TOURO-NY vs DMU

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by auzziekiwi, May 7, 2008.

  1. auzziekiwi

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    I am extremely fortunate to have been accepted to both programs and I am having trouble making such an important decision.

    Pros for TOURO-NY:
    -location/amount of experience I'd get
    -school's mission: helping the Harlem area
    -urban medicine
    -great faculty, facilities
    -not worried about rotations (reason:Dr. Diamond)

    Cons for TOURO-NY:
    -such a new school

    Pros for DMU:
    -very established program
    -great curriculum
    -great faculty, facilities
    -rural medicine

    Cons of DMU:
    -location
    -don't see myself practicing there in the future

    I am torn because I feel VERY comfortable at BOTH schools but they are so opposite. Is there another thread with a comparison for these schools? Can anyone please help in my dilemma?
     
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  3. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3

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    Im insulted that DMU has been compared with a McTouro branch.

    How do you know touro has great faculty? how do you know it has good rotations? you dont, it is a new school, it is expensive and costly to live in NYC and thats about the only thing you know. Also just because you go to school in Iowa doesnt mean you will do residency here.
     
  4. EEL08

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    That wouldn't even be a question in my mind. DMU hands down. I highly doubt many people go to DMU with the intent of staying in Iowa for the rest of their lives.
     
  5. PistolPete

    Physician

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    My vote goes to DMU as well.
     
  6. Colbert

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    Listen Tony Toughnuts, you need to get off your high horse.

    Touro has multiple locations because they have established a reputation of creating quality schools and providing a great education. How does the OP know the faculty is great? Probably because of their credentials. You think because a school is new that they wouldn't get qualified teachers? Gimme a break. As for the rotations, they are set and they are in great hospitals in New York City.

    You need to check yourself, buddy. Feel free to boast and try to sell your own school, but when they only way you can do it is by trying to bash a school you obviously have never been to or know anything about then you better slow your roll.
     
  7. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3

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    First let me say that I dont have anything against Touro personally, I interviewed and was accepted to TUNV, but do any of the Touro's have a good reputation? not really, at best they are just ok, and will train you adequately. They have multiple schools because they take an old boat storage, movie theatre, horehouse and turn it into a med school.

    It really doesnt matter what you say about Touro because it has proved nothing, there is alot more to the curriculum then just good faculty. and Im not on any high horse, DMU is just a better school plain and simple, there really isnt an argument against it.
     
  8. aaw2107

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    Hey, I had to choose between KCOM and Touro-NY and decided on Touro. Granted, Des Moines is not as rural as Kirksville, but take it from an Iowan, that "city" is not that great. Also, the impression I got at DMU during my interview is that the rotations are a bit disorganized at this point (I could be wrong, that was just what I gathered). It is a tough decision, but if you are a city person or not a midwesterner, I would think long and hard before moving to Iowa. I grew up there and was ecstatic to leave. Hope to see you at Touro!
     
  9. aaw2107

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    Toohot, you're a bit full of yourself, no? How dare you compare DMU with Touro? Someone seems a little defensive for some reason.
     
  10. auzziekiwi

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    Thanks to those who have replied to my post so far!

    This was in no way supposed to insult anyone or any institution by the way.

    aaw2107: I am a city gal and I really like the urban medicine focus....this is going to be a tough decision :scared:
     
  11. jad2121

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    delete!!!
     
  12. aaw2107

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    Ooops! Accidentally sent from my bf's account. Anyway, I was just gonna say that I hope you make a decision soon because it can be so stressful not knowing where you will be come August. Good luck!!!
     
  13. Bond8204

    Bond8204 Anatomy Lab Crasher

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    While TooHot was a little brash in how he said it, he and Eel are right in that this is a no-brainer.

    Colbert--there's nothing terribly wrong with Touro-NY. I feel you might've gotten a little defensive of your own situation--I'm sure you'll be fine going there, I'm sure everybody who graduates in your class and that of 2012 will become fine doctors.

