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[rowsdower88]

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I’m just trying to get your take. Not what the “experts” say, not what msm or political overlords say, not what a ucsd article says. You seem to default to what others tell you and only from one side. I think it is important to form your own opinion. Maybe you are. But make sure you’re not the guy who wears shorts outside with snow on the ground just bc the “experts”said it was going to be warm. Look out the window and see what it looks like to you.

My process of “ringing true” is to read both sides. Then judge the validity of the statements. If someone gives me “proof” with stats they gathered written by people they paid then I will take it with a grain of salt. Especially if I see contradictions to other evidence and information.

I trust medical research more than most other research. Yet we still have the Boldts and Pondermanns of the world. You act like there is no chance that someone could try to mislead you from one political side. This leads to people repeating something stupid like “minorities can’t figure out how to get an ID and you’re racist if you believe otherwise.”

I’m not certain at all that there is widespread fraud. I don’t have proof about how widespread. But there certainly will be if you invite it. I don’t need to look into a problem to take proper precautions. And I don’t need to be robbed before I start locking up my house and car.

10/10 certain that there has been increased mail-in fraud. Is it significant? How do you know if you don’t verify? What is significant? 1 vote? 600 votes? There is def been more than that.

You act like politicians are the moral saints of the world and I find the opposite to be true. That essentially none are cheating. For heavens sakes wouldn’t you want better protections to keep republicans from cheating? I think they both would and do cheat. So make it fair. Verify every vote. Make sure the actual citizens are picking our leaders. For both sides. I don’t care who ends up getting elected. I just don’t agree with setting up common sense rules.

In this instance, we have to rely on what others tell us. You personally haven't witnessed voting fraud have you? I haven't, so I need to rely on what our courts, our law enforcement officers, our polling operators and our research institutes have said on the topic.

So something "rings true" to you if you "read both sides" on an issue then "judge the validity of the statements". That actually sounds reasonable to me. It sounds like you're someone interested in getting to the truth of the matter.

When I survey the landscape of available information from our courts, our law enforcement officials, our polling operators and our research institutes; I find that widespread voting fraud is not occurring. I also find that instances of mail-in voting fraud are incredibly rare and that when it does occur it is prosecuted harshly.

How did you become 10/10 certain that there is increased fraud with mail-in voting? I assume that when you determined it rang true, you looked at the same information I did. You looked at the opinions of the courts, our law enforcement officials, etc... right? Because if you didn't, it sounds like this is all coming from your head again. Which gets us back to my concerns about conspiratorial thinking and my interpretation of your belief that everyone is lying to you.

To hold my position, you're right, I have to trust outside sources. I have to trust our courts, our law enforcement officials, etc... and I'm comfortable with that because I can't be everywhere.

On a scale from 1-10, how certain are you that the courts, our law enforcement officials, our polling operators, and our research institutes are lying to you on this issue?

 

[deleted87051]

In this instance, we have to rely on what others tell us. You personally haven't witnessed voting fraud have you? I haven't, so I need to rely on what our courts, our law enforcement officers, our polling operators and our research institutes have said on the topic.

So something "rings true" to you if you "read both sides" on an issue then "judge the validity of the statements". That actually sounds reasonable to me. It sounds like you're someone interested in getting to the truth of the matter.

When I survey the landscape of available information from our courts, our law enforcement officials, our polling operators and our research institutes; I find that widespread voting fraud is not occurring. I also find that instances of mail-in voting fraud are incredibly rare and that when it does occur it is prosecuted harshly.

How did you become 10/10 certain that there is increased fraud with mail-in voting? I assume that when you determined it rang true, you looked at the same information I did. You looked at the opinions of the courts, our law enforcement officials, etc... right? Because if you didn't, it sounds like this is all coming from your head again. Which gets us back to my concerns about conspiratorial thinking and my interpretation of your belief that everyone is lying to you.

To hold my position, you're right, I have to trust outside sources. I have to trust our courts, our law enforcement officials, etc... and I'm comfortable with that because I can't be everywhere.

On a scale from 1-10, how certain are you that the courts, our law enforcement officials, our polling operators, and our research institutes are lying to you on this issue?

Well we know from the “Twitter files” that the FBI is comprised of left wing deep state wingnuts😉. FBI agents need to be college graduates so obviously they’ve all been indoctrinated.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

In this instance, we have to rely on what others tell us. You personally haven't witnessed voting fraud have you? I haven't, so I need to rely on what our courts, our law enforcement officers, our polling operators and our research institutes have said on the topic.

So something "rings true" to you if you "read both sides" on an issue then "judge the validity of the statements". That actually sounds reasonable to me. It sounds like you're someone interested in getting to the truth of the matter.

When I survey the landscape of available information from our courts, our law enforcement officials, our polling operators and our research institutes; I find that widespread voting fraud is not occurring. I also find that instances of mail-in voting fraud are incredibly rare and that when it does occur it is prosecuted harshly.

How did you become 10/10 certain that there is increased fraud with mail-in voting? I assume that when you determined it rang true, you looked at the same information I did. You looked at the opinions of the courts, our law enforcement officials, etc... right? Because if you didn't, it sounds like this is all coming from your head again. Which gets us back to my concerns about conspiratorial thinking and my interpretation of your belief that everyone is lying to you.

