what paperwork needs to be done or who the definitive authority on this is? In reality, even my consultant to the surgeon general wasn't too familiar with the special circumstances of an HPSP grad who did civillian training. Any and all advice is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks,

Robb

Maybe there is a difference in service jargon here. In the Navy an "ombudsman" is the leader and POC for the spouse support group (aka gossip queen). I would NEVER think to talk to this person for anything. 😕

Our surgeon did a civilian residency deferment and he was an 0-4 in less than a year. I didn't think to ask him if he was getting credit for years in service.

It doesn't surprise me that your pay office is clueless. The one thing that all pay types have in common (besides 35 NAMs for doing nothing) is the gross lack of knowledge about anything that has to do with their job. You will find that dispute the fact that physicians have been at your command for decades, it is like you are the first one to ever grace the hospital! "How do I get my BCP started?", "is my BAH right?", or "This is the fifth time I've been in here! Why am I getting paid as an 0-1?!" Don't expect answers, just expect the blank stare...😱

 

[Gastrapathy]

Maybe there is a difference in service jargon here. In the Navy an "ombudsman" is the leader and POC for the spouse support group (aka gossip queen). I would NEVER think to talk to this person for anything. 😕

Our surgeon did a civilian residency deferment and he was an 0-4 in less than a year. I didn't think to ask him if he was getting credit for years in service.

It doesn't surprise me that your pay office is clueless. The one thing that all pay types have in common (besides 35 NAMs for doing nothing) is the gross lack of knowledge about anything that has to do with their job. You will find that dispute the fact that physicians have been at your command for decades, it is like you are the first one to ever grace the hospital! "How do I get my BCP started?", "is my BAH right?", or "This is the fifth time I've been in here! Why am I getting paid as an 0-1?!" Don't expect answers, just expect the blank stare...😱

I think this is a controversial topic and folks have had different outcomes depsite identical situations. I recall NavyFP going over the complexities here in a thread several years ago. Maybe send a PM and get his attention to this.

 

[MTGas2B]

I was HPSP followed by civilian residency in NADDS. When I finished med school is was commissioned a 2105 in IRR. For pay and promotion the years ticked away. I was selected for O-4 on the reserve board while I was in IRR. When I checked into active duty I presented both O-3 commissioning documents. My 2105 from the end of medical school and my 2100 signed at the end of training. My pay dates were backed up to my 2105 comission. The other thing is VSP, BUMED put me on the same timeline, putting me to $1200 a month pretty quick. That part all went seamlessly, it just took a few month for PSD to get it all started

 

[backrow]

Okay, I thought about this more and realize I'm totally confused as well.

According to US Code any time spent on "active" service should count towards pay and promotion (retirement is based on a point system with one point equal to one day on active duty with other points available via various routes). The term "active service" does not equal on active duty, it simply means not in an inactive status which is actually a very narrow group of people. If you are eligible for promotion then you are on active status (basically).

Now that would mean that your time in a deferred status should equate to you gaining time in service towards pay and promotion (note the change in stance from what I believe was incorrect in what I said initially).

So what to do? I have no clue. If you are Navy (typing on my phone so can't check the topic) I would recommend calling Navy Personnel Command otherwise find the equivalent and talk to them. Your local pay people will continue to be of no help if they haven't been able to help to date.

 

[MTGas2B]

So what to do? I have no clue. If you are Navy (typing on my phone so can't check the topic) I would recommend calling Navy Personnel Command otherwise find the equivalent and talk to them. Your local pay people will continue to be of no help if they haven't been able to help to date.

The thing you need is your oath for O-3 after med school, submit it to PSD and/or PERS to correct the dates. Then follow up with BUMED to get VSP fixed after the parts with PERS are done. BUMED can't do anything with special pays until all the PERS stuff is in order. That's why HPSP makes a big deal out swearing in for O-3 after medical school. This is really the date you start your military career (administratively speaking) VSP years, pay scale, and promotion all start ticking.

 

[bobbyseal]

The time during residency is creditable for service. You get time in grade for that. For instance, I was NADDS and then came in as O-3 with 5 years. My pay was moved up, but if you're in the NADDS program you don't get time towards retirement. Talk to PSD, find a copy of your oath of office when you became a LT after med school and that should make things kosher.

 

[deuist]

The thing you need is your oath for O-3 after med school, submit it to PSD and/or PERS to correct the dates. Then follow up with BUMED to get VSP fixed after the parts with PERS are done. BUMED can't do anything with special pays until all the PERS stuff is in order. That's why HPSP makes a big deal out swearing in for O-3 after medical school. This is really the date you start your military career (administratively speaking) VSP years, pay scale, and promotion all start ticking.

Any idea where I could find that (Air Force)? I'm relatively sure that I didn't keep anything after taking the oath after graduating medical school.

 

[MTGas2B]

Any idea where I could find that (Air Force)? I'm relatively sure that I didn't keep anything after taking the oath after graduating medical school.

Do you have any kind of on-line record access? Navy PERS keep scanned copies of most of our records. It could end up there. I have no clue what the analagous USAF system would be called.

Dig through your stuff at home. Hopefull you just have it buried somewhere.

 

[Perrotfish]

M
It doesn't surprise me that your pay office is clueless. The one thing that all pay types have in common (besides 35 NAMs for doing nothing) is the gross lack of knowledge about anything that has to do with their job.:

Where do NAMs even come from? I feel like I hear every branch in the military complaining about how everyone has one of these things, but I've never actually seen someone in the medical community wearing one.

 

[pgg]

Where do NAMs even come from? I feel like I hear every branch in the military complaining about how everyone has one of these things, but I've never actually seen someone in the medical community wearing one.

They're absolutely arbitrary. I've seen one given to a Corpsman for reorganizing a medical record filing cabinet and maintaining "over 90%" accountability for records (soooo ... 10% of records were lost?). I've also seen NAM nominations knocked back to letters of appreciation when the recipient was a line Corpsman who spent the deployment out in the dirt with his Marines.

I got nothing out of a 3 year GMO tour with two deployments - no big deal, MC O4 promotions are automatic and I picked up rank on time anyway. But meanwhile, the admin NCO who kicked back Purple Heart awards for our Marines because they "weren't hurt bad enough to deserve it" got himself a Meritorious Service Medal (which was bumped up to a Bronze Star because the MSM was awarded in a combat zone).

The award system is a sad, sad joke. Unless you're in a position to push them through for your subordinates (which you should do), your sanity and faith in humanity will be better off if you just pretend the system doesn't exist.

 

[NavyFP]

Where do NAMs even come from? I feel like I hear every branch in the military complaining about how everyone has one of these things, but I've never actually seen someone in the medical community wearing one.

When a Mommy COM and a Daddy COM really love each other...........and a few months later a NAM is born.

In general, the medical community is a poor steward of awards. More often than not, if you don't write your own when you leave a command, you won't get one. NAMs are restricted in general to LCDRs and below, although LCDRs should be doing work worthy of a COM. I had to ask for a COM to be downgraded to a NAM back when I was a LCDR because I didn't have one and realized it would be my last opportunity. They shrugged and said OK.

As to Pay Dates:
For those who graduate from HPSP. Your base date is the day you graduate from medical school and are recommissioned as a LT. The clock starts for the medical bonuses, base pay, and promotion. Roughly 6 years later you will be a LCDR.

For FAP. Pay will be based on when you joined the program. Promotion will be from the day you graduated med school based on Entry Grade Credit. Again, roughly six years from graduating medical school will put you at LCDR.