TUCOM-CA or ATSU-KCOM

[blah354]

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guys, which school would you guys choose?

i'm from the east coast.

thanks!

 

[dendrites]

guys, which school would you guys choose?

i'm from the east coast.

thanks!

KCOM for sure. More established and better reputation. A lot of students complain about TUCOM and their lack of quality rotations-- check out the "pros and cons of your DO school" thread

 

[nikon]

Have you visited both campus? It might be a culture shock.

That being said, between the two KCOM for sure.

guys, which school would you guys choose?

i'm from the east coast.

thanks!

 

[SolanoDoc]

KCOM for sure. More established and better reputation. A lot of students complain about TUCOM and their lack of quality rotations-- check out the "pros and cons of your DO school" thread

You are talking about bth, he has some kind of personal issue with TUCOM, I would ignore whatever he says. The problems with rotations are with all DO schools not just TUCOM. KCOM is in the middle of nowhere, I know I would not be happy in some Missouri town and Vallejo is a lot nicer.

 

[123165]

You are talking about bth, he has some kind of personal issue with TUCOM, I would ignore whatever he says. The problems with rotations are with all DO schools not just TUCOM. KCOM is in the middle of nowhere, I know I would not be happy in some Missouri town and Vallejo is a lot nicer.

I would say that kcom is hands down the more established school. Have you visited? The school offers tons of amenities for their students, and you are only there for two years. I am biased, but have not met anyone who was unhappy about going to kcom. There are varying degrees of love for Kirksville. This post is pretty darn condescending.

 

[blah354]

thanks guys!

i have been accepted to KCOM (loved the school, not too crazy about the location), and invited to interview at Touro in CA. I just wanted to see what others thought before I book a $400 plane ticket...

does anyone know where i may find more information?

 

[Bacchus]

SolanoDoc, that is blind advice.

Off the top of my head I can say CCOM, PCOM, NYCOM, and LECOM offer rotations that you don't have to move away sans a rural rotation thrown in there sometime.

The choice is simple, bth7's opinion or not. Choose KCOM.

 

[rddoms]

I will start by saying that I am biased as I am a current KCOM student. That being said, KCOM is the 'mecca' of osteopathic medicine. I came from Seattle, and Kirksville was a bit of a shock at first. Kirksville has a lot more to do than anyone thinks, and it is close enough to Columbia/St. Louis/Kansas City if you need to get away. The clinical rotation sites offered by KCOM are at good hospitals that have residency programs, so that is a plus. The school has a brand new library with study rooms, computers, flat screens, patient simulators, and a new OTM lab. I've had a great time here, and would recommend it to anyone.

The admissions staff can answer any questions you may have, or you can PM me.

 

[SolanoDoc]

SolanoDoc, that is blind advice.

Off the top of my head I can say CCOM, PCOM, NYCOM, and LECOM offer rotations that you don't have to move away sans a rural rotation thrown in there sometime.

The choice is simple, bth7's opinion or not. Choose KCOM.

I personally would not place too much faith with bth's opinions, if you read them you know he is generally biased against DOs in general.

Touro California is a good school and its match list proves that. KCOM is in the middle of Ku Klux Klan country, Kirksville is supposed to be their national headquarters or something, I think I'll stay away thank you.

 

[SolanoDoc]

SolanoDoc, that is blind advice.

Off the top of my head I can say CCOM, PCOM, NYCOM, and LECOM offer rotations that you don't have to move away sans a rural rotation thrown in there sometime.

The choice is simple, bth7's opinion or not. Choose KCOM.

You are wrong about LECOM, I interviewed there and their rotation sites are spread out, you will not be in Erie all four years, a lot of students go to Pittsburgh, some to Cleveland, and some to Philly. Touro's are mostly spread out around California, with some in Michigan, Colorado and New York.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I personally would not place too much faith with bth's opinions, if you read them you know he is generally biased against DOs in general.

Touro California is a good school and its match list proves that. KCOM is in the middle of Ku Klux Klan country, Kirksville is supposed to be their national headquarters or something, I think I'll stay away thank you.

I like how in trying to bash ignorance, you've said one of the most foolish, ignorant, stupid things I have ever read on this site. Associating an entire city, let alone a university in the city, with something as horrible as the KKK is deplorable.

 

[JaggerPlate]

You are wrong about LECOM, I interviewed there and their rotation sites are spread out, you will not be in Erie all four years, a lot of students go to Pittsburgh, some to Cleveland, and some to Philly. Touro's are mostly spread out around California, with some in Michigan, Colorado and New York.

bth is a student who went through the issues with Touro-MI first hand. He's not someone basing it off a match list, which indicates nothing. The issues with the 3/4th years are well documented. You clearly have a strong opinion on this issue, be upfront about it, otherwise it's too bias to take seriously.

 

[dani042]

I personally would not place too much faith with bth's opinions, if you read them you know he is generally biased against DOs in general.

Touro California is a good school and its match list proves that. KCOM is in the middle of Ku Klux Klan country, Kirksville is supposed to be their national headquarters or something, I think I'll stay away thank you.

Are you being serious? Kirksville, MO? Riiiiiight...

 

[SolanoDoc]

bth is a student who went through the issues with Touro-MI first hand. He's not someone basing it off a match list, which indicates nothing. The issues with the 3/4th years are well documented. You clearly have a strong opinion on this issue, be upfront about it, otherwise it's too bias to take seriously.

