Tufts vs UMDNJ NJDS

[Adamsswag]

Hey guys I was wondering what you thought about these schools... which one would you rather attend if you are...

-a NJ resident
-majority of the money paid for tuition will be from loans
-not sure about specializing, but keeping my options open

Please let me know which school y'all would choose and why you would choose it... thanks guys!

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[CedarZ4]

Hey guys I was wondering what you thought about these schools... which one would you rather attend if you are...

-a NJ resident
-majority of the money paid for tuition will be from loans
-not sure about specializing, but keeping my options open

Please let me know which school y'all would choose and why you would choose it... thanks guys!

Tufts:

Pros: Better reputation, one of the top clinical schools out there (pretty close with Temple and Maryland), no problem getting patients despite being close to other dental schools (from what I researched at least, no personal experience) always has the newest technology, in Boston so a lot more to do and safer than Newark.
Cons: More expensive, super cold (but so is NJ), farther away from home.

UMDNJ:
Pros: Cheaper, probably has just as large a patient pool as Tufts but with a different background (poor, underserved, etc.), closer to home.
Cons: Faculty not as good as Tufts, in Newark, doesn't have the name/reputation.

Pretty much, the only reason one would choose UMDNJ over Tufts is to save money. Overall, Tufts is a better school and has a better reputation. How important do you think the extra money will be to you? Will you have a significantly better lifestyle in Boston compared to Newark that will negate the cost difference? Only you can decide.

For me?
If money is a significant issue: UMDNJ
If you can realistically pay for the tuition difference (weather it be loans or family): Tufts

I know this post doesn't really help, but it really depends on what you are looking for in a dental education. What is more important to you? Money? Training? Prestige?

 

[pinpoint212]

Tufts:

Pros: Better reputation, one of the top clinical schools out there (pretty close with Temple and Maryland), no problem getting patients despite being close to other dental schools (from what I researched at least, no personal experience) always has the newest technology, in Boston so a lot more to do and safer than Newark.
Cons: More expensive, super cold (but so is NJ), farther away from home.

UMDNJ:
Pros: Cheaper, probably has just as large a patient pool as Tufts but with a different background (poor, underserved, etc.), closer to home.
Cons: Faculty not as good as Tufts, in Newark, doesn't have the name/reputation.

Pretty much, the only reason one would choose UMDNJ over Tufts is to save money. Overall, Tufts is a better school and has a better reputation. How important do you think the extra money will be to you? Will you have a significantly better lifestyle in Boston compared to Newark that will negate the cost difference? Only you can decide.

For me?
If money is a significant issue: UMDNJ
If you can realistically pay for the tuition difference (weather it be loans or family): Tufts

I know this post doesn't really help, but it really depends on what you are looking for in a dental education. What is more important to you? Money? Training? Prestige?

tufts facilities are 10x better than umdnj.. plus you wont hear gunshots at night in boston

 

[qnzbabi91]

Tufts. My friend at UMDNJ doesn't like it at all and I hated the neighborhood there.

Forgot to add, UMDNJ takes attendence for all your classes either through a sign-in sheet or quiz. I think that is why my friend doesn't like it.

 

[Sal427]

I had to decide between these two schools as well, and ultimately I couldn't justify spending that much more money and going to Tufts. Tufts has a lot of good things going for it, like being able to become a TA your third or fourth year, and all the honors programs if you want to specialize. One thing that was weird when I was there though was that the clinic was pretty empty and even our tour guide was wondering where all the students were. Maybe it was just bad timing.

Anyway, I felt a really good vibe from students at UMDNJ. The professor that interviewed me was great as well, and many students stopped him to say hi and ask questions. UMDNJ had that nice, brand new clinic as well. Ya the neighborhood is bad, but you can just live on campus in that building that's connected to the school. Eventually, you can move to surrounding towns and just drive in and park right on campus. It might be nice to have that separation from school and home.

 

[RU1992]

I second Cedar's advice. It's really what you value, money or prestige/clinical experience. Tufts probably has a better name, but UMDNJ is a lot cheaper/closer to home. It's what you prefer.

PS: When did you receive your acceptance to UMDNJ? Were you wait listed or what? Thanks!

 

[Msmouth]

UMDNJ is also known for a great clinical experience. I have worked with many dentists that went there and that's what they tell me. I think it may be hard to compare that sort of thing but that is their reputation.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

Tufts is a better school but njds is cheaper. go with the cheaper school and your wallet will thank you when you graduate.

as a side note, the job market in NJ for general dentists is terrible anyway (which is what i've heard from many, many dentists)...so if you plan on staying in state and manage to get a lower paying gig, you won't have as much of a difficult time paying back loans

so my vote is njds.

edit: come to think of it, wouldn't going to buffalo be cheaper anyway (assuming that you're living on campus at NJDS)? granted, you'll pay OOS your first year at buffalo, but after you declare in state status is d2-d4 cheaper? the cost of living in buffalo is relatively low as well

 

[Dante60]

You can safely ignore everyone on this thread who hasn't graduated and isn't paying off their loans yet. They have zero clue. I'm a Tufts grad, and a boarded prosthodontist, and working in private practice with a good amount of loans. You *HAVE* to go where it's cheaper. Nothing else matters. The 'name' of a school means nothing. If you go to Tufts, you will have a 400k+ loan. Do you know what your loan payments are going to be? A minimum of 3k/mo. for 20 years. If you want to pay it off in 10 years, try closer to 5k.