To hold my position, you're right, I have to trust outside sources. I have to trust our courts, our law enforcement officials, etc... and I'm comfortable with that because I can't be everywhere.

On a scale from 1-10, how certain are you that the courts, our law enforcement officials, our polling operators, and our research institutes are lying to you on this issue?

Any percentage of fraud with mail-in votes and then increasing the number of mail-in votes immediately equals more fraud.

AP looked into it and only found 475 cases of fraud. Not enough to change the vote. But I’m guessing they are not Sherlock Holmes.

GBI said evidence was suspicious but not enough to obtain warrants.

CNET said it was essentially impossible to do voter fraud. This is in direct conflict with AP findings. My point being the narrative doesn’t seem consistent. And where some people find issues in a system that has seemingly minimal desire to police itself. They still find fraud. Can you imagine if you kept closer tabs what you would find?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Well we know from the “Twitter files” that the FBI is comprised of left wing deep state wingnuts😉. FBI agents need to be college graduates so obviously they’ve all been indoctrinated.

If I was the FBI I would be sending out all the emails they sent to twitter asking twitter to ban/check left related content. That would help reassure the right that there wasn’t bias. Bc it does seem like the fbi was overstepping what I would expect of an unbiased government. Or do you guys think they didn’t recommend left sided control?

 

[rowsdower88]

My point being the narrative doesn’t seem consistent.

You're concerned that different news sources have reached slightly different conclusions? I would expect different news sources to have at least slightly different conclusions, especially on events that take place over the nation. (Ever see Kurosawa's "Rashomon"?)

I thought we agreed the proper technique was to "read both sides" and "judge the validity of the statements"?

I'm kind of surprised you chose mainstream media sources to check for validity. Court records, some FBI records, state's attorney general statements, and congressional hearings are all in the public domain. One thing I found particularly persuasive was the State of Michigan's Republican controlled investigation into voter fraud:

Michigan Senate Republicans

Welcome to the Michigan Senate Republicans website. This website is a convenient way for you to stay informed on proposed legislation. You can also use the website to access valuable resources and…

www.misenategop.com

Michigan was a state that had some serious questions raised about the impropriety of mail-in voting. You can read the investigation's results for yourself if you're interested. They recommended that the practice of unsolicited "applications" for absentee voting be stopped among other things, but did not discover any actual impropriety and that the likelihood of significant impropriety taking place is extremely low. You can argue they did a poor job investigating I suppose, but if anyone is motivated to find election fraud it would be a Republican investigation after 2020 in Michigan right?

where some people find issues in a system that has seemingly minimal desire to police itself.

How certain are you that the system isn't adequately policing itself? I would argue that there is a significant amount of OVER-policing going on in some states with respect to voter fraud. For example, take Ron DeSantis' voter fraud task force. He has charged 20 people with voter fraud in the last year.

That process is hitting some roadblocks. The main issue has to do with Amendment 4 that passed in Florida which granted Floridians with felony convictions, who have served their time, the right to vote. However, the process for re-enfranchising these people has been hindered by both DeSantis in his capacity as governor as well as the Florida Supreme Court. Their chief argument is that ex-convicts who still have remaining court fees should remain illegible to vote. The problem is that the State of Florida doesn't know exactly how much each ex-convict owes, lol. So as a result many of these people are left in limbo with a great deal of uncertainty as to their voting status. Some of the people he's rounded up by this task force were even issued voter registration cards by the state! As of three days ago, three of the initial 20 individuals cases have been thrown out.



I guess I'm not sure why you think the US isn't policing voter fraud enough.

 

[tombreaz]

You're concerned that different news sources have reached slightly different conclusions? I would expect different news sources to have at least slightly different conclusions, especially on events that take place over the nation. (Ever see Kurosawa's "Rashomon"?)

I thought we agreed the proper technique was to "read both sides" and "judge the validity of the statements"?

I'm kind of surprised you chose mainstream media sources to check for validity. Court records, some FBI records, state's attorney general statements, and congressional hearings are all in the public domain. One thing I found particularly persuasive was the State of Michigan's Republican controlled investigation into voter fraud:

Michigan Senate Republicans

Welcome to the Michigan Senate Republicans website. This website is a convenient way for you to stay informed on proposed legislation. You can also use the website to access valuable resources and…

www.misenategop.com

Michigan was a state that had some serious questions raised about the impropriety of mail-in voting. You can read the investigation's results for yourself if you're interested. They recommended that the practice of unsolicited "applications" for absentee voting be stopped among other things, but did not discover any actual impropriety and that the likelihood of significant impropriety taking place is extremely low. You can argue they did a poor job investigating I suppose, but if anyone is motivated to find election fraud it would be a Republican investigation after 2020 in Michigan right?



How certain are you that the system isn't adequately policing itself? I would argue that there is a significant amount of OVER-policing going on in some states with respect to voter fraud. For example, take Ron DeSantis' voter fraud task force. He has charged 20 people with voter fraud in the last year.

That process is hitting some roadblocks. The main issue has to do with Amendment 4 that passed in Florida which granted Floridians with felony convictions, who have served their time, the right to vote. However, the process for re-enfranchising these people has been hindered by both DeSantis in his capacity as governor as well as the Florida Supreme Court. Their chief argument is that ex-convicts who still have remaining court fees should remain illegible to vote. The problem is that the State of Florida doesn't know exactly how much each ex-convict owes, lol. So as a result many of these people are left in limbo with a great deal of uncertainty as to their voting status. Some of the people he's rounded up by this task force were even issued voter registration cards by the state! As of three days ago, three of the initial 20 individuals cases have been thrown out.



