TUCOM vs. COMP

[Leotigers]

I am a fourth year medical student at Touro. It's late, so I'll try to be brief. Here are the strengths of TUCOM and COMP as I see it:

TUCOM:

1) Location
2) Flexibility
3) Letters of Recommendation
4) Advantage in Allopathic Match
5) IM, FP, TI, General Surg, and Ortho Surg Residencies in New York.
6) Higher average MCAT scores and GPA.

COMP:

1) Established Curriculum and Rotations
2) Residencies in SoCal which blatantly favor COMP students (another topic for another time).
3) Advantage in Osteopathic Match

TUCOM:

1) I think the location is huge, which helps compensate for some poor rotations. Many students spent the better part of their third year and most of the fourth, rotating through UCSF, Stanford, and UC Davis. Plus, those that didn't got to work with physicians who graduated from the programs.

2) The school was very flexible and this allowed for a lot of away rotations. Otherwise location would not have helped at all.

3) Due to the fact that many people who wrote our letters were MDs who went to or were faculty at UC Davis, UCSF, or Stanford, this helped tremendously in the Allopathic match.

4) We were basically guaranteed spots in New York for residency. Had we not been from Touro, there is no way that some of the people who matched in the specialties through the osteopathic match would have gotten in.


COMP:

1) Great curriculum, facilities, and DOs. All the other health sciences schools also allows for diversity.

2) If you are from COMP, you have a huge advantage in the Osteopathic Family Practice Residencies in Southern California. We had students who match got interview and offered spots outside the match at Columbia, Harvard, UCLA, Yale, etc.... for specialties. Yet, they couldn't even match for the Traditional Internship spot in the Osteopathic match. This is despite the fact that EVERY single program in Southern Ca had open spots that DIDN'T fill. What's up with that. I guess OUR ADMINISTRATORS will remember that when we open up residencies in Northen California. Haha. Seriously, I don't really care. I beleive only 10-15 people went through the osteopathic match. I believe that most who did, did so just for internship but went through the allopathic match.

3) COMP has a better repuatation amongst other DO schools, thus this would be an advantage in osteopathic residencies.

Summary:

I think COMP is a very good school and I have worked with a few graduates from the program up here in NoCal. They are all really bright, then again, they did all their rotations at UC Davis (literally). I heard that since, COMP has really clamped down on the number of away rotations. If you are interested in obtaining an Allopathic residency, go to Touro. There are many more opportunities that exist in the area even if the school does not provide those programs internally. To be honest, all the programs lump the osteopathic candidates together. Trust me when I say that they don't know the difference between COMP, TUCOM, TCOM, KCOM, and whatever COM. All they know is that you went to a DO school in whatever state you went too.

I don't want to speak too soon because the allopathic match hasn't taken place yet, but given the interviews of the classmates I still keep in touch with, I think we will do suprisingly well. I was an average student with average board scores. What I was told was that my Letters of Rec really help set me apart. Not everyone has letters from Stanford and UCSF.

Of course, anyone can do rotations at UCSF and Stanford, but it sure makes things easier when your school has NO limit on the number of away rotations and you happen to live there already.

By the way, 50% of the people who took the USMLE scored above 220. Several people scored 240 or better. Those are just the scores of people I know who took it.

I would say that my OMM training was pretty weak but I was part of the first class and things may have changed alot in the past few years. Who knows?

Don't get me wrong, TUCOM has problems but their are a lot of opportunites.

By the way, our MCAT average is the 2nd highest amongst DO school. I believe the GPA is the highest or second highest. Take that for what it is worth. I'm not saying that MCAT or GPA is a predictor of a successful physician. But, when I appied 4 years ago, COMP's average MCAT was 7 or 8, I can't remember. That didn't sit well with me and it just looked ugly in the 1997 ACCOMAS packet or wherever I found that stat. I'm sure it has changed since then. But when I applied to residencies this year, the Dean's letter included the fact that we have the second highest MCAT average and highest GPA. I think this info can be found at Princeton Review too. This was a strength that was mentioned by many residency directors and those numbers will only increase every year as we are becoming more visible in the bay area. Here is the link to our admissions information:
<a href="http://209.209.34.25/webdocs/admissions/tucominfo.htm" target="_blank">http://209.209.34.25/webdocs/admissions/tucominfo.htm</a>

You can also find it by going to <a href="http://www.tucom.edu" target="_blank">http://www.tucom.edu</a> and click on admissions and then admissions information.

I've read several cricisms about the clinical rotations at Touro too. I rotated through Pacific and Downey (your main sites). There is nothing to brag about there, trust me !!!!!!

Anyway, I'm sure TUCOM will try to take credit for our accomplishments and thus will post our match results. All I can say is, ask me again on March 22 if TUCOM was worth it. I know that I wouldn't have gotten the interviews, letters, and experiences that I did, had I gone to COMP.

