Turning 30 and re-evaluating med school aspirations

[PizzaButt]

I am a 30-year-old, married, non-trad potential re-applicant to med school. A brief background: I have a law degree, did a post-bacc 2 years ago (did great in my coursework--took all my pre-med pre-reqs for the first time), worked full-time in an OR after my post-bacc was done, volunteered in hospitals, etc., took the MCAT and applied, but did not get any interviews. [As a side note, I only applied to schools with higher acceptance rates and non-trad friendly schools]. I was extremely crushed by not getting any interviews after working so hard at my post-bacc, working in the field, and being so excited about becoming a doctor. After getting no acceptances, I re-took the MCAT again but it was hardly better than my first attempt (25 and 26, respectively). I decided not to reapply at that time, since I realized that an MCAT of 26 was not going to do anything for my application.

Anyhow, I got discouraged about all this, because I felt that I could not do any better on the MCAT (I took a review course both times) and decided to give up my dreams of medicine. For the last few years I tried some other careers (I didn't want to practice law) and did not find anything that was a good fit. In fact, I was pretty much miserable in every career/job I tried, including law.

This past year I've done a lot of soul-searching. I realized that at 30, I'm really not where I thought I'd be career-wise. For all practical purposes, I haven't had a career at all (at least any that have been a good fit for me). At the same time, I feel this enormous pressure to hurry up and choose a career--whether that be medicine or another career--because I've been dilly dallying and soul-searching for a long time without making any progress. My husband and I recently moved to a new city. I temped and worked with career counselors and really tried to figure out what I wanted and where I could see myself. My thoughts are now turning to starting a family, and I'm feeling far removed from my pre-med post-bacc days, even though that was really only 3 years ago. The problem, though, is that medicine is still the only career I can see myself in. I think about how much I want to be a doctor nearly every day. The only job I've ever held that I loved was my year working in the operating room at a major hospital. But I'm starting to wonder whether or not I should just forget about medicine and focus on a career that requires a lot less committment.

I'm having a really hard time trying to decide whether to dust off the old MCAT books and study for the MCAT a third time and apply this June for fall '08. Turning 30 has been a very soul-searching time, but I haven't really emerged any clearer about whether or not I should re-apply to med schools. I love many things about medicine, but at the same time I am very clear about its many negatives. The biggest negative, in my mind, is that I'm not sure I want to spend my 30's studying that hard and working that hard while at the same time starting a family.

I have been actively exploring other healthcare careers, because the one thing I did discover in all this soul-searching is that healthcare is my passion and that I for sure want to have a healthcare-related career. Other careers I'm currently exploring include a PhD in clinical psychology, a master's in marriage and family therapy, physical therapy, speech pathology, and dentistry. I'm currently working in medical research as well, because I thought it would be helpful to get back into the field as I prepare to make my next career decision (which will be my third career change). Besides knowing that I for sure want a career in healthcare, I am also looking for a career with good job stability, that's in demand, and that pays well. I am very interested in clinical psychology and counseling/therapy careers, but the fact that they are not as much in demand as, say, dentists or doctors, and the fact that the field pays so poorly, bothers me. Although many people on this board feel otherwise, salary is a very important consideration when you're investing more years and money in school, especially when you already have loans from your first grad program plus your spouse's loans to pay off.

I wondered if anyone who is turning 30 or around that age has also experienced this kind of intense soul-searching and doubt, and what decision they ultimately made. I feel very out-of-the-loop from my pre-med post-bacc days. I am really torn about whether or not to re-apply to med school (though without re-taking the MCAT I probably wouldn't get any interviews again)--or whether or not I should just give up my dreams of medicine. My family urges me to be a housewife and give up my dreams of having a career; they feel like at this age I should be focusing on starting a family and homemaking--not on starting on a rigourous career path from scratch at age 30. I don't agree with their views whatsoever, but besides my husband, I don't have any support system in making this decision.

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[BitingPlates]

Turning 30 this October! If something is in your heart, do it because if you don't it will always haunt you for the rest of your life. I sacrificed much making this decision, but the sacrifice is worth it to me and there is no way in hell I would do this for the money. I wish you luck with whatever decision you make, don't do anything that you will kick yourself in the butt later on though.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Your MCAT is not great, as you know, but it's not so low that it (alone) would prevent you from getting a single interview, especially if you applied early and broadly. I wonder if there is something in your PS or LORs that is in some way damaging your application? Seriously, one weak LOR can sink you. Or a PS that doesn't tell a compelling story about why you should be in medicine. Look hard at these things before you retake the MCAT.

As far as applying, it sounds like your mind is already made up. You have reached a point of clarity about what you want (many people never get that far). Now it's up to you to do what it takes to make it happen.

 

[PizzaButt]

Your MCAT is not great, as you know, but it's not so low that it (alone) would prevent you from getting a single interview, especially if you applied early and broadly. I wonder if there is something in your PS or LORs that is in some way damaging your application? Seriously, one weak LOR can sink you. Or a PS that doesn't tell a compelling story about why you should be in medicine. Look hard at these things before you retake the MCAT.

As far as applying, it sounds like your mind is already made up. You have reached a point of clarity about what you want (many people never get that far). Now it's up to you to do what it takes to make it happen.

