MD & DO Trouble learning from verbal presentations

[FishermanDon99]

i've noticed lately that is difficult for me to follow and retain information that is presented to me less formally in verbal presentations. For instance, in anatomy, just listening to the facilitator does not work well for me. I don't remember anything that has been said shortly after. I think it might be slightly due to an attention thing but even when i repeat what was just said it's gone. I usually read things over several times or write them so this wasn't a problem until now. I have just noticed that some of my classmates have picked up on anatomy rather quickly and I think it might be due to that. This is just concerning me because I know during rotations physicians may try to quiz us on stuff they may have said earlier and those are grades that actually count versus the rest of curriculum which is pass fail.

Any tips on how to improve with this? Any books on how to improve learning? Anything helps.

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[Goro]

Suggest talking to your doctor

 

[aldol16]

Figure out a way to learn that works for you. Not all people are audio listeners. That's completely okay. Just find a way that works. Maybe after they say it, you write it down. Or at least write down the stuff that you don't understand or the most important points so that you remember them later.

During clerkships, people don't generally ask you what they asked you earlier. Unless they're dinguses. They might ask you follow up questions on the same concept though and other people might ask you the same question. You'll notice that some questions are more pimpable than others. You'll get the same questions from multiple attendings and you should remember those.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Have you had to do any patient interactions yet? Do you have to write down everything the patient says while you are in the room?

 

[FishermanDon99]

Have you had to do any patient interactions yet? Do you have to write down everything the patient says while you are in the room?

I have done mock interviews with and without writing stuff, and I have noticed that I fair way better when I at least write something down.

 

[keolu hills]

If it is really a problem, you could see a neuropsychologist. It doesn't have to be for an evaluation. This professional could makes some suggestions.

 

[Dr G Oogle]

I’ve never been an audio learner. In fact I had a very strange way of studying. I would read the notes or required textbook, make my own notes and then recite it out loud. Did that from Med school through fellowship. Very inefficient but worked for me. Never listened or went to a single class in ms1 or 2 and generally zoned out during lectures in 3rd and 4th year. Never really noticed this affecting me on rotations or that my attention span was shorter than others. There is plenty of data out there the the majority of people don’t retain much from a lecture and that lecturing is actually a terrible way to teach things, especially something like anatomy which is about as visual a subject as you can get. So just figure out what works for you and not what works for other people (I figured out my style about 6 months into MS1). Your only job as a student is to learn the material no one cares how you do it.

 

[deleted393595]

i've noticed lately that is difficult for me to follow and retain information that is presented to me less formally in verbal presentations. For instance, in anatomy, just listening to the facilitator does not work well for me. I don't remember anything that has been said shortly after. I think it might be slightly due to an attention thing but even when i repeat what was just said it's gone. I usually read things over several times or write them so this wasn't a problem until now. I have just noticed that some of my classmates have picked up on anatomy rather quickly and I think it might be due to that. This is just concerning me because I know during rotations physicians may try to quiz us on stuff they may have said earlier and those are grades that actually count versus the rest of curriculum which is pass fail.

Any tips on how to improve with this? Any books on how to improve learning? Anything helps.

Have you been evaluated for ADHD?

 

[augeremt]

I'm the same way. I don't learn ANYTHING from lectures to the point that it's in one ear and out the other. So for learning from lectures, I take a lot of notes or use images from books/Google to remember things. When it comes to patient interactions, I used to have to write down everything they said otherwise I'd forget they even told me. Over the years, it's gotten easier to remember things because the bad/concerning stuff sticks out. So it'll get better with practice.

As for now, you'll still be able to write down things during rotations. Keep a small notebook or folded up piece of paper on you and write down anything you find important as soon as you hear it. If you're not able to do it right away, then keep repeating it to yourself until it sticks or you can write it down.

You may just have to hear it a few more times than the average person for you to retain it. Everyone learns differently and that's okay.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

I think the reason you're having a problem with audio learning is because you perhaps need to something tangible to connect it to. What are you doing while listening to audio lecture? Are you looking at a picture? Are you taking notes?

Audio lectures are NOT meant to be a "listen and regurgitate and I got it" type thing. It is nothing more than a means of GIVING you the information. Are there words associated with the audio that you can copy and paste under a picture you find from google?

Anatomy is anatomy is anatomy is anatomy. It is always going to be anatomy, and therefore no matter what image you find on the internet or resource you find, it is going to be a great resource to use, as long as you learn it, it does not matter how you learned it.

I suggest you follow along with the audio lectures and only use the words as a tool, do not plan on learning from these words. you should be taking their words, converting it into something that makes sense to you, and reviewing it, over, and over, and over.

I like Anki. I only use Anki. It's the only study resource I've used in all of medical school. If I don't like a picture that my professors give us in a power point, I will google my own, and then I will use the "Occlusion" feature to blank out the important things I need to know and test myself that way. I like verbal, but like you, unless I am reading it in my own head or using their words to associate to a picture, it's just going to go in one ear and out the other.

It's hard because you are not really telling us exactly what resources your school has offered you. For me, I will make every single Powerpoint slide into an Anki card. I will then make a title of what I think I need to know on this card, then I will press Play on the lecture, listen to what they said for that slide, then I'll pause the lecture again. I will take their words and use it to reformat how the words in the PPT were displayed, take out the useless garbage, and keep the stuff they said was important, move on, rinse and repeat. If it is something they said verbally that you should 100% know, I make a whole new anki card just for that. It will still be in the original, but I will have a more targeted card, because at the end of the day, these professors are writing the exams and know what is important.