I guess I'm not sure why you think the US isn't policing voter fraud enough.

The amount of former NPR listeners is astounding. If you haven't seen or heard:

All Things Re-Considered – Peter Boghossian

peterboghossian.com

 

[rowsdower88]

The amount of former NPR listeners is astounding. If you haven't seen or heard:

All Things Re-Considered – Peter Boghossian

peterboghossian.com

My use of an NPR citation wasn't meant to be an endorsement of everything ever written by NPR.

If you have another source suggesting DeSantis' voter fraud investigation is going well, that would be interesting. I suppose by the numbers, he is currently 17 for 20 arrests, so that would be a positive take. I do feel sorry for the 3 people so far who had to go through with an arrest for seemingly political purposes though. We'll see how many are eventually convicted.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I wasn't really that familiar with Boghossian, but I looked into his work. He is a guy who felt that academia had abandoned its goal of teaching students to think and had adopted more of an indoctrination approach. He and colleagues wrote up some sham papers and submitted them to journals just to see what would happen. The papers suggested outlandish ideas such as the male penis being ultimately responsible for global warming or that males should be leashed in dog parks due to the high rates of dog rapes by males in dog parks. It seems that many were initially accepted for publication after "peer review." He was eventually cited and dismissed from his university (Portland State Univ) for academic misconduct and is a very polarizing figure now for his irreverent activities.
What he did was kind of a jerk move, but I found it to be pretty fascinating and very embarrassing for the journals that accepted his work simply because they wanted such outrageous things to be true. It really pissed off his non like-minded colleagues and put him at odds with his employer. Now he has NPR squarely in his sites for the exact same reasons. Should be interesting to watch how it all unfolds. I have a friend who listens to NPR and was introduced to it many years ago. I have found it to be almost unlistenable and one-sided.

 

[tombreaz]

My use of an NPR citation wasn't meant to be an endorsement of everything ever written by NPR.

If you have another source suggesting DeSantis' voter fraud investigation is going well, that would be interesting. I suppose by the numbers, he is currently 17 for 20 arrests, so that would be a positive take. I do feel sorry for the 3 people so far who had to go through with an arrest though. We'll see how many are eventually convicted.

NPR has been viewed as a supreme news source for years and this critique is new within the last year or so. So I was just putting that out there for people who still assume NPR is an actual news organization instead of an echo chamber. Your 17 of 20 comment is spot on. One of the purposes of punishment is to deter others from doing it....

 

[deleted87051]

My use of an NPR citation wasn't meant to be an endorsement of everything ever written by NPR.

If you have another source suggesting DeSantis' voter fraud investigation is going well, that would be interesting. I suppose by the numbers, he is currently 17 for 20 arrests, so that would be a positive take. I do feel sorry for the 3 people so far who had to go through with an arrest for seemingly political purposes though. We'll see how many are eventually convicted.

Massive.

 

[tombreaz]

I wasn't really that familiar with Boghossian, but I looked into his work. He is a guy who felt that academia had abandoned its goal of teaching students to think and had adopted more of an indoctrination approach. He and colleagues wrote up some sham papers and submitted them to journals just to see what would happen. The papers suggested outlandish ideas such as the male penis being ultimately responsible for global warming or that males should be leashed in dog parks due to the high rates of dog rapes by males in dog parks. It seems that many were initially accepted for publication after "peer review." He was eventually cited and dismissed from his university (Portland State Univ) for academic misconduct and is a very polarizing figure now for his irreverent activities.
What he did was kind of a jerk move, but I found it to be pretty fascinating and very embarrassing for the journals that accepted his work simply because they wanted such outrageous things to be true. It really pissed off his non like-minded colleagues and put him at odds with his employer. Now he has NPR squarely in his sites for the exact same reasons. Should be interesting to watch how it all unfolds. I have a friend who listens to NPR and was introduced to it many years ago. I have found it to be almost unlistenable and one-sided.

It's a jerk move to expose certain peer reviewed journals as being a sham? How else was he suppose to do it?

His undercover deceit showed the utter ridiculousness of those who peer review and publish with the journal he worked with. This is a good thing since those that work at the journal are simply committed to ideology over truth and would never out themselves....

 

[Gern Blansten]

It's a jerk move to expose certain peer reviewed journals as being a sham? How else was he suppose to do it?

His undercover deceit showed the utter ridiculousness of those who peer review and publish with the journal he worked with. This is a good thing since those that work at the journal are simply committed to ideology over truth and would never out themselves....

It’s a jerk move because he is going against the grain. People don’t like that so they think he’s a jerk. I personally found it fascinating and intriguing. I suspect he’s got a pompous personality, otherwise, he would not have the balls to make such bold moves. So, I suspect he rubs a lot of people the wrong way, much like a Trump or a Musk type personality. It doesn’t mean I don’t like what he did. But I would bet that he’s a handful.