No, my mind isn't made up at all. I have no idea whether or not to re-apply or to just forget about it and pursue some other career (that would be settling in my mind). I've worked with several career counselors this year and haven't been able to gain any additional clarity. It's just that medicine is such a long, hard path. I have the passion for it (otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do a post-bacc and re-take the MCAT twice, all after getting a law degree), and I loved working in the OR, (and love being back in medical research now), but I just don't know what to do.

As for why I didn't get any interviews.....I'm really not sure. My personal statement was great, according to my pre-med advisors. I can't remember who I asked for my LORs. The low MCAT score, of course, was probably the main factor. Also, I took the August MCAT, so although I submitted my AMCAS as soon as possible (in June) it probably wasn't looked at by schools until October.

 

[MSTPbound]

I am... married... I have a law degree, did a post-bacc 2 years ago (did great in my coursework...)

Sounds to me like you know a thing or two about what it takes to be successful... you just need to turn that potential towards the MCAT.

To be clear, I'm not claiming that this is the only thing keeping you out of med school, but if it is, you can master it. If med school is where you belong, just cut off all other possibility (i.e. make a de-cision), and commit yourself - 3rd time's a charm!

Even when you go through a review course, there are DOZENS of possible wrong turns that can compromise your performance. Before diving into your studies, try to make some distinctions that would necessarily alter your approach (since your original plan is obviously not working).

What were your scores on the MCAT, by section?

 

[PizzaButt]

My MCAT sections were:

V 10
BS 9
PS 7

Basically I'm wondering if anyone has done the soul-searching around age 30, taking into account where they thought they'd be and where they want to be, combined with a passion and love for medicine, but a clear awareness of medicine's many negatives and drawbacks. I think 30 is a time when you start to question what is really important to you. I'm in the midst of this and not sure what to do re: medicine. I know that should I decide to re-apply I'll need to have a completely different strategy for the MCAT. But my question is did anyone feel that turning 30 and the soul-searching changed their perspective on a career in medicine?

 

[st0w]

If medicine is what you truly want, then go for it. Don't listen to family who tell you you're too old. Families mean well, but they usually don't know the intricacies of the med school applications process.

You know that your MCAT might be hurting you, so plan your application carefully. Apply broadly and early. Very early. Subsequently, you need to have your MCAT scores already released by June if you want to be truly competitive. As much as you might hate to hear this, if you aren't fully prepared to take the MCAT now, which it sounds like you aren't, then it is to your advantage to spend the summer studying so that you can kill the MCAT later this year. Make sure you've got continuing clinical/volunteeer experience, and apply during the next cycle. Waiting is painful, but it's a lot less painful than applying too late this cycle and not getting in anywhere.

Are you applying to DO and MD programs, or just MD?

With that said, it doesn't necessarily have to be an MD/DO program. You mention a few times how happy you were working in the OR. This should tell you something. If you do some soul-searching and don't feel you're up to the task of medical school, consider other options. Nurses and PAs make good salaries. They might not be surgeon salaries, but the jobs are far more family-friendly and allow for much closer patient interaction. Might not be up your alley, but there are plenty of other options.

 

[MSTPbound]

My MCAT sections were:

V 10
BS 9
PS 7

Basically I'm wondering if anyone has done the soul-searching around age 30, taking into account where they thought they'd be and where they want to be, combined with a passion and love for medicine, but a clear awareness of medicine's many negatives and drawbacks. I think 30 is a time when you start to question what is really important to you. I'm in the midst of this and not sure what to do re: medicine. I know that should I decide to re-apply I'll need to have a completely different strategy for the MCAT. But my question is did anyone feel that turning 30 and the soul-searching changed their perspective on a career in medicine?

Listen... take all of this with a few grains of salt because I'm just a passionate 26-year-old non-trad pre-med... whose mother is in medical school right now.

If encouragement/support is what you're looking for, I don't doubt you'll find it - SDN is great for that! But if you are looking for some one to nudge you one way or the other about going to medical school, I don't think anyone who has your best interest in mind would advise you either way. I think potentially this entire forum is full of people who have been in your shoes in one way or another, whether age 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, etc... life continues. I think what they have all realized is that we're going to be *** years old anyway... the question is will we be more fulfilled practicing medicine at the age of ***, or not?

Are there going to be hurdles? OF COURSE. Are you, a 30-year old woman, going to face additional drawbacks, such as stresses on family, relationship, lifestyle, etc., going this route? ABSOLUTELY!

Would anyone fault you for deciding NOT to go this route? I can't imagine so. It's friggin' hard... almost impossible!

At this juncture in your life then, is it worth the struggle? You are the only one who can answer that. But I guarantee that if you do nice long search through the archives of this network, you'll come across many who have been in your shoes, and worse... but pulled through, and knew at the end that it was the best decision they'd ever made.

Basically I'm wondering if anyone has done the soul-searching around age 30, taking into account where they thought they'd be and where they want to be, combined with a passion and love for medicine, but a clear awareness of medicine's many negatives and drawbacks.

I think this can double as a "definition" of the "Non-traditional Students" forum... just broaden the "30" to a range with 30 as the median, or mean.

I think 30 is a time when you start to question what is really important to you.

Yes it is. So should be every year before 30. So should be every year thereafter.

Hope there's something useful in my babble. If not, just ignore.

Now, regarding your MCAT score... It is again, my opinion, that you have the "best possible weak area". In other words, I think PS is the most straight-forward section to make progress in... much more so than the other two sections. Your legal acumen probably serves you well in VR... and with a 9 in Bio Sci, I bet you could easily bump that up at least a point. Chem and Physics are the topics that are most "easily" mastered... If you did a huge overhaul over three months, I bet you could add 4-5 points or more on that PS score. If you decide to go for it, drop by and visit the MCAT discussions forum... there are quite a few "heavy hitters" who tend be generous with their insight over there.