I happened to shadow several physicians who were Touro California graduates, bth is right that many of the Bay Area rotations tend to be in outpatient units, that is why the school had to look for rotation sites in Southern California and a few other locales. The school is aware of the rotation issue and mentioned that schools like Stanford and UCSF as well as UC Davis have a very big footprint in the Bay Area. When you have three of the most prestigious research medical schools in the area and one DO school of course that could create problems. The issues that Touro has is not unique, in fact at many DO schools, you are pretty much on your own in the clinical years. AZCOM just doubled their class size a couple of years ago, most clinical sites in Phoenix have been hoarded by U of Arizona and now AT Still SOMA is taking a lot away from AZCOM, so now many students are shuffled to Ohio and Michigan in the third and fourth years, the other side of the country practically speaking. I got a very long list of clinical affiliations from LECOM which I realized was meaningless because hospitals are known to drop LECOM students. Bth is right that DO schools do not have clinical departments and dedicated teaching hospitals like Allopathic schools. He admitted though that the school did the job, helped him become a doctor.

As far as Kirksville is concerned look it up in Wikipedia, the town is not a place I would be caught dead going to and someone I met mentioned Kirksville has a large KKK presence. Just because Obama is President means racism has disappeared?? Are you people naive?? I even cancelled my interview when I heard about it. Look up the archives at Truman State University in Kirksville, they have a lot of records with regards to the KKK and history of that town.

 

[JaggerPlate]

As far as Kirksville is concerned look it up in Wikipedia, the town is not a place I would be caught dead going to and someone I met mentioned Kirksville has a large KKK presence. Just because Obama is President means racism has disappeared?? Are you people naive?? I even cancelled my interview when I heard about it. Look up the archives at Truman State University in Kirksville, they have a lot of records with regards to the KKK and history of that town.

Dude, you're seriously f*cking nuts. Like tin foil helmet nuts.

 

[SolanoDoc]

Are you being serious? Kirksville, MO? Riiiiiight...

Go to Truman State and look up the historical archives for Kirksville, lots of great information about that town's past.

As far as Touro CA is concerned it might have its issues but it is certainly a legimitate medical school and it is a path to becoming a physician and I believe bth mentioned this in his post. If the school was not it would have closed down but instead they have spawned a sattelite campus in Nevada, that is a pretty good sign. Its also less than 45 minutes from home which means I can live at home and save a bundle of money that would have been used for living expenses. While bth is negative about the school, I have met many people who were happy with their experiences and the doctors I know spoke well of Touro.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Go to Truman State and look up the historical archives for Kirksville, lots of great information about that town's past.

As far as Touro CA is concerned it might have its issues but it is certainly a legimitate medical school and it is a path to becoming a physician and I believe bth mentioned this in his post. If the school was not it would have closed down but instead they have spawned a sattelite campus in Nevada, that is a pretty good sign. Its also less than 45 minutes from home which means I can live at home and save a bundle of money that would have been used for living expenses. While bth is negative about the school, I have met many people who were happy with their experiences and the doctors I know spoke well of Touro.

I'm not going to travel to Truman State to look up historical archives. I don't think I have to explain how foolish that statement is, and why it's absolutely pointless to judge places on their history. Just quit saying stupid and ignorant things.

I'm really glad you're happy in your decision to attend TU-CA. You don't have to keep convincing us though. Good luck with everything. You've made the right decision for you, so go and work hard. Don't sit around here telling us how happy you are and how KCOM isn't cool because of absurd reasons ... it reeks of insecurity.

 

[123165]

I happened to shadow several physicians who were Touro California graduates, bth is right that many of the Bay Area rotations tend to be in outpatient units, that is why the school had to look for rotation sites in Southern California and a few other locales. The school is aware of the rotation issue and mentioned that schools like Stanford and UCSF as well as UC Davis have a very big footprint in the Bay Area. When you have three of the most prestigious research medical schools in the area and one DO school of course that could create problems. The issues that Touro has is not unique, in fact at many DO schools, you are pretty much on your own in the clinical years. AZCOM just doubled their class size a couple of years ago, most clinical sites in Phoenix have been hoarded by U of Arizona and now AT Still SOMA is taking a lot away from AZCOM, so now many students are shuffled to Ohio and Michigan in the third and fourth years, the other side of the country practically speaking. I got a very long list of clinical affiliations from LECOM which I realized was meaningless because hospitals are known to drop LECOM students. Bth is right that DO schools do not have clinical departments and dedicated teaching hospitals like Allopathic schools. He admitted though that the school did the job, helped him become a doctor.

As far as Kirksville is concerned look it up in Wikipedia, the town is not a place I would be caught dead going to and someone I met mentioned Kirksville has a large KKK presence. Just because Obama is President means racism has disappeared?? Are you people naive?? I even cancelled my interview when I heard about it. Look up the archives at Truman State University in Kirksville, they have a lot of records with regards to the KKK and history of that town.

When you heard what, that the Klan was historically in Kirksville? The Klan has historically been in many, many places

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/type.jsp?DT=7

This says that *gasp* even California has active hate groups. None are listed in Kirksville, by the way.

I really cannot believe we are even having this conversation.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

When you heard what, that the Klan was historically in Kirksville? The Klan has historically been in many, many places

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/type.jsp?DT=7

This says that *gasp* even California has active hate groups. None are listed in Kirksville, by the way.

I really cannot believe we are even having this conversation.

I think SolanoDoc took his personal reasons for not wanting to go to KCOM and voiced them.