    However, you're the first class. The first. So nothing can really be said about clinical rotations (boasting that they're "setup throughout the area" before anybody actually goes through third year is premature). The school has zero on established reputation either in the area or nationally .

    Again, I'm sure it will establish something...but for right now, when you show up as a medical student in third and fourth year, nobody is going to know what the hell medical school you're from. It's not Touro-bashing. It's facts. Every school that's new has to go through it, and these next several classes will be the ones who do.

    I'd object to the idea that Tourocom has excellent facilities just because they're "new" as well. Building temperature is apparently a huge issue. Entire floors of the building are still under construction. I'd wager that the building won't be fully functional at the end of the two years you'll spend there.

    While living in New York City would be awesome and exotic, Touro estimates a $30,000 cost of living and other expenses. $30,000.

    I interviewed at both schools so this is more of a "feel" point. I get the sense that Touro wants to push its graduates into primary care more than Des Moines does. All well and fine (especially because all DO schools are going to push towards PC to some extent and you might want to go into it anyway), but I personally wouldn't want to feel like I had let my school's mission down by becoming a prominent wealthy physician on park avenue...something the school's founders have expressely said they do NOT want their physicians to be.

    I wouldn't blink with this decision but that's me. Again, people at TouroCOM will be fine so don't whine...but you're talking about choosing between a school in its second year vs. a school that could be argued as one of the top 5 nationally renowned DO schools.
     
  14. Jamers

    Jamers Sexy Man

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    This is correct. There is currently a push (through loan forgiveness) to encourage more doctors to stay in Iowa. However, I, for example, have no intention of staying in Iowa past third year.

    I would also encourage you not to make a decision that will impact you for the next 2 to 4 years based upon SDN opinions. There are many people that will plug the hell out of their school even though they may hate it deep down. Just go with the school that best fits you.
     
  15. Ki45toryu

    Ki45toryu In this corner...

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    Wow...
     
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  17. a817

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    To Colbert's defense, he did call the school part of the "McTouro chain" which is not right. DO's pissing on each other dose not make any sense.

    To the OP, DMU is a great school and the safer choice. If you like risk and NYC then Touro might be a good fit. I am not sure which school would make it easier to do residency in NY.

    In touro you do have 2 electives 3rd year which is cool, and you should be able to find a hospital and specialty in the city that you may enjoy. It really depends on you.

    You should ask your self, How important is alumni pull and school recognition to you? Do you mind if DO's you rotate with have never heard of your school? Would rather spend the next few years in Iowa or NYC? Will you be miserable in Iowa?

    I have heard allopathic residencies give no importances to school unless they are by the school and have seen its graduates, which makes sense because they really dont have too much knowledge on osteopathic schools. They give more preference to your stats.

    But i have heard AOA residencies might be slightly harder to get if you are from a new school, but when i spoke to the PCOM director of admissions, I was told that it is not true and PD's would emphasize board scores, rank and recs, etc and not the school. I am not sure which is true, and I would like someone to clear it up.
     
  18. Colbert

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    You're really just trying to throw fuel on the fire aren't you? Turning a whorehouse into a medical school? Seriously man, are we in seventh grade?

    Thank you again, toohot, for your objective and informative opinions on the matter. I especially appreciate how you claim there is no argument against DMU being a better school while providing no argument for it being a better school. So far your logic is "well at least it isn't new." I have absolutely no problem with DMU, I think it's a great school and I've actually had family members attend there. I chose not even to apply there, however, because I didn't want to spend four years in Iowa.

    Out of respect for a legitimate question from the OP, I'm done with this thread before it gets out of hand/personal/irrevocably insulting and closed. My only advice is that as far as I'm concerned, it makes no sense living some place for four years and learning to treat that patient population when you have absolutely no intention of staying there after. The patients, prevalence of disease, and cultural issues you will learn to deal with in one place could be vastly different from another.
     