Good Luck!!!!!!!!!

 

[PizzaButt]

At this juncture in your life then, is it worth the struggle? You are the only one who can answer that.

This is what I simply cannot decide--is it worth the struggle. When others have pondered this question, what kinds of things have you weighed, in terms of the pros and cons of pursuing medicine? Right now, my pro and con list is nearly 50-50, and thus the reason why I have been stuck in a state of stagnation. I'd like to hear about what others think in terms of whether or not it's worth the struggle.

I know that there are far easier paths I could take, and still be in healthcare. Such as PA, NP, etc. But I really want to be a doctor. This is what I've been struggling with.

 

[spicedmanna]

No, my mind isn't made up at all. I have no idea whether or not to re-apply or to just forget about it and pursue some other career (that would be settling in my mind). I've worked with several career counselors this year and haven't been able to gain any additional clarity. It's just that medicine is such a long, hard path. I have the passion for it (otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do a post-bacc and re-take the MCAT twice, all after getting a law degree), and I loved working in the OR, (and love being back in medical research now), but I just don't know what to do.

Someone once put it to me like this: you don't have to wake up to your parents/siblings each day forever, you leave home someday, but you do have to wake up to yourself and to your choices for the rest of your life.

Forget about what everybody else wants for you, or what they value; those things are completely irrelevant and unimportant factors in your choice. What is important is what you, PizzaButt, think would bring you the most joy; set up it so that you can do that more. Forget about the length of the path involved and how hard it seems; these really shouldn't be the deciding factors for you. They are not that important, if you are following the path that has heart for you. The most difficult and arduous path is the one where you sell your soul for a booby-prize. While the path with heart isn't without hardship, sometimes they can be significant like in the case of medical school, your passion, even in the darkest moment, will see you through it. If you have a passion for medicine and the means to accomplish the goal, then that's worth pursuing and putting everything on the line for, in my opinion. That's what I did. I'm 34 and starting medical school this Fall. Commit fully to your heart's desire, let go of the things/habits that keep you from achieving your dream and that sabotage you, be completely open to learning/feedback, and engage your mind to show you how to do it all. The mind is good for certain things, such as the MCAT, but I think the heart is a much better chooser in matters that are important to life.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

 

[StringerBell]

Basically I'm wondering if anyone has done the soul-searching around age 30, taking into account where they thought they'd be and where they want to be, combined with a passion and love for medicine, but a clear awareness of medicine's many negatives and drawbacks.

I turned 30 last September, in the middle of my third application cycle.
I applied when I was 21 and 22, and was having no success, due in large part to my poor undergraduate GPA. I did a Master's in Bio, then I worked in an Osteopathic clinic, and later in a large hospital, as a cardiology tech. I was moderately happy, but getting less and less so, because I knew I was capable of being so much more.

At 29, I decided to take the plunge again. I quit my job, and took the Princeton Review, brought my MCAT from a 28 to a 34. I applied to both allopathic and osteopathic programs this year, and quite broadly. I received a lot of rejections, but I am now on 1 MD waitlist, 2 DO waitlists, and have been accepted to a DO school. It's a rough path, and much of it is yet to play out, but I do know that I am on the right track again. This is what I have always wanted, although I took the long path to get there. Good luck, because if it's what you really want, you can do it.

 

[spicedmanna]

This is what I simply cannot decide--is it worth the struggle. When others have pondered this question, what kinds of things have you weighed, in terms of the pros and cons of pursuing medicine? Right now, my pro and con list is nearly 50-50, and thus the reason why I have been stuck in a state of stagnation. I'd like to hear about what others think in terms of whether or not it's worth the struggle.

I know that there are far easier paths I could take, and still be in healthcare. Such as PA, NP, etc. But I really want to be a doctor. This is what I've been struggling with.

I don't use the pro/con method, usually; it doesn't work for me in making the really important choices in my life and just ends up making me dizzy. Anyway, it turned out to be a pretty easy choice for me at the end. I chose to go for what would bring me greater aliveness and joy rather than comfortable creative stagnation and familiar mediocrity. I think it was much the same choice-point that you face right now, and it was quite literally a no-brainer for me. The mind doesn't really understand happiness; that's the domain of the heart.

For you, there is actually no real struggle. It's an imagined struggle. You already know that you want to become a doctor. The problem is that you are fighting with yourself; you are fighting with the choice your heart has already made. Trust in yourself; the heartfelt choice isn't always the easiest or most logical one, but it is the one that will likely bring you happiness. Isn't your happiness worth risking it all for?

Good luck and have heart.

