TOUCH hours overemphasized?

[allinthehips]

From the Aacom website,

“Translating Osteopathic Understanding into Community Health (TOUCH) is a national initiative of the Council of Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP).”

So in the first few weeks it seems like a lot people have been plugging different events to gain said TOUCH hours. This ranges from administration to club board members to random second years I have spoken with.

All have referenced the deans letter and how this will look come residency application time.

It seems to me like what’s the difference between something like this and EVERY OTHER volunteer experience out there?

Come application time everything will be ACGME anyways (not to mention my school currently places something like 80% ACGME... don’t quote that figure, but it’s high). I HIGHLY doubt a PD will care about what kind of volunteering you are doing or whether the deans letter indicates you met your 50 TOUCH hours to get a gold star or whatever.


What is the big deal here? Is this propaganda or am I missing something?

Can’t tell if I’m jaded or seeing through the BS.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Nobody cares. It's fluff.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Do the bare min with this bs and spend your free time either studying for board, researching or just chillaxing.

If you give a crap on this thinking that it’s your ticket to boost your application out of primary care, chances are that you’re going to primary care.

Board scores, third year clinical grades, LORs, auditions, and research trump all.

Don’t let the FM professors at your school convince you otherwise.

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

It’s all BS.. focus on gaining knowledge. No one is going to rank you for residency because you have 10,000 TOUCH hours even though you have board/class failures

 

[UnoMas]

I wouldn't waste time doing any of this BS unless it is something you are truly passionate about. This ain't medical school application, spend the free time on yourself. TOUCH points/random volunteering don't mean jack**** when it comes to residency application.

 

[allinthehips]

My gut told me so, but I was looking for some affirmation. I have an opportunity to do some research with a big name PP surgeon and when I brought this up some people actually discouraged it.

Yes I get that I am still in the acclimation phase of medical school, but why would I not try to incorporate some actually CV-beneficial activities into my schedule... of course being cognizant as to not let my grades fall.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

have an opportunity to do some research with a big name PP surgeon and when I brought this up some people actually discouraged it.

Yeah do that. You’ll see who will be laughing when you are getting academic residency interviews at name recognizable programs.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

My gut told me so, but I was looking for some affirmation. I have an opportunity to do some research with a big name PP surgeon and when I brought this up some people actually discouraged it.

Yes I get that I am still in the acclimation phase of medical school, but why would I not try to incorporate some actually CV-beneficial activities into my schedule... of course being cognizant as to not let my grades fall.

BS like this is why a lot of your seniors are jaded at the DO admin in general. Your DO leadership doesn’t give a damn about your physician aspiration. For them, a DO passing boards with Comlex 401 and soaping into FM in the Dakotas is a big win.

 

[allinthehips]

BS like this is why a lot of your seniors are jaded at the DO admin in general. Your DO leadership doesn’t give a damn about your physician aspiration. For them, a DO passing boards with Comlex 401 and soaping into FM in the Dakotas is a big win.

I’m not gonna be too quick to jump on my school specific admin as we have a pretty good reputation of placing students into good residencies and having strong board scores, however my initial impressions of the general student body (not all) seems to have their priorities mixed up. The AOA/COCA admin is a different story.

Furthermore, during orientation one of our deans showed us the NRMP PD survey and I was not surprised at how far down the list extra-curricular activities were. For a data-driven profession there seems to be plenty who refuse to accept the facts.

 

[sunshinefl]

From the Aacom website,

“Translating Osteopathic Understanding into Community Health (TOUCH) is a national initiative of the Council of Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP).”

So in the first few weeks it seems like a lot people have been plugging different events to gain said TOUCH hours. This ranges from administration to club board members to random second years I have spoken with.

All have referenced the deans letter and how this will look come residency application time.

It seems to me like what’s the difference between something like this and EVERY OTHER volunteer experience out there?

Come application time everything will be ACGME anyways (not to mention my school currently places something like 80% ACGME... don’t quote that figure, but it’s high). I HIGHLY doubt a PD will care about what kind of volunteering you are doing or whether the deans letter indicates you met your 50 TOUCH hours to get a gold star or whatever.


What is the big deal here? Is this propaganda or am I missing something?

Can’t tell if I’m jaded or seeing through the BS.