There's no stress like have a stupid school loan over your head. Go to where it's cheapest. Clinical skills will come with time. The most important thing you can learn in dental school is how to connect with your patients and you don't need to pay a huge amount of money to do that.

It gets really frustrating seeing all the pre-dents worry about the name of a school. It doesn't matter at all. Not even for specialization.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

You can safely ignore everyone on this thread who hasn't graduated and isn't paying off their loans yet. They have zero clue. I'm a Tufts grad, and a boarded prosthodontist, and working in private practice with a good amount of loans. You *HAVE* to go where it's cheaper. Nothing else matters. The 'name' of a school means nothing. If you go to Tufts, you will have a 400k+ loan. Do you know what your loan payments are going to be? A minimum of 3k/mo. for 20 years. If you want to pay it off in 10 years, try closer to 5k.

There's no stress like have a stupid school loan over your head. Go to where it's cheapest. Clinical skills will come with time. The most important thing you can learn in dental school is how to connect with your patients and you don't need to pay a huge amount of money to do that.

It gets really frustrating seeing all the pre-dents worry about the name of a school. It doesn't matter at all. Not even for specialization.

👍

 

[CedarZ4]

You can safely ignore everyone on this thread who hasn't graduated and isn't paying off their loans yet. They have zero clue. I'm a Tufts grad, and a boarded prosthodontist, and working in private practice with a good amount of loans. You *HAVE* to go where it's cheaper. Nothing else matters. The 'name' of a school means nothing. If you go to Tufts, you will have a 400k+ loan. Do you know what your loan payments are going to be? A minimum of 3k/mo. for 20 years. If you want to pay it off in 10 years, try closer to 5k.

There's no stress like have a stupid school loan over your head. Go to where it's cheapest. Clinical skills will come with time. The most important thing you can learn in dental school is how to connect with your patients and you don't need to pay a huge amount of money to do that.

It gets really frustrating seeing all the pre-dents worry about the name of a school. It doesn't matter at all. Not even for specialization.

Not true. At all.

While I do agree name of the school won't really change your ability to specialize, that doesn't mean the name doesn't matter.

As "silly" as you may think, or others, some people do look at prestige of the school. They like to say, "Yeah, I went to Harvard" etc. Not to mention, your degree will follow you for the rest of your life. Even though it's true that going to UMDNJ or Tufts can put you in the same place, making the same amount of money, and just as good of a dentist, it still plays a role. What you hang up for everyone to see, will be UMDNJ, not Tufts. This matters to some people. Matters to some patient. Maybe you want to run for a committee or a high political position, they will, weather you like it or not, look at your dental education institution and that could have an effect. That is why I say, it depends on what is important to you. To you, it's money. Maybe the OP is willing to take the extra loans for a diploma that say Tufts.

 

[Dante60]

Not true. At all.

While I do agree name of the school won't really change your ability to specialize, that doesn't mean the name doesn't matter.

As "silly" as you may think, or others, some people do look at prestige of the school. They like to say, "Yeah, I went to Harvard" etc. Not to mention, your degree will follow you for the rest of your life. Even though it's true that going to UMDNJ or Tufts can put you in the same place, making the same amount of money, and just as good of a dentist, it still plays a role. What you hang up for everyone to see, will be UMDNJ, not Tufts. This matters to some people. Matters to some patient. Maybe you want to run for a committee or a high political position, they will, weather you like it or not, look at your dental education institution and that could have an effect. That is why I say, it depends on what is important to you. To you, it's money. Maybe the OP is willing to take the extra loans for a diploma that say Tufts.

Cedar, when did you graduate from dental school so I have a sense for what your tuition was?

I'm offering advise because most if not all of the advise on this thread has minimal value. My post isn't aimed at the person who wants a Harvard diploma on the wall because its pretty. My post is to wake all of the pre-dents up. The diploma is a tool. Nothing more. It's use is limited to get the owner a license. Beyond that it's a pretty piece of paper.

If the OP is taking out full loans, my advise is to minimize the loans as much as possible. I work in a high end pros practice. Guess what - none of my patients see me because I'm a Tufts grad. They don't see the owner because he's a BU grad. They don't see the other associates because of their relationships to their various schools. They see us because of the quality of the practice and because they are comfortable here.

****. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter what school you graduated from if you were to run for office, so long as you were never caught inhaling or snorting.