 

[UVABranch]

I can totally empathize with you! (and you're long winded like me ) I'm 28, turning 29 at the end of the year and I too am facing the same decisions you are grappling with. I have a sub par GPA and MCAT and I'm about to finish my MPH with a good GPA. And I'll likely be taking the MCAT again this summer. I haven't been accepted this cycle and every time I think about going though the process again I want to cry. I however, do not have a husband (just my epileptic Yorkshire Terrier), nor boyfriend, etc…My sister's an attorney and all my friends have graduated from school (99% of them from law school), or are about to graduate this year. For the first 4 years after I graduated I worked in health care doing research and now I work in IT at my school to help pay for tuition (along w/ my other 2 jobs). Each year I have to decide if it's worth "one more year" of my life. There's a part of me that wants to be practical thinking: well I'm getting older and want to have a family eventually, and if so, how will I fit in kids/school and residency…let alone marriage . I have loans and no real career and everyone around me seems to be making something of themselves while I've been in a holding pattern since graduation. Then there's my heart. I can only equate it to being in love…you just know. I have a feeling in my heart/gut that I just can't get rid of. And what scares me the most is waking up when I'm 40 or 50 or 70 and thinking that I should have tried just one more time. I mean how many people have the chance to really live out their dream? Seriously. The VAST majority of us wouldn't be here if we were not passionate about medicine. There are plenty of careers out there that will allow us to "help people" but there is something pulling us into this path. My family still weighs in on my decisions…my father flip flops as he just wants me to be happy and thinks maybe I need to move on. My mom because she wants to support me as best she can will never tell me to not pursue my dream, and thinks I just need a little more time to reach my goal, my sister is more of a realist like my father and knows I can get in, just thinks I need to give a little more. All good advise, and as much as I wish one of them had the answer, as someone else said I am the only one who will have to live with my decisions. As a part of a family (husband kids etc,) it might be more of a group decision, but if everyone will support whatever you choose then again it's up to you.

You are not alone, at some point all of us have thought "am I making the right decision?" I think I could choose a different profession and be quite successful…but it (at this point) wouldn't be my passion. That's my driving force for better or for worse. Evaluation, and more specifically self evaluation is a wonderful thing. As someone told me, its one of the most important skills you will use as a physician. And when applying to medical school, ADCOMs want to see that you can take a look at what your application is missing, properly evaluate it, and make the necessary adjustments. This is not a small endeavor and definitely worth thought at any age. It's a huge time and financial commitment that should not be taken lightly. To add some additional perspective…my mother is a homemaker, and as her child it was a wonderful thing to have her there while growing up. But I don't think I would have been worse off had she worked the whole time. However, before she had children, she worked with Oscar De la Renta…before he was, well who he is. If she had chosen that path I likely would not be here, and there's not telling where she would be. I'm sure there's a part of her that will always wonder what could have been, but in the end she's happy with her life, and that was like 35 years ago…not exactly 2007. My family has always told me I can be anything I put my mind to, and supportive of my decisions; for that I love them. Even if that includes a being a Dr. Mom at some point My cousin is successful, has 3 children, won an Emmy last year and had her first kid in her mid 30s…so I know it can be done. I know when my father, for example, thinks that I might need to move on it's not because he doesn't want me to live my dream, but to give me the chance to fulfill other drams such as a husband and family. I believe I can do both, for now at least…and in some time if necessary I will reevaluate.

There are some quotes I've heard over the years that make me think about my life and my choices and my future.

"Get busy livin' or get busy dyin' "(shawshank redemption)

"I find I'm so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it the excitement only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend, and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope- "Red" (Morgan Freeman-shawshank redemption) How I feel now, and know I'll feel once I'm accepted

"Later that day I got to thinking about relationships. There are those that open you up to something new and exotic, those that are old and familiar, those that bring up lots of questions, those that bring you somewhere unexpected, those that bring you far from where you started, and those that bring you back. But the most exciting, challenging and significant relationship of all is the one you have with yourself. And if you can find someone to love the you you love, well, that's just fabulous." -Carrie SATC (I know girly)

After all of this typing, to qualify what I just said…this could simply be what I have convinced myself of to make dealing with the process easier…but either way it does help me sleep at night Good luck!

 

[PizzaButt]

Isn't your happiness worth risking it all for?

This is what I just can't decide. Pursuing med school again would involve: potentiall wasting more years while I wait more application cycles, forcing my husband to pack up and move, forcing my husband to put his life on hold while I study non-stop for at least 8 years, and the added stress of juggling such a time-consuming and stressful career with starting a family. These are all enormous cons.

But at the same time, since I received my rejections back when I applied (2 years ago), not a day goes by that I don't think about (and yearn to be) a doctor. But is there a time when a person should say, well, I tried my best (did well in a post-bacc), applied, and didn't get in and now it's time to start a career so I'll settle for what in my mind is second best--a career in clinical psychology?

I can't decide when it's time to say, ok, I'll settle. I'll settle because it's an easier path, because I don't want to spend my 30's always studying, always tired, always struggling, even though I want to be a doctor so badly.

I will say, though, that I am very sad that I did not receive any interviews in my med school application process, and I regret very much not being in med school now. If I don't get into med school and become a doctor, I will always have this huge regret.

But at the same time, what is worse--all the negatives that are in medicine (and there are plenty of them)--or living with regret on a daily basis? Does the answer to this question depend on why you have this regret?

Thanks for all your responses.

 

[spicedmanna]

But at the same time, what is worse--all the negatives that are in medicine (and there are plenty of them)--or living with regret on a daily basis? Does the answer to this question depend on why you have this regret?

Clearly, the worse choice for me would be to live with regret on a daily basis, because I did choose to put everything at risk for a shot at becoming a doctor. I think life is too short to do otherwise. I'm committed to my happiness, and I'd rather fail while expanding into my magnificence than stand in the comfort of known mediocrity. To settle is to say that I am not magnificent, which would be a great lie--the kind that eats away at my soul and overall happiness. I'm willing to sacrifice the known and the comfortable for greater aliveness. We have but one life, and I believe in using myself to the fullest. When I lay dying at some ripe old age, I want to know that I took all the worthwhile chances and that I went for all my deathbed goals full-out. That's a life well-lived, in my opinion.