I’ve never heard of TOUCH and I’m a 2nd year. However, for our school we have to complete 80 hours of community service by March of 2nd year. Not sure if it’s all “TOUCH” since we’re DO students or if that time has to be spent doing OMT/educating about DOs? lol I don’t know.

 

[DOFOSHO]

I remember being told about TOUCH hours my first week of med school. Never even knew what it stood for. I graduated with ZERO touch hours and I'm doing just fine.

We are all adults. Its time to stop touching people.

 

[Neopolymath]

Do not do anything besides school work, research (if needed or you don't hate it), and stuff you enjoy. Absolutely do not do any volunteering/touch stuff/ club bs unless you want to because you enjoy it. Do. Not. Do. It.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Do not do anything besides school work, research (if needed or you don't hate it), and stuff you enjoy. Absolutely do not do any volunteering/touch stuff/ club bs unless you want to because you enjoy it. Do. Not. Do. It.

There will always be that one person who listens to the DO propaganda hard and then fails board by the end of second year. Then, they will face the reality that they will even be lucky just to match to primary care in a decent place.

Board is a serious matter. Don’t be an idiot and put yourself behind the eight ball hard and then go through an emotional trainwreck when board time comes. The bottom line is that most of your FM professors at school were barely passing boards 10-15 years ago and then going to FM. For them, matching to FM is a success.

However, the reality is that 90% of DO students have other aspirations besides FM. There’s nothing wrong with FM but matriculation to DO schools would drop by 50% if admin tells premeds up front that they are obligated to do DO things that would take a possible 8-10 extra hrs per week along with some sabatage from admins during dedicated time. Let’s not forget the possible switchable bs about some schools making attendance mandatory starting 2nd semester of 1st year through some bs known as small group cases and clicker points lectures.

The sabatage by school admin is real. Whenever I see some bs propaganda attributing some DO success to the DO way, I get really emotional bc it has nothing to do with the garbage DO education, support, or culture but rather the sheer brilliance and determination of that person.

 

[sunshinefl]

Do not do anything besides school work, research (if needed or you don't hate it), and stuff you enjoy. Absolutely do not do any volunteering/touch stuff/ club bs unless you want to because you enjoy it. Do. Not. Do. It.

Except when your school makes you do 80 hours volunteering by March of 2nd year :/ It’s literally a pass/fail course. If you don’t, you will have a failed course and won’t progress.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Except when your school makes you do 80 hours volunteering by March of 2nd year :/ It’s literally a pass/fail course. If you don’t, you will have a failed course and won’t progress.

Sweet Dolly Parsons bootstraps! I am sorry to hear this. That policy sounds like its straight out the 'make sure they fail early, so we know who's gonna fail boards' DO playbook. I swear it seems like the controlling people in COM admin are competing with gerbils for intelligence sometimes.

TOUCH hours are about as useful as OMM from Larry Nassar. And named (in)appropriately to boot.

 

[sunshinefl]

Sweet Dolly Parsons bootstraps! I am sorry to hear this. That policy sounds like its straight out the 'make sure they fail early, so we know who's gonna fail boards' DO playbook. I swear it seems like the controlling people in COM admin are competing with gerbils for intelligence sometimes.

TOUCH hours are about as useful as OMM from Larry Nassar. And named (in)appropriately to boot.

One of my friends tried to get a chunk done over spring break by volunteering as a camp counselor at a sleep away camp for sick kids when we had 2 midterms the week back... and he’s an M1 again. Ironically with more time available to be volunteering.

Some of the requirements feel like they are trying to pad their own resumes, the school’s public perception, etc. Like they can (and do) make little press releases that say “Our Osteopathic Medical school contributed over 1735268479937 hours of community service this year.”

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Sweet Dolly Parsons bootstraps! I am sorry to hear this. That policy sounds like its straight out the 'make sure they fail early, so we know who's gonna fail boards' DO playbook. The controlling people in DO admin are competing with gerbils for intelligence.

TOUCH hours are about as useful as OMM from Larry Nassar. And named (in)appropriately to boot.

I had to do the same 80-100 hrs crap.

One of my friends tried to get a chunk done over spring break by volunteering as a camp counselor at a sleep away camp for sick kids when we had 2 midterms the week back... and he’s an M1 again. Ironically with more time available to be volunteering.