If it's so valuable that someone goes to Tufts, more power them. But let's face some facts. The name doesn't matter for any other reason.

BTW I did my GPR at UMDNJ and I know for a fact that there was no appreciable difference in the quality of the education.

 

[Surive123]

You can safely ignore everyone on this thread who hasn't graduated and isn't paying off their loans yet. They have zero clue. I'm a Tufts grad, and a boarded prosthodontist, and working in private practice with a good amount of loans. You *HAVE* to go where it's cheaper. Nothing else matters. The 'name' of a school means nothing. If you go to Tufts, you will have a 400k+ loan. Do you know what your loan payments are going to be? A minimum of 3k/mo. for 20 years. If you want to pay it off in 10 years, try closer to 5k.

There's no stress like have a stupid school loan over your head. Go to where it's cheapest. Clinical skills will come with time. The most important thing you can learn in dental school is how to connect with your patients and you don't need to pay a huge amount of money to do that.

It gets really frustrating seeing all the pre-dents worry about the name of a school. It doesn't matter at all. Not even for specialization.

Cedar, when did you graduate from dental school so I have a sense for what your tuition was?

I'm offering advise because most if not all of the advise on this thread has minimal value. My post isn't aimed at the person who wants a Harvard diploma on the wall because its pretty. My post is to wake all of the pre-dents up. The diploma is a tool. Nothing more. It's use is limited to get the owner a license. Beyond that it's a pretty piece of paper.

If the OP is taking out full loans, my advise is to minimize the loans as much as possible. I work in a high end pros practice. Guess what - none of my patients see me because I'm a Tufts grad. They don't see the owner because he's a BU grad. They don't see the other associates because of their relationships to their various schools. They see us because of the quality of the practice and because they are comfortable here.

****. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter what school you graduated from if you were to run for office, so long as you were never caught inhaling or snorting.

If it's so valuable that someone goes to Tufts, more power them. But let's face some facts. The name doesn't matter for any other reason.

BTW I did my GPR at UMDNJ and I know for a fact that there was no appreciable difference in the quality of the education.

Thank you.

I don't think I can stand another "well, this school is better than this one", "well prestige", "if you want to specialize"...etc...

Blows my mind that people constantly feed into this misconception. I get a chuckle when people are aghast when I tell them I chose a school over another because it was 100k cheaper...but well, it doesn't have the "prestige".

 

[Msmouth]

I want to just add to this based on my own experience.
I have been working as an RDH mainly in NJ for many years and have worked at many offices over the years because I also do temporary work in addition to my regular hours. I have seen the good and the bad in all aspects of dentistry. I've seen complete neglect, unethical practices and diagnosing unnecessary work. The dentists that impress me most are by far those who went to UMDNJ. I have worked for many years for dentists that went to FDU (NJ school that closed down) and have also worked with Columbia, NYU, Tufts, and others. I can say with complete confidence that the patients don't care where they went to school and rarely if ever ask.
When I do work with UMDNJ graduates I find the following, compared with the others and that's not to say that I haven't worked with exceptional dentists from other schools.
-excellent case presentations skills
-I concur with what is diagnosed
-restorative skills are good-excellent
-Nearly all of them seemed to have it together and ran their business efficiently

Again, take this for what it is worth from a person who has seen it first hand. I for one am very proud to be one that will be attending UMDNJ because I have witnessed the type of dentist I want to become in their graduates.

 

[CedarZ4]

Cedar, when did you graduate from dental school so I have a sense for what your tuition was?

I'm offering advise because most if not all of the advise on this thread has minimal value. My post isn't aimed at the person who wants a Harvard diploma on the wall because its pretty. My post is to wake all of the pre-dents up. The diploma is a tool. Nothing more. It's use is limited to get the owner a license. Beyond that it's a pretty piece of paper.

If the OP is taking out full loans, my advise is to minimize the loans as much as possible. I work in a high end pros practice. Guess what - none of my patients see me because I'm a Tufts grad. They don't see the owner because he's a BU grad. They don't see the other associates because of their relationships to their various schools. They see us because of the quality of the practice and because they are comfortable here.

****. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter what school you graduated from if you were to run for office, so long as you were never caught inhaling or snorting.

If it's so valuable that someone goes to Tufts, more power them. But let's face some facts. The name doesn't matter for any other reason.

BTW I did my GPR at UMDNJ and I know for a fact that there was no appreciable difference in the quality of the education.

There's a difference between the legitimacy of the game and how the game is played. I think it's all BS, and I agree, I would personally go to the cheaper school. However, why do people still flock to the Ivy's? Harvard. Penn. Columbia? There's a reason for that don't you think? Do you really think they get better training? No. In fact, I think they get less of a clinical training because they are so obsessed with their prestige, name, and therefore are generally more research based. But again, this is two different things.

