Tufts vs. Columbia

[PIZZAM]

I put this thread on the pre-dental forum, but didn't get enough input. I will be an entering dental student and need to make my decision in the next week. I am sure there is many of you who had to make the same decision and was wondering which one you chose and why?? Also do you regret the decision, why? Any input would be much appreciated, even if you don't attend either school. I do want to specialize (I know it's hard to be sure before dental school). What do you think??

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[ADMD]

I put this thread on the pre-dental forum, but didn't get enough input. I will be an entering dental student and need to make my decision in the next week. I am sure there is many of you who had to make the same decision and was wondering which one you chose and why?? Also do you regret the decision, why? Any input would be much appreciated, even if you don't attend either school. I do want to specialize (I know it's hard to be sure before dental school). What do you think??

Although, I am not currenly in dental school. My friend attends Columbia. From what she has told me, the school has a rigorous academic program (I am sure all dental schools do). The school has a pass/fail grading system. She said that the area the school is located in is not the best, but she doesn't mind it. The class size is small (approx 40) and majority of the students specialize.

She was accepted at Tufts as well and at first she regretted her decision but now I think she is happy with Columbia. She really liked the facilities at Tufts. She said they were better than Columbia's facilities. She didn't like the fact that the class size was large (approx 150 people).

I hope this helps somewhat.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Its my personal opinion, but I think Tufts is the best all around dental school that Ive seen. It has amazing facilities, great clinicals, and top board scores. The only negatives about Tufts is the cost and its class size!!

By the way, to make a correction to the above poster, Columbia's class size is 75.

 

[gundam]

I put this thread on the pre-dental forum, but didn't get enough input. I will be an entering dental student and need to make my decision in the next week. I am sure there is many of you who had to make the same decision and was wondering which one you chose and why?? Also do you regret the decision, why? Any input would be much appreciated, even if you don't attend either school. I do want to specialize (I know it's hard to be sure before dental school). What do you think??

It seems like specialty is the only concern you have. Even though it's hard to be sure before dental school, I suggest you weigh your options. If you go to dentaltown.com (you should go there get dentists' opinion, they are definitely more helpful than the kids here), you'd find out many dentists outta there have been through the same period of time as us. Most would want to specialize before dental school starts, but the fact is as time moves on, most of the most changed their mind. So I chose Tufts over Columbia. Here's my reasoning after consulting with many dentists:

If you choose Columbia because you THINK you want to specialize. Think again. I don’t understand why some folks here really like to exaggerate the possibility of specializing at Columbia. Do a research on your own. Out of 255 ortho positions matched last year and there are 50 dental schools in total; that averaged to 5 per school. Columbia matched 7 out 15, slightly over average but look at how many people applied, the ratio of getting accepted is less than 50%. Other schools like Nova matched 7 out of 7, Temple matched 6 out of 6 and the list goes on… In a nutshell all other schools have an equal or even better possibility of getting into specialty. Having good boards and keeping your grades up will get you into specialty no matter where you are. BTW Tufts matched 6 oral surgeons last year if I were correct, same as Columbia.

Other possibility at Columbia is if you changed your mind and would like to pursue GP (80% chance), it will mean an additional year of training at least, or a 170,000 potential opportunity cost. Many have said to be a GP at Columbia is a 5-year program. And many will also tell you, even after one year of GPR, it's still embarrassing to see Columbia GPs do their work. Frankly Columbia carries one of the weakest clinical programs in the nation; it was once to the edge of losing its accreditation due to the inability to train dentists with sufficient practice.

Said much about Columbia, now on the other hand, if you go to Tufts, you are looking at a great if not the best clinical training in the nation. After four years you will probably find out that you are the fastest and best clinician in your associate practice. And the great thing about Tufts is that, no toughie professors tortures students like at Columbia, and you can get Hygiene certificate after second year so you can practice your hands and pay back your loans in dental school. You will live an easier life and learn the most efficient material. In addition to that, you get to specialize if you decide to after DS1/DS2.