Hands down, I would pick KCOM over any of the Touros any day of the week, and I'm saying this as a black woman.😱 LOL

 

[Berkman]

All this Touro CA negativity was created by one individual who did not get the Bay Area residency that he desperately wanted. This individual then voices his opinions of Touro CA based on anecdotal evidence "I know many people that..." "All my friends tell me that..." ignoring the fact that Touro has placed many of its med students in great residency programs in CA. All you pre-meds who are drawn to Touro because of its location shouldn't be put off by this ONE student who doesn't have the balls to put his failures on himself. Look through his posts and you'll see a disturbing trend. Oh I didn't make it because of the DO initials. Oh I didn't make it because Touro CA doesn't have good rotations. Blah Blah Blah. Take a look at the match list and take comfort in the fact that those that worked hard were able to score top notch residencies. 👍

 

[JaggerPlate]

All this Touro CA negativity was created by one individual who did not get the Bay Area residency that he desperately wanted. This individual then voices his opinions of Touro CA based on anecdotal evidence "I know many people that..." "All my friends tell me that..." ignoring the fact that Touro has placed many of its med students in great residency programs in CA. All you pre-meds who are drawn to Touro because of its location shouldn't be put off by this ONE student who doesn't have the balls to put his failures on himself. Look through his posts and you'll see a disturbing trend. Oh I didn't make it because of the DO initials. Oh I didn't make it because Touro CA doesn't have good rotations. Blah Blah Blah. Take a look at the match list and take comfort in the fact that those that worked hard were able to score top notch residencies. 👍

You guys are being too unfair to bth. He's been very honest and bold in his opinions, but they aren't from his own failures. He has never really complained about matching, quite the opposite actually. His complaints were with the 3/4th year rotations. If I remember correctly, he (or students in his class) were shipped to NY for their CORE rotations, and he was (understandably) upset uprooting his life and going to NY for these rotations. Secondly, you need to remember that a matchlist shows you one thing ... how hard students work. It does not indicate ANYTHING about the 3/4 year rotations of a school. You could be a superstar at a place where you have to set up your own rotations and match ROADS based on your grades and Step scores, or you could be a dud at a school with a very structured 3/4 years. All I ask is that you do your own research. The people who are so opposite the side of the spectrum of bth are spreading just as much misinformation as he himself is doing. Until you are a 3/4 year student going through rotations at TUMI (like bth), your opinions should be restricted to your opinions as a pre-med or a 1/2 year medical student.

 

[rddoms]

Go to Truman State and look up the historical archives for Kirksville, lots of great information about that town's past.

As far as Touro CA is concerned it might have its issues but it is certainly a legimitate medical school and it is a path to becoming a physician and I believe bth mentioned this in his post. If the school was not it would have closed down but instead they have spawned a sattelite campus in Nevada, that is a pretty good sign. Its also less than 45 minutes from home which means I can live at home and save a bundle of money that would have been used for living expenses. While bth is negative about the school, I have met many people who were happy with their experiences and the doctors I know spoke well of Touro.

You are absolutely ridiculous! Haven't you heard that references need to be backed up? For example, the other day I saw a truck that said "Rednecks for Obama" on it. I have never seen anything KKK associated in Kirksville. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so grow up.

 

[MossPoh]

If you HAVE to be in California and the bay area then choose touro. For just about every other reason, choose KCOM. I interviewed at both places. I LOVE the bay area. If it weren't so expensive, I'd live there without a doubt. I felt depressed and miserable at the Touro-CA campus. The students weren't particularly enthusiastic about the school. (They all loved the area though) This is a complete contrast to KCOM, where many people didn't like the area but they loved the school with a passion.

That isn't to say that the students are mean or anything, in fact they were all quite nice. I just felt depressed driving through to the campus. The facilities weren't all that great. I've gotten nothing but mixed reviews about rotation sites. The price tag is high. Cost of living there is high. Also, as trivial as it is, I just didn't feel important at Touro.

KCOM was a pain to get to. I stayed with a student and his fiance. They were tremendously nice. I got a private tour the night before and every student came up to me and gave nothing but positive comments about the school. I didn't get one shrug and "well, it is medical school....." comment. The reputation is there. Solid rotations are there. Price tag is high, but the cost of living is dirt cheap. If you like nature then the area is great, otherwise it is pretty lame. You do have Truman State, so at least it is still a college town feel. Leaving KCOM, I wanted nothing more than to go there. It was my top choice and broke my heart when I was rejected post-interview.

Can you get a solid education at both? Of course. Medical education is largely about your own initiative, but I just felt so much more comfortable and part of a family at KCOM. They also have fantastic new facilities if that means anything.

This obviously is a little bias but that is how it went. Even though I got into my top choice overall and love it here, I still have a tinge of jealousy for people at KCOM. I can't say the same for Touro. It is more of an indifference and a "have fun with that" type thing.

BTH had negative posts about Touro, but very legit comments. He was talking about problems before the match, so I don't see that as the reason why. I've heard more negative things from other students that mirror what he stated. I appreciate his honesty. I don't think people realize how much of a risk it can be to post such comments on these forums. People know who you are. It isn't hard to figure out most of the time.

Anyone in the first two years of my class, as well as near all staff/faculty could know who I am just by my name and location.