Regret is regret to your body, it doesn't matter what your mind makes of it, or how you end up justifying it to yourself. Regret is mostly unfelt sadness and loss, in my opinion. However you make sense of it, your body reacts to it the same. Feel all of your feelings now; don't wait. Love yourself exactly as you are right now and every choice you've made.

How do you know when to give up? In my experience it is when something else even better comes along that you hadn't considered until now and/or when after feeling all of your feelings, your body fully recognizes it's time to move on. When you check in, you'll get a full body "yes" to something else and to fully letting go. It's a clear, whole-body natural sense of release, in my experience.

If you continue to have a niggle about something, then it would be clear that you haven't let go yet. That is the sense I get from you, because you actually still want to become a doctor; it's crystal clear to your heart, despite your logical processes. Yes, if you decide on becoming a doctor now, it's going to be hard work and you will likely need to make sacrifices, but almost everything worth having has these same issues, in my opinion. Keep in mind also that there are multiple paths to becoming a physician. If you make the choice to pursue medicine now, you could lose big, of course, but if you absolutely gave it your all and truly did everything you could to actualize it, then you'll likely have no regrets to talk about, after you felt your feelings and moved on. On the other hand, if you choose to settle before that time, you'll likely wake up in regret, knowing you didn't fully go for your magnificence, that you didn't step up to the plate when you had a chance. I think that you need to decide what is more important to you, your greater happiness and magnificence, or being comfortable and safe right now, living with the knowledge that you perhaps let go of your dream before it was time.

The ball is in your court. Whatever you choose, make sure to choose deliberately and not by default. I wish you lots of love and luck.

 

[Law2Doc]

[As a side note, I only applied to schools with higher acceptance rates and non-trad friendly schools].

...

I'm having a really hard time trying to decide whether to dust off the old MCAT books and study for the MCAT a third time and apply this June for fall '08. ...

Two suggestions. First ALL schools are non-trad friendly if your stats are good. By applying only to the same handful of nontrad friendly schools that lots of nontrads apply to, you are putting yourself in direct competition with all those 30 year olds with 30+ scores. Better to apply widely and broadly. Second, DO NOT take the MCAT again until you are scoring 30+ on several consecutive full length practice exams. So you can pick up your books and study, but if you are not hitting the target by June, do not take it in June. You already pulled the trigger before your shot was lined up twice, don't do it again.

It seems likely your MCAT score was too low for the schools you looked at. Without a very friendly state school, contrary to what Tired Pigeon suggested, you will have difficulty getting interviews with a 26 particularly with a 7 in one section. The odds drop off pretty precipitously when you go below the 27-28 range for most places, which is why the average for matriculants is 30.

Also, with a law degree, you sometimes have to do a better job of explaining why medicine in your essays -- schools shy away from folks who seem to be collecting professional degrees or otherwise confused as to their ultimate direction. It may be you didn't explain yourself convincingly last go around. Good luck.

 

[spicedmanna]

It seems likely your MCAT score was too low for the schools you looked at. Without a very friendly state school, contrary to what Tired Pigeon suggested, you will have difficulty getting interviews with a 26 particularly with a 7 in one section. The odds drop off pretty precipitously when you go below the 27-28 range for most places, which is why the average for matriculants is 30.

I agree; your MCAT score really hurt you, especially if you only applied to allopathic schools. My MCAT score was 28 and I had a 7 on one of my sections, too (PS). I didn't get any allopathic interviews (100% rejection, post-secondary), but I also applied late (August MCAT) and not nearly broadly enough. On the other hand, I pretty much gave up on the allopathic path this cycle only to go down a path that actually fit me even better, much to my delight. I did very well applying to osteopathic medical schools, even very late in the application cycle (November), receiving 3 interviews, of which I attended two, and received one acceptance to a school I know I am going to be very happy attending. I got pretty lucky (and I interviewed well, too, I believe ).

My recommendation is similar to L2D's. If you are going to reapply to allopathic schools, I'd suggest retaking your MCAT, but not until you are scoring comfortably 30+ on your practice MCAT exams. You can actually be successful in the osteopathic medical school application process with lower numbers, since their averages tend to be lower, so keep that in mind. I think if I applied to osteopathic schools earlier in the application cycle, I would have gotten even more interviews.

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

Whats up with the big surge of movement of lawyers to medicine, is law that aweful financially or workwise that medicine is the right fit to break into because it fill the ego of transitioning into a higher career or is it a true passion of everyone. Why did you go to law school, what makes it so horrible now? Where did you go to law school and what did you major in for undergrad? For you it is as simple as killing the MCAT if your GPA is decent, whats your stats? Try taking Kaplan or a prep course, and make sure your in love with medicine, otherwise consider shorter, less expensive (timewise and pocketwise). If it is about the title and prestige, you can make more in dentistry in a way shorter amount of time, with more potential income and ALOT Of free time for family.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

While there is uncertainty in your actual words, the tone of your posts suggests otherwise. If you are hesitant because of the time it will take, keep in mind that 10 years from now ... you'll be 10 years older, whether you pursued your dream or not.

 

[spicedmanna]

While there is uncertainty in your actual words, the tone of your posts suggests otherwise. If you are hesitant because of the time it will take, keep in mind that 10 years from now ... you'll be 10 years older, whether you pursued your dream or not.