Like I said, I have nothing against COMP, and take away location and flexibility, I would have chosen COMP.

Last thing, as we become more visible, we are also getting a lot of really good applicants from Berkeley and Stanford (location again) who want to remain in the Bay area. Next year will also be the first year that we move our PT, OT, and PA programs from New York. Thus, next year, there we will be a full Health Sciences university. Eventually undergrad will follow as well.

Good luck to all.

 

[MTY]

leotiger,
do you have an email address so i can ask you more personal questions?

i'm deciding among chicago med, western, touro (wait-list). i have taken many factors into considerations, at this point, i still haven't made up my mind. i would like to obtain more feedback from people who have attended these schools.

if u don't mind, can i get more insights and info on tucom? why did you choose tucom over comp at first place since you probably didn't have any info on tucom back then?

thanks

 

[Leotigers]

Originally posted by Ponderer:
leotiger,
do you have an email address so i can ask you more personal questions?

i'm deciding among chicago med, western, touro (wait-list). i have taken many factors into considerations, at this point, i still haven't made up my mind. i would like to obtain more feedback from people who have attended these schools.

if u don't mind, can i get more insights and info on tucom? why did you choose tucom over comp at first place since you probably didn't have any info on tucom back then?

thanks••

Ponderer,

I have an unusually high number of friends and family who have applied to medical school this year. This is the same advice I would give to them. This is also assuming they live in California.

A) If you get into an allopathic school in CA, GO!!! No matter where it is

B) If you get into an US Allopathic school in a major US city, GO!!!

C) If you get into a US Allopathic school in Booney Hell or have a significant other in CA, go to a US Osteopathic School in CA

D) If you go to an US Osteopathic School go to Touro unless you have a significant other in SoCal who doesn't want to move.

E) I don't feel I am biased because I really have NO Loyalty to my school at all. I've had to earn everything I got. Many of the most successful students in our class feel the same way. This is a common theme throughout osteopathic medical schools, you've got to help yourself and be independent, especially if you want to go through the allopathic match. I've talked to many people at KCOM, CCOM, PCOM, and NYCOM, and they aren't all too pleased about their education either. The ones I saw at Yale, Harvard, Columbia, etc.... were the ones who setup all their own rotations. Take that for what it's worth. Anyway, I'm probably gonna get slammed by any administrators at osteopathic med school now, so I'm gonna shut up.

F) When I said my school was flexible, it could also mean that they don't have enough of their own quality rotations. Let's be honest, no DO schools have the rotation that UCSF, Stanford, and UC Davis has.

G) What were our school's rotations like?
Some sucked the big one but they have been dropped. The ones that are left are decent but you need to know what to get out of them. The ones at Doctor's Medical Center and Sutter have no interns or residents. What does this mean? This means that you are first assistant on surgeries, deliveries, etc.... Basically you get a lot of experience. The drawback? No teaching at all. You get pimped but you don't get taught. No lectures etc... I had to do a lot of studying on my own to shine. Doing rotations at UCSF, and UCD also helped with my knowledge base because there were always lectures going on. But, having no interns around and residents to compete with for "hands-on" experience really helped. I knew how to manage patients on the wards, suture, put in lines, etc....

H) In a vacuum, COMP is a better school. Unfortunately, in reality things aren't that way.

I) Another thing, UCLA and UCI are too far (with traffic) and aren't very DO friendly. At UC Davis, there are Ortho/Trauma Fellows who are DOs, DO is Anesthesia, IM, FP, Neurosurgery, etc...

J) If you do go to COMP, be sure to go to Hacienda Heights for some good Chinese food !!!!

Try Little Bean on Colima/Fullerton Road and order the Tapioca Iced Tea.

MTY,

I'll email you. I've been on the Adcom, have several family and friends applying, met several DO and MD students on the interview trail, and thus know what the typical gripes and questions are.

Don't sweat where you are going to go. Make sure you choose a location that will make you happy. If you are away from friends and family or live in a DUMP, you'll never be successful because you'll be unhappy. You just won't be as motivated too study. You can be successful no matter where you go DO or MD, COMP or TUCOM. If you are a DO, and want to go through the allopathic match, get letters and do rotations and allopathic institutions. I got a total of 7 letters. 4 from MDs and 3 from DOs. I used whichever ones fit the situation. If you want to do an Osteopathic FP or IM residency in SoCal go to COMP. Trust me, they will blatantly favor you. By the way, TUCOM has several Ortho, GenSurg, IM, FP, and TI spots in NY. Unfortunatley, none of us wanted to go. As I said before, all but 10-15 people went through the allopathic match. Those that did, went into EM, Ortho, or GenSurg.