 

[Berkman]

You guys are being too unfair to bth. He's been very honest and bold in his opinions, but they aren't from his own failures. He has never really complained about matching, quite the opposite actually. His complaints were with the 3/4th year rotations. If I remember correctly, he (or students in his class) were shipped to NY for their CORE rotations, and he was (understandably) upset uprooting his life and going to NY for these rotations. Secondly, you need to remember that a matchlist shows you one thing ... how hard students work. It does not indicate ANYTHING about the 3/4 year rotations of a school. You could be a superstar at a place where you have to set up your own rotations and match ROADS based on your grades and Step scores, or you could be a dud at a school with a very structured 3/4 years. All I ask is that you do your own research. The people who are so opposite the side of the spectrum of bth are spreading just as much misinformation as he himself is doing. Until you are a 3/4 year student going through rotations at TUMI (like bth), your opinions should be restricted to your opinions as a pre-med or a 1/2 year medical student.

I don't think I'm being unfair at all. He stated that he was appalled by the fact that he wasn't even given an interview at some MD residency in the Bay Area and wishes that Touro was more honest with him. About what? That he was going to be competing with students from Stanford and UCSF or wherever for the spots? And it's Touro's fault...lol, give me a break. How about, he just wasn't good enough, and going to a more established school like TCOM or PCOM was not going to change that. I understand the matchlist is a reflection of how hard the individuals of a particular class work, which is exactly my point. Touro will not hold you back from your dreams, just as PCOM won't automatically get you into your dream residency.

 

[JaggerPlate]

If you HAVE to be in California and the bay area then choose touro. For just about every other reason, choose KCOM. I interviewed at both places. I LOVE the bay area. If it weren't so expensive, I'd live there without a doubt. I felt depressed and miserable at the Touro-CA campus. The students weren't particularly enthusiastic about the school. (They all loved the area though) This is a complete contrast to KCOM, where many people didn't like the area but they loved the school with a passion.

That isn't to say that the students are mean or anything, in fact they were all quite nice. I just felt depressed driving through to the campus. The facilities weren't all that great. I've gotten nothing but mixed reviews about rotation sites. The price tag is high. Cost of living there is high. Also, as trivial as it is, I just didn't feel important at Touro.

KCOM was a pain to get to. I stayed with a student and his fiance. They were tremendously nice. I got a private tour the night before and every student came up to me and gave nothing but positive comments about the school. I didn't get one shrug and "well, it is medical school....." comment. The reputation is there. Solid rotations are there. Price tag is high, but the cost of living is dirt cheap. If you like nature then the area is great, otherwise it is pretty lame. You do have Truman State, so at least it is still a college town feel. Leaving KCOM, I wanted nothing more than to go there. It was my top choice and broke my heart when I was rejected post-interview.

Can you get a solid education at both? Of course. Medical education is largely about your own initiative, but I just felt so much more comfortable and part of a family at KCOM. They also have fantastic new facilities if that means anything.

This obviously is a little bias but that is how it went. Even though I got into my top choice overall and love it here, I still have a tinge of jealousy for people at KCOM. I can't say the same for Touro. It is more of an indifference and a "have fun with that" type thing.

BTH had negative posts about Touro, but very legit comments. He was talking about problems before the match, so I don't see that as the reason why. I've heard more negative things from other students that mirror what he stated. I appreciate his honesty. I don't think people realize how much of a risk it can be to post such comments on these forums. People know who you are. It isn't hard to figure out most of the time.

Anyone in the first two years of my class, as well as near all staff/faculty could know who I am just by my name and location.

Great post!

 

[Thomas Hearns]

You can ask the Touro CA faculty themselves and they will tell you that core rotations are not their strong point.

And Touro NV and NY" are not "satellite campuses." They are separate schools.

I don't think I'll be visiting this thread again

 

[JaggerPlate]

You can ask the Touro CA faculty themselves and they will tell you that core rotations are not their strong point.

And Touro NV and NY" are not "satellite campuses." They are separate schools.

I don't think I'll be visiting this thread again

What??? A logical thread about Kirksville being associated with the KKK?? Dude, why now???

 

[csmittyB]

the doctors I know spoke well of Touro.

Great. I've had the opposite experience. A residency director at a medical school near Touro told me that they won't even consider an applicant from Touro b/c of the problems Touro has with its rotations (btw they do have DO residents from other schools). Admittedly, I do think that is an ignorant position to take and that they may be missing out on good students. Still, for me, it is a red flag. Hell, one of my interviewers said that the clinical rotations were the weakest aspect of Touro-CA.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Great. I've had the opposite experience. A residency director at a medical school near Touro told me that they won't even consider an applicant from Touro b/c of the problems Touro has with its rotations (btw they do have DO residents from other schools). Admittedly, I do think that is an ignorant position to take and that they may be missing out on good students. Still, for me, it is a red flag. Hell, one of my interviewers said that the clinical rotations were the weakest aspect of Touro-CA.

Wow.

 

[buhito]

The issues that Touro has is not unique, in fact at many DO schools, you are pretty much on your own in the clinical years. AZCOM just doubled their class size a couple of years ago, most clinical sites in Phoenix have been hoarded by U of Arizona and now AT Still SOMA is taking a lot away from AZCOM, so now many students are shuffled to Ohio and Michigan in the third and fourth years, the other side of the country practically speaking.

have you happened to glance at SOMA's set-up? They don't do traditional rotations, but work with community health centers all over the country (including some in AZ). I don't think they are "taking a lot away from AZCOM," seeing as they aren't using the same clinical sites..

in hindsight this is a minor problem with the entire argument..and this thread is about kcom and tucom ca.. haha sorry.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

have you happened to glance at SOMA's set-up? They don't do traditional rotations, but work with community health centers all over the country (including some in AZ). I don't think they are "taking a lot away from AZCOM," seeing as they aren't using the same clinical sites..

in hindsight this is a minor problem with the entire argument..and this thread is about kcom and tucom ca.. haha sorry.