  19. Boner

    Boner I just blue myself

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    I think TooHot would know a thing or two about the Vegas scene being he lived there prior to med school. Furthermore, he is absolutely not off base with his McTouro comment; they currently have 3 DO schools and are opening a new MD school in NJ. That would make 3 new schools in the course of 5 or so years, so yes, McTouro is not terribly off. DMU has been around for over one hundred years. We have established faculty who pull in lots of NIH research money. Our facilities, despite being a few years older than TouroNY, are more technologically advanced (HDMI anatomy lab, new sim lab with full time operating staff that control multiple sim-men, etc...), many connections with political and medical organizations via our school's president (former Governor of Iowa), extensive alumni network, a consistent record of great match lists, one of the cheapest private tuitions, low cost of living, a shining reputation as an established and excellent medical school, etc, etc.... list could go on and on.
     
  20. jbone

    jbone Herro!

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    :thumbup::thumbup:
    Correct.
     
  21. Bond8204

    Bond8204 Anatomy Lab Crasher

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    This thread's a little more heated than other "school vs. school" threads for two reasons:

    1) TooHot's original comment. It's obviously asinine for somebody to be "insulted" that their school is degraded by being compared to another school. It's an exaggeration.

    2) This is an obvious choice for the vast majority of people. It's analogous to somebody asking on the allo-thread if they should go to Rosalind Franklin or Stanford. Obviously location is going to matter for some people and if you took 100 people, 20 might choose Touro for location.

    DMU has wayyy too much going for it and Tourocom has substantial risks to it to objectively lay out the reasons for going and not going, like the OP does and somehow conclude Tourocom. The only reason I could possibly agree with choosing tourocom would be if a person placed tremendous emphasis on location of NYC over Des Moines their first 3 years of school.

    As most people who have posted are either at DMU or Tourocom (except for Eel), I should also reiterate i'm a person who interviewed at both schools and who won't be attending either (I'll be at CCOM). So try to take that for some objectivity (though I'm admittedly from the midwest, so the prospect of living in Des Moines doesn't bother me).
     
  22. aaw2107

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    First, as far as pushing you into primary care, I've spoken to many physicians and this happens at all med schools--MD or DO. There is a huge need for primary care physicians in the US.

    Second, even though you don't HAVE to stay in Iowa after you graduate, DMU is certainly pushing for it by trying to keep all of their rotations in IA now. You used to be able to leave for 3rd and 4th years. Now, you must stay and the students don't seem particularly happy about it. For example, there aren't enough OB/GYNs in the area (severe shortage) so they cart you off to OH for six weeks.

    As far as Touro-NY being new...yes it is. But they have two other schools where the students have done very well (the matchlists seem great to me, but what do I know ;) ). This school was started with the help of some big guy from NYCOM, so there are connections. And it's in NYC. There is no shortage of anything. We will rotate with Columbia, Einstein, and NYCOM kids. I think that being a new school also has advantages. The administration wants the place to be successful, so they are responsive to the needs of the students. AND they might try that much harder to help you match because they, again, want the place to survive.

    The OP will make her decision, but these DMU people with the attitudes are probably the reason why I could not stand the place when I interviewed.
     
  23. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3

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    :laugh:

    Ummm No, We narrowed down locations to have better control and create a more consistant education , We use the biggest hospital system in des moines 900+ beds, a county hospital , and the VA, which are all teaching institutions, why not develop more rotations close to home, which alot of students want? Also, we do allow students to join the OHIO and MSUCOM system , and those are for the entire year so you dont ave to live out of your car , but can have a stable residence. 4th yearhas 2 rotations required and tgecrest elective anywhere

    Also with St. george, ross and the rest of the carib.


    Lastly my comment about being insult was with a :rolleyes: atitude not :mad:
     
  24. Eudjinn

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    "Toohotinvegas33

    List of SDN members who are morons.

