Tri's Response to This pharmacist vs physician crap

[Triangulation]

Here we F'in go again. I'm so g@d d*mn tired of talking about this crap. This is a pharmacy forum for getting into and thru pharmacy school (like it says on the page to get to this board.) This isn't some weird abstract examination forum to figure out how pharmacy measures up to other professions. Honestly, that's for little kids with too much time on their hands. None of us have time to be sitting around trying to figure out wtf other people are thinking of what we're doing, we're too busy trying to learn the material and help people. If that's not your goal then stop bothering the rest of us that are.

I scored a 35Q on the August 2001 MCAT. I taught MCAT prep for Kaplan and i did research and volunteered. If med school was the end all be all for me, I would've made that happen. It didn't motivate me. I didn't feel the inspiration that I knew that decision would require, pharmacy, specifically pharmaceutical policy did inspire me.

I just sat thru a two hour lecture and quiz on the impact in reducing fatalities and hospitalization due to pharmaceutical care and consultation. The role we play is too important to sit around takin crap from butt munches who don't know what they're saying.

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[Triangulation]

If I didn't make myself clear: Stop egging these dip ****s on by getting all defensive. Don't worry none of these guys could figure out the Hammett-Taft equation to save their lives. Just let 'em rot alone.

 

[jj99]

Hey, I'm happy that you could have done whatever you wanted, but these @ssholes are rubbing it because they know it really burns some of us up.

I wanted to go to med school bad, but it didn't happen. Pharmacy was a backup plan, a darn good one I think now.

 

[Triangulation]

bump

 

[megabot]

Originally posted by Triangulation
bump

you are lying about the 35Q.

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by jj99
wanted to go to med school bad, but it didn't happen. Pharmacy was a backup plan, a darn good one I think now.

Did you apply DO and to the carribean schools. I think if anyone wants to be a doctor bad enough they can. You shouldn't settle for something.

 

[Triangulation]

you are lying about the 35Q.

I know several posters including a couple on the med forum who know me. I can show them the score report. Moreover, one of them now at the University of Rochester Med school, did Kaplan MCAT prep instructor training with me in Berkeley. I just finished tutoring a pre-med for MCAT who took the August exam.

If I lived where you lived I'd show it to you, and then I'd smack you upside the head.

 

[ucdbiochem]

Tri, that guy is just a pre-dent punk. just ignore him.

 

[lyzziebeth]

If you were in class, you'd see how smart he is.....

 

[LSUMED2006]

Originally posted by megabot
you are lying about the 35Q.

Get a life. Wow, pre dent...damn...good luck with that.

Tri, c'mon...is droppin your score really necessary? It's good, but no one cares.

"Don't worry none of these guys could figure out the Hammett-Taft equation to save their lives. Just let 'em rot alone."

...none of them...wrong. C'mon that's just stupid logic. That's like saying none of these pharmacists can do__________ (insert medical task), so the pharmacists should burn in hell.

Jason
38R...a damn panic attack during the verbal section cost me my 40.

 

[Triangulation]

thanks liz. Although, it's gonna be a long time before i develop your kick-@ss study stamina. I'd probably be passing Pharm Practice if i had a little more of that

Liz definitely has my vote for funnest phone conversation subject this week. Another chick in my class who I'm pals with not only told me that she thought Liz was "hot", but this time went into details why. GOOD STUFF!!!!!!

 

[lyzziebeth]

I think he's lying.....I'm going to ask her tomorrow when we work on our case studies...

 

[fun8stuff]

Not to offend the OP or any other pharmacists-in-the-making, but I really find it hard to believe the OP got a 35.... Pharmacy is great and all and at this point in time, it is absolutely necessary.

To the OP: You say pharmacy is a better motivator for u? Well, what I want to know is why? Have you ever worked in a pharmacy? I was a tech for 2 years and it was boring as hell. A pharmacist does little more than what a tech does... heck... after 3 (5 max) yrs most good techs know enough to keep a pharmacy safely running... sure, pharmacists learn a lot and are well trained. the training is interesting, but the very fact that I would use only about 2% of that once i graduated is not that big of an incentive. While working ever so often I would ask, "hey what's this used to treat" and most of the time they wouldtell me- they didnt always know. Then I would ask, "what is ______" (say menengitis- i started junior year of high school), and only a couple times did they specifically know what the illness was. Most of the time they told me, "gee... i used to know... looked it up on the computer". The only thing that is important to doing the job is how well you count and basic elementary math. Computers alert you of drug interactions and tell you what every drug does and is used to treat.