The more I read Solano's post, the more I realize that he/she is really talking about of ass.

 

[SolanoDoc]

Well I was generally told that clinical rotations are the weak points at most DO schools with the exception of a few established schools like CCOM, PCOM, Ohio, KCUMB, etc, that are well established, these schools existed before World War 2, so they are all fairly old. KCOM is also well established but I just do not see myself living in Missouri. I think I could live in Arizona for a while. So between AZCOM and Touro, which is the better school overall? I know several graduates from Touro and they are doing well. I am very rigid in that I do not want to live outside of California or the West coast of the US, I am happy where I am, I went to LECOM and honestly just did not like Erie, cold, rainy, and dreary.

I also forgot to mention I am married and my wife works in San Francisco, I doubt she will find a job in her field in a place like Kirksville or Erie. I even doubt it in Phoenix. Also the fact that I can commute from home while my wife works is a big plus, means I will only wind up paying for tuition, equipment, and books.

Dr. C outlined the clinical issue problem with Touro and its the fact that two big name medical schools, Stanford and UCSF, basically have a monopoly on teaching hospitals in the Bay Area. The doctor I know completed a residency with both a UCSF and Stanford MD graduate which is a pretty big accomplishment for a DO. Those schools are Ivy League class medical schools. A professor at UCSF was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine. Its a pretty big shadow. KCOM being in Kirksville is not in the shadow of any big school as Washington U is in St. Louis. Same for LECOM as Case Western is far off in Ohio and Pitt is in Pittsburgh.

I have had the experience of living around the country and I LOVE California. I cannot see myself being anywhere else.

 

[SolanoDoc]

Great. I've had the opposite experience. A residency director at a medical school near Touro told me that they won't even consider an applicant from Touro b/c of the problems Touro has with its rotations (btw they do have DO residents from other schools). Admittedly, I do think that is an ignorant position to take and that they may be missing out on good students. Still, for me, it is a red flag. Hell, one of my interviewers said that the clinical rotations were the weakest aspect of Touro-CA.

Let me guess you are talking about Stanford or UCSF? Those are the schools closest to Touro, in fact they are the only MD schools in the Bay Area. UC Davis also has a lot of students rotating in SF.

 

[SolanoDoc]

If you HAVE to be in California and the bay area then choose touro. For just about every other reason, choose KCOM. I interviewed at both places. I LOVE the bay area. If it weren't so expensive, I'd live there without a doubt. I felt depressed and miserable at the Touro-CA campus. The students weren't particularly enthusiastic about the school. (They all loved the area though) This is a complete contrast to KCOM, where many people didn't like the area but they loved the school with a passion.

That isn't to say that the students are mean or anything, in fact they were all quite nice. I just felt depressed driving through to the campus. The facilities weren't all that great. I've gotten nothing but mixed reviews about rotation sites. The price tag is high. Cost of living there is high. Also, as trivial as it is, I just didn't feel important at Touro.

KCOM was a pain to get to. I stayed with a student and his fiance. They were tremendously nice. I got a private tour the night before and every student came up to me and gave nothing but positive comments about the school. I didn't get one shrug and "well, it is medical school....." comment. The reputation is there. Solid rotations are there. Price tag is high, but the cost of living is dirt cheap. If you like nature then the area is great, otherwise it is pretty lame. You do have Truman State, so at least it is still a college town feel. Leaving KCOM, I wanted nothing more than to go there. It was my top choice and broke my heart when I was rejected post-interview.

Can you get a solid education at both? Of course. Medical education is largely about your own initiative, but I just felt so much more comfortable and part of a family at KCOM. They also have fantastic new facilities if that means anything.

This obviously is a little bias but that is how it went. Even though I got into my top choice overall and love it here, I still have a tinge of jealousy for people at KCOM. I can't say the same for Touro. It is more of an indifference and a "have fun with that" type thing.

BTH had negative posts about Touro, but very legit comments. He was talking about problems before the match, so I don't see that as the reason why. I've heard more negative things from other students that mirror what he stated. I appreciate his honesty. I don't think people realize how much of a risk it can be to post such comments on these forums. People know who you are. It isn't hard to figure out most of the time.

Anyone in the first two years of my class, as well as near all staff/faculty could know who I am just by my name and location.

BTH does not like DO schools in general, I looked at one of his older posts, he is definitely more for the MD. Its true that US MDs tend to have more open doors than DOs.

 

[JaggerPlate]

BTH does not like DO schools in general, I looked at one of his older posts, he is definitely more for the MD. Its true that US MDs tend to have more open doors than DOs.

God, I thought I said to quit saying foolish things!!

1. No he doesn't dislike DOs in general. He is a DO. Bth has issues with the following things: 1. the AOA 2. Schools that do not have a base teaching hospital/solid 3/4th year rotations. He has never said 'I dislike DO and definitely like MD more.' Sorry what you read, but it is inaccurate. You haven't read enough of his posts in enough detail
2. Saying MD opens more doors than DO is a gross, misinformed generalization. You provide no facts, and this statement is in no way true.

 

[123165]

Well I was generally told that clinical rotations are the weak points at most DO schools with the exception of a few established schools like CCOM, PCOM, Ohio, KCUMB, etc, that are well established, these schools existed before World War 2, so they are all fairly old. KCOM is also well established but I just do not see myself living in Missouri. I think I could live in Arizona for a while. So between AZCOM and Touro, which is the better school overall? I know several graduates from Touro and they are doing well. I am very rigid in that I do not want to live outside of California or the West coast of the US, I am happy where I am, I went to LECOM and honestly just did not like Erie, cold, rainy, and dreary.