The game is, the prestige of the school matters in a lot of different form. Legitimacy of it? None, the way I see it. However, you can't automatically shoot down a school just because of a personal belief. Again, some choose prestige due to upbringing, different life goals, etc. Not everyone just wants to come out and be a practicing dentist.

Let's make an analogy. Why did Obama's birth certificate really matter? Does the fact that he is an American born citizen or not make him any better or worse of a president? Will it change what he has done in the past? No, but people still obsessed over it because it's the game. You play it. Does where you graduate from high school, undergrad, or dental school actually measure how good of a dentist you will be? Absolutely not... but guess what? People still kill and make tremendous sacrifices to get into the "best" high school, the "best" undergrad, and the "best" (most prestigious) dental school. If the majority of the people think it matters, then it's what is right, weather or not it is actually legitimate/"right" or not.

It's a screwed up game. And I agree with what you're saying in terms of practicality. But in reality, it's not as simple as "cheapest = go to that school."

In regards to what Msmouth is saying. Again, I completely agree with what you're saying. Most cases, patients won't care where you went to dental school. But not everyone wants to just open up a nice little practice and just see patients. Some people want to do politics, faculty, etc. That is where what your diploma says matters, weather it actually measures your ability to succeed or not (most likely not). THAT, is where prestige matters.

 

[NDPitch]

****. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter what school you graduated from if you were to run for office, so long as you were never caught inhaling or snorting.

If it's so valuable that someone goes to Tufts, more power them. But let's face some facts. The name doesn't matter for any other reason.

BTW I did my GPR at UMDNJ and I know for a fact that there was no appreciable difference in the quality of the education.

Yes! We have another person that can back up my stance! Go the cheapest school that you get into. Every single dentist I've talked to has said that no patients will ever care where you went to school. In all of my hours of shadowing, not a single patient ever asked where the dentist went to school - even when the topic of conversation in the room was "This is NDPitch, he's thinking of going to dental school, do you mind if he watches us today?"

There was maybe a couple of times when patients asked me where I was thinking of applying, and after telling them some schools on my list, their reaction was essentially "Oh, neat!"

Go to the cheapest school, keep your debt low, and thank yourself later when your loan payments kick in. I've said it a bunch of times before, but I really fear for the naive student that graduates and their loan payments kick in with 300 or 400 THOUSAND dollars of student loan debt at anywhere from 6.8 to 7.9 percent interest. And you haven't purchased a home or a practice yet. The people saying these types of things are only trying to help and educate - especially the dentists. They've been there done that, and their advice should be considered highly. Be smart people!!

 

[CedarZ4]

If it's so valuable that someone goes to Tufts, more power them. But let's face some facts. The name doesn't matter for any other reason.

It shouldn't. In theory, it doesn't. In reality, it does. And you can't argue that if two people show up to a meeting or association or what not, and one says, "I went to Harvard medical" and the other said, "I went to my state school," the Harvard alum would get the "oohs" and "ahhs," even if the state-school graduate is a better dentist, and saved himself 100k. However, some people like the "oohs" and "ahhs" they get, and it feeds their ego, and therefore that extra money might be worth it for them. And in the end, it is pretty much what I said earlier. What does the OP value more? Looks like a decent number of people responding to this thread value lowest cost for training. But there are also plenty of people who value that Ivy Diploma and willing to pay the premium.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

this isn't law school or business school. a majority of people could care less about where you went to school. it's all about your clinical chops at the end of the day

 

[NDPitch]

It shouldn't. In theory, it doesn't. In reality, it does. And you can't argue that if two people show up to a meeting or association or what not, and one says, "I went to Harvard medical" and the other said, "I went to my state school," the Harvard alum would get the "oohs" and "ahhs," even if the state-school graduate is a better dentist, and saved himself 100k. However, some people like the "oohs" and "ahhs" they get, and it feeds their ego, and therefore that extra money might be worth it for them. And in the end, it is pretty much what I said earlier. What does the OP value more? Looks like a decent number of people responding to this thread value lowest cost for training. But there are also plenty of people who value that Ivy Diploma and willing to pay the premium.

So is your argument centered on Ivy schools alone? The Ivy schools might give you an edge in landing a specialty - it's small but probably there. Aside from that, it doesn't matter. And if we're only talking about Ivy schools, this thread isn't debating that. Ivy schools removed from the picture for a second, there are many other private schools that are charging ungodly tuition (Tufts, NYU, BU, etc), and the only reason people are going is because they either feel like they don't have a choice (it's the only school they got into and they don't want to apply again), they don't truly understand how much it is going to cost them, or the bill is being paid by mom and dad or the armed forces. This is a generalization of course but I believe it to be mostly true.