It won't be lall that ong before the pharmacists job is totally automated! There is very little a pharmacist does that a machine could not do, and do more acurately. Counsel patients on drugs? A computer can easily do that, given the people can read or hear. People like talking to people? Ha, that is what they said about the ATM. They said it wouldnt last, but its become more popular than ever. People like convenience, and standing in line at a pharmacy for 20 mins is not convenient. The automation has already begun: people being able to call in scripts over the phone and online, those machines that automattically count the pills (didnt have these at where i worked- dont know the name). I believe there are even a couple doctors offices that have incorporated a pharmacy that is almost completely automated, although they do have a pharmacist on hand to refill the bins, do paper work, and for legal reasons. But what kind of job is that?

Another thing: people dont like high costs. Healthcare is expensive. The general trend over the next several years will be to push toward cutting healthcare costs. One of the things to go will most likely be the pharmacist. A machine costs a lot less than 90k a year to run. Sure, they might keep a "pharmacist" around to mediate between customer and insurance company and perhaps fill the machines and guard the pills, i wouldnt bet on it.
It would be much more efficient to have say 10 small machines where people walk up to insert a card they got from the doctors office with their prescriptions encoded on the magnetic strip (alerady in the making), insert their credit card, and walk away with their drugs in minutes. Faster and more profit for pharmacies!

So for these reasons I wonder, why on earth would anyone who scored a 35 want to switch to pharmacy? For pete sakes, i have 3 friends who were very seriously thinking about pharmacy who scored in the 99 percentile and then switched to medicine (for reasons above) and all scored low 30s on the MCAT. I acutally think one scored mid 20s the first time taking the MCAT.

Okay, medicine is not the best thing, but surely just about any job would be more interesting and intellectualy stimulaing than standing for 12 hrs a day in some small back room counting pills and double checking what the techs did. Oh, I almsot forgot one thing: Arguing with insurance companies. What fun!


Sure you could take the pay cuts and do research or clinical. Clinical isn't that much better, but at least you serve to tell the lazy docs whats going on with the drugs and make sure people get the right stuff. Research would be great, but 30k a years is not that enticing after spending all that money on 6yrs of college. But still, all of these are very monotanous.

I worked with probably 6 or 7 pharmacists. 2 of them applied to med school, but did not get in. The younger couple were all about partying and going out and having a good time. The older ones did nothing but bitch about insurance and HIPPA problems and how much pharmacy has changed.

The older pharmacits personally told me to do the 2 extra years + residency and take all the extra options that comes a long with it. Twice as high pay, more respect, more intellectually stimulating job, better potential for future job security, job where i got a lunch break and time to sit down, etc, etc, etc.


I'm not saying that pharmacists are not important or that pharmacists are stupid. Pharmacists are very well educated... over educated. You have to be a relatively determined person to get through pharm school, and at this point in time, Pharmacists are a necessity to the healthcare system. Someone has to do it... but i have never heard of anyone switching from medicine to pharmacy because pharmacy seemd like a more interesting career... hahahah! I woudl say it would better to fuss up to the 25J score and admit to yourself you couldnt cut it.

Well, this post ended being a lot longer than planned. I hope I did not offend anyone, but I think it is imporant that you think about things before you dive right into them. It is also easy to say a lot of BS like, "I got a 35". HAHAH... and it is easy to look at a career and dive right in because you can make 90K in 6 yrs as easy as that!

 

[Samoa]

I can understand why someone with a high MCAT might want choose pharmacy over medicine. The reasons tend to be related to lifestyle and tolerance for risk (i.e. liability), need for autonomy, family responsibilities (or anticipation of them), and the degree to which you want your profession to define and determine everything else in your life. It generally has very little to do with intelligence, drive or academic ability.

It will be a very long time before the dispensing role of the pharmacist is completely automated. Every state board of pharmacy in this nation is composed primarily of pharmacists, who are not going let their practice acts be rewritten to eliminate the pharmacist's final check in some form or fashion, no matter HOW accurate the automated dispensing machines become.

Banking services are considered a market good, and as such the banking industry did not have laws requiring that transactions be conducted by a human teller, and so the rise of the ATM was unfettered by any but market forces. Pharmacy is regulated to protect the public health, and so change will be much slower.