 

[tombreaz]

It’s a jerk move because he is going against the grain. People don’t like that so they think he’s a jerk. I personally found it fascinating and intriguing. I suspect he’s got a pompous personality, otherwise, he would not have the balls to make such bold moves. So, I suspect he rubs a lot of people the wrong way, much like a Trump or a Musk type personality. It doesn’t mean I don’t like what he did. But I would bet that he’s a handful.

Thanks for the clarification. I see what you're saying but I still see him as a KISA (knight in shining armor). 😉

He's definitely bold-I wouldn't say pompous. He's an expert in his field of logic and critical thinking. Watch some of his stuff, I think you'll actually find him pleasing and fair. He does a lot of exercises with students and people in public where he simply tries to get to the logic of any said statement. Then they discuss whatever the topic is to use if it's a legitimate truth claim or not, etc etc.

 

[epidural man]

It's a jerk move to expose certain peer reviewed journals as being a sham? How else was he suppose to do it?

His undercover deceit showed the utter ridiculousness of those who peer review and publish with the journal he worked with. This is a good thing since those that work at the journal are simply committed to ideology over truth and would never out themselves....

Yeah it is a jerk move.

Don’t tell me you are the guy that would call someone fat in public, making them cry and someone saying - “dude…that was so mean” and your response would be “well it’s the truth isn’t it? I tell the truth and I’m the jerk?”

Haven’t you ever heard, praise in public, criticize in private?

There are a thousand ways someone could have tried to expose these journals in a much classier way…especially for someone who is clever and talented but also caring and compassionate.

 

[epidural man]

Well how about that Twitter?

Aren’t we still just loving the Twitter files?

What about this little great video (and Twitter thread)?

Lefties - I would love to hear your rebuttals.

 

[vector2]

Truly a mystery why, from the get-go, COVID became polarized along ideological lines

 

[MirrorTodd]

Getting back to twitter and how it is a dumpster fire. Here is Elon's most recent tweet. Yes that is really his own tweet, yes that is the Twitter symbol on the "brainwashed" person's leg. And this is the person who some of you all are stating is doing great things? A man who spends his time pandering to the right, instead of, you know, actually running the companies that he is CEO of. *facepalm

 

[Southpaw]

Well how about that Twitter?

Aren’t we still just loving the Twitter files?

What about this little great video (and Twitter thread)?

Lefties - I would love to hear your rebuttals.

Bro peanut butter & jelly would be political if FoxNews said it was brought to us by MSM. I’m tired of culture wars - aren’t you?

 

[Southpaw]

Well how about that Twitter?

Aren’t we still just loving the Twitter files?

What about this little great video (and Twitter thread)?

Lefties - I would love to hear your rebuttals.

Also we are scientists. Say what you will about what was done, and sure I could question some of the decision making, but calling out all the wrongs (which by the way most are doing so for political reasons) as we look retrospectively doesn’t feel very scientific.

 

[epidural man]

Also we are scientists. Say what you will about what was done, and sure I could question some of the decision making, but calling out all the wrongs (which by the way most are doing so for political reasons) as we look retrospectively doesn’t feel very scientific.

It’s a good point.

We should always strive to be more scientific in our approach to subjects, topics, and debatable items.

 

[epidural man]

Truly a mystery why, from the get-go, COVID became polarized along ideological lines

Yeah, the crazy right is almost as bad as those horrible horrible people on the left, wouldn’t you agree?

But what about what the comedian said about swallowing the butter pill? Thoughts?

 

[vector2]

Yeah, the crazy right is almost as bad as those horrible horrible people on the left, wouldn’t you agree?

But what about what the comedian said about swallowing the butter pill? Thoughts?

Crazy right? The most mainstream of mainstream right wing pundits and politicians downplayed the seriousness of the pandemic from the get-go. And then continued to do so even after the vaccine came out.

Indeed, his paper found that the partisan gap in the deaths widened from April to December 2021, after all adults became eligible for Covid vaccines. Excess death rates in Florida and Ohio were 153% higher among Republicans than Democrats during that time, the paper showed.

Studies consistently find higher Covid death rates among Republicans than Democrats

Lower vaccination rates among Republicans could explain the partisan gap, but some researchers say mask use and social distancing were bigger factors.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[tombreaz]

Yeah it is a jerk move.

Don’t tell me you are the guy that would call someone fat in public, making them cry and someone saying - “dude…that was so mean” and your response would be “well it’s the truth isn’t it? I tell the truth and I’m the jerk?”

Haven’t you ever heard, praise in public, criticize in private?

There are a thousand ways someone could have tried to expose these journals in a much classier way…especially for someone who is clever and talented but also caring and compassionate.

I really think we're misunderstanding each other...

Of course I wouldn't call some random person fat in public. But that isn't a good analogy to what Boghossian did.

A better analogy would be if Peter was an obese man that struggled with weight and wanted to improve his health. Imagine he does research and publishes articles on losing weight and becoming more healthy. But then a large amount of the powers that be at this research tank start advocating that "fat is healthy". What's sad is this story isn't even made up-it's all over the internet. But Peter calling these guys to the floor that being fat isn't healthy is more akin to what he did. Which certainly isn't a jerk move. It may be jarring and offensive but I'm sure all of us can think of a time that a friend or family member needed to be straight up with us, for our benefit.

As I said to another commenter, watch some of his stuff online-especially his street convos with strangers and students. He's not a jerk at all.

 

[deleted1116990]

Well how about that Twitter?

