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FalconSlice

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Just as a messenger as I saw this on Reddit, but wanted to post here for the SDN community as, if you're like me, and don't frequent reddit as often as others.

A student suing UTSW medical school and the associated dean (and some others) for expelling him with spurious information from a vicious/disgruntled ex-fiancée. The attached publicly available court documents are a very interesting read


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Cheers!
FS
 

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Wow, I thought this was gonna be about the malignant peds program. Looks like the school's malignant too
 
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sloop

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With the caveat that all of this is at the motion to dismiss phase, so the court has not yet begun to try substantive fact, here are my thoughts:

1. The gender discrimination claims are probably the most tenuous of the remaining claims the plaintiff has. A lot of it is going to depend on further details about how the case was actually investigated and decided by the administration. I still think it’s possible that he could win this claim but it seems like a bit of a long shot.

2. The procedural due process claims seem stronger. A lot of this is probably going to come down to what was considered in the decision making process, whether the plaintiff was actually offered an opportunity to cross-examine witnesses, whether he was given an opportunity to respond the the audio tape before expulsion, and what the contents of the audio actually were.

A lot can change once discovery actually gets started. We probably don’t even have the tip of the iceberg. However, I agree that even if half of what the plaintiff alleges is true, that is extremely worrying.
 
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With what's in the document attached, this seems to have more to do with Title IX insanity than a malignant school admin.
 
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Remember, we're only seeing one side of the story. This is very similar to the Khouri case at Kaiser.

UTSW is not obligated to telegraph their side.

Medical schools do not dismiss students for trivial reasons. Rest assured that multiple lawyers have gone over this to make sure that the schools actions are defensible, if not actually Bulletproof.
 
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sloop

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Remember, we're only seeing one side of the story. This is very similar to the Khouri case at Kaiser.

UTSW is not obligated to telegraph their side.

Medical schools do not dismiss students for trivial reasons. Rest assured that multiple lawyers have gone over this to make sure that the schools actions are defensible, if not actually Bulletproof.
This isn’t entirely true. Both the plaintiff and the defendants have made claims, and all of those are outlined in the documents. What is true is that right now they are at motion to dismiss so there hasn’t been any discovery. We have claims from both sides but the courts have not actually considered evidence from either side. The other problem with motion to dismiss documents is that they can easily read as one person having a better case than they do—usually the plaintiff. As mentioned in the document, motion to dismiss only considers the merit of the plaintiff’s claims if true. It is meant to prevent frivolous lawsuits. Even people with weak cases can have a good lawyer draw up claims with facial merit.

All of this said, based on the claims we can infer a few things. It does sound like the plaintiff is prepared to present expert evidence that the recording was altered. Additionally, the court seems ready to interpret the procedural due process claims in such a way that the plaintiff is fundamentally entitled to see all the evidence factoring into a decision to expel and have the opportunity to respond, up to and including cross-examining witnesses.

I think the critical issue is related to the procedural due process claims. Specifically, I think it is going to turn on whether or not the school actually dismissed the charges, then summarily expelled the student on new evidence without a new hearing. If this is true, this would seem to be a major problem for the defendants based on the way the court is interpreting the law.

Also, my guess is that there is going to be some evidence that the student was not actually afforded a hearing. The plaintiff’s lawyer does not seem stupid. These types of things usually have a paper trail. I don’t think they would bother making this claim if there was likely to be strong evidence that the plaintiff was actually afforded a hearing. Also, it does not seem like the defendants actually dispute this point. Their claims, instead, seem to imply that there’s no proof that they considered new evidence and that it’s not clear that the plaintiff is entitled to cross-examine witnesses in an expulsion proceeding. The court has already dismissed these points, calling the first “specious” and stating that given disputes about the credibility of the evidence and the testimony of the alleged victim, at minimum the plaintiff should have been afforded the opportunity to see the evidence against him, respond and cross-examine the alleged victim.

So overall, I agree that we don’t know the full story. Neither does the court, as discovery hasn’t happened yet. However, some of the plaintiff’s claims would be very problematic for the defendants in the context of the law as interpreted by the court. Additionally, some of these same claims don’t actually appear to be disputed by the defendants.
 
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Wow, I thought this was gonna be about the malignant peds program. Looks like the school's malignant too

Yeah I did too. It’s funny, I actually told someone if they treat residents as ****ty as they do (people from other specialties there said they treat residents like crap in fields other than peds), how good could they be to their students?
 