 

[dgroulx]

I suppose I'm in pharmacy because I like learning about how drugs work. If I wanted to practice medicine, I most likely wouldn't have wasted time in medical school. I would have just gone the PA or NP route instead, since I already have my BS in biology.

I can't remember the last time I went to the doctor and actually saw a physician. Most offices are staffed with PAs and NPs. It's cheaper for the insurance companies. I can't remember even seeing one physician in the office during my last few years of going in for various ailments. This appears to be a growing trend.

With pharmacy, I know I will be working in the area where I live now and be making 90K a year when I graduate. There isn't any other field that can give me that kind of guarantee. Gold Standard Multimedia (Clinical Pharmacology) is also located in Tampa, if I choose to stay in the computer field.

 

[baggywrinkle]

"I was a tech for 2 years and it was boring as hell."

yawn, so don't be a pharmacist then.

Back when I was an active flight instructer I was retained by an OB/GYN to fly from Pueblo to Denver Centennial so he could pick up his King Air which was in the shop. We were still in the runup area when he got his first page. He handed the aircraft over to me and essentially spent the rest of the 45 minute flight on the phone with nurses putting out brushfires. This was also supposed to be some refresher instrument time for him - what a joke - he was in the middle of the ILS approach into centennial (IN THE SOUP -no less!) when he got yet another call and handed control over to me for the final approach. So much for refresher time. The frightening part was he planned to fly the King Air back to Pueblo by himself. There was a reason the old Bonanza was known as the fork tailed doctor killer and I can only hope that if he ever died of high speed
dirt poisoning that no one else was with him when he did it.

As a pharmacist I get to help people. That feels nice. The pay is very good for what I actually do because I am not paid for what I do and I am not paid for what I know. I am paid to be responsible when the scat hits the fan. This is totally enough liability exposure for me. When I walk out the door at the end of the day I am DONE. The only down side is the sheer volume of work some practice settings demand. So perhaps I will leave the medical field for respectable work and learn a trade that is mentally engaging and detail oriented. A well executed rolling bevel is it's own reward and most people wouldn't know one if it hit them in the head. Or I might go back to pharmacy school for the pharmD. Not necessarily because I need it - I don't. But at this mid-point in my career it would be nice to renew old skills and learn new ones. This is a profession that can be practiced long after most have given their retirement watch to their grandchildren - yet it does not require the dedication of the excellent surgeon I met while in Pueblo who was bored when his wife dragged him off to Hawaii on vacation. He couldn't wait to get back and do more surgery. At age seventy he was only just at his peak and really enjoying his game. The price he paid to get there was just too dear. Life is too short to devote so much time to mastering just one skill.

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle
"I was a tech for 2 years and it was boring as hell."

yawn, so don't be a pharmacist then.

Back when I was an active flight instructer I was retained by an OB/GYN ...

Yes, and OB/GYNs work the longest hours out of any doctors. I would not be an OB/GYN. There are OB/GYNs that all they do is deliver babies for 80 hrs a week. There are also ones who only do hysterectomies (sp?). That would be quite boring in my opinion.

There are many different options for an MD, providing you have good board scores. Radiology, Dermatology, Gastroenterology, Urology, ENT, Emergency Medicine, Opthalmology, Radiation Oncology, etc that work better hours (many 40-50hrs w/ lunch breaks), deal with different things everday, and make +200k soon after residency.

As for PAs, most doctors offices are stuffed with them because there are not enough FPs to go around. There is a shortage of doctors. Most polls indicate that most people would prefer to see a doctor instead of a PA. PAs were esablished by physicians in hopes that they would go and practice in underserved areas and to help out with the shortage. That stuff aside, if you want to be a Family Pracitioner, it might be better to be a PA if you don't mind the pay cut and don't mind being a physician ASSISTANT with less authority and respect. But, if I am going to do same thing as a doc, I am going to want to have the respect and money that a doctor makes.

To say you want to be a PA is like saying, "Yeah, I really love working in a pharmacy and counting pills but I dont want to go through the hassel of a 6 yrs of college, so I'm going to be a tech. That way I will do the same thing as a pharmacist, just get paid less."

That brings up some thing else... Have you guys heard of people going to college for 2 yrs to be a pharmacy Technician? Isn't that crazy?! Before I left there were 2 girls who pretty much said that exact quote above and were going to a technical/community college (Baker college) to be a tech. That has to be a waste of money.