Some of the requirements feel like they are trying to pad their own resumes, the school’s public perception, etc. Like they can (and do) make little press releases that say “Our Osteopathic Medical school contributed over 1735268479937 hours of community service this year.”

Try to get all of the bs TOUCH hrs done during the summer to make up for deficits during your first school year or to fill out hr requirement for 2nd year.

I spent some time during my summer after 1st year at a kids' camp, doing some fun stuff.

I was never bothered with such bs again during my 2nd year.

 

[sunshinefl]

I had to do the same 80-100 hrs crap.


Try to get all of the bs TOUCH hrs done during the summer to make up for deficits during your first school year or to fill out hr requirement for 2nd year.

I spent some time during my summer after 1st year at a kids' camp, doing some fun stuff.

I was never bothered with such bs again during my 2nd year.

We’re already 3 full weeks into fall. And we had classes in the summer.

I’m at 32 hours now. I’m going to try to go on our December mission trip to India. We get like 40-45 hours for that.

 

[NurWollen]

 

[rg2o3]

I have immediately deleted every email I’ve gotten on this topic.

 

[It's lupus!]

I had this pitched to me my first week (I'm a month in), I immediately cast it off as extra nonsense. I always get frustrated when people want students to be excellent and competent physicians but add extra things not related to competence on top of normal classes and study time. Whomp whomp. I do volunteer, but only for things that I legitimately want to be a part of that don't feel like staged shows of "altruism".

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile

 

[Chibucks15]

People do anything for a gold star! That's why med students drive me insane sometimes. When did we get so high strung as a group?.. :/

 

[sab3156]

Except when your school makes you do 80 hours volunteering by March of 2nd year :/ It’s literally a pass/fail course. If you don’t, you will have a failed course and won’t progress.

lol #osteopathy

 

[alprazoslam]

Considering I don’t see touch hours on nrmp I’m assuming pds be like idagf


Residency application is a job interview not a “ohhh goody two shoes med school” interview/app


They want people who can take care of patients. IE pass boards and don’t suck in clinicals



Lol touch hours

 

[shisong]

only thing touch hours helped me was sigma sigma phi (AOA equivalent for DO)

 

[DOFOSHO]

honestly you're more likely to turn people OFF by talking about your touch hours.

 

[alprazoslam]

Yeah I’ll give a touch hour for anybody who writes this soap note for me thanks

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Larry Nassar got plenty of TOUCH hrs with his pts

Wouldn't even surprise me for PDs to auto reject DO students when they bring up their "TOUCH" hrs

 

[alprazoslam]

Larry Nassar got plenty of TOUCH hrs with his pts

Wouldn't even surprise me for PDs to auto reject DO students when they bring up their "TOUCH" hrs

When people say they do touch hours they always lying. Nobody can last that long

 

[BorntobeDO?]

only thing touch hours helped me was sigma sigma phi (AOA equivalent for DO)

Thats false.

 

[Preston Garvey]

Need at least 150 touch hours if you want surgical subs

 

[allinthehips]

Glad to see I’m not the only one who thought this was whack. Hey I’m all for doing extra, but FFS at least do something that residencies actually value.

 

[Chibucks15]

only thing touch hours helped me was sigma sigma phi (AOA equivalent for DO)

most residencies don't know what that even is. After speaking to a friend who went into competitive places all over the country for interviews. He was a rockstar and they only brought up research, boards, and the occasional volunteer thing because he was involved in one and did a lot with it. In terms of volunteering though He said they don't care how much you do and/or the variety...just pick one and stick with it and it comes off as being dedicated to a cause you enjoy. But even then he said it was mostly boards/research/getting to know you as a person. But I don't see a downside in getting SSP, just kinda dumb to include certain community service levels as a requirement imho

 

[katiemaude]

Except when your school makes you do 80 hours volunteering by March of 2nd year :/ It’s literally a pass/fail course. If you don’t, you will have a failed course and won’t progress.

Its not hard to get to 80 if you do a medical mission trip. Some of the ones from your school are really well organized and are educational as well as fun. Also not super expensive. Jamaica, anyone?

 

[sab3156]

only thing touch hours helped me was sigma sigma phi (AOA equivalent for DO)

Sigma sigma phi is trash. It is not at all equivalent to AOA, which is very reputable. No one in the ACGME world is going to take SSP seriously or care about it. I didn't even reply to their "invitation" (which is little more than a way for them to collect some money while offering nothing to you in return) because of how trash it is.