Agreed; this was a similar point I was attempting to make as well, but I think you said it more eloquently, and certainly in fewer words.

 

[Law2Doc]

Whats up with the big surge of movement of lawyers to medicine, is law that aweful financially ...

Actually the opposite --many lawyers making the transition are taking a big paycut, as interviewers are quick to point out to them. Everyone decides what path is right for them. For some it is after having done a different career. Doesn't mean the initial career was particularly bad.

 

[likwidscorpion]

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm 28 turning 29 and have always wanted to become a physician. Graduated from a UC around 2002 mediocre 3.1 gpa and a 22 MCAT and did not apply to any med school. At that point, I just retired myself from following my dream. I then got an MPH and have not been using this degree since I am a Regional Revenue/Billing Manager. The last few months, I realized that my life will probably waste away sitting in front of a computer all day and I will be miserable for the rest of my life if I don't even try to apply to med school. So, I hurriedly applied to a Caribbean school and waiting to see if I get in for this Fall 07. I've also dusted away my old MCAT books from 2001!! to take it in August (I didn't even know that it will be computerized this time around &#61514. I’m also applying to post-bacs to hopefully boost my GPA. I was so opposed to applying to carib school when I was an undergrad that I didn’t even consider it. Now, I’m kicking myself cause I should have done it sooner since now I know at least one person who’s about to finish their residency in Fam Med at UCSF/Fresno and they went to a carib school. My thing is you should consider Carib school if your attempts at gaining admissions to a US school had been futile.

 

[PizzaButt]

While there is uncertainty in your actual words, the tone of your posts suggests otherwise. If you are hesitant because of the time it will take, keep in mind that 10 years from now ... you'll be 10 years older, whether you pursued your dream or not.

Yes, but there are so many things in those 10 years that I will have to miss out on if I pursue such a difficult path that is med school and residency.....that is one of the big dilemmas for me. The things that I would be missing out on include: time with my husband, time with our future children, time for personal interests and hobbies, time for friends, time for relaxing, etc.

My love for medicine is large, and not a day goes by that I don't yearn to be a doctor, but I'm concerned that I want medicine for the "wrong" reasons. I'm not sure how to reconcile this. I'm just not sure if medicine is worth it, and I'm not sure what else I can do to determine this. I've worked in the field for a year (paid, full-time), I've shadowed, volunteered at a variety of medical settings, informational interviewed, etc. I've collected basically as much info as I can about the medical path. But I still can't make a decision.

I briefly considered the Caribbean but then decided that I cannot ask my husband to uproot his business and move to the Caribbean for med school. Maybe I just don't want it enough.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Yes, life is full of tradeoffs, and doing anything other than what you're doing now will require you to make these tradeoffs. If you're satisfied with the status quo, then by all means stick with what you've got. Medicine means a lot of sacrifices. I imagine it would totally suck having to make those sacrifices and not really being into it.

I have heard a bit of advice that may apply to you: if you can picture yourself happily doing anything other than medicine, then don't go to med school. But if medicine is really the only thing you have passion for, then quit wasting time & just get after it.

 

[Quix]

It sounds to me like you need a dramatic renewal of purpose. I get this same feeling every now and again. Usually when I consider my current finances.

 

[spicedmanna]

My love for medicine is large, and not a day goes by that I don't yearn to be a doctor, but I'm concerned that I want medicine for the "wrong" reasons. I'm not sure how to reconcile this. I'm just not sure if medicine is worth it, and I'm not sure what else I can do to determine this.

You can't, and there is no real way to know whether it was worth it until you're basically done. The only thing you can do is to be as informed as you possibly can and trust that each step is a step closer to what you really want. There are no guarantees in life and no right or wrong reasons, just choices you make and their consequences. You take big risks, you often get big rewards, but you could also fail big. That's the game of life; you can't stay in limbo forever, it's too energetically costly. As an old friend used to challenge me, "pick one."

Good luck!

I briefly considered the Caribbean but then decided that I cannot ask my husband to uproot his business and move to the Caribbean for med school.

I'm going to call BS on that one. You can ask your hubby anything; you just need to trust that he'll make a choice that he feels good about. It's not up to you, and you can't really make his choice for him. You can, however, choose what YOU want.

 

[CremasterFlash]

"Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."

-Amelia Earhart

 

[sehnsucht]

i am turning 30 this year as well and the way i see things, if you want to be an MD badly enough you will find a reason to pursue the goal no matter what. in my case, i know that i wouldn't be content doing anything else for my profession. the challenges i have faced thus far have driven me to work harder in school to achieve my goal of being admitted to medical school. my hardships have also affirmed my desire to dedicate my life to medicine when I thought I couldn't cut it anymore.

 

[nursejessy]

Did you try applying for any DO schools?

 

[MJB]

Did you try applying for any DO schools?

You took my question.

And Law2, I'd like to know where I can go through 3 years of law school and come out making 150K +

 

[anotherlaw2doc]

The starting salary at big New York, DC law firms is $160,000, before bonuses. If you work like a dog and bill a lot of hours w/ bonus, if can be over $200K. Don't get me started on the soul sucking nature of big law firm jobs. Did it for three years and hated it.

 

[MJB]

The starting salary at big New York, DC law firms is $160,000, before bonuses. If you work like a dog and bill a lot of hours w/ bonus, if can be over $200K. Don't get me started on the soul sucking nature of big law firm jobs. Did it for three years and hated it.