 

[Caverject]

Originally posted by fun8stuff
That brings up some thing else... Have you guys heard of people going to college for 2 yrs to be a pharmacy Technician? Isn't that crazy?! Before I left there were 2 girls who pretty much said that exact quote above and were going to a technical/community college (Baker college) to be a tech. That has to be a waste of money.

It's a HUGE waste of money....that is if you plan on working for Walgreens or Eckerd! The tech course is quite helpful for people that are interested in hospital pharmacy, but can't cut the mustard in becoming a pharmacist. For me, I never had a course, I just kind of threw myself in the fire when I worked at hospital. I learned a lot in 9 months, but it would have been nice to know what I was doing prior to being hired! (For example, how to mix IV bags correctly) Of course, I was not planning on making a career out of it like some people so to each there own I guess!

 

[fun8stuff]

Originally posted by South2006
It's a HUGE waste of money....!

Exactly... All on job training for me. But you're right, "to each, there own."

 

[lyzziebeth]

Originally posted by fun8stuff
Have you ever worked in a pharmacy? I was a tech for 2 years and it was boring as hell. A pharmacist does little more than what a tech does... heck... after 3 (5 max) yrs most good techs know enough to keep a pharmacy safely running... sure, pharmacists learn a lot and are well trained. the training is interesting, but the very fact that I would use only about 2% of that once i graduated is not that big of an incentive. While working ever so often I would ask, "hey what's this used to treat" and most of the time they wouldtell me- they didnt always know.

I'm sorry to say but there is more to pharmacy than community pharmacy. DO NOT make the assumption that just because the pharmacist you spoke to didn't know what the disease was specifically means that ALL pharmacists don't know what it is....

 

[Triangulation]

fun8stuff,

Geesh you're a little punk. You're logic would lead us nowhere. Any of us can say anything on these boards and the reply could be : I don't believe you. Case in point. I don't belive that you ever worked in a pharmacy. I don't believe you spoke with pharmacists. I don't believe you're gonna make it into health care, bc i don't believe you've got what it takes.

Have you read the posts on this board? I'm not even gonna work in a pharmacy as a career. I'll be working at a policy institute when you're pulling your hair out running from ten minute appt to ten minute writing out scripts for viagra and diflucan.

Why is it that applications in med school in California are dropping like rocks, while pharm school apps are exploding. What do they all know that you don't?

Why is that the congress is setting aside monies to deal with the shortage in pharmacy? why did they allocate funds in the medicare bill for specifically to pay pharmacists for pharmaceutical care: Which to put in terms you'll understand to act as oversight for doctors who don't understand the meds they're prescribing. Our ambulatory care pharmacists rolls his eyes whenever he talks about pt drug reviews that he performs with the medical team: dangerous redundancies, out-dated therapies, and little monitoring of appropriate dosage.

Just about any pharmacist in the field has got some knock your socks off stories of doctors messing up and pharmacists having to clean up the mess. Don't tell me about my profession, and I'll let you enjoy yours.

 

[GravyRPH]

I thought we agreed these threads were pointless, useless, and added nothing to what this forum is supposed to be about. It's not about who can piss farther. Any pharmacist who has been practicing for awhile knows that doctors and pharmacists alike can screw up and it takes a whole health care team to prevent it from exploding in your face.
Don't get too cocky tri, you may end up eating your words when you call a doctor with that attitude and find out you were wrong. Or having to call a doctor to tell them you misfilled a prescription. (Yes, I read you're going into policy, but time has a funny way of changing things)

 

[Triangulation]

Gravy,

Hey I want these threads to go away too, but lame-@sses calling me a liar is gonna engender some feedback from me. This dude obviously is doing his best ostrich head-in-the sand impression.

I think it's ridiculous to start firing cannonballs at any of these professions, which are so vital for the quality of life and maintenance of our country (and I honestly look at it that way), but I'm gonna return fire when fired upon

 

[lilmk]

Originally posted by fun8stuff
Pharmacy is great and all and at this point in time, it is absolutely necessary.