I’m sorry I really don’t want to bash Columbia. Honestly I would bow down to the reputation to the reputation of Columbia’s undergraduate, MD, law, and MBA program, but Columbia SDOS has done enough to mislead pre dent students. At interviews we were given false information such as postdoctoral rate of 98%. This might actually be a symbol of the weakness of its program, simply because graduates cannot do dentists’ work. I also remember at my interview a DS4 student was saying “Come to CU if you want to specialize” but then I asked him if he’s specializing he put his head down and said he’s going to do GPR and then become a GP, how ironic. I think they feel unfair so they are unconsciously repeating the same false info they were given to you.

Enough said, it’s really your choice. Nobody decides for you.

 

[realysa]

gundam,

i bet you go to temple or nyu, right?

please answer, i'm very curious!

 

[realysa]

oops!

should have read more carefully.

you go to tufts.

my apologies, i should've added tufts and bu to my list above. lot of columbia haters at those schools. i can see why though.
you think we are parasites of columbia's ivy league reputation. probably true, but better a columbia parasite than a tufts parasite.

 

[Reed1978]

better a columbia parasite than a tufts parasite.

Why is that? Just because Spanish Harlem is the academic and cultural hub of the galaxy...oh wait, no it's not - Boston is. Nevermind. I think you are confusing "hate" with "just not caring". Tufts is THEE premier clinical school on the continent. Let's not confuse the issue here. Next time, try pretending that you actually know what you're talking about.

 

[Rezdawg]

probably true, but better a columbia parasite than a tufts parasite.

Im not going to either school, but clinically speaking, Tufts has the edge over Columbia, there is no disputing that. People dont go to Tufts purely because it has a good name, they go to Tufts to be among the most clinically competent coming out of D-School.

 

[realysa]

Why is that? Just because Spanish Harlem is the academic and cultural hub of the galaxy...oh wait, no it's not - Boston is. Nevermind. I think you are confusing "hate" with "just not caring". Tufts is THEE premier clinical school on the continent. Let's not confuse the issue here. Next time, try pretending that you actually know what you're talking about.

i told you everyone

reed1978= typical columbia hater!

i assume you aren't from the boston area. you're probably from oklahoma or somewhere similar.

b/c in boston, "the academic universe," tufts is seen as a also-ran.

if you knew what you were talking about, you would know.

 

[Reed1978]

i told you everyone

reed1978= typical columbia hater!

i assume you aren't from the boston area. you're probably from oklahoma or somewhere similar.

b/c in boston, "the academic universe," tufts is seen as a also-ran.

if you knew what you were talking about, you would know.

Again, you are confusing "hate" with "just not caring". It's a lot like the relationship between Canada and the USA. Canada is continually standing on it's head and doing cartwheels just to try to get the States to pay attention for 5 minutes, but the Americans are too busy being #1 to even notice. But, keep spazzing out, I'm sure you will eventually convince yourself that Columbia is worth the effort - and I'm sure it was your first choice for dental school, right?

P.S. I'm not sure what being from Oklahoma, or "somewhere similar" (whatever that means and where ever that is) would have to do with anything. But I can say this...if I were from Oklahoma (which I'm not, sorry to say), then I suspect that my going to Tufts would certainly speak volumes about the applicant pool from that state.

 

[realysa]

i read many studies that showed tufts grads had better clinical skills than columbia grads.

anyways, enjoy second class citizen status in boston as a tufts student.

 

[lnn2]

All of you are wrong! I heard it from a friend who had heard from another friend who had friends at those schools. Words on the street are that both schools suck! So I guess that you're getting screwed, one way or another!

 

[gundam]

anyways, enjoy second class citizen status in boston as a tufts student.

Why are you such a jerk, and your comments are full of garbage.
Who do you think you are, does the fact that you happened to be accepted to Columbia make you much better than other people on this forum?
I've known many people who were accepted to Columbia but didn't get a shxt to them.
It's the typical Columbia attitude that makes us sick.
Afterall, you will end up as a second citizen in Columbia as well. Watch out those MDs who have far more superior stats and intelligence than you.
Disgusting.

 

[gundam]

oops!
you think we are parasites of columbia's ivy league reputation. probably true, but better a columbia parasite than a tufts parasite.

Yes, I do think you are a parasite.
Your ignorance and arrogance disgraced you.
You think the Columbia name will carry on with you for the rest of your life. Sure, wait until you graduate, don’t make into specialty, and get yelled by dentists who graduated from an unknown school.
I don’t understand. Though it’s not hard to get into Columbia, why only people there have this kind of attitude, but not UW, Harvard and many others.
You are such a parasite that you suck out dirt and shxt.

