Transferring to another program

[Rhabdoid]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Dear all,

Some guidance needed here. Does anyone one have personal experience or know of anyone who has transferred to another Path program? Is it looked frowned upon? How do you go about telling your current program? What is the treatment like from attendings/other residents once they find out you're leaving?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Patho2009]

No body cares about you if you say that you will leave. The program director is the only person who might care. You also need him (even after you leave) for letter of reference and documentation of the training you accomplished.

You have to give your program director a solid reason to transfer. Conflicts with other people in the program or other silly reasons (don't like the city..etc) are not good reasons (in my opinion).

All those who transfered to or out of my prgram gave reasons related to " family". Whether this was true or not, they managed to transfer peacefully!!.

 

[KCShaw]

There's a fairly recent thread about this around here somewhere.

Basically, at some point you need to go to your program director and simply tell them, and be prepared to explain why. Most programs don't seem to care that much if you say you want to go -- generally if you don't want to be there/would rather be somewhere else, then they would just as soon not have you around leeching the life out of everyone else. That said, they also don't want to be known as a place residents transfer out of every year, as at some point it raises suspicions that it's either a malignant place or the training is poor (or both).

Unless you already have an "in" somewhere else, you may need your program director to help you with your search for a new program. There is (was, anyway) a program director email list, and it was semi-common for PD's to mention they had someone looking for a new spot, or that they had spots available.

For the most part it seems like transferring is only frowned upon if you don't handle yourself politely and professionally, or can't offer a reasonable explanation for wanting to transfer.

 

[Rhabdoid]

Thanks for sharing. I don't want to get too specific but I got a call from my home program asking if I was interested in a position for next year, I said I was. Nothing official yet. It has nothing to do with my current program being poor or malignant, and I don't want to give anyone that impression. I'm planning on doing this with utmost professionalism so I'm not too worried about that. My concern is having to go into work everyday with everyone knowing I'm on my way out, and how that's going to play out.

 

[KCShaw]

That depends on your current program, and you. I wouldn't expect to be targeted for any long-term projects there, and the program will have less reason to feel invested in you, but it's not like you should expect a horror story.

 

[Blind Guy]

My program (located in the mid west) was very difficult to leave. They would let people out after 2 years if they managed to find a fellowship. For people who wanted to change residency programs, they made your life miserable and threatened to torpedo your career. One person who had transferred from an IM program went back because they couldn't stop her due to her connections at her prior training institution. The rest of us were left to rot and endeavor to persevere. One person did prove that you could leave, but only after violating conditions of licensure for the second time.

 

[KCShaw]

Sounds like juvy.

 

[Rhabdoid]

That sounds pretty bad, I sure hope times have changed.

 

[Blind Guy]

It was more like the Old Bailey than juvenile detension (we only wished we had the option of deportation to Botany Bay). On a more positive note, I did meet a prelim rad resident whose girl friend was leaving the program to go to the same institution he had matched to. He wasn't relaying any horror stories to me, so maybe times have changed.

 

[zao275]

It was more like the Old Bailey than juvenile detension (we only wished we had the option of deportation to Botany Bay). On a more positive note, I did meet a prelim rad resident whose girl friend was leaving the program to go to the same institution he had matched to. He wasn't relaying any horror stories to me, so maybe times have changed.

Would you be willing to share the name of the program, or is that too personal? It would be nice for other applicants to be aware of these qualities when applying to programs.

 

[DocKodak]

Rhabdoid says: "I don't want to get too specific but I got a call from my home program asking if I was interested in a position for next year, I said I was."

To me this sounds borderline if not outright unethical for a program to do - initiating contact with someone already in another program. If all the top programs went after lesser programs' best residents each time they lost someone, there would be a lot of ugliness out there.

 

[Ephelis]

I transferred two years ago. The program was great, but my husband was MISERABLE (we were about 4 states away from "home"). I explained this to my program director. She was very supportive and even made a couple of calls for me. I didn't inititate the discussion until I had found several programs with openings to apply to. Everyone was pretty nice about my leaving. They understood my reasons. They even gave me some days off on Surgpath so I could move.

 

[Ephelis]

When I applied for fellowships, they did ask about my transferring, they seemed a little worried that I looked "flighty" vs. "decisive" (based on my transferring AND switching to CP only). I just convinced them I was decisive. And now I have a great fellowship for next year.

 

[Rouleaux]

So at what point do you have to let your PD know of your interest to transfer? Can you contact other programs on your own? On one hand you dont want your program to know and on the other you are worried that they might find out through the grapevine. Is there a best or professional way of transferring?

I have a feeling my PD will not be to happy (we had one leave a couple of years ago as well). I don't think they want the trend to start. That being said there is talk of others interested in leaving as well.