To the OP: You say pharmacy is a better motivator for u? Well, what I want to know is why? Have you ever worked in a pharmacy? I was a tech for 2 years and it was boring as hell. A pharmacist does little more than what a tech does... heck... after 3 (5 max) yrs most good techs know enough to keep a pharmacy safely running... sure, pharmacists learn a lot and are well trained. the training is interesting, but the very fact that I would use only about 2% of that once i graduated is not that big of an incentive. While working ever so often I would ask, "hey what's this used to treat" and most of the time they wouldtell me- they didnt always know. Then I would ask, "what is ______" (say menengitis- i started junior year of high school), and only a couple times did they specifically know what the illness was. Most of the time they told me, "gee... i used to know... looked it up on the computer". The only thing that is important to doing the job is how well you count and basic elementary math. Computers alert you of drug interactions and tell you what every drug does and is used to treat.

It won't be lall that ong before the pharmacists job is totally automated! There is very little a pharmacist does that a machine could not do, and do more acurately. Counsel patients on drugs? A computer can easily do that, given the people can read or hear. People like talking to people? Ha, that is what they said about the ATM. They said it wouldnt last, but its become more popular than ever. People like convenience, and standing in line at a pharmacy for 20 mins is not convenient. The automation has already begun: people being able to call in scripts over the phone and online, those machines that automattically count the pills (didnt have these at where i worked- dont know the name). I believe there are even a couple doctors offices that have incorporated a pharmacy that is almost completely automated, although they do have a pharmacist on hand to refill the bins, do paper work, and for legal reasons. But what kind of job is that?

Another thing: people dont like high costs. Healthcare is expensive. The general trend over the next several years will be to push toward cutting healthcare costs. One of the things to go will most likely be the pharmacist. A machine costs a lot less than 90k a year to run. Sure, they might keep a "pharmacist" around to mediate between customer and insurance company and perhaps fill the machines and guard the pills, i wouldnt bet on it.
It would be much more efficient to have say 10 small machines where people walk up to insert a card they got from the doctors office with their prescriptions encoded on the magnetic strip (alerady in the making), insert their credit card, and walk away with their drugs in minutes. Faster and more profit for pharmacies!

oooh. i know i'm so gonna get flamed but i cannot totally disagree with this. these are my worries exactly.

 

[lilmk]

Originally posted by lyzziebeth
DO NOT make the assumption that just because the pharmacist you spoke to didn't know what the disease was specifically means that ALL pharmacists don't know what it is....

i'm sorry but i'm seeing this more and more in the pharmacists i work with (not all of course). depending on where you work, it can be easy to forget stuff that was learned years ago. hey, i forget stuff moments after i turn in my exam, literally. and depending on the school, disease state may or may not be very heavily emphasized (i hear that SC is really working to change the awful state of the curriculum for you guys after getting many complaints from employers that SC pharmacists don't know jack. so hopefully you guys will benefit).

but anyway, a lot of the pharmacists i work with don't remember a lot of things they learned in school too well. this not cuz they are stupid though...this is cuz some of them don't use that knowledge too often in their particular setting so the knowledge gets lost. and also, some schools just sort of mention important things in passing (*cough* USC *cough*) cuz it's not gonna be on the boards--great.
anyway, my point is that it is not all that uncommon to encounter less than knowledgable pharmacists for the reasons described above. (of course all our wonderful pharmacists on this forum kick bootay! we all know that. and hopefully, us newbies will do our best to be the type of pharmacists who can explain to the tech what meningitis is! )

once again, my meager 2 cents. (sorry, i know i'm not helping your case against that fun8 dude but i'm just being honest)



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GravyRPH
Or having to call a doctor to tell them you misfilled a prescription.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OMG, i have nightmares about this.

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by lilmk
hey, i forget stuff moments after i turn in my exam, literally. and depending on the school, disease state may not be very heavily emphasized

Different schools have different curriculums. At UF, we don't get to learn any drugs until the 2nd year. It seems like the entire 1st year is disease states. Next year, I have to apply the drug knowledge I am learning to those disease states. If I forget any of the pathophysiology, I won't pass.

 

[lilmk]

that's awesome, dana. that's exactly the type of structure i was proposing to faculty when they asked me my opinion (heavy emphasis on dz state in first year and hard core on the drugs for 2nd and 3rd year). you know what? we don't get much into drugs until our 3rd year. and 4th year is all rotation. so a lot of students are feeling like we're rushing through our drugs (thought this was supposed to be PHARMACY school). the administration has recognized this and are in the process of doing a complete overhaul. for a while i thought it was just me who thought that something is really wrong. but a lot of other students and faculity recognize this problem. fortunately, the level1 students will be receiving this new and improved curriculum. it really can't get any worse than what we have now.

dana, you said you were into computers? i think computers and pharmaceuticals make a great combination that you should really explore. i would if i wasn't such a computer idiot.