 

[Rezdawg]

i read many studies that showed tufts grads had better clinical skills than columbia grads.

anyways, enjoy second class citizen status in boston as a tufts student.

So are you saying that if Columbia was in Boston, it would be third class?

 

[Gulch]

MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD!!!!! This whole thread is ******ed. I heard more intelligent arguments at recess.

But I can't resist, so here's my 2 cents:

To be honest, Columbia is my top pick, but Realysa, I hope your classless comments do NOT represent an inflated and condescending attitude of students there. Get off your high horse before the real world has to take you down a few pegs--I'd hate to see your self-esteem by association evaporate into nothing as you realize the school you attended doesn't make you better than anyone else. Graduating from CUSDOS doesn't necessarily even make you a better dentist. And what was that you were trying to insinuate about Oklahoma? Where do you get off making sweeping generalizations about schools and states? You know what though- whatever makes you feel better about yourself is cool. Just try to be less smug about it.

 

[realysa]

boy,.

i'm just sick of columbia haters on this forum. coincidently, most these people seem to go to schools like temple, tufts, or boston u.

don't knock on us columbia students b/c we unfairly derive some prestige from our parent institution.

in all honesty, all dental schools suck. just saying i'd rather be a columbia one than a tufts one.

 

[gundam]

boy,.

i'm just sick of columbia haters on this forum. coincidently, most these people seem to go to schools like temple, tufts, or boston u.

don't knock on us columbia students b/c we unfairly derive some prestige from our parent institution.

in all honesty, all dental schools suck. just saying i'd rather be a columbia one than a tufts one.

You don't know what you are talking about boy.
If Columbia opens up a strip dancer school, it would be prestigious too!?
At a retension rate of only 38% every year, what are you really proud of.
Shame on you.

 

[Rezdawg]

boy,.

i'm just sick of columbia haters on this forum. coincidently, most these people seem to go to schools like temple, tufts, or boston u.

don't knock on us columbia students b/c we unfairly derive some prestige from our parent institution.

Im not a Columbia hater...I just hate on jackasses.

 

[Woodsy]

columbia might not be clinically as good as tufts but it will help you specialize. don't go to columbia unless u want to . They will do everything they can to make sure u do well on ur boards and have mentors to take care of you. That is what you pay for in Ivy league. They will take care of u. Of course they can't guarantee you anything but trust me, reference letters from those profs are worth more than ur academic merits EXCEPT for your board scores. not to mention it will benefit ur future to know such powerful people. It's all about who you know not what. Your classmates, some are from the wealthiest and politically influencial families in the USA/World as well. Get my point?

 

[realysa]

"At a retension rate of only 38% every year"

i see you are quite a skalar!

dude, if the field of dentistry didn't have harvard, columbia, or upenn, it would probably get as much respect as pods and chiro.

everyone has to respect and recognize this fact. temple, boston, and tufts ain't helping.

 

[onetoothleft]

"dude, if the field of dentistry didn't have harvard, columbia, or upenn, it would probably get as much respect as pods and chiro.

I never thought about it this way . . . It does make sense though.

 

[QuietGuy]

"At a retension rate of only 38% every year"

i see you are quite a skalar!

dude, if the field of dentistry didn't have harvard, columbia, or upenn, it would probably get as much respect as pods and chiro.

everyone has to respect and recognize this fact. temple, boston, and tufts ain't helping.

Acceptance stats
Columbia University Overall GPA 3.24 DAT AA 21
Harvard School of Dental Medicine Overall GPA 3.78 DAT AA 22

With a lot of effort, anyone can do well on the DAT. I'm sorry to say that a 3.24 average acceptance GPA does not impress anyone. I could have slept through college and gotten a 3.24. Columbia and Harvard do not belong in the same category.