Aren’t we still just loving the Twitter files?

What about this little great video (and Twitter thread)?

Lefties - I would love to hear your rebuttals.

I would stop caring so much if the American left would dissolve themselves of the covid cult surrounding vaccines and masks and the permanent health emergency to mandate these in healthcare facilities forever.

I would like nothing more than to leave all of it alone and let people go back to bickering about climate change and abortion on twitter. I have opinions on those but don't really care enough to constantly think about them and let them dominate my life and perpetually engage on Twitter or similar. I certainly wouldn't vote singularly on these historical left vs. right issues.

Covid changed all that. The attempts at mandates, especially given the dearth of scientific basis for the mandates, and the incessant gaslighting by the elites and academics, turned me into a single issue voter. I will never, ever forget what they did and will never vote for any candidate that approves mandates of any kinds, even in healthcare settings. I literally don't care what their other polices are. I care so much about it, it trumps everything else, just like the pro-choice and pro-life crowds. And I know I'm not alone. It should never be allowed to happen again and laws should be enacted to prevent it from happening again. The censorship from even discussing it. It's just really hard to believe that happened here.

Yet as I travelled over the holidays, the number of people voluntarily wearing masks has at least doubled in the past month. It's just dumbfounding. They have learned nothing. The media owns them with fear. Tripledemic? Are you serious? Are people this gullible? Yes, they are. It's something out of the movie Idiocracy. Would you like another BIGASS FRIES with your tripledemic vaccine from president Camacho? You are completely right that the left, and everybody, in other countries has let this go. You don't see it when you travel to other countries anymore.

 

[tombreaz]

I would stop caring so much if the American left would dissolve themselves of the covid cult surrounding vaccines and masks and the permanent health emergency to mandate these in healthcare facilities forever.

I would like nothing more than to leave all of it alone and let people go back to bickering about climate change and abortion on twitter. I have opinions on those but don't really care enough to constantly think about them and let them dominate my life and perpetually engage on Twitter or similar. I certainly wouldn't vote singularly on these historical left vs. right issues.

Covid changed all that. The attempts at mandates, especially given the dearth of scientific basis for the mandates, and the incessant gaslighting by the elites and academics, turned me into a single issue voter. I will never, ever forget what they did and will never vote for any candidate that approves mandates of any kinds, even in healthcare settings. I literally don't care what their other polices are. I care so much about it, it trumps everything else, just like the pro-choice and pro-life crowds. And I know I'm not alone. It should never be allowed to happen again and laws should be enacted to prevent it from happening again. The censorship from even discussing it. It's just really hard to believe that happened here.

Yet as I travelled over the holidays, the number of people voluntarily wearing masks has at least doubled in the past month. It's just dumbfounding. They have learned nothing. The media owns them with fear. Tripledemic? Are you serious? Are people this gullible? Yes, they are. It's something out of the movie Idiocracy. Would you like another BIGASS FRIES with your tripledemic vaccine from president Camacho? You are completely right that the left, and everybody, in other countries has let this go. You don't see it when you travel to other countries anymore.

If it saves just one life!!!!!! You joyless bigot! My grandma is 97 years old and has asthma so you better wear a mask!

In all seriousness, I agree totally with you. I think many people use the above arguments and think they're doing the right thing. People that don't agree then become the enemy. Enemies get attacked.

This is why the Twitter Files are a good thing. At least the information is starting to come out to verify what many of us have been saying for 2+ years.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Meanwhile I’ll just keep wearing my mask. Haven’t experienced COVID and don’t plan on it. I still get to travel and enjoy myself, don’t mind my woke liberal ass.

 

[tombreaz]

Meanwhile I’ll just keep wearing my mask. Haven’t experienced COVID and don’t plan on it. I still get to travel and enjoy myself, don’t mind my woke liberal ass.

Made me lol, honestly.

You really haven't gotten covid yet? Dang.

 

[Southpaw]

Some of you deserve to live in a Thanos-like world where half the worlds population is wiped out. It’s like you can’t be bothered to care about anyone or anything aside from being critical of the actions of others. You are all right - wearing a mask and getting a vaccine is the absolute height of government intrusion. Oh wait - we are anesthesiologists who did that before COVID so it affected us, well, not one bit.

 

[tombreaz]

Some of you deserve to live in a Thanos-like world where half the worlds population is wiped out. It’s like you can’t be bothered to care about anyone or anything aside from being critical of the actions of others. You are all right - wearing a mask and getting a vaccine is the absolute height of government intrusion. Oh wait - we are anesthesiologists who did that before COVID so it affected us, well, not one bit.

"If it saves just one life!!!!!! You joyless bigot! My grandma is 97 years old and has asthma so you better wear a mask!"

These jokes write themselves lol.

And you're being obtuse. You know that the intrusion came when millions were threatened with job loss when they never had been before. Having a fair and balanced conversation about this is possible. Almost anything in life can be done better, especially when looking back. But you live in an ad-hominem world where you think those that disagree with you want a Thanos world. Imagine saying that as a rational human being....

 

[MirrorTodd]

"If it saves just one life!!!!!! You joyless bigot! My grandma is 97 years old and has asthma so you better wear a mask!"

These jokes write themselves lol.