Originally posted by dgroulx
If I forget any of the pathophysiology, I won't pass.

you'll do great.

 

[SteveL]

Originally posted by lilmk

but anyway, a lot of the pharmacists i work with don't remember a lot of things they learned in school too well. this not cuz they are stupid though...this is cuz some of them don't use that knowledge too often in their particular setting so the knowledge gets lost. and also, some schools just sort of mention important things in passing (*cough* USC *cough*) cuz it's not gonna be on the boards--great.
anyway, my point is that it is not all that uncommon to encounter less than knowledgable pharmacists for the reasons described above.

Agreed. Most of the pharmacists I know don't seem to have a lot of knowledge about a specific disease state. You don't use it, you lose it. They mainly lose it probabaly because there is no need for it. Most patients know that if they think they have strep/whatever, to go see their doc. I have to admit though that the new pharmDs some of the schools are producing now know quite a bit of info on a pleth of subjects. As mentioned though, this is prob because it's still fresh in their minds..

Besides the point, I really wouldn't care to try and diagnose a problem like that anyway. I would prefer to just get your script and talk to you about the drug. Good thing that's my job

 

[oldtimer]

I'm a little late to this discussion, but I agree with a lot of what fun8stuff said. I think a few pharm people on here overestimate their self-importance to customers. Sure, pharmacists are supposed to identify potential drug conflicts, but that information can be programmed into a computer. Not only would a computer have a larger knowledge database but it is also cheaper over the long run and doesn't ask for overtime. When I go to a pharmacy, I just want my prescription filled. I don't want conversation. If I have a question about my medication, I go talk to my doctor, not the pharmacist. Therefore, I would have no problem getting my prescription filled using a kiosk or an online pharmacy, as long as the supplier can guarantee me the quality of the medication. I would find these alternatives more convenient and hopefully cheaper to the traditional pharmacist. As long as procedures and laws are in place to guarantee the safety of the drug supply, I think many of the tasks done by pharmacists today can be automated and help reduce overall healthcare costs. Drug costs afterall are a major cause of the escalating healthcare premiums. Unlike the physician, I think that pharmacists are more susceptible to business pressures.

My .02 cents

 

[baggywrinkle]

Originally posted by oldtimer
Therefore, I would have no problem getting my prescription filled using a kiosk or an online pharmacy, as long as the supplier can guarantee me the quality of the medication. I would find these alternatives more convenient and hopefully cheaper to the traditional pharmacist.
My .02 cents

When your cheap online prescription arrives from Indonesia containing loose unidentified tablets in a baggy pleez don't bother whinging to your local board of pharmacy. Speak with your physician - he'll know what to do.

When your premature infant requires prilosec suspension or your arthritic wife would like some ibuprofen gel to ease her pain and the kiosk won't cough it up on demand - speak with your physician - he'll know what to do.

When your senile parent dumps all his tablets into the same bottle don't bother calling your local pharmacist, if you know where to go online you can sort them out yourself or speak with your physician, he'll know what to do.

When your darling grandchild comes to visit infesting the entire household with creepy crawlies leaving you itching for an answer at three in the morning - pleez don't call me, I'm busy with people who appreciate my services. Go to the ER and ask the physician on duty. His answer will come much faster and be more cost effective than anything I could possibly say.

When you are on vacation and left your heart medication sitting on the table at home - don't come whinging to me that you need a three day supply to get you home. Speak with your physician if you can get him on the phone or go to the ER. I don't think beating on the kiosk will get you very far.

When you are diabetic and caught in a natural disaster, don't come mooching to me for enough insulin and syringes to get you through. Talk to the Kiosc if there is power or head to the ER and wait along with everyone else to speak with the overworked physician.

 

[oldtimer]

"as long as the supplier can guarantee me the quality of the medication"

As I said before, if the quality can be guaranteed either through the proper procedures, processes, laws, etc, I personally have no problem with buying my medications through alternative sources. To accomodate alternative methods, suppliers may package their products differently to ensure quality. Try to think "outside of the box".