    1.Colbert
    2.aaw2107"

    Classy. I would be embarrassed to call you a colleague.
     
  25. aaw2107

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    delete!!!!
    Sorry
     
  26. aaw2107

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    Is it a bad thing to rotate with students from the Caribbean? I don't know why this is a negative. There are MDs who would say that about DO students so I would keep the judgments to a minimum. Everyone has a reason for choosing where they go to medical school, right?
     
  27. meggielou

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    Eudjinn wasn't insulting you, he was pointing out Toohot's signature.
     
  28. Gold 5

    Gold 5 Stay On Target

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    Is this thread on the pre-allo or pre-osteo board?? My spidy sense detects a thread closing soon:p
     
  29. aaw2107

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    delete!!!
     
  30. aaw2107

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    OMG I know...I just realized that!!! I am so so sorry Eudjinn, I thought YOU said I was a moron. Congrats on NYCOM btw.

    Clearly I AM a moron when it comes to using SDN lololol ;)
     
  31. jp104

    jp104 Member

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    Just an aside...

    According to our dean, Touro-NY is not allowed to touch NYCOM's rotation sites for a certain period of time. It was one of the deals made when Touro-NY went before the accreditting board (COCA). Unless it's with 4th yrs on electives, NYCOM and Touro students won't be interacting much on rotations.
     
  32. PunkmedGirl

    PunkmedGirl Freshman Member

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    OP, go where your heart is telling you would feel most comfortable. Being in Iowa for 4yrs isn't bad nor is New York. It's all about where you want to go. You already know that DMU has a great reputation and is a fairly good institution. Touro-NYC may have the ability to be equally great, but just keep in mind you may have some growing pains with a new school. Good Luck on your decision.
     
  33. a817

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    To clear the record i would go to DMU in this situation, Touro is a lot of risk, and DMU has a great reputation and match list.

    Every one is entitled to their opinion, but think before you post something. NO ONE wants to hear that their school is a McTouro or people are offended that someone is comparing their school to another. They are paying 120k just for tuition plus insane amount of living expenses, and that is the last thing they want to hear. Try to be sensitive to the reader.

    By these posts future applicants will think Touro NY as one of lowest ranked schools, while they are not even any ranks for DO schools. The Stanford vs roslida franklin argument is irrelevant, and the difference is not that big even if they were ranked. Touro average mcat is on par with the DO average, maybe slightly higher.

    Many people chose this school over many other schools because of whatever reasons they might have, and feel passionately about their school. So you can see why aww and colbert are angry.
     
  34. aaw2107

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    I agree with you.

    I apologize if I offended anyone (esp. Eudjinn, who was actually on my side.
    Again congrats on NYCOM, you are set!)

    I am happy with my decision to go Touro-NY. The term "McTouro" doesn't really bother me to be honest...McDonald's is really successful now isn't it. :)
     
  35. a817

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    To the OP:

    It basically comes down to this. If you 100% believe in Touro mission then go to go to Touro. But if there is any thing you disagree with anything or dont want to be apart of it then go to DMU. Simple as that.

    But remember what touro mission is, which is to help the undeserved areas in NYC. This does not mean the entire city. Even though it is in Manhattan, this is not "sex and the city" Manhattan.

    When many people come to the interview, it hits them. If you want to work in Long Island, park avenue, downtown Manhattan this is the wrong school. The school is located in the inner city and is heavily populated, with a huge physician shortage. The school focus is to help the area around it.

    It's mission is to help people where poverty is the norm, where many individuals have not even seen physicians until it is too late, and have no information on preventative medicine. The hospitals around the area are undermanned and need help. You can see that from their preliminary rotation sites, that is what they are going to focus on.