In my opinion, the vast majority of dental students end up as GPs, and as such they shouldn't feel like an Ivy school will get you somewhere else in life that a "normal school" couldn't. That's why I foster the mentality of avoiding the private/Ivy schools when possible, because with hard work you can get anywhere you want with your piece of paper from a state school at a much cheaper price. Plenty of people land competitive residencies, go into academics, or earn their PhDs from public universities. So the gunners can ooh and ahh all they want at their piece of paper that says Harvard on it, I'll be oohing and ahhing at the money I saved that I can then invest into my career. 🙂👍

In addition to our student loans, we all will have other bills to pay in our lives, so why make it so much harder on yourself? Ahh well, just my take on things.

 

[Bobby Fischer]

... Why did Obama's birth certificate really matter? Does the fact that he is an American born citizen or not make him any better or worse of a president? Will it change what he has done in the past? No, but people still obsessed over it because it's the game...

past tense? birth certificate issue is over?

 

[Bobby Fischer]

It shouldn't. In theory, it doesn't. In reality, it does. And you can't argue that if two people show up to a meeting or association or what not, and one says, "I went to Harvard medical" and the other said, "I went to my state school," the Harvard alum would get the "oohs" and "ahhs," even if the state-school graduate is a better dentist, and saved himself 100k. However, some people like the "oohs" and "ahhs" they get, and it feeds their ego, and therefore that extra money might be worth it for them. And in the end, it is pretty much what I said earlier. What does the OP value more? Looks like a decent number of people responding to this thread value lowest cost for training. But there are also plenty of people who value that Ivy Diploma and willing to pay the premium.

At least one of the dentists I shadowed spoke about Harvard d school grads one day...she actually stated that she knows some practitioners who will refuse to work with/ use a Harvard d school grad as an associate because of their lack of clinical skills.

 

[Bobby Fischer]

So is your argument centered on Ivy schools alone? The Ivy schools might give you an edge in landing a specialty - it's small but probably there. Aside from that, it doesn't matter. And if we're only talking about Ivy schools, this thread isn't debating that. Ivy schools removed from the picture for a second, there are many other private schools that are charging ungodly tuition (Tufts, NYU, BU, etc), and the only reason people are going is because they either feel like they don't have a choice (it's the only school they got into and they don't want to apply again), they don't truly understand how much it is going to cost them, or the bill is being paid by mom and dad or the armed forces. This is a generalization of course but I believe it to be mostly true.

In my opinion, the vast majority of dental students end up as GPs, and as such they shouldn't feel like an Ivy school will get you somewhere else in life that a "normal school" couldn't. That's why I foster the mentality of avoiding the private/Ivy schools when possible, because with hard work you can get anywhere you want with your piece of paper from a state school at a much cheaper price. Plenty of people land competitive residencies, go into academics, or earn their PhDs from public universities. So the gunners can ooh and ahh all they want at their piece of paper that says Harvard on it, I'll be oohing and ahhing at the money I saved that I can then invest into my career. 🙂👍

In addition to our student loans, we all will have other bills to pay in our lives, so why make it so much harder on yourself? Ahh well, just my take on things.

As long as the choice isn't between a Meharry, Howard, or Puerto Rico and a more reputable school, I think there is a strong argument for making the decision based on cost.

It seems wiser to go to the local middle of the road state school and graduate with ones nose just above financial water as opposed to just submerged beneath it.

My two cents.

 

[NDPitch]

this isn't law school or business school. a majority of people could care less about where you went to school. it's all about your clinical chops at the end of the day

👍

 

[Bis-GMA111]

As long as the choice isn't between a Meharry, Howard, or Puerto Rico and a more reputable school, I think there is a strong argument for making the decision based on cost.

It seems wiser to go to the local middle of the road state school and graduate with ones nose just above financial water as opposed to just submerged beneath it.

My two cents.

👍

 

[chingaling]

So, I am currently on the waitlist at UMDNJ (and would like to go there) and therefore am kinda hesitant to post anything regarding this issue, but nobody is mentioning why some people chose the "better" schools like Tufts, Columbia, etc.- I know people who chose the more expensive Ivy league route not for the pretty diploma or the prestige, but for the opportunities at those schools. If you want to specialize, for example, it isn't such an easy decision. UMDNJ mostly pumps out general dentists. I don't know much about Tufts, but perhaps the OP is interested in specializing, which makes the decision a little harder. The clinical/academic experience may not make or break you if you chose one school over the other, but there is a reason some schools have ridiculously high rates of specialization vs others. Perhaps it has nothing to do with academics and everything to do with networking and connections, but if you want those opportunities enough, you may pass the cheaper tuition to have those opportunities at your fingertips. With all due respect, the dentist from Tufts is a prosthodontist. I wonder if she/he would have been able to pursue this route if she/he just went to the cheapest school. It's something to think about.

 

[Sal427]

I thought that Tufts and UMDNJ had similar specialization rates.

 

[chingaling]

UMDNJ has specialization rates of about 20% -they mentioned that when I interviewed. I don't know about Tufts. I know Columbia has ~95% specialization rate, which is a big difference, and why some people pass the cheaper tuition to go to these types of schools. If Tufts has high specialization rates, and the OP wants options to specialize, that should be taken into consideration.

