Traditional vascular route

[AsianPersuasion]

Hello Surgeons,

I really need some help. So I'm hoping to apply to a mix of I5 programs and GS programs that are known to not have the dedicated research years.

Couple of issues: 1) my step 1 is kinda trash for I5, hence, my vascular mentor told me to play it safe and just apply to GS and then fellowship after. My fiance is saying that I should also throw apps in for GS programs that have the dedicated research years required. He did it and wants me to do it too. The thing is I don't want to do research. I just want to be a vascular surgeon.

So my biggest question is, will this hinder my future chance of matching VS for fellowship if I went into a strictly 5 years GS residency? Everyone I've talked to have done 2 dedicated research years, which I'm starting to think that it's the norm. my problem is I just don't enjoy research in that sense and I have no desire to do academic surgery other than possibly doing clinical faculty etc.

Thank you!

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[LucidSplash]

You can do research without taking dedicated research time, and dedicated time definitely isn’t required to get a 5+2 fellowship. The most well-known places slant heavy academic but there are plenty of great programs out there that aren’t ivory towers.

You’ll want to do some research as a resident just to show you can and to understand the process, but it can be case series and clinical outcomes based; bench research isn’t necessary if you aren’t interested.

I did some research time but my program did it differently, instead of a solid year out we did blocks spread out through years 2-4. So all the chiefs were PGY6. No one did bench research. And we all worked on our research even when we weren’t on a research block, which is why I know it can be done without the dedicated time.

Most of my 5+2 friends in vascular did not do dedicated research time. Most went straight through in 5 years.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

You can do research without taking dedicated research time, and dedicated time definitely isn’t required to get a 5+2 fellowship. The most well-known places slant heavy academic but there are plenty of great programs out there that aren’t ivory towers.

You’ll want to do some research as a resident just to show you can and to understand the process, but it can be case series and clinical outcomes based; bench research isn’t necessary if you aren’t interested.

I did some research time but my program did it differently, instead of a solid year out we did blocks spread out through years 2-4. So all the chiefs were PGY6. No one did bench research. And we all worked on our research even when we weren’t on a research block, which is why I know it can be done without the dedicated time.

Most of my 5+2 friends in vascular did not do dedicated research time. Most went straight through in 5 years.

Ugh, thank you for this! The thought of bench research makes me want to die and rather get stuck in the circle of hell with a thousand ER consult for "smelly" wounds

Everybody I spoke to make it seems like if I don't have my name in JVS and do 2 years, I can kiss VS goodbye. I wouldn't mind clinical oriented projects without the dedicated time. My letters are good but I know that my step 1 will probably be a deal breaker for I5, which sucks cause I would love to dedicate my time directly to VS.

 

[SociableJimmy]

I’m at a large “communiversity” program that doesn’t have any formal time off for research. One of my current chiefs matched vascular at a big time northeast academic institute (essentially Ivy in everything but its name). He had pretty minimal research throughout his training. What helped him out greatly were the away rotations he did. He spent a couple months at some well known institutions and made good impressions on the right people who in turn made some very influential phone calls for him come application time. I’d argue that who you know that can make a call for you is equally if not slightly more important than any research output (as long as you’re not aiming for the most research-heavy of programs).

 

[Tradewinds]

What is your score? I mean if you are in the high 210's or 220's....I vote try for 0+5 IVS and 5 yr GS. I know IVS numbers are really competitive looking but there were 10 out of 46 US students last year accepted with a 221-230 range or below. If you really want VS and especially if you have good letters and some connections, why wouldn't you at least TRY for 0+5? There are at least a few community programs that don't seem to place as heavy an emphasis on scores as long as they can stand the candidate, see that they are hard working and have a genuine interest in the field. If you aren't interested in doing GS and or research, then don't sell yourself short and ONLY apply for those.....mentors and loved ones are great for support and advice but you know yourself best. At least give it a shot and don't spend the next 7+ years wondering what-if? If you have connections, have them make calls for you.

Also, did you check the vascular fellowship match data for applicant characteristics like research (not sure if it includes this)? The 6 fellows I have worked with over the last 2 years have ZERO dedicated research years between them, although some have published a few things along the way. (All are at community programs)