And you're being obtuse. You know that the intrusion came when millions were threatened with job loss when they never had been before. Having a fair and balanced conversation about this is possible. Almost anything in life can be done better, especially when looking back. But you live in an ad-hominem world where you think those that disagree with you want a Thanos world. Imagine saying that as a rational human being....

To the best of my knowledge, the government didn't force companies to threaten unemployment. That decision was left up to the individual companies was it not? It's possible I didn't follow the news close enough, but it seems like you have a problem with companies creating their own policies regarding the covid 19 recommendations.

 

[Southpaw]

"If it saves just one life!!!!!! You joyless bigot! My grandma is 97 years old and has asthma so you better wear a mask!"

These jokes write themselves lol.

And you're being obtuse. You know that the intrusion came when millions were threatened with job loss when they never had been before. Having a fair and balanced conversation about this is possible. Almost anything in life can be done better, especially when looking back. But you live in an ad-hominem world where you think those that disagree with you want a Thanos world. Imagine saying that as a rational human being....

Tell me more about the threatened job loss. What jobs and who did the threatening?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

To the best of my knowledge, the government didn't force companies to threaten unemployment. That decision was left up to the individual companies was it not? It's possible I didn't follow the news close enough, but it seems like you have a problem with companies creating their own policies regarding the covid 19 recommendations.

For healthcare facilities that accept Medicare they kinda did. However the religious exemption part was very vaguely worded. At my hospital they had a pre-printed form that basically said that you objected to the COVID vaccine on religious grounds and you just signed.and dated. So it was a mandate but all it took was signing a form and you were exempt.

This combined with many hospitals already mandating flu vaccines made this no big thing to my eyes. Heck, some hospitals require that you not even be a smoker and will regularly test your urine for nicotine metabolites as needed.

 

[deleted1116990]

Meanwhile I’ll just keep wearing my mask. Haven’t experienced COVID and don’t plan on it. I still get to travel and enjoy myself, don’t mind my woke liberal ass.

Bro, there is no avoiding covid. Live a normal life. You only get one. You are not going to die from covid. You just aren't. Go to a concert. Party. Kiss pretty girls. Hang out at a nursing home with your elderly grand parents. Be a human.

Getting sick sucks, but it's a part of life. It is baffling to me how we rapidly transitioned to society a where self-limited seasonal respiratory illnesses from being in close quarters were no longer acceptable and treating healthy appearing people as incubators who will cause you harm. This has devolved from reasonable concern about the unknown into widespread mental illness.

 

[deleted1116990]

Tell me more about the threatened job loss. What jobs and who did the threatening?

Are you serious?

Edit: Read your prior post about wiping out "half the world's population" So obviously not serious. Ok, nevermind.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Bro, there is no avoiding covid. Live a normal life. You only get one. You are not going to die from covid. You just aren't. Go to a concert. Party. Kiss pretty girls. Hang out at a nursing home with your elderly grand parents. Be a human.

Getting sick sucks, but it's a part of life. It is baffling to me how we rapidly transitioned to society a where self-limited seasonal respiratory illnesses from being in close quarters were no longer acceptable and treating healthy appearing people as incubators who will cause you harm. This has devolved from reasonable concern about the unknown into widespread mental illness.

Lol tell that to one of my best friends who was one of my groomsmen. Oh wait, you can't. Guess why?

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Bro, there is no avoiding covid. Live a normal life. You only get one. You are not going to die from covid. You just aren't. Go to a concert. Party. Kiss pretty girls. Hang out at a nursing home with your elderly grand parents. Be a human.

Getting sick sucks, but it's a part of life. It is baffling to me how we rapidly transitioned to society a where self-limited seasonal respiratory illnesses from being in close quarters were no longer acceptable and treating healthy appearing people as incubators who will cause you harm. This has devolved from reasonable concern about the unknown into widespread mental illness.

I normally would have agreed with you but since I started masking up, (knock on wood), I haven’t had any respiratory illnesses, nor have my immediate family. We travel, shop, go to the movies so my quality of life is not impacted. Of course, we’re all boosted up so if and when we do we officially get, hopefully it won’t be as bad.

My point is just let people live and do you. Viruses should not be political.

 

[deleted1116990]

Lol tell that to one of my best friends who was one of my groomsmen. Oh wait, you can't. Guess why?

I can give you a handful of anecdotes of cardiac deaths directly attributable to the vaccine also. That doesn't make either of these good arguments.
Like right now, in almost 2023, Covid NINETEEN is such a threat to the average person that they still need to alter their behaviors from their natural state. Hard no.

 

[deleted1116990]

I normally would have agreed with you but since I started masking up, (knock on wood), I haven’t had any respiratory illnesses, nor have my immediate family. We travel, shop, go to the movies so my quality of life is not impacted. Of course, we’re all boosted up so if and when we do we officially get, hopefully it won’t be as bad.

My point is just let people live and do you. Viruses should not be political.

I'm with you. You do you. I do me. The breakdown occured when it became I do me, and also You do me because I say so.

From a standpoint of basic principles regarding immunology, I would worry about what artificial measures like social distancing and isolation does without constant pathogenic challenges from the environment that we evolved to handle. But again, that's just me. I also believe flouride in the drinking water is a good thing and drink tons of it and people think I'm nuts for not only drinking bottled. MEH.

 

[Southpaw]

Are you serious?

Edit: Read your prior post about wiping out "half the world's population" So obviously not serious. Ok, nevermind.