Just because something has been done the same way for a long time doesn't mean it will in the future. The internet has changed many ways people have conducted business. Ask yourself this, when you bought your last plane ticket or reserved your last car, did you do it online? Maybe you bought your groceries or books online. And on and on. Of course, the traditional way won't go away overnight. You can still buy your books at the local Barnes & Noble. Pharmacists will still be counting pills behind the counter for a long time to come. However, if the new method offers a compelling reason because it is more convenient, cheaper, etc, I would bet that more and more people will gravitate toward this new channel. That's business 101.

 

[PimplePopperMD]

Originally posted by baggywrinkle

When your senile parent dumps all his tablets into the same bottle don't bother calling your local pharmacist, if you know where to go online you can sort them out yourself or speak with your physician, he'll know what to do.

"Yeah, doctor, I take the yellow one and half the white triangular one".

We physicians know close to nothing about the colors/shapes of the medications we write for. It's frustrating!

It's always good to know that there are good pharmacists looking at our scripts, as a double-checker.

Kudos!

It's always a pleasure rounding with pharmacists in the hospital; I wish there were more clinictal pharmacists, as they absolutely contribute in a positive way not only to patient care, but to physician education. We *can't* know it all, and having a drug expert handy is enlightening.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Originally posted by oldtimer
"as long as the supplier can guarantee me the quality of the medication"

As I said before, if the quality can be guaranteed either through the proper procedures, processes, laws, etc, I personally have no problem with buying my medications through alternative sources. To accomodate alternative methods, suppliers may package their products differently to ensure quality. Try to think "outside of the box".

Just because something has been done the same way for a long time doesn't mean it will in the future. The internet has changed many ways people have conducted business. Ask yourself this, when you bought your last plane ticket or reserved your last car, did you do it online? Maybe you bought your groceries or books online. And on and on. Of course, the traditional way won't go away overnight. You can still buy your books at the local Barnes & Noble. Pharmacists will still be counting pills behind the counter for a long time to come. However, if the new method offers a compelling reason because it is more convenient, cheaper, etc, I would bet that more and more people will gravitate toward this new channel. That's business 101.

Who guarantees the quality? It isn't the supplier I assure you. The unscrupulous supplier suffers from a conflict of interests.

I agree with you totally and will be among the first online to try the new systems out. Your argument is very timely and is being debated in the halls of congress and the offices of FDA as we speak. The argument is striking a balance between doing it cheaply and doing it safely. My example of the pills loose in the baggy actually happened. It was cited in a position paper by the National Association of Boards of Pharmacy who are charged with ensuring public safety when they opposed the importation of Canadian drugs. There is nothing wrong with Canadian drugs or the Canadian drug system per se. But there are no guarantees and no safeguards in place to ensure that you are actually buying Canadian drugs at all or that they are being processed by a licensed pharmacist in a licensed pharmacy rather than by a high school drop out from his garage - or worse by a terrorist seeking a route to import adulterated or misbranded drugs. At the moment, ordering online out of country does an end run around the entire health care system where no regulatory body has jurisdiction. So the irony is, when the upset consumer complained to the board of pharmacy there was nothing the board could do. Welcome to the world of buyer beware.

America sports one of the most expensive health care systems in the world. Costs need to be cut - somehow. This argument is not new, only the venue has changed. We have evolved a system of healthcare which possesses checks and balances which will obviously have to change under economic pressure. But careful what you change least you find yourself faced with problems which were solved long ago. Food Drug and Cosmetic Act of 1938 was signed into law because of economic pressure to cut costs when a company compounded sulfanilamide suspension with a cheap(er) vehicle - ethylene glycol - resulting in many deaths. Can't happen today? Think again and think carefully.

There are good and valid reasons that there are regulatory bodies which set standards and require licensing. A high schooler can count tablets. They do it all the time - they are called technicians. But they bear no responsibility or accountability for what they do because their work is supervised by someone who is trained and is accountable. Strip that away and what is to keep me or anyone else from hanging out my shingle and offering to do brain sugery?

I have said it before and I will say it again. I am not paid for what I do. I am not paid for what I know. I am paid to be accountable when something goes wrong. I could care less that you ask me about the medication. I will do my best to find an answer if you do. But I am OBLIGED under Federal and State law (Obra '90) to offer you counseling and I am held accountable should I fail to do so. This is an attempt to empower the public through knowledge and is actually a radical about face from the pharmacist of the fifties who would have refused to say anything about the drug at all. He would have told you to talk to your physician.