 

[Tissue issue]

YES they will be unhappy if you leave. Some will be more professional/reasonable about it. Your leaving reflects on the program - it's personal. That said, I have seen/heard of residents much happier after they made a switch. My advice- act professionally and ethically but don't announce you're leaving until you absolutely have to (not a moment sooner).

 

[mlw03]

My residency program had issues with this, and the PDs were not happy about it. As has been said, it reflects poorly on the program (and the PDs, to some degree). You have to know the personality of your PD I think. I agree with the above advice - unless you want some ticked off co-residents, I would not advertise your leaving until you have to. I also think acting professional helps - finish out your call, don't leave autopsy reports unfinished, etc.

 

[gbwillner]

My residency program had issues with this, and the PDs were not happy about it. As has been said, it reflects poorly on the program (and the PDs, to some degree). You have to know the personality of your PD I think. I agree with the above advice - unless you want some ticked off co-residents, I would not advertise your leaving until you have to. I also think acting professional helps - finish out your call, don't leave autopsy reports unfinished, etc.

I have seen quite a few people change from one program to another. We have had 4 residents leave our program in the last 4 years. It was never a problem and the PD was extremely helpful in helping them land other positions. The reasons were simple- first, the PD is a very nice person and second, all these people were leaving for valid personal reasons (OK, mostly valid). One decided they actually wanted to do IM and not pathology (they decided before even starting residency, but it was too late to switch after the match). They were actually cool enough to complete their first year of training as to not screw everybody over. The three others left because their significant others were moving for jobs in other cities. They all finished off their perspective years.

On the flip side, we've filled all those spots by cannabalizing other programs. We never publicly announced the openings, but every year, dissatisfied residents send their CV's to PDs with a note stating "Help, get me out of here!" . Typically, these residents are in a bad situation, and finalize plans to leave (with an actual accpetance) before telling ANYONE in their program (other than the PD). It is only reasonable to inform the PD and give them a chance to fill the spot you are about to leave. But I bet most don't even tell their PD until they are actually interviewing for the open positions.

 

[LADoc00]

My residency program had issues with this, and the PDs were not happy about it. As has been said, it reflects poorly on the program (and the PDs, to some degree). You have to know the personality of your PD I think. I agree with the above advice - unless you want some ticked off co-residents, I would not advertise your leaving until you have to. I also think acting professional helps - finish out your call, don't leave autopsy reports unfinished, etc.

Who cares? Seriously, looking back on residency do you think anyone even cares what the residency director thinks, especially of a program you are leaving? A program you leave isnt really even a source of a reference for a future employer...

I barely remember who was the chairman of my program, let alone the PD (I have no clue what the PD even did since the new residents were ranked by committee anyway).
Im not even 40 too, this isnt because of Im ancient.

 

[metabolite]

Was just wondering about the experiences of those who did transfer... since you are the new guy who is coming in at a senior level, were there any particular difficulties or conflicts?

 

[Torsed]

Not sure why everyone treats residency like citizenship in a country. Its not like you would be banned from anything in pathology if you change residency positions to another institution. I'd applaud you if want to make your life better and go elsewhere if the training is better/more intense. I know from first hand experience (my PD was a notch below whale crap) and with the exception of some faculty it was pretty sub par. My fellowship didn't care about my residency, again its a job and the more you learn just benefits oneself.

I would currently hire someone who can do the work and not get the group sued. I wouldn't care by what means they arrived at that position. I would concur with the previous post by Dr. Gardner that it would help to know of turdy programs so applicants can avoid like the plague.

 

[KCShaw]

I had no real issues moving into a smaller mid'ish sized academic program halfway through residency (from a small program). There was a little uncertainty as to how I would stack up I guess, and very minor fumbling while learning a new system, new politics/relationships, etc., but I got my feet wet on CP while jumping in on brief relevant parts of the 1st year's orientations. To me it felt pretty painless. Oddly I believe there were no 4th years at that time, so it was just me and a couple of very good 3rd years who were already there as more "senior", but also a large 2nd year class with several very good/knowledgeable residents among them so despite the odd balance of numbers I didn't feel too put on the spot supporting the younger crowd. Really, there were so many people who had been in the system a while that there was always someone keeping me from getting lost or reminding me X attending liked Y, etc. I think it depends a lot on the residents who are already there.

 

[zjczh]

Where can I find information about opening resient positions? My husband got a job offer that is 3000 miles away.

 

[Amylacea]

I am also looking to transfer for my last year to be closer to the SO. Seems like if my program director doesn't have any connections, it's pretty tough. Can't bear to go through the match again and there doesn't seem to be a list of open spots on any magic web site. I've emailed the program directors of where I want to go, but pretty much get the form letter response, "apply through ERAS". Ugh.

 

[mlw03]

Transfering for your last year only? That's going to be a tough sell.