    If this is what you want your career to be, then no one will prepare you like touro will. It is tough job, and not for most people. Think about that when you make your decision. Is that what you want? If so, you made your decision. vis versa

    If you want to dedicate your life to the undeserved urban communities, it will be a good, and rewarding experience

    Hope this helps
     
  36. Bond8204

    Bond8204 Anatomy Lab Crasher

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    You gotta love how peacefully even the most heated threads end up on this board. Pre-allo is barely readable anymore now that the next cycle has come out of the woodwork and started posting things like "How do you deal with people being jealous of your grades!?!?" and "Would volunteering in an orphanage in India be an ok summer break between freshman and sophomore year!?!?!"

    Coming to this board from that is like walking into a familiar room with friends and family.
     
  37. aaw2107

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    a817,
    Do you think it would really not be possible to practice in places other than Harlem after finishing at Touro??? I know this is in the mission statement, etc. But how can they force you to stay there? I am going to Touro-NY and do not intend to practice in Harlem. I know it will be a GREAT learning experience, though. I don't understand why going there would preclude you from practicing elsewhere, the same way going to medical school in Iowa doesn't prevent you from working outside of Iowa.
     
  38. well said:thumbup: As far as not wanting to practice in IA for the rest of your life, that's not a problem. I don't plan on staying in IA after third year. With respect to residencies, all of the DMU second years I have talked to seemed to be pleased with their 3rd yr rotation schedule, and I have not heard any complaints about the flexibility DMU's 4th allows with all the elective time they offer.
     
  39. Gold 5

    Gold 5 Stay On Target

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    You can practice in whatever field that you want. The school can not control you afterwords. There are no contracts other than you give them lots of money, pass their classes, pass your rotations and then you get your DO degree. After that what you do is what YOU want to do.
     
  40. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3

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    Proof from someone else that aaw2107 doesnt know what he/she is talking about. And if this is true where then are they going to rotate? Im sure columbia, nyu, and mount sanai are going to let tourocom have a wing of their hospitals so you can get excellent clinicals :rolleyes:
     
  41. Eudjinn

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    lawl. you really do fail at SDN!! :laugh::laugh: It took me a few minutes to realize exactly what was going on. But in your unwarranted :)D) counterattack against me you brought up a good point.

    I was in fact super excited about Touro NY and wanted to get in really badly. Touro was my very first interview and it came very unexpectedly (someone canceled and Obed offered me to interview a week before the actual date) so I was very much caught up in the excitement and my desire to get into any medical school was at its peak. This was two months before the NYCOM interview btw. Truthfully, I loved the school and the students seemed happy. My interview did not go well. It was a grill session and I was nervous. I was waitlisted.

    I really loved NYCOM as well and my interview went much much better, but I really had no reason to hate on Touro. They were the first to give me a shot. Honestly, I'm positive I would love it at either school.

    But yes, my original post was stating that toohot was acting like a 10-year-old by resorting to name calling and that it is an embarrassment to our profession that a colleague voicing his opinion is called a moron because the opinion differs... and btw I'm not saying that everything you are saying is wrong either, but your signature is in bad taste.

    close this thread IMO.
     
  42. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3

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    Its not a bad thing, but your school is going to have to compete for spots with them. Those schools pay good money for rotations that your school is going to have to match or do better to get them for you. I predict a good tuition hike in the future.
     
  43. Gold 5

    Gold 5 Stay On Target

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    Hi Auzzi,
    First let me tell you that I am biased since I am going to Touro. Two quick points that I don't think have been covered:

    1. Because Touro is in NYC, hopefully you should have a lot of PT diversity in your rotations. I'll let you know if this is true in a bit ;)

    2. Like most things in life, school is what you make out of it. You can be a good doctor coming from either institution or a lousy one. You are the one that has to study and sit down for your board exam not the school.
     
  44. aaw2107

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    TooHot,
    Aren't you in medical school already? Why do you spend so much time on a PRE-med forum?