 

[shisong]

Sigma sigma phi is trash. It is not at all equivalent to AOA, which is very reputable. No one in the ACGME world is going to take SSP seriously or care about it. I didn't even reply to their "invitation" (which is little more than a way for them to collect some money while offering nothing to you in return) because of how trash it is.

would you have SSP on your ERAS or no? I would have it lol

 

[sunshinefl]

would you have SSP on your ERAS or no? I would have it lol

I bet Sab would not.

 

[sab3156]

would you have SSP on your ERAS or no? I would have it lol

No, because that garbage is not even worth $1 of my money.

 

[shisong]

No, because that garbage is not even worth $1 of my money.

ah okay, well you do you then best of luck

 

[Neopolymath]

Sigma sigma phi is trash. It is not at all equivalent to AOA, which is very reputable. No one in the ACGME world is going to take SSP seriously or care about it. I didn't even reply to their "invitation" (which is little more than a way for them to collect some money while offering nothing to you in return) because of how trash it is.

Same lol

 

[sunshinefl]

No, because that garbage is not even worth $1 of my money.

Same lol

Some of my classmates have it in their email signature.

 

[sab3156]

Some of my classmates have it in their email signature.

LOL, classic.

 

[Neopolymath]

Some of my classmates have it in their email signature.

John Doe
DO candidate 2021
SSP Touch Hour High Score
Assistant Manger of history of school gov
Surgery club chair
One time I babysat in 5th grade and they didn't die
Masters 2015 random school
Bachelor 2013 random school
Email
Cell
House
Carrier pigeon#

 

[It's lupus!]

John Doe
DO candidate 2021
SSP Touch Hour High Score
Assistant Manger of history of school gov
Surgery club chair
One time I babysat in 5th grade and they didn't die
Masters 2015 random school
Bachelor 2013 random school
Email
Cell
House
Carrier pigeon#

#skreetcred

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile

 

[sunshinefl]

John Doe
DO candidate 2021
SSP Touch Hour High Score
Assistant Manger of history of school gov
Surgery club chair
One time I babysat in 5th grade and they didn't die
Masters 2015 random school
Bachelor 2013 random school
Email
Cell
House
Carrier pigeon#

Lol do you go to the same school? Because this is painfully accurate.

 

[hallowmann]

So I will say I was asked about Volunteer experiences I had on ERAS during a few residency interviews, but to be honest, I never actually filled out the forms to get TOUCH points recorded because it seemed pointless. The only point I could possibly see would be in trying to get SSP, and even that is of questionable significance on residency apps, because every school has different requirements for it.

 

[alprazoslam]

John Doe
DO candidate 2021
SSP Touch Hour High Score
Assistant Manger of history of school gov
Surgery club chair
One time I babysat in 5th grade and they didn't die
Masters 2015 random school
Bachelor 2013 random school
Email
Cell
House
Carrier pigeon#

What’s worse are the people who put their previous degrees on their white coat. Like MS anatomy
How obnoxious would it be if I put my nursing degree on mine lmao

Don’t people know nobody cares what you did before med school. Egos lolz

People so proud that they needed a post bac to get into med school

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What’s worse are the people who put their previous degrees on their white coat. Like MS anatomy
How obnoxious would it be if I put my nursing degree on mine lmao

Don’t people know nobody cares what you did before med school. Egos lolz

People so proud that they needed a post bac to get into med school

Put your step score on there lol, I've seen people do that on LinkedIn

 

[DO2015CA]

What’s worse are the people who put their previous degrees on their white coat. Like MS anatomy
How obnoxious would it be if I put my nursing degree on mine lmao

Don’t people know nobody cares what you did before med school. Egos lolz

People so proud that they needed a post bac to get into med school

Ouch. Ruthless. Love it. Stay jaded my friend.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

John Doe
DO candidate 2021
SSP Touch Hour High Score
Assistant Manger of history of school gov
Surgery club chair
One time I babysat in 5th grade and they didn't die
Masters 2015 random school
Bachelor 2013 random school
Email
Cell
House
Carrier pigeon#

Thats almost as bad as FNP's titles on emails.