 

[realysa]

Acceptance stats
Columbia University Overall GPA 3.24 DAT AA 21
Harvard School of Dental Medicine Overall GPA 3.78 DAT AA 22

With a lot of effort, anyone can do well on the DAT. I'm sorry to say that a 3.24 average acceptance GPA does not impress anyone. I could have slept through college and gotten a 3.24. Columbia and Harvard do not belong in the same category.

if you've paying attention, you see that've been knocking columbia as well as other dental schools. the whole dat is a farce and i bet the bulk of students that are attending harvard dental school are your state schoolers, mid or low tier college grads with lots of community college credits to pump that gpa up. if you look at the harvard med class i'm sure it's very different ( diff. class demographics).

i know at columbia that most of the med students are grads of prestigious schools, unlike the dental school.

dentistry is a great profession, but you're not gonna find too many intellectuals or the "elite" even at harvard dental.

i'm dental student and my dad is a dentist, so don't take it too personal, people

 

[ajmacgregor]

...i bet the bulk of students that are attending harvard dental school are your state schoolers, mid or low tier college grads with lots of community college credits to pump that gpa up. if you look at the harvard med class i'm sure it's very different ( diff. class demographics).

Wow, this is incredibly offensive - and not just to people at Harvard, but pretty much to anyone who attended state school or community college.

Look - the fact of the matter is that the DAT is supposed to be the "great equalizer" in terms of comparing students from different schools. While you may have little to no respect for the test, it is the tool that is used as a comparison and has been validated in this regard. I'd say that for someone with a high GPA and a good DAT score, the DAT has only served to confirm the validity of the high GPA.

Now, the second part of your statement is pretty much bunk. My cousin is at HSDM, and I know that there are a number of people in his class that went to GREAT schools (UCLA, Princeton, Washington University, Wellesley, MIT, Stanford, Rice, Cornell). I'll go even further to state that I have met a number of his friends from HMS, and they went to "mid or low tier schools" as you say.

 

[Rezdawg]

the whole dat is a farce and i bet the bulk of students that are attending harvard dental school are your state schoolers, mid or low tier college grads with lots of community college credits to pump that gpa up. if you look at the harvard med class i'm sure it's very different ( diff. class demographics).

HAHAHA, you couldnt be more off...one of my best friends from college (Washington University) is there and when I visited her, all her friends went to awesome schools.

Bro, keep up the great work, you are making Columbia look AWESOME!!!!

 

[realysa]

HAHAHA, you couldnt be more off...one of my best friends from college is there (Washington University) and when I visited her, all her friends went to awesome schools.

Bro, keep up the great work, you are making Columbia look AWESOME!!!!

dude, i'm not trying to make columbia look awesome. you're missing the point.

just b/c you know some people in dental who went to a good school doesn't mean much. you have to look at the overall picture. seriously, take a good look at your class and you'll see i'm right.

i guess rezdawg is living proof of what i'm saying!

rezdawg, you picked the right profession and i'm glad that you will be a colleague of mine in the near future. we need more bulldogs like you to uphold and defend the field of dentistry from critics like myself.

 

[Rezdawg]

just b/c you know some people in dental who went to a good school doesn't mean much. you have to look at the overall picture. seriously, take a good look at your class and you'll see i'm right.

You lost me...

First, you said that the bulk of Harvard students are from state schools, or mid to lower tier schools.

Then, I countered your completely invalid statement by telling you about my friend, a 3rd year at HSDM, who went to college at Washington University...and her core group of friends who went to great schools as well.

And now, you are saying that just because I know some people, it doesnt mean much.

The class size is only around 35, so having a small sample size can give you a better measure of the kind of students who attend the school than a school that carries 100+ students.

Bottom line is that Harvard dental students are very smart, regardless of what school they attended during their undergrad years.

Now, if you are talking about BU, my school, then Im sure your argument holds water. If they let me in, then Im sure they let a bunch of random a$$ people in.

 

[realysa]

You lost me...

First, you said that the bulk of Harvard students are from state schools, or mid to lower tier schools.

Then, I countered your completely invalid statement by telling you about my friend, a 3rd year at HSDM, who went to college at Washington University...and her core group of friends who went to great schools as well.

And now, you are saying that just because I know some people, it doesnt mean much.

The class size is only around 35, so having a small sample size can give you a better measure of the kind of students who attend the school than a school that carries 100+ students.

Bottom line is that Harvard dental students are very smart, regardless of what school they attended during their undergrad years.