I think there is nuance to it that are worth discussing and questioning based on historical political perspective (rights of private business to do as they please, mostly) but on second thought, like just about anything else even remotely politically related, it’s not worth discussing here. Not worth the energy or the time.

 

[deleted1116990]

I think there is nuance to it that are worth discussing and questioning based on historical political perspective (rights of private business to do as they please, mostly) but on second thought, like just about anything else even remotely politically related, it’s not worth discussing here. Not worth the energy or the time.

There was nothing about your comment that even hinted you were interested in a nuanced discussion. I do agree with you, that even if it were nuanced, it is likely not worth the energy or the time as discussing this with the covid cult has basically become akin to talking about the afterlife with scientologists.

 

[tombreaz]

To the best of my knowledge, the government didn't force companies to threaten unemployment. That decision was left up to the individual companies was it not? It's possible I didn't follow the news close enough, but it seems like you have a problem with companies creating their own policies regarding the covid 19 recommendations.

The govt and news cycle ran covid junk non-stop. So, sure, it was probably left up to some companies. But "left up to" after the majority of the world has coerced you into a politically correct position you must abide by isn't as innocent as it "being left up to you" should be.

 

[tombreaz]

I normally would have agreed with you but since I started masking up, (knock on wood), I haven’t had any respiratory illnesses, nor have my immediate family. We travel, shop, go to the movies so my quality of life is not impacted. Of course, we’re all boosted up so if and when we do we officially get, hopefully it won’t be as bad.

My point is just let people live and do you. Viruses should not be political.

They certainly shouldn't be political. Amen.

But you're the one who has changed your habits. Unless you wore a mask 24/7 before the TV told you to? I know very few people who lived that way unless they were from an Asian country.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

They certainly shouldn't be political. Amen.

But you're the one who has changed your habits. Unless you wore a mask 24/7 before the TV told you to? I know very few people who lived that way unless they were from an Asian country.

I definitely changed my habits but how does that make it political? If there is a snowstorm, I’ll likely wear a winter coat I don’t normally wear.

 

[deleted1116990]

I definitely changed my habits but how does that make it political? If there is a snowstorm, I’ll likely wear a winter coat I don’t normally wear.

The difference is that if you go outside when it is negative 10 without a coat, you will be uncomfortable and die pretty quickly from exposure.
Vs. wearing a mask that is also going to be uncomfortable and not going to keep you from dying by any meaningful measure, and certainly doesn't affect the mortality of others. And it's a matter of a pathogen vs. a matter of temperature regulation. Actually, there are a lot of differences in this analogy.

It was political when politicians made policies that forced people to wear masks and get injections under the guise that not doing so would result in mass deaths from uncontrolled spread (presumably to other people who got vaccines and wore masks, which always made zero sense). If they had just said "Here are some things that you can do to lower your risk if you are worried or at increased risk of serious illness, do them if you want, and this is what the actual risk is to different groups of people" there wouldn't have been a problem. Instead it was "This is deadly to everybody and everyone who doesn't do these things is trying kill you and can't be trusted so we have to shut the economy down and mandate masks on 4 year olds" And now we have the societal mess I'm not sure we'll ever be rid of at this point from this idiotic messaging from public health nitwits that politicians and the media gobbled up and vomited out in spectacular fashion.

 

[Gern Blansten]

My point is just let people live and do you. Viruses should not be political.

This is far from the approach you advocated for in the "unemployed due to SCOTUS" thread about the CMS mandate for mandatory vaccines. The vast majority of outspoken persons on that thread wished ill upon anyone who did not agree with them 100% on how to respond to the Covid crisis. Numerous people celebrated the deaths of people who refused to get vaccinated and applauded when those who chose not to get vaccinated lost their jobs. I suggested compassion and understanding and you were one of the ones who were adamant in shutting down any notion that people should try to be understanding and show compassion for those who may not be on board with taking a rushed through vaccine.
Now, you are asking people to let you "do your own thing" without comment or criticism. You say viruses should not be political after being part of the huge group on this forum who made it very political for the past 2 years.
I still advocate for compassion and understanding of those whose views differ from your own and agree with you on the quote you made above. It is very interesting that you now wish for your personal decisions to be respected when you and others did not offer the same to everyone else who did not share your enthusiasm for the new covid vaccine. Your posts could be featured on the Defiant L's Twitter account for how polar opposite they are today versus just a short time ago with regards to people respecting the rights of others.
In case you and others forgot that thread, here is a link:

Unemployed due to SCOTUS

With the recent SCOTUS ruling, 5-4, upholding the CMS mandate requiring full vaccination, more than a few healthcare providers will soon be fired from their job. What about those who are denied a religious exemption? I know some of you aren't sympathetic to this cause but do these people truly...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[RadOncDoc21]