I also forgot to mention I am married and my wife works in San Francisco, I doubt she will find a job in her field in a place like Kirksville or Erie. I even doubt it in Phoenix. Also the fact that I can commute from home while my wife works is a big plus, means I will only wind up paying for tuition, equipment, and books.

Dr. C outlined the clinical issue problem with Touro and its the fact that two big name medical schools, Stanford and UCSF, basically have a monopoly on teaching hospitals in the Bay Area. The doctor I know completed a residency with both a UCSF and Stanford MD graduate which is a pretty big accomplishment for a DO. Those schools are Ivy League class medical schools. A professor at UCSF was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine. Its a pretty big shadow. KCOM being in Kirksville is not in the shadow of any big school as Washington U is in St. Louis. Same for LECOM as Case Western is far off in Ohio and Pitt is in Pittsburgh.

I have had the experience of living around the country and I LOVE California. I cannot see myself being anywhere else.

Why in the world do you create a thread for kcom vs tucom-mi if you have no interest in going to kcom? It makes no sense to me. I think jagger is right about the aluminum foil helmet.

We need to close this bad boy before an unsuspecting premed spreads rumors about Klan meetings in the OMM lab.

*Edit*

Sorry, got caught up. I realize that Solano did not start the thread. I still think we should get drastically back on topic.

Thanks PmG

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Well I was generally told that clinical rotations are the weak points at most DO schools with the exception of a few established schools like CCOM, PCOM, Ohio, KCUMB, etc, that are well established, these schools existed before World War 2, so they are all fairly old. KCOM is also well established but I just do not see myself living in Missouri. I think I could live in Arizona for a while. So between AZCOM and Touro, which is the better school overall? I know several graduates from Touro and they are doing well. I am very rigid in that I do not want to live outside of California or the West coast of the US, I am happy where I am, I went to LECOM and honestly just did not like Erie, cold, rainy, and dreary.

I also forgot to mention I am married and my wife works in San Francisco, I doubt she will find a job in her field in a place like Kirksville or Erie. I even doubt it in Phoenix. Also the fact that I can commute from home while my wife works is a big plus, means I will only wind up paying for tuition, equipment, and books.

Dr. C outlined the clinical issue problem with Touro and its the fact that two big name medical schools, Stanford and UCSF, basically have a monopoly on teaching hospitals in the Bay Area. The doctor I know completed a residency with both a UCSF and Stanford MD graduate which is a pretty big accomplishment for a DO. Those schools are Ivy League class medical schools. A professor at UCSF was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine. Its a pretty big shadow. KCOM being in Kirksville is not in the shadow of any big school as Washington U is in St. Louis. Same for LECOM as Case Western is far off in Ohio and Pitt is in Pittsburgh.

I have had the experience of living around the country and I LOVE California. I cannot see myself being anywhere else.

You really need to do some research before you start posting. You're not even trying to find out if the information that these people tell you are valid or incorrect, but yet you insist on posting misinformation about DO schools. This makes people wonder how in the hell did you get into medical school, when you can't even provide evidence to the bull you post. If your decision for choosing Touro is because you feel its a good fit for you and you don't want to uproot your family, then congratulations on your journey to becoming a doctor. But don't knock every other DO school so you can feel better about your choice.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Why in the world do you create a thread for kcom vs tucom-mi if you have no interest in going to kcom? It makes no sense to me. I think jagger is right about the aluminum foil helmet.

We need to close this bad boy before an unsuspecting premed spreads rumors about Klan meetings in the OMM lab.

Solano didn't create this thread, just made it into a mess.

 

[SolanoDoc]

God, I thought I said to quit saying foolish things!!

1. No he doesn't dislike DOs in general. He is a DO. Bth has issues with the following things: 1. the AOA 2. Schools that do not have a base teaching hospital/solid 3/4th year rotations. He has never said 'I dislike DO and definitely like MD more.' Sorry what you read, but it is inaccurate. You haven't read enough of his posts in enough detail
2. Saying MD opens more doors than DO is a gross, misinformed generalization. You provide no facts, and this statement is in no way true.

Are you kidding?? BTH has mentioned several times that many programs did not look at him and his classmates because they were DOs not because they went to Touro. He has repeatedly mentioned this as one problem with Osteopathic medical schools. The issue of moving for rotations is not unique to Touro. On my LECOM interview I was told that I would be doing a lot moving in the third and fourth year. BTH has mentioned that he felt that being a DO put him at a disadvantage for competitive programs. If a residency director has a choice between a Stanford MD and a DO from KCOM who you do you think is going to get the position? I got a college classmate who is at Stanford and when I say Kirksville I get a puzzled look from him. My money is on the guy from Stanford. In fact the statistics you can get from NRMP confirm this, sponsored applicants, ie US and Canadian MDs, match at a higher rate than Independent applicants, DO and foreign MD. I never meant to knock down other schools but I am getting offended by all this Touro bashing on the forum, the school offers a very legitimate path to becoming a doctor, and its definitely a lot more legitimate than a lot of foreign schools such as those in the Caribbean.