Now, if you are talking about BU, my school, then Im sure your argument holds water. If they let me in, then Im sure they let a bunch of random a$$ people in.

okay rezdawg, i concede.

your "i know some people" argument is hard to refute. i think it's on an intellectual plane of which i have no understanding.

yes, harvard students are very smart and so are you! i know the bu dental debate team is excited to have you grace their campus.

 

[ajmacgregor]

okay rezdawg, i concede.

your "i know some people" argument is hard to refute. i think it's on an intellectual plane of which i have no understanding.

yes, harvard students are very smart and so are you! i know the bu dental debate team is excited to have you grace their campus.

Well it's certainly no worse an argument than your "I'll bet that most of these Harvard kids went to lower tier schools and had high GPAs from all of their community college classes..."

The HSDM class my cousin is in has 35 students in it. By my count, at least 18 of these students went to "Top Schools" (Ivy League, Stanford, MIT, Wash. U, etc.). That's a little more than half.

 

[gundam]

"At a retension rate of only 38% every year"

i see you are quite a skalar!

dude, if the field of dentistry didn't have harvard, columbia, or upenn, it would probably get as much respect as pods and chiro.

everyone has to respect and recognize this fact. temple, boston, and tufts ain't helping.

As I expected, you are probably too dumb to understand this anyways.
Speaking of retension rate, it means out of 100 students accepted to Columbia, only 38 people would like to attend the school.
Columbia is not hard to get in. And now you are selling Columbia like you are still sucking your mom's tits. Get a life kid.
Given that dentistry as a profession where you will be opening up your own practice, I don't see how the school name could have done anything to help you unless you have good clinical skill and great personality, and I can see clearly you have neither.
Unless it's Harvard, it doesn't matter where you go.

 

[gundam]

if you've paying attention, you see that've been knocking columbia as well as other dental schools. the whole dat is a farce and i bet the bulk of students that are attending harvard dental school are your state schoolers, mid or low tier college grads with lots of community college credits to pump that gpa up. if you look at the harvard med class i'm sure it's very different ( diff. class demographics).

i know at columbia that most of the med students are grads of prestigious schools, unlike the dental school.

dentistry is a great profession, but you're not gonna find too many intellectuals or the "elite" even at harvard dental.

i'm dental student and my dad is a dentist, so don't take it too personal, people

I feel bad for you son, you don't even have faith in yourself. You probably are a loser anyways. If you dare let me know you name, my friends at Columbia law school will teach you a good lesson.

 

[Reed1978]

dude, if the field of dentistry didn't have harvard, columbia, or upenn, it would probably get as much respect as pods and chiro.

everyone has to respect and recognize this fact. temple, boston, and tufts ain't helping.

Why aren't Temple, Boston, and Tufts "helping". And are Harvard, Columbia and U Penn really adding so much to the reputation of dental medicine? When people mention any of the Ivy schools, "outstanding dental program" never comes to mind. Mention U. Buffalo, Case Western, Tufts and Temple - and I'm 100% certain the response will be different. Again, Tufts doesn't hate, we're just too big to care. Oh, and the only reason that Harvard even shows up on the radar is because the students there have to come to our National Board review classes to learn the material for the first time.

 

[Reed1978]

P.S. Tufts was #4 this year for Board scores, and our clinical skills are on point.

 

[Reed1978]

P.S.S. Columbia wasn't your first choice school and everybody knows it.

 

[realysa]

gundam,

damn kid, retention not retension! retention= dropout/total, yield=accepted/matriculate

let me guess, you went to college with "state, a&m, or st". in its name

when you find me, whatcha gonna do. childish boy!

reed1978,

dude, when did i say dental school was prestigous. you should read more carefully.

rezdawg,

so far 18?/35 from prestigous schools. now you're closer to a valid point.

 

[ajmacgregor]

Oh, and the only reason that Harvard even shows up on the radar is because the students there have to come to our National Board review classes to learn the material for the first time.

Yeah, they go to Tufts for the Dental Anatomy review. I highly doubt that they go to the Tufts review for anything else...

I find it funny that they spend two days at your dental anatomy review and do much better on the boards than you guys.