 

[Dante60]

So, I am currently on the waitlist at UMDNJ (and would like to go there) anonlye am kinda hesitant to post anything regarding this issue, but nobody is mentioning why some people chose the "better" schools like Tufts, Columbia, etc.- I know people who chose the more expensive Ivy league route not for the pretty diploma or the prestige, but for the opportunities at those schools. If you want to specialize, for example, it isn't such an easy decision. UMDNJ mostly pumps out general dentists. I don't know much about Tufts, but perhaps the OP is interested in specializing, which makes the decision a little harder. The clinical/academic experience may not make or break you if you chose one school over the other, but there is a reason some schools have ridiculously high rates of specialization vs others. Perhaps it has nothing to do with academics and everything to do with networking and connections, but if you want those opportunities enough, you may pass the cheaper tuition to have those opportunities at your fingertips. With all due respect, the dentist from Tufts is a prosthodontist. I wonder if she/he would have been able to pursue this route if she/he just went to the cheapest school. It's something to think about.

I don't want to disclose too much about my past on a public board but the facts are as follows:
1. Private pros programs generally lack american grads because of the cost.
2. I graduated in the bottom third of my dental class.
3. I had two years of private practice and GPR experience before attending pros training.
4. Most, if not all, pros programs value private practice experience more heavily than dental training
5. I've interviewed candidates for pros positions (I don't do it any more because I'm a part time instructor) and I can tell you that school name doesn't mean much unless we're talking about schools outside of the US.

Lastly, my choices for dental school were Tufts, BU, and NYU. All cost in the same neighborhood. I only chose Tufts because my cousin went there 10 years earlier.

Don't worry too much about my story. When I graduate average debt was about 200k... Not unmanageable. But I feel north of 300k really makes life difficult. It's a big weight.


In any case, just wanted to inject a little perspective. Good luck.

 

[Dante60]

There's a difference between the legitimacy of the game and how the game is played. I think it's all BS, and I agree, I would personally go to the cheaper school. However, why do people still flock to the Ivy's? Harvard. Penn. Columbia? There's a reason for that don't you think? Do you really think they get better training? No. In fact, I think they get less of a clinical training because they are so obsessed with their prestige, name, and therefore are generally more research based. But again, this is two different things.

The game is, the prestige of the school matters in a lot of different form. Legitimacy of it? None, the way I see it. However, you can't automatically shoot down a school just because of a personal belief. Again, some choose prestige due to upbringing, different life goals, etc. Not everyone just wants to come out and be a practicing dentist.

Let's make an analogy. Why did Obama's birth certificate really matter? Does the fact that he is an American born citizen or not make him any better or worse of a president? Will it change what he has done in the past? No, but people still obsessed over it because it's the game. You play it. Does where you graduate from high school, undergrad, or dental school actually measure how good of a dentist you will be? Absolutely not... but guess what? People still kill and make tremendous sacrifices to get into the "best" high school, the "best" undergrad, and the "best" (most prestigious) dental school. If the majority of the people think it matters, then it's what is right, weather or not it is actually legitimate/"right" or not.

It's a screwed up game. And I agree with what you're saying in terms of practicality. But in reality, it's not as simple as "cheapest = go to that school."

In regards to what Msmouth is saying. Again, I completely agree with what you're saying. Most cases, patients won't care where you went to dental school. But not everyone wants to just open up a nice little practice and just see patients. Some people want to do politics, faculty, etc. That is where what your diploma says matters, weather it actually measures your ability to succeed or not (most likely not). THAT, is where prestige matters.

I've been debating how to respond to this. I'll try to keep it short and sweet. This may apply to Medicine, to Law, to Business, but it really doesn't to dentistry. Harvard Dental school is not any more prestigious than a state school, or a less expensive school to anyone but the guy going to Harvard. If that's what it takes to make someone feel good about themselves, then by all means, go ahead and waste money. That's fine.

None of the opportunities for lecturing that I have today have come because of the prestige of my school. I promise you this. They've all come because of the people I've met since I graduated. I'm involved with my state dental society, not because of the prestige of my school, but because of the people I've met since I've graduated.

In some regards, one of the posters is right about meeting people during your education. That didn't quite work out for me. I met everyone *AFTER* my dental training. Either during my GPR, or during my Pros training. I'd say, it might matter more if you're training to become a specialist where you go for your specialty training. But when you have 400k debt, you're going to really struggle after specialty training and you have close to 700-800k debt. Good luck getting financing for a practice or a home, or whatever.


Also - if someone wants to go into politics, perhaps they should be considering law, not dentistry... ?

 

[Ferneezy]

On politics and dentistry:

Head of the ADA, William Calnon: DDS from SUNY Buffalo

Head of the ADEA, Leo Rouse: DDS from Howard

Prior to Dr. Rouse, the office was held by a hygienist trained in Louisiana. She replaced an Iowa trained dentist as head of the ADEA.