Never sounded too fun to me. I imagine those jobs are fairly hard to come by. Seems I rarely hear of new lawdogs around here (KC) making anywhere near 6 figures right out of school (guaranteed money, etc.). That's why I ask.

7 or 8 guys out of my pledge class that graduated together (17 or 18 total) went into law.

One is now in Vet school after going to ND Law and then working in Philly for a couple years.

 

[notgettingin]

Lucky for you your lowest section was PS. In my opinion, this is the easiest section to pull up your score. Just do lots of practice questions, and really study the material and concepts. That is if you decide you want to do medicine.

My MCAT sections were:

V 10
BS 9
PS 7

Basically I'm wondering if anyone has done the soul-searching around age 30, taking into account where they thought they'd be and where they want to be, combined with a passion and love for medicine, but a clear awareness of medicine's many negatives and drawbacks. I think 30 is a time when you start to question what is really important to you. I'm in the midst of this and not sure what to do re: medicine. I know that should I decide to re-apply I'll need to have a completely different strategy for the MCAT. But my question is did anyone feel that turning 30 and the soul-searching changed their perspective on a career in medicine?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Never sounded too fun to me. I imagine those jobs are fairly hard to come by. Seems I rarely hear of new lawdogs around here (KC) making anywhere near 6 figures right out of school (guaranteed money, etc.). That's why I ask.

7 or 8 guys out of my pledge class that graduated together (17 or 18 total) went into law.

One is now in Vet school after going to ND Law and then working in Philly for a couple years.

I'm sure (actually I'm positive) that the big law firms in KC will pay six figures to their new associates. However, you have to go to a top school to get a job there or you need to be law review at a place like KU. Yeah, most new law grads don't make that type of money -- large law firms are pretty elitist in their hiring strategies.

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

The starting salary at big New York, DC law firms is $160,000, before bonuses. If you work like a dog and bill a lot of hours w/ bonus, if can be over $200K. Don't get me started on the soul sucking nature of big law firm jobs. Did it for three years and hated it.

What law school did you graduate from, where did you work and how much did you make? And LoL, its soul sucking everywhere, wait until you experience the medical bureaucracy, the HMO and PI attorney blood sucking later on in life. lol. It is the same games just a different field.

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

Never sounded too fun to me. I imagine those jobs are fairly hard to come by. Seems I rarely hear of new lawdogs around here (KC) making anywhere near 6 figures right out of school (guaranteed money, etc.). That's why I ask.

7 or 8 guys out of my pledge class that graduated together (17 or 18 total) went into law.

One is now in Vet school after going to ND Law and then working in Philly for a couple years.

He can protect himself against Doggy Malpractice suits j/k

 

[Doctor Bagel]

What law school did you graduate from, where did you work and how much did you make? And LoL, its soul sucking everywhere, wait until you experience the medical bureaucracy, the HMO and PI attorney blood sucking later on in life. lol. It is the same games just a different field.

And you speak from personal experience?

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

And you speak from personal experience?

I wish i did have a DVM/JD or NOT than i would have wasted all my life and money for two totally unlrelated professions, wait.... that sounds like you

 

[blues91776]

sounds like the MCAT course didnt help you much and for a lot of people the courses don't. I suggest trying something else, something more. Private MCAT tutor? Find a different route/strategy to approaching the MCATs? I'm positive that it's possible for you to get a high 20s or low 30s, you just have to find the right way to go about it.

best wishes

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm positive that it's possible for you to get a high 20s or low 30s, you just have to find the right way to go about it.

I would agree with this. Since you are scoring mid 20s on multiple tests, it's not that much of a stretch to think that with proper preparation and not taking the test until you are ready, you should be able to up it a few points. Hopefully that will make the difference if you apply widely enough.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I wish i did have a DVM/JD or NOT than i would have wasted all my life and money for two totally unlrelated professions, wait.... that sounds like you

oops, duplicate

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I wish i did have a DVM/JD or NOT than i would have wasted all my life and money for two totally unlrelated professions, wait.... that sounds like you

I guess that beats having no degrees. Mainly, I'm just saying that maybe you shouldn't talk like you're an expert on having/getting a JD or being a lawyer.

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

I guess that beats having no degrees. Mainly, I'm just saying that maybe you shouldn't talk like you're an expert on having/getting a JD or being a lawyer.

I am no expert in anything nor did i claim myself as one. But to address this quote, no I rather have no degree, than have a useless one I wont use and have invested 3 years of my life and financial debt to just collect degrees i wont use in the long run, who cant be a degree collecter if they want. I rather have a degree I am sure I will use then go get a JD to feel like I am smart just to not use it and be depressed and miserable for the years I went thru it and realized it after it is too later, waste of time, money, and sanity...

 

[Law2Doc]

I am no expert in anything nor did i claim myself as one. But to address this quote, no I rather have no degree, than have a useless one I wont use and have invested 3 years of my life and financial debt to just collect degrees i wont use in the long run, who cant be a degree collecter if they want. I rather have a degree I am sure I will use then go get a JD to feel like I am smart just to not use it and be depressed and miserable for the years I went thru it and realized it after it is too later, waste of time, money, and sanity...