This is far from the approach you advocated for in the "unemployed due to SCOTUS" thread about the CMS mandate for mandatory vaccines. The vast majority of outspoken persons on that thread wished ill upon anyone who did not agree with them 100% on how to respond to the Covid crisis. Numerous people celebrated the deaths of people who refused to get vaccinated and applauded when those who chose not to get vaccinated lost their jobs. I suggested compassion and understanding and you were one of the ones who were adamant in shutting down any notion that people should try to be understanding and show compassion for those who may not be on board with taking a rushed through vaccine.
Now, you are asking people to let you "do your own thing" without comment or criticism. You say viruses should not be political after being part of the huge group on this forum who made it very political for the past 2 years.
I still advocate for compassion and understanding of those whose views differ from your own and agree with you on the quote you made above. It is very interesting that you now wish for your personal decisions to be respected when you and others did not offer the same to everyone else who did not share your enthusiasm for the new covid vaccine. Your posts could be featured on the Defiant L's Twitter account for how polar opposite they are today versus just a short time ago with regards to people respecting the rights of others.
In case you and others forgot that thread, here is a link:

Unemployed due to SCOTUS

With the recent SCOTUS ruling, 5-4, upholding the CMS mandate requiring full vaccination, more than a few healthcare providers will soon be fired from their job. What about those who are denied a religious exemption? I know some of you aren't sympathetic to this cause but do these people truly...

forums.studentdoctor.net

You quote one statement but Yes, I’m ok with mandates and forcing people to get vaccinated. The context was in regards to people not getting vaccinated or wearing masks and blatantly not trying to do anything to help control the spread of the virus.

I’m ok with mask mandates. I’m also ok with not paying taxes and legalization of drugs and prostitutes. With that said, I’m ok with wearing my mask and just have to make sure I have it on tight when I’m indoors around you people who feel the need to share germs.

It’s still not political, these are my personal beliefs and not something FOX News or Trump told me to believe.

Can we also be real for once and stop trying to claim you’re tolerant or a moderate?

 

[Spikebd]

This is far from the approach you advocated for in the "unemployed due to SCOTUS" thread about the CMS mandate for mandatory vaccines. The vast majority of outspoken persons on that thread wished ill upon anyone who did not agree with them 100% on how to respond to the Covid crisis. Numerous people celebrated the deaths of people who refused to get vaccinated and applauded when those who chose not to get vaccinated lost their jobs. I suggested compassion and understanding and you were one of the ones who were adamant in shutting down any notion that people should try to be understanding and show compassion for those who may not be on board with taking a rushed through vaccine.
Now, you are asking people to let you "do your own thing" without comment or criticism. You say viruses should not be political after being part of the huge group on this forum who made it very political for the past 2 years.
I still advocate for compassion and understanding of those whose views differ from your own and agree with you on the quote you made above. It is very interesting that you now wish for your personal decisions to be respected when you and others did not offer the same to everyone else who did not share your enthusiasm for the new covid vaccine. Your posts could be featured on the Defiant L's Twitter account for how polar opposite they are today versus just a short time ago with regards to people respecting the rights of others.
In case you and others forgot that thread, here is a link:

Unemployed due to SCOTUS

With the recent SCOTUS ruling, 5-4, upholding the CMS mandate requiring full vaccination, more than a few healthcare providers will soon be fired from their job. What about those who are denied a religious exemption? I know some of you aren't sympathetic to this cause but do these people truly...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Bravo. Well said.

 

[Gern Blansten]

You quote one statement but Yes, I’m ok with mandates and forcing people to get vaccinated. I’m ok with mask mandates. I’m also ok with not paying taxes and legalization of drugs and prostitutes. With that said, I’m ok with wearing my mask and just make sure I have it on tight when I’m indoors.

It’s still not political, these are my personal beliefs and not something FOX News or Trump told me to believe.

No, I put a link to so many of your previous statements which are counter to the request for "accepting your choices" that you have now made.
People who are still wearing masks, especially cloth masks, in public may have been irreversibly broken by Covid. Yes, it was very bad, but the worst is far behind us now and we must learn to move forward. If you think that people will forgive and forget for all of the terrible things that you said and did to people who disagreed with you (neither side was completely correct), you may be in for a surprise. Those who showed compassion for those on the opposite side from them will have much more credibility, at least in my eyes. You and several others on that thread displayed little to no regard for compassionate care for your patients and colleagues. My only hope is that it was simply social media blustering and that you did not actually treat your patients and colleagues with such disregard.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

No, I put a link to so many of your previous statements which are counter to the request for "accepting your choices" that you have now made.
People who are still wearing masks, especially cloth masks, in public may have been irreversibly broken by Covid. Yes, it was very bad, but the worst is far behind us now and we must learn to move forward. If you think that people will forgive and forget for all of the terrible things that you said and did to people who disagreed with you (neither side was completely correct), you may be in for a surprise. Those who showed compassion for those on the opposite side from them will have much more credibility, at least in my eyes. You and several others on that thread displayed little to no regard for compassionate care for your patients and colleagues. My only hope is that it was simply social media blustering and that you did not actually treat your patients and colleagues with such disregard.

Is this your moral hill you’re going to die on? I’ll let you be the saint. I def could care less about the anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists feelings at this point.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Is this your moral hill you’re going to die on? I’ll let you be the saint. I def could care less about the anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists feelings at this point.

Calling you out from your moral high ground by showing your previous posts is not dying on a moral hill. It is just showing how you wish to have your cake and eat it too. You wish to demonize others who disagree with you while calling foul if someone disagrees with you. Don't try to play the victim when you were one of the bullies. And if you go back and read, I agreed with you regarding the efficacy of the vaccine (though I am not nearly as convinced as I once was), I just did not agree that those who disagreed with us should be demonized, denied care, or have their employment jeopardized.