Head of the CDA (largest membership of the ADA), Lindsey Robinson: DDS from USC.

living in DC and having worked in policy and with those that are active on the hill shaping the direction this country goes..."where" you go to school means jack. the people that occupy positions such as the ones above, or others in other sectors and industries, do so because they want to. more importantly, they are appointed these positions because they are competent and likeable.

an ivy can't teach you charisma. you don't make friends by flashing your wallet-sized diploma in social interactions. this is dentistry: dental schools are in place to teach you the principles of dentistry and give you the tools to be licensed. everything else is on you.

 

[Sal427]

UMDNJ has specialization rates of about 20% -they mentioned that when I interviewed. I don't know about Tufts. I know Columbia has ~95% specialization rate, which is a big difference, and why some people pass the cheaper tuition to go to these types of schools. If Tufts has high specialization rates, and the OP wants options to specialize, that should be taken into consideration.

Wow, that's crazy for Columbia! Didn't UMDNJ say though that 100% of the students who wanted to specialize last year got into a specialty program?

I'm interested in pediatrics (who knows if that will change during DS), and I felt that the difference between Tufts and UMDNJ was that at UMDNJ you kinda have to make your own opportunities to get to know the professors in the speciality you want to be in. At Tufts I felt that it would be easier to do this since you can apply for the honors in pediatric class. UMDNJ doesn't have that, so I'll have to reach out to the department and make sure I'm spending extra time volunteering there. I've talked to a pediatric dentist that went to dental school and did his pediatric residency at UMDNJ, and he said he would even stay during breaks to volunteer in the peds clinic.

 

[CedarZ4]

As long as the choice isn't between a Meharry, Howard, or Puerto Rico and a more reputable school, I think there is a strong argument for making the decision based on cost.

It seems wiser to go to the local middle of the road state school and graduate with ones nose just above financial water as opposed to just submerged beneath it.

My two cents.

Where do the new schools fit in? (e.g. Western, Midwestern, Utah, New England, and others I might be missing)

 

[Adamsswag]

I second Cedar's advice. It's really what you value, money or prestige/clinical experience. Tufts probably has a better name, but UMDNJ is a lot cheaper/closer to home. It's what you prefer.

PS: When did you receive your acceptance to UMDNJ? Were you wait listed or what? Thanks!

I was accepted dec 3rd

 

[CedarZ4]

Dante90 - I am going to retract from this debate because it is quickly becoming off topic and a "does prestige matter" thread, which is not what the OP was asking. Ultimately, I agree with you. However, I do have a bad tendency to play devil's advocate... 🙄 In the end though, I still believe that "cheapest school = best choice" is not the answer to the world and not necessarily for everyone, as for some, the benefits may outweigh the cost on a personal level.

 

[Adamsswag]

Thank you all for the advice and your opinions... they all were very helpful... From speaking with many dentists out in the field vs predental students like myself, I have found a drastic difference in their opinions. Predental students bring up prestige, clinical exp, etc... while dentists simply bring up the diff in money and have suggested that I go to the cheapest school. Of course, the decision we have to make is an important one

Thanks once again for all of y'alls opinion

 

[Dante60]

Dante90 - I am going to retract from this debate because it is quickly becoming off topic and a "does prestige matter" thread, which is not what the OP was asking. Ultimately, I agree with you. However, I do have a bad tendency to play devil's advocate... 🙄 In the end though, I still believe that "cheapest school = best choice" is not the answer to the world and not necessarily for everyone, as for some, the benefits may outweigh the cost on a personal level.

I hope you didn't take my arguments personally. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm on the other side, and hindsight is always 20/20. At the post-graduate level, I see the value in certain programs. But for undergraduate dental, I'm just not seeing it. The vast majority of us who are in the trenches now agree. My opinion is that it's more about the individual than the school. The best students are the ones that push themselves to learn more and to really get the most out of the program. The ones who don't take short cuts and who really try to learn. To me, they do the best.

In any case, I'm bowing out too - I've said my piece and ultimately the choice is a personal one and Cedar's points had merit.

If anyone needs advice/help/etc, I answer my PMs as soon as I can.

🙂

 

[ballyhoo]

So it seems like the majority opinion here is go to the cheaper school? Is $33,000 less debt after graduating from dental school a significant difference??

Thanks!

 

[Bobby Fischer]

Where do the new schools fit in? (e.g. Western, Midwestern, Utah, New England, and others I might be missing)

TBD, of course. Likely will be above the bottom 3 that is for sure.

 

[NDPitch]

UMDNJ has specialization rates of about 20% -they mentioned that when I interviewed. I don't know about Tufts. I know Columbia has ~95% specialization rate, which is a big difference, and why some people pass the cheaper tuition to go to these types of schools. If Tufts has high specialization rates, and the OP wants options to specialize, that should be taken into consideration.