Dude, don't rain on others accomplishments. Like it or not, law school shapes the way you look at the world -- they spend three years teaching you to issue spot and think like a lawyer. You will be using the legal education subconsciously, whether you like it or not, the rest of your life -- it teaches you a way to tackle problems (engineering reportedly does the same). For some the law degree was a nice hook that helped get them into med school. For others it gave the study tools that enabled them to tackle the prereqs and med school. For others, it paid some of the bills. And still others may try to combine degrees down the road, maybe teach once they get too old to practice medicine. Whether you use the degree or not, it is a nice addition to a CV when applying for any sort of job -- it suggests you are able to troubleshoot and navigate the complexities of ethics and regulations that others probably cannot. You have to sell it right, but it's always an asset not a liability. So while one may not use the degree, they may (and will) use the education, and it is not really a waste of time or time or money.

 

[MJB]

I'm sure (actually I'm positive) that the big law firms in KC will pay six figures to their new associates. However, you have to go to a top school to get a job there or you need to be law review at a place like KU. Yeah, most new law grads don't make that type of money -- large law firms are pretty elitist in their hiring strategies.

I'm sure there are some out there...

Shook, I believe, is one of the larger ones...and I wondered what they started folks out at.

Not a big deal....it just caught my eye as something that is likely the exception rather than the norm.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I'm sure there are some out there...

Shook, I believe, is one of the larger ones...and I wondered what they started folks out at.

Not a big deal....it just caught my eye as something that is likely the exception rather than the norm.

Right, isn't it Shook, Hardy, Bacon or something like that? Is that the firm that does all the tobacco defense work? I actually interviewed with them without researching what they did and was like "no, thanks" when they talked about how proud they were of their tobacco defense.

You're right -- it's not the norm. It's the norm for grads from maybe the top 14 law schools. For the rest of the first tier, maybe 25 to 50% of grads get them, but you have to have good grades. After that, it's really just the law review folks (basically, top 10%) who would get these jobs.

 

[PizzaButt]

Whether you use the degree or not, it is a nice addition to a CV when applying for any sort of job

I wish this were true in my case. I got my JD, never practiced law, but my JD has closed me out of every job I wanted to get. I entered law school planning to practice law, but got completely turned off law by my coursework and summer law firm jobs. Mainly, it's that a) I never found any area that interested me in the law--estate planning was the only thing that came close, and b) I'm not an argumentative type of person. I detest conflict actually. I hated working in law firms where lawyers would be screaming at each other and on the phone at opposing counsel. That's not my type of atmosphere.

Anyhow, after my lack of med school acceptances, I started applying for jobs. Jobs that weren't necessarily legal-related (though many were). Long story short, my JD kept me out of the kind of jobs I wanted, either because I was overqualified (I've heard this over and over again) or because I was underqualified (for some of the legal-related jobs I wanted b/c I had never practiced law). Basically, my JD slammed every door shut. And sadly it's another hurdle to overcome in my med school applications. I do regret, very much, getting that JD. But parental pressure at age 22 (when I had no career direction) led me into law school, and I thought I would be a practicing lawyer at that time, until I got turned off law. I enjoyed my OR job after my post-bacc far more than any of the firm jobs or internships I held in law school.

 

[Meatwad]

I wish this were true in my case. I got my JD, never practiced law, but my JD has closed me out of every job I wanted to get. I entered law school planning to practice law, but got completely turned off law by my coursework and summer law firm jobs. Mainly, it's that a) I never found any area that interested me in the law--estate planning was the only thing that came close, and b) I'm not an argumentative type of person. I detest conflict actually. I hated working in law firms where lawyers would be screaming at each other and on the phone at opposing counsel. That's not my type of atmosphere.

Anyhow, after my lack of med school acceptances, I started applying for jobs. Jobs that weren't necessarily legal-related (though many were). Long story short, my JD kept me out of the kind of jobs I wanted, either because I was overqualified (I've heard this over and over again) or because I was underqualified (for some of the legal-related jobs I wanted b/c I had never practiced law). Basically, my JD slammed every door shut. And sadly it's another hurdle to overcome in my med school applications. I do regret, very much, getting that JD. But parental pressure at age 22 (when I had no career direction) led me into law school, and I thought I would be a practicing lawyer at that time, until I got turned off law. I enjoyed my OR job after my post-bacc far more than any of the firm jobs or internships I held in law school.

Sorry to hear about that. Seems like a lot of kids go into law without knowing what they are getting into. My uncle graduated law school and has never practiced either, just turned out to not be the right fit, I guess.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I am no expert in anything nor did i claim myself as one. But to address this quote, no I rather have no degree, than have a useless one I wont use and have invested 3 years of my life and financial debt to just collect degrees i wont use in the long run, who cant be a degree collecter if they want. I rather have a degree I am sure I will use then go get a JD to feel like I am smart just to not use it and be depressed and miserable for the years I went thru it and realized it after it is too later, waste of time, money, and sanity...

Yes, it's always better to sit around and do nothing and just bash the achievements of others.

 

[ViolinCello]

Whatever you choose, make sure to choose deliberately and not by default.

Beautifully stated.

I went through a similar experience myself, but in the end I knew what I had to do. I don't want my kids to think I settled, because that will set a poor example for them. In a way, my motivation is a bit different had I applied when I was younger because my choices no longer effects just me, but my entire family. Life is just too ephemeral, so I have nothing at this point. I used to think life would go on forever when I was younger, and time has a way of waking you up from this naive dream. You will be 40, 50, and hopefully 90 one day. We all get older, nothing changes that. The only difference is you can say you went after something you really wanted in life -- if it is really is your goal.