By the way, our school will be opening up residencies in SF, San Pablo, and Vallejo. The residencies will be in IM, FP, and TI. Just to give you an idea of how competitive they will be, there are only four Prelims and no Transitional Internships in the Bay area. There are none at UC Davis. I believe there are some at UCSF programs but you will be competing with UCSF students who are going into Ophtho, Radiology, Anesthesia, etc... Something to consider if you want to go to the Bay are for residency. If you don't think Touro will favor Touro students, then you are foolish. DO programs (unfortunately) still work through the Good'ol Boy network. Especially, in light of how our students were shunned from the Downey, Pacific, and Arrowhead programs for Internships. My classmates and I were just laughing at how many of us who have interviewed and accepted specialty spots at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, UCSF, etc... couldn't even get get a spot in Long Beach, San Bernandino, or Downey for internship. Especially since no one even wanted to go there since they didn't fill. I for one didn't want to go to Long Beach or Downey. I guess we'll just have to SETTLE for a spot at Yale, Columbia, or UCLA. Darn.....

I think someone asked me how I knew about the school since it was new. The answer is: I didn't. I wanted to be in the Bay area. I saw more potential and opportunity, and I was right. I didn't want to do FP or IM and I lived in LA so I wasn't exactly fond of moving to Pomona. No offense to anyone. Moving to SF sounded a lot better than moving to Pomona.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start a rivalry because we are all DOs and need to support each other. I just think it was foolish for the Program directors to shun the TUCOM students because the people you are hurting is future COMP students who apply to TUCOM residencies. It's not like you were taking spots away from COMP students, your own students didn't even want you. Every single COMP program went unfilled. HELLO !!!! Please, don't give me that crap that there was no favoritism. NOT ONE TUCOM STUDENT matched in a COMP program. I'd say that if we are getting interviews at top ten allopathic schools, we are competitive !!! Same old crap going on at DO schools and residencies.

Get what you can from whatever school you go to. Go to the place that makes you happy and has the most opportunities.

I will post Allopathic match results as they become available. That is, if I can get my hands on them.

I'll at least let you know where my friends/classmates match so you can look them up if you want to go to the same specialty.

 

[MTY]

leotiger
i want to thank you for your informative post.
i will be looking forward to your post for the match residency on 3/22.

thank you,

 

[Leotigers]

For New Yorkers,

You might be interested in the fact that second to CA, we get most of our students from NY. Students can and have spent their ENTIRE 3rd and 4th year at our hospitals in New York. Did I mention that the program director of the IM, FP, General Sugery, and Orthopedic Residencies in NY was one of the founders of our school? This MAY help in securing a residency in surgery. Who knows? There's no favoritism, just like at Pacific and Downey, no favoritism for Family Practice there.

The movement of the Law school and eventually MBA school could lead to DO/JD and DO/MBA programs. Mare Island isn't a pretty site now, but all that barren land means that there is room to re-locate a Law School, Business School, PA, OT, PT, etc.... The future of the school is important because in ten years, no one will remember what the school was like ten years ago, only what it is at that time. I for one would rather be part of something big in the future. No one can say that being at COMP helps secure better residencies, thus with that aside, I'm willing to bet that TUCOM will be one of the top osteopathic schools within a few years. Touro in NY already has a undergrad, law school, business school, OT, PT, PA, and even an MD school in Israel. I bet not many pre-meds knew that, huh?

Like I said before, COMP's osteopathic program in a vacuum is better. But the future is brighter for TUCOM. After your two years of classroom work is done, where you graduate from will stick with you forever. I suspect that in 5-10 years with all the schools moved, Mare Island re-developed, residencies established, TUCOM will be the place to be. If not already.

I think TUCOM kind of lucked out. They won the location lottery. I think instructors and administrators are better at COMP. But, just like the people who bought real estate in the Bay area ten years ago, they lucked out. Is SF the best place to live? No. Does everyone still want to be there and pay through the nose? Yes. This reminds me of when no one wanted to do Radiology. Anyone could get into Radiology back then. Same with Anesthesia. There are now FMGs IVY leagues but this year, Anesthesia at an IVY league or Radiology is impossible to get. For everyone, US DO Or MD. You have to look to the future of the school too and there is just so much more going on at TUCOM.

There is lots going on at COMP too, don't get me wrong. They have many health sciences schools in place already in addition to opening a DVM school (which drives UC Davis crazy). Good luck. I just wanted to throw everyting out there before you guys make a decision. I've seen a lot of support from COMP students and no posts from TUCOM students, thus I feel I had to say something. At least the things I mention, will provide you with questions to ask the school about too. You can't go wrong with either school. COMP was my second choice, even back then.

 

[prolixless]

I appreciate Leotiger's judgements regarding the two schools. But could someone from COMP also please give their impression of the two schools? It would help to confirm Leotiger's judgements or at least fine-tune any biases he might have had.