Be careful with the specialization rates that schools advertise. I've seen that some of the more "prestigious" schools include AEGD and GPR into their numbers which drastically increase the "specialization rate". I'm not sure if Columbia does this, but 95% seems extremely high.

In regards to the last question, a difference in 33k over four years really turns into more than that because of the very high interest rates. Did you also take into account an average 5% increase in tuition and fees each year? Make sure you examine a true cost difference rather than the one that can be quickly calculated by looking at the total billed costs, there's other hidden costs! 👍

 

[findingnemo13]

And where is NDPitch goign to dental school next year?

 

[gryffindor]

Thank you all for the advice and your opinions... they all were very helpful... From speaking with many dentists out in the field vs predental students like myself, I have found a drastic difference in their opinions. Predental students bring up prestige, clinical exp, etc... while dentists simply bring up the diff in money and have suggested that I go to the cheapest school. Of course, the decision we have to make is an important one

Thanks once again for all of y'alls opinion

I hope you listen to the dentists, including me. Cost absolutely matters. The fewer loans you take out during school, the more options you will have when you graduate. This includes buying a house/car, buying or starting a practice or even pursuing a specialty residency. All of my diplomas are hanging in my waiting room. Patients almost never look at them or ask about them. They choose me because I'm pleasant and I have a 27" iMac on my desk that makes me look cool and paperless (not kidding). They usually have no idea what kind of education is involved in becoming a dentist. Many also don't comprehend what it means that I am a specialist.

All of us from dental school who wanted to specialize eventually did. And that includes those who weren't at the top of our class but wanted to be Oral Surgeons or Orthodontists.

 

[Ferneezy]

five points for gryffindor

 

[Teeths]

I hope you listen to the dentists, including me. Cost absolutely matters. The fewer loans you take out during school, the more options you will have when you graduate. This includes buying a house/car, buying or starting a practice or even pursuing a specialty residency. All of my diplomas are hanging in my waiting room. Patients almost never look at them or ask about them. They choose me because I'm pleasant and I have a 27" iMac on my desk that makes me look cool and paperless (not kidding). They usually have no idea what kind of education is involved in becoming a dentist. Many also don't comprehend what it means that I am a specialist.

All of us from dental school who wanted to specialize eventually did. And that includes those who weren't at the top of our class but wanted to be Oral Surgeons or Orthodontists.

👍

 

[periopocket]

Cedar, when did you graduate from dental school so I have a sense for what your tuition was?

I'm offering advise because most if not all of the advise on this thread has minimal value. My post isn't aimed at the person who wants a Harvard diploma on the wall because its pretty. My post is to wake all of the pre-dents up. The diploma is a tool. Nothing more. It's use is limited to get the owner a license. Beyond that it's a pretty piece of paper.

If the OP is taking out full loans, my advise is to minimize the loans as much as possible. I work in a high end pros practice. Guess what - none of my patients see me because I'm a Tufts grad. They don't see the owner because he's a BU grad. They don't see the other associates because of their relationships to their various schools. They see us because of the quality of the practice and because they are comfortable here.

****. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't matter what school you graduated from if you were to run for office, so long as you were never caught inhaling or snorting.

If it's so valuable that someone goes to Tufts, more power them. But let's face some facts. The name doesn't matter for any other reason.

BTW I did my GPR at UMDNJ and I know for a fact that there was no appreciable difference in the quality of the education.

+1 this guys a genius right here

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

Choice is too easy. Go to UMDNJ and with the ~150k saved, buy an Audi R8.

UMDNJ and Tufts are about the same tier.

 

[UltimateHombre]

Choice is too easy. Go to UMDNJ and with the ~150k saved, buy an Audi R8.

UMDNJ and Tufts are about the same tier.

👍 x 1000

For the love of all that is holy!! Please choose the UMDNJ!! Your future self will hate you for burdening you with an extra 150K of loans, then another 150K of interest!! This is a 300K decision.... Seems like a no brainer.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=970137

 

[Silent Cool]

Not true. At all.

While I do agree name of the school won't really change your ability to specialize, that doesn't mean the name doesn't matter.

As "silly" as you may think, or others, some people do look at prestige of the school. They like to say, "Yeah, I went to Harvard" etc. Not to mention, your degree will follow you for the rest of your life. Even though it's true that going to UMDNJ or Tufts can put you in the same place, making the same amount of money, and just as good of a dentist, it still plays a role. What you hang up for everyone to see, will be UMDNJ, not Tufts. This matters to some people. Matters to some patient. Maybe you want to run for a committee or a high political position, they will, weather you like it or not, look at your dental education institution and that could have an effect. That is why I say, it depends on what is important to you. To you, it's money. Maybe the OP is willing to take the extra loans for a diploma that say Tufts.

Tufts ain't Harvard or Penn or UCLA. It's....Tufts. Fine enough school but nothing special. The schools that will give you an edge are the handful of top tier schools. That's about..6-7. Tufts is not one of those.