Its generally a fact that US trained MDs have more doors open for them than DOs, even the adcom of a DO school admitted this when he pointed to his school's lack of research. You DO see DOs in research but its generally harder to get into than for MDs. Even among the general public there are issues, there are some states and cities that are anti DO. Boston is well known for this, some top hospitals in Boston such as Brigham and Women's will take foreign MDs but not DOs into their residency programs.

If match lists are meaningless, why does almost every major US MD school list their graduates in residency matches in their school bulletins? From what I saw a very large percent of Touro graduates matched into residencies in California, and CA is the most notoriously difficult state to get a residency, MD or DO.

Yes, KCOM is the more "established" school but for my own personal situation I cannot just get up and relocate.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

And so it begins.

 

[csmittyB]

 

[JaggerPlate]

Are you kidding?? BTH has mentioned several times that many programs did not look at him and his classmates because they were DOs not because they went to Touro. He has repeatedly mentioned this as one problem with Osteopathic medical schools. The issue of moving for rotations is not unique to Touro. On my LECOM interview I was told that I would be doing a lot moving in the third and fourth year. BTH has mentioned that he felt that being a DO put him at a disadvantage for competitive programs. If a residency director has a choice between a Stanford MD and a DO from KCOM who you do you think is going to get the position? I got a college classmate who is at Stanford and when I say Kirksville I get a puzzled look from him. My money is on the guy from Stanford. In fact the statistics you can get from NRMP confirm this, sponsored applicants, ie US and Canadian MDs, match at a higher rate than Independent applicants, DO and foreign MD. I never meant to knock down other schools but I am getting offended by all this Touro bashing on the forum, the school offers a very legitimate path to becoming a doctor, and its definitely a lot more legitimate than a lot of foreign schools such as those in the Caribbean.

Its generally a fact that US trained MDs have more doors open for them than DOs, even the adcom of a DO school admitted this when he pointed to his school's lack of research. You DO see DOs in research but its generally harder to get into than for MDs. Even among the general public there are issues, there are some states and cities that are anti DO. Boston is well known for this, some top hospitals in Boston such as Brigham and Women's will take foreign MDs but not DOs into their residency programs.

If match lists are meaningless, why does almost every major US MD school list their graduates in residency matches in their school bulletins? From what I saw a very large percent of Touro graduates matched into residencies in California, and CA is the most notoriously difficult state to get a residency, MD or DO.

Yes, KCOM is the more "established" school but for my own personal situation I cannot just get up and relocate.

I can't decide whether to break this down a million different ways and hoist a flag on the burning rubble that is your logic post my missile attack ... or to just realize everyone understand how flawed it is and give a small 'lol.' I'll decide later. Stay tuned kids ...

 

[PunkmedGirl]

I can't decide whether to break this down a million different ways and hoist a flag on the burning rubble that is your logic post my missile attack ... or to just realize everyone understand how flawed it is and give a small 'lol.' I'll decide later. Stay tuned kids ...

I felt the same way that's why I posted "".

 

[SolanoDoc]

I can't decide whether to break this down a million different ways and hoist a flag on the burning rubble that is your logic post my missile attack ... or to just realize everyone understand how flawed it is and give a small 'lol.' I'll decide later. Stay tuned kids ...

So you are saying a DO from lets say LECOM and an MD from Stanford applying to a residency at Mass General both have an equal shot at obtaining the spot?? Give me a break.

 

[JaggerPlate]

So you are saying a DO from lets say LECOM and an MD from Stanford applying to a residency at Mass General both have an equal shot at obtaining the spot?? Give me a break.

That's verbatim the highlighted portion you quoted. You're a spaceman. Seriously, you're crazy.

 

[JaggerPlate]

So you are saying a DO from lets say LECOM and an MD from Stanford applying to a residency at Mass General both have an equal shot at obtaining the spot?? Give me a break.

And just to clarify ... if the DO from LECOM had better USMLE, better grades, good LORs in that field and did an audition rotation there vs a Stanford grad with avg stuff who didn't know people at Mass General ... sure. You are making really stupid, pre-med assumptions and clearly don't get how the game is played yet. Am I claiming that LECOM is a better school than Stanford?? No (not necessarily/rankings are pointless and to be honest, I think the only two names that have the magic you are thinking of are Harvard and JHU). Am I saying that some programs don't have DO bias??? No. Am I saying that for certain ACGME fields, DOs have to be badasses?? Yes. Am I also saying that DOs work hard and take competitive MD spots each year. You bet. Are you trying to tell me there wasn't a single MD out there who wanted the MD ortho, rads, gas, surgery, ETC, that DO students match into each year???

I think you'll get smarter eventually, but right now your making some really foolish, outlandish claims because you frankly don't understand the game.

 

[SolanoDoc]

And just to clarify ... if the DO from LECOM had better USMLE, better grades, good LORs in that field and did an audition rotation there vs a Stanford grad with avg stuff who didn't know people at Mass General ... sure. You are making really stupid, pre-med assumptions and clearly don't get how the game is played yet. Am I claiming that LECOM is a better school than Stanford?? No (not necessarily/rankings are pointless and to be honest, I think the only two names that have the magic you are thinking of are Harvard and JHU). Am I saying that some programs don't have DO bias??? No. Am I saying that for certain ACGME fields, DOs have to be badasses?? Yes. Am I also saying that DOs work hard and take competitive MD spots each year. You bet. Are you trying to tell me there wasn't a single MD out there who wanted the MD ortho, rads, gas, surgery, ETC, that DO students match into each year???

I think you'll get smarter eventually, but right now your making some really foolish, outlandish claims because you frankly don't understand the game.