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Lawpy

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Just as a messenger as I saw this on Reddit, but wanted to post here for the SDN community as, if you're like me, and don't frequent reddit as often as others.

A student suing UTSW medical school and the associated dean (and some others) for expelling him with spurious information from a vicious/disgruntled ex-fiancée. The attached publicly available court documents are a very interesting read


Discuss

Cheers!
FS
Why does this guy get expelled but the Miami guy posting a political death threat gets to stay? I know it's different schools but this huge variation in what's expulsion worthy vs what's not between schools is completely absurd
 

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Also, according to PACER, this case went into settlement in June-July and was terminated on August 5, 2020. The case was ultimately dismissed with prejudice. It would be interesting to know what the settlement agreement entailed but, as far as I can tell, that information is not publicly available.
 
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Yeah I did too. It’s funny, I actually told someone if they treat residents as ****ty as they do (people from other specialties there said they treat residents like crap in fields other than peds), how good could they be to their students?
Is there a thread regarding malignant residency programs at UTSW? I'm not really familiar with the school but am considering attending and would be grateful for any info (either in support of or countering the notion that the resident culture is toxic). Thanks!!
 

Matthew9Thirtyfive

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Is there a thread regarding malignant residency programs at UTSW? I'm not really familiar with the school but am considering attending and would be grateful for any info (either in support of or countering the notion that the resident culture is toxic). Thanks!!

There’s a thread on Reddit about their peds program and some other residents chimed in.
 
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Also, according to PACER, this case went into settlement in June-July and was terminated on August 5, 2020. The case was ultimately dismissed with prejudice. It would be interesting to know what the settlement agreement entailed but, as far as I can tell, that information is not publicly available.
The case to dismiss was dismissed? Or the ex-student's case?

Moral of the story: always run from the crazy.
 

sloop

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The case to dismiss was dismissed? Or the ex-student's case?

Moral of the story: always run from the crazy.
The student brought suit based on multiple claims. Initially he named two administrators involved in his suit and the school itself. The defendants filed a motion to dismiss on multiple grounds. Ultimately, the motion was denied in part and granted in part. The dismissals that were granted related to jurisdictional issues. For instance, the claims against UTSW itself were dismissed because, under the eleventh amendment, you can’t sue a state in federal court. Claims against the administrators in their official capacity were similarly dismissed as this is effectively a suit against the state itself and also runs afoul of the eleventh amendment. However, the court still allowed the student to sue the administrators in their individual capacities for prospective injunctive relief. It also deferred the question of whether he could sue the administrators in their individual capacities for damages, pending further limited discovery. The end result is that several claims remained undismissed, including claims for injunctive relief against the administrators in their individual capacities as well as possible claims for damages against the administrators on the basis of gender discrimination and procedural due process violations.
 
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Why does this guy get expelled but the Miami guy posting a political death threat gets to stay? I know it's different schools but this huge variation in what's expulsion worthy vs what's not between schools is completely absurd
Uhhhh are you actually asking this? The Miami guy threatened a disliked republican. Have you ever met a med school administrator? No way they would kick someone out for that. Threaten Kamala Harris? Now that’s worthy of expulsion
 
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Lawpy

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Uhhhh are you actually asking this? The Miami guy threatened a disliked republican. Have you ever met a med school administrator? No way they would kick someone out for that. Threaten Kamala Harris? Now that’s worthy of expulsion
I know, they're very biased and i hate they have the power to expel someone so inconsistently
 
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Remember, we're only seeing one side of the story. This is very similar to the Khouri case at Kaiser.

UTSW is not obligated to telegraph their side.

Medical schools do not dismiss students for trivial reasons. Rest assured that multiple lawyers have gone over this to make sure that the schools actions are defensible, if not actually Bulletproof.

Or perhaps school is afraid to get some bad press from the media. Just a thought.
 
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Redpancreas

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This seems like an institution unwilling to admit that they overreacted. As defendants, they are not dismissing/contradicting the essence of his claim which is that they dismissed him with insufficient (doctored) evidence. They are merely making weak arguments like "there's no evidence the audio is what led to expulsion" when it was unquestionably the reason just looking at the timeline...or that "this was not 100% gender-discrimination" which I agree is hard to prove. At the end of the day, they failed to conduct due process as any reasonable exploration will find and thus wrongfully ended this man's career in medicine...Unless we are just missing a major component which is plausible...but it's equally plausible that UTSW doesn't want this to hit the major media.