    I've seen the list of hospitals that Touro is affiliated with and we share with many of the MD schools. Fortunately, I don't think there will be much competition as far as rotating because there are TONS of teaching hospitals here. I don't know where NYU and Mt. Sinai came from. Did I mention those without realizing it? Did I say hospitals were giving wings to Touro students? Maybe you know something I don't about the school's affiliations.

    Where do you think YOU are rotating? I've gone to many doctors in Des Moines and there always seems to be a DMU student watching and bitching about how they are stuck in Iowa and don't get to see a hell of a lot on their rotations.
     
  45. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3

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    Neurophys is pretty boring to me, so I frequent the premed area to educate the ignorant ones.
     
  46. aaw2107

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    So you must really take this "educating" seriously if you think anyone actually listens to "facts" they read on an anonymous internet forum.
     
  47. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3

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    There is alot of good information on SDN from people in the know (like me), the premed area is the worst area for info because it is full of ...well premeds who usually dont know more then what there school website tells them, which is also why it is the most heavily moderated.
     
  48. Jamers

    Jamers Sexy Man

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    This paragraph is full of assumptions that are entirely incorrect. Firstly, they do NOT make you stay in IA; you enter into a lottery and the results of our lottery are found below. We offer rotation sites in OH, MI, WY and IA. Second, the only sites where there is a question of OB rotations is Des Moines and NO you are not CARTED off to OH. Because of this, they have made arrangements with other locations in IA to accommodate students. I, for example, am doing my OB rotation in Mason City, IA. Finally, in forth year, you have 2 months of required rotations and 8 months of elective rotations; plenty of time to escape IA if you chose to stay in third year. Please, in the future, refrain from making assumptions about things you know little to nothing about.


    "All 163 students that participated in the lottery matched to either their 1st or 2nd choice site.
    144 students matched their 1st choice
    19 students matched their 2nd choice
    No one matched lower than their 2nd choice."

    This was for the Des Moines/Iowa/Michgan lottery.


    The remaining students not listed above got into OH and WY; I don't have the stats for those.

    Rotations are what YOU make of them. If you stand there bitching about stuff you will never learn anything. Sure, I have heard people complain but, people complain about everything; it's too hot, it's too cold, ect. However, I have heard far more people tell me they enjoyed their rotations. If you are going to take opinions, please remember that everyone has them and you need to listen to a majority before you going making the far reaching assumptions you just made in that paragraph; we have 230 students on rotations next year, let me know when you have listened to 116 of them complain and then I will hear you out.
     
  49. aaw2107

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    I may be wrong about the doctor shortage in IA affecting the rotations, but that's what I've heard from current students and an associate prof. who is good friends with my father. I know they are also adding Fort Dodge as a rotation site. I am VERY familiar with that area of Iowa (including Mason City, it's not so far away). I just don't know how you can compare what you would see there to what you see in NYC.

    I do not have a problem with DMU. A lot of people seem to like it and I have gone to excellent physicians who were educated there. I just personally would not go there. Just like many of you would not go to Touro.
     
  50. aaw2107

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    I just still don't understand why you CHOOSE to spend so much time on here. Maybe it makes you feel good to think you know so much more because you are one class ahead of most people.
     
  51. Jamers

    Jamers Sexy Man

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    There is a doctor shortage in IA and there is a push from the state to encourage students to stay but that doesn't mean they FORCE you to stay; there is also a push by the military to get recruits but that doesn't mean everyone is drafted.

    I have never compared NYC to DMU, I am just correct some assumptions you made; just like I don't make assumptions about Touro, I would expect you not to make them about DMU.
     
  52. aaw2107

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    I didn't think I was making assumptions. This was information I've heard because I grew up 1.5 hours drive from Des Moines with a father who is a practicing physician and DMU graduates in my house constantly.

    I thought this thread was a comparison between DMU and Touro. Obviously there are positives and negatives to both. I am not trying to insult DMU, Jamers. I really have no problem with it. You have some interesting classmates, however.
     

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