 

[realysa]

hey let's make truce!

dentistry is great, all dental schools are great, spelling and meaning of words shall be treated as art (individual preference). ivy league is overrated, harvard has 34 students from harvard undergrad, columbia is a backwater of dentistry, all undergrad instit are equally hard and attract the same of student regardless if state, private, community. getting angry and threatening is called for on friendly public forums, what else have i left out.

last of all, i apologize for being a jerk.

good luck to all! let's make lots of money and possibly help some people along the way!

so long!

 

[Reed1978]

I find it funny that they spend two days at your dental anatomy review and do much better on the boards than you guys.

I find it funny that they spend two days at a one day review.

 

[ajmacgregor]

I find it funny that they spend two days at a one day review.

My bad - in the past Silvestri's review was broken up over two days. My point remains the same.

 

[Halitosis]

At interviews we were given false information such as postdoctoral rate of 98%. This might actually be a symbol of the weakness of its program, simply because graduates cannot do dentists’ work. I also remember at my interview a DS4 student was saying “Come to CU if you want to specialize” but then I asked him if he’s specializing he put his head down and said he’s going to do GPR and then become a GP, how ironic. I think they feel unfair so they are unconsciously repeating the same false info they were given to you.

Enough said, it’s really your choice. Nobody decides for you.

at the interview, they give everyone a sheet which broke down the 98% clearly. columbia did not lie.

 

[Halitosis]

Yes, I do think you are a parasite.
Your ignorance and arrogance disgraced you.
You think the Columbia name will carry on with you for the rest of your life. Sure, wait until you graduate, don’t make into specialty, and get yelled by dentists who graduated from an unknown school.
I don’t understand. Though it’s not hard to get into Columbia, why only people there have this kind of attitude, but not UW, Harvard and many others.
You are such a parasite that you suck out dirt and shxt.

columbia is not hard for highly qualified applicants to get in b/c many turn down their acceptances. the reason they do that is b/c they don't want to go through the rigorous didactic training in the first two years. that's not columbia's fault.

there are not many uw, harvard ppl posting here.

 

[Halitosis]

columbia is not hard for highly qualified applicants to get in b/c many turn down their acceptances. the reason they do that is b/c they don't want to go through the rigorous didactic training in the first two years. that's not columbia's fault.

there are not many uw, harvard ppl posting here.

ps. go to the lounge and check out how many "nyc meetings" they host.

 

[gundam]

at the interview, they give everyone a sheet which broke down the 98% clearly. columbia did not lie.

At the interview, the sheet does show the 98%. In fact you can go to their website and find the same sheet. What I'm talking here is that the 98% consists 78% of GPR and AEGD. Nobody needs GPR expect for Columbia.

 

[Halitosis]

Acceptance stats
Columbia University Overall GPA 3.24 DAT AA 21

wrong.

 

[Halitosis]

With a lot of effort, anyone can do well on the DAT.

true. but, not everyone is willing to put in that effort. that's why answering correctly a paltry ~75% of the questions on the dat gets you a 96 percentile(summer 03).

u a predent right? shouldn't disparage our test, even for the sake of supporting ur argument. if a pre-med labeled our test as a "joke" i bet you'd foam at the mouth and rip him a new ass.

 

[Halitosis]

Given that dentistry as a profession where you will be opening up your own practice, I don't see how the school name could have done anything to help you unless you have good clinical skill and great personality, and I can see clearly you have neither.
Unless it's Harvard, it doesn't matter where you go.

obviously, to build a track record of skill and chair side manner, you have to start working. so, what's going to attract patients when you just graduated and don't have a track record yet?

 

[Halitosis]

gundam,

damn kid, retention not retension! retention= dropout/total, yield=accepted/matriculate

let me guess, you went to college with "state, a&m, or st". in its name

HA!

 

[Halitosis]

At the interview, the sheet does show the 98%. In fact you can go to their website and find the same sheet. What I'm talking here is that the 98% consists 78% of GPR and AEGD. Nobody needs GPR expect for Columbia.

so, how did columbia "mislead pre dents" w/ the "false information" that you mentioned on page 1?

 

[Woodsy]

Hey Gundam, what do you have against Columbia? It seems as if you have a bitter hatred against that school. Don't say stating the facts, because your interpretation seems much different than say, Halitosis. I am curious. Why are you bashing Columbia? Which school do you attend?