TLDR:
Figure out how you learn, then convert their words into that, then study it over and over and over.

 

[FishermanDon99]

I think the reason you're having a problem with audio learning is because you perhaps need to something tangible to connect it to. What are you doing while listening to audio lecture? Are you looking at a picture? Are you taking notes?

Audio lectures are NOT meant to be a "listen and regurgitate and I got it" type thing. It is nothing more than a means of GIVING you the information. Are there words associated with the audio that you can copy and paste under a picture you find from google?

Anatomy is anatomy is anatomy is anatomy. It is always going to be anatomy, and therefore no matter what image you find on the internet or resource you find, it is going to be a great resource to use, as long as you learn it, it does not matter how you learned it.

I suggest you follow along with the audio lectures and only use the words as a tool, do not plan on learning from these words. you should be taking their words, converting it into something that makes sense to you, and reviewing it, over, and over, and over.

I like Anki. I only use Anki. It's the only study resource I've used in all of medical school. If I don't like a picture that my professors give us in a power point, I will google my own, and then I will use the "Occlusion" feature to blank out the important things I need to know and test myself that way. I like verbal, but like you, unless I am reading it in my own head or using their words to associate to a picture, it's just going to go in one ear and out the other.

It's hard because you are not really telling us exactly what resources your school has offered you. For me, I will make every single Powerpoint slide into an Anki card. I will then make a title of what I think I need to know on this card, then I will press Play on the lecture, listen to what they said for that slide, then I'll pause the lecture again. I will take their words and use it to reformat how the words in the PPT were displayed, take out the useless garbage, and keep the stuff they said was important, move on, rinse and repeat. If it is something they said verbally that you should 100% know, I make a whole new anki card just for that. It will still be in the original, but I will have a more targeted card, because at the end of the day, these professors are writing the exams and know what is important.

TLDR:
Figure out how you learn, then convert their words into that, then study it over and over and over.

I use anki as well. I've been using zanki which aligns well with what is taught at our school. An upperclassman at my school also created a supplemental deck so that fills in most gaps. The only issue is that neither really covers anatomy that well. As far as what resources are given there is pretty much nothing we don't have. Lectures are recorded, there are pre-recorded dissections, labs with tutors, I have BnB, pathoma, sketchy, etc. I just have noticed that when asked a follow-up question in group settings like in tutoring I tend not to pick up as quickly. I feel that may become a problem in the future as I mentioned for rotations especially if I aim to go into something surgical.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

I use anki as well. I've been using zanki which aligns well with what is taught at our school. An upperclassman at my school also created a supplemental deck so that fills in most gaps. The only issue is that neither really covers anatomy that well. As far as what resources are given there is pretty much nothing we don't have. Lectures are recorded, there are pre-recorded dissections, labs with tutors, I have BnB, pathoma, sketchy, etc. I just have noticed that when asked a follow-up question in group settings like in tutoring I tend not to pick up as quickly. I feel that may become a problem in the future as I mentioned for rotations especially if I aim to go into something surgical.

First of all, stop comparing yourself to other people. It's only going to make you feel depressed, and just because others display confident and/or mastery, doesn't mean they truly understand it. Some people are just more forthcoming with their social interactions and therefore may come off being smarter than they really are. Not saying theyre not smart, we're all in med school. It seems a lot like you are lacking confidence because you don't actually know what method you learn best by. And therefore, you are allowing this to seep into your confidence in group sessions. Maybe you should avoid group settings and just hunker down and really focus on what you need to learn. Make a list of your weak spots and dedicate 30 minute blocks to just reviewing that material over and over and then move onto the next topic. Then hopefully next time you go back to those the next day, you should only need 15 minutes to review that high yield content associated with that topic. There's no trick, and everyone learns at different paces, so you just gotta hunker down and force your brain to make the neuronal connections it needs to make.

As weird as this sounds im in the top 10% of my class and I have never used Zanki, Pathoma, Sketchy, or Boards and Beyond. I make all my own cards based on my schools curriculum and use COMBANK and UWorld to assess myself. I truly think coming up with information in your own words is so vital. I know its a time suck to watch all the lectures and reformat everything to be the way you like it, but for me, just the action of making the cards is helping me create those neuronal synapses. You're not me, and I wouldn't recommend not using resources you find helpful, but you just gotta remember that you can't passively make cards or passively study Zanki. I think Zanki's fault is that it cues you too much. In real life you won't get cued unless you remember to ask the question - So for me I like my cards being more on the vague side. But I won't put a card back into the deck until I get it 100%. Even if it means seeing it 10 times before I put it away till tomorrow.

It's not a sprint, it's a long marathon. I'd much rather focus and learn all the material now really well than trying to sprint through all of it and trying to make up for the deficits later.

Good luck finding what works for you!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I’m like this too. If I see something I will remember it forever, but if I hear something it is really difficult for me to keep it in there just from audio alone. I get very little just from passively listening to lectures or presentations.

In all my patient encounters so far, I have just asked the patient if they mind if I jot down notes while we talk. Not one of them has minded. I look at them the whole time and I have come up with a short hand I have for things so I don’t have to spend time writing whole words down. I also have a template I use so I don’t forget to ask stuff.