Well I happen to love being in the Bay Area, and would never want to live elsewhere in the US, other parts of California are okay to me but its the West Coast or I would frankly just leave this country. I would not be caught dead in Kirksville. As far as KCOM vs. Touro CA. In my opinion I like Touro CA a lot more.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Well I happen to love being in the Bay Area, and would never want to live elsewhere in the US, other parts of California are okay to me but its the West Coast or I would frankly just leave this country. I would not be caught dead in Kirksville. As far as KCOM vs. Touro CA. In my opinion I like Touro CA a lot more.

Sweet. Let me speak for everyone and say 'I don't care.' I said like ten posts ago that your bullsh*t reeked of insecurity, and it still does. That's awesome you want to stay in the bay area, great. However, calling KCOM a haven for the KKK, making up stupid analogies with big names like 'Stanford' and 'Mass General' (where TV doctors went!!) is pathetic. Your opinion could have been this ' I'd choose TU-MI over KCOM, based on location. That's just me though.' Bam, done. Seriously, no one cares at all that you'd rather leave the country than live in the bay and no one cares how much you dislike Kirksville. Grow up. And thanks for addressing any of my points. You mine as well have said I was playing unfair so you quit and you're now going to ride your bike home.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

🤣 Solano, its really crazy how you got into medical school and you didn't even research a damn thing about the whole process besides what you hear from people and misguided premeds on SDN.

 

[bth7]

Great. I've had the opposite experience. A residency director at a medical school near Touro told me that they won't even consider an applicant from Touro b/c of the problems Touro has with its rotations (btw they do have DO residents from other schools). Admittedly, I do think that is an ignorant position to take and that they may be missing out on good students. Still, for me, it is a red flag. Hell, one of my interviewers said that the clinical rotations were the weakest aspect of Touro-CA.

People can say whatever they like about me.

The truth is I'm not making this cr*p up. Why would I do that?

For the record, I'm not anti-DO. I AM a DO. I just think people should be aware of what they are getting themselves into.

I'm also not anti-Touro. Again, I think people should be aware of what they are getting themselves into.

As far a matching goes, I worked my little fanny pants off (as did many of my classmates) and got a kick ***** residency IN SPITE of the total nightmare that is Touro-CA.

My favorite thing about SDN is how pre-meds who have NO IDEA what they are talking about will discredit 4 years of personal experience of a graduate with such a cavalier attitude.

It's amazing. Seriously.

Anyway, I have a great deal of sympathy for pre-meds. Its a tremendous choice you are facing. It's not "simple." The best policy is to get as much information as you can, which can be frustrating at times.

Here's my words of advice for investigating the clinical rotations at a school, especially Touro:

They will give you a list of hospitals. They will say "its not a problem, we have the rotations. You can do your 3rd year here."

BE SKEPTICAL OF TOURO. Ask the tough questions:

How many students are taken at each of these hospitals? (They'll often throw in the name of a respectable hospital to distract you, but not tell you that only one student/year rotates there.)

How many students will be assigned to a particular rotation? (30 students assigned to the same surgery rotation means you won't get to scrub in on cases.)

Is it a teaching hospital with supervision for students to assist with procedures? (if its not you'll never put in an IV, never assist with a central line placement, never do an ABG, never learn to suture a laceration. You'll stand there, watching, for two years b/c students aren't covered by hospital insurance policy.)

How many times will you have to move 3rd and 4th years? (If you have to move every 3 months from upstate to downstate to Michigan to get all your required rotations in, you'll be so displaced it will be nearly impossible to focus on learning.)

Will my rotations be inpatient? (An OG/GYN "rotation" at an outpatient clinic means you'll never see a delivery, let alone assist with one. A Medicine rotation at an outpatient clinic means you'll never do an admission, never work-up a patient for MI or Stroke or Afib or GI bleed, or anything else.)

Does the hospital count DOs and Carribean students together? Hospitals/DO schools have started to do this sneaky thing to pack students on rotations. The have quotas on the number of med students they can have on a rotation, but they count DO students separately from MD students (Caribbean) allowing them to take twice as many students.

Is there an organized didactic program at the hospital in which med students can participate? Students sent to hospitals without residency programs in that department. No residency program means no lectures, no teaching rounds, no attendings willing to round on their patients with students. No interns/residents there to help students along.

Does the school compensate attendings to teach? No $$ = no teaching. Attendings are busy people. If you don't pay them to take the time out of their day to teach, they have no incentive to teach.

What rotations are required? What is available? No required neurology rotation means they had such a hard time finding neurology rotations for students that they couldn't require students do one. No neurosurg rotation available means no chance to see neurosurg. No child psych rotation means you won't be seeing child psych.

Which professors from years 1&2 will be continuing to teach students years 3&4? No continuity in teaching means a massive disconnect in your education.

Investigate your field of interest. If you have an interest in peds, ask to speak to someone in the pediatrics department about the rotation. Ask them what the rotation is like for med students. If you can't talk to anyone at all for even a few minutes, this is a red flag.

Ask the tough questions. Don't be fooled by vague promises and a "list of hospitals."

Don't rely solely on admissions personnel. Talk to 4th year students who can tell you their experience with trying to arrange their rotations. Find out what its really like.

Again, do yourself a favor, please talk directly to 4th year medical students and graduates at Touro.

Finally, the attached document should be REQUIRED reading for anyone considering Touro-CA,NV, or NY. This document contains excerpts from the accreditation review - it was publish by local Touro-CA admin. (Dean Troll and Dean Kris.)

bth