The guy is suing for a ton of $$$ because he has to make up for the losses and because no other school's going to take him. Even if one did, he's already delayed his path by 6 years (*250K=$1.5 million). UTSW won't take him back because then they're admitting they made a mistake and the media's not going to overlook that either. Really a sad sequence of events that just goes to show life isn't fair. I hope he at least gets a reasonable 7 figure settlement to provide him with the capital to start doing something else he finds meaningful.
 
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ElCapone

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Uhhhh are you actually asking this? The Miami guy threatened a disliked republican. Have you ever met a med school administrator? No way they would kick someone out for that. Threaten Kamala Harris? Now that’s worthy of expulsion
Or perhaps school is afraid to get some bad press from the media. Just a thought.

Or a combination: The neoliberal adminsitrator class running these places has become far less forgiving and far more emboldened. Especially since the media not only gives them a pass but also supports them.

Welcome to how The Cathedral operates. It's not a bug, but a feature
 
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Redpancreas

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Or a combination: The neoliberal adminsitrator class running these places has become far less forgiving and far more emboldened. Especially since the media not only gives them a pass but also supports them.

Welcome to how The Cathedral operates. It's not a bug, but a feature
What? The term I'd use would be blindingly socially liberal unless I'm missing something. Genuinely curious, I've heard the word neoliberal thrown out a lot by Yang/Bernie supporters (ex. The Hill's 'Rising' show) criticizing the Obama/Biden policy and never actually figured out what they mean by neoliberal.

Educate me on how relates to someone making this sort of mistake.

 
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ElCapone

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What? The term I'd use would be blindingly socially liberal unless I'm missing something. Genuinely curious, I've heard the word neoliberal thrown out a lot by Yang/Bernie supporters (ex. The Hill's 'Rising' show) criticizing the Obama/Biden policy and never actually figured out what they mean by neoliberal.

Educate me on how relates to someone making this sort of mistake.

Neoliberals are the mostly white professional class occupying prominent positions in academia and the corporate world (doctors, lawyers, journalists, professors, corporate managers etc). They favor some combination of capitalism and social welfare (eg Obama insurance coverage) but are against stronger public social welfare (eg Medicare for all) or free market ideology. Essentially corporate socialists. They *more likely* grew up in significantly wealthier than average zip codes, had two college-educated white-collar parents, and attended private schools.

The key distinguishing characteristic is that they are heavily identatarian. Social identity (race, gender, sexuality, etc) are more important to them than social class. They turn a blind eye to hostile (even illegal) behavior against right-wingers, but call for the full force of the law to apply to any right-wingers engaging in similar behavior against them.

See "Coming Apart: The State of White America" for more: Amazon product
 
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Redpancreas

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Neoliberals are the mostly white professional class occupying prominent positions in academia and the corporate world (doctors, lawyers, journalists, professors, corporate managers etc). They favor some combination of capitalism and social welfare (eg Obama insurance coverage) but are against stronger public social welfare (eg Medicare for all) or free market ideology. Essentially corporate socialists. They *more likely* grew up in significantly wealthier than average zip codes, had two college-educated white-collar parents, and attended private schools.

The key distinguishing characteristic is that they are heavily identatarian. Social identity (race, gender, sexuality, etc) are more important to them than social class. They turn a blind eye to hostile (even illegal) behavior against right-wingers, but call for the full force of the law to apply to any right-wingers engaging in similar behavior against them.

See "Coming Apart: The State of White America" for more: Amazon product

Thanks, appreciate the explanation.
 
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Neoliberals are the mostly white professional class occupying prominent positions in academia and the corporate world (doctors, lawyers, journalists, professors, corporate managers etc). They favor some combination of capitalism and social welfare (eg Obama insurance coverage) but are against stronger public social welfare (eg Medicare for all) or free market ideology. Essentially corporate socialists. They *more likely* grew up in significantly wealthier than average zip codes, had two college-educated white-collar parents, and attended private schools.

The key distinguishing characteristic is that they are heavily identatarian. Social identity (race, gender, sexuality, etc) are more important to them than social class. They turn a blind eye to hostile (even illegal) behavior against right-wingers, but call for the full force of the law to apply to any right-wingers engaging in similar behavior against them.
Damn, seems like the perfect ideology to me.
 
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