Two Interviews, Two Deferrals, What to do next?

[premed202022]

I was fortunate enough to receive 2 IIs in August and interviewed subsequently in September. One of my interviews went extremely well and I felt like I connected well with my interviewer. However, ultimately I was deferred from both schools. Should I sent a Letter of intent or interest help me in my situation or would it be useless? I have been holding out on sending update letters until I receive my fall grades - due to COVID I haven't really picked up any new activities.

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[M&L]

I was fortunate enough to receive 2 IIs in August and interviewed subsequently in September. One of my interviews went extremely well and I felt like I connected well with my interviewer. However, ultimately I was deferred from both schools. Should I sent a Letter of intent or interest help me in my situation or would it be useless? I have been holding out on sending update letters until I receive my fall grades - due to COVID I haven't really picked up any new activities.

What do you mean by “differed”? Put on hold ? Waitlisted ?

 

[premed202022]

What do you mean by “differed”? Put on hold ? Waitlisted ?

according to both emails, my app was reviewed post-interview and the admissions committee decided to not make a decision

 

[LizzyM]

This is not a big deal. I have described this process like a wide staircase with room on each step for many candidates. Your position on the steps has been determined but it remains to be seen whether your position will be high enough to garner an offer. Much depends on where other appilcants, later in the cycle, land on the staircase. You might be fine, you might be too low but there is very llittle, if anything, that can change your position at this point. It is just a waiting game now until Feb/Mar/April. If you end up waitlisted, there is still the possibility that some admitted applicants will choose to attend elsewhere and free up a spot for you. Again, there is little you can do to change things.... be patient.

 

[premed202022]

This is not a big deal. I have described this process like a wide staircase with room on each step for many candidates. Your position on the steps has been determined but it remains to be seen whether your position will be high enough to garner an offer. Much depends on where other appilcants, later in the cycle, and on the staircase. You might be fine, you might be too low but there is very llittle, if anything, that can change your position at this point. It is just a waiting game now until Feb/Mar/April. If you end up waitlisted, there is still the possibility that some admitted applicants will choose to attend elsewhere and free up a spot for you. Again, there is little you can do to change things.... be patient.

Would the best thing to do be just to send an update letter to both schools once I receive my grades in a few weeks? I am expecting to get straight As this semester. I assume sending a LOI would not be helpful at this point.

 

[LizzyM]

Would the best thing to do be just to send an update letter to both schools once I receive my grades in a few weeks? I am expecting to get straight As this semester. I assume sending a LOI would not be helpful at this point.

Do you believe that your grades are what is holding you back or placing you on a lower stair. I think not. If you were interviewed, your grades are not an issue. Frankly, at this point, the die is cast and you just have to wait to see where the other competiters finish. (Rather like being first to tee off in a golf tournament... you won't know if you've won until the other players complete the course.)

 

[Goro]

Would the best thing to do be just to send an update letter to both schools once I receive my grades in a few weeks? I am expecting to get straight As this semester. I assume sending a LOI would not be helpful at this point.

LOI is worthless , except at the needy MD schools like Gtown and Mayo. A semester full of great grades is worth an update as long as the school states that they are willing to accept them.

 

[KnightDoc]

This is not a big deal. I have described this process like a wide staircase with room on each step for many candidates. Your position on the steps has been determined but it remains to be seen whether your position will be high enough to garner an offer. Much depends on where other appilcants, later in the cycle, and on the staircase. You might be fine, you might be too low but there is very llittle, if anything, that can change your position at this point. It is just a waiting game now until Feb/Mar/April. If you end up waitlisted, there is still the possibility that some admitted applicants will choose to attend elsewhere and free up a spot for you. Again, there is little you can do to change things.... be patient.

This is interesting because many adcoms who post here (not you! ) insist on repeatedly telling us that we are not competing with the rest of the pool, and that we rise and fall based solely on our own file and interview performance, so we shouldn't worry about what the pool looks like. This appears not to be the case, which makes all the sense in the world!

If I understand you correctly, ALL decisions are based on where we fit relative to everyone else. When that is apparent early, we receive an early decision. If not, we wait until the adcom has more data points. Am I missing or misunderstanding anything?

 

[LizzyM]

This is very much like golf... you are trying to do your best and garner the best score. At the end of the tournament, you may or may not have a score that gets you a prize. I suppose if an interview and application were the eequivalent of having scored a hole in one in each of 18 holes, then you might be considered a winner before the rest of the golfers finish the course. That would be an early decision.

If 10 adcom members are asked to score you on a scale of 1-10 and you score an 85, will that be good enough to get an offer or will it be just a bit below the minimum? Is there any way to know when we know that we'll interview 600 applicants to make 200 offers but have only, at this point, interviewed 50.

 

[premed1011]

This is very much like golf... you are trying to do your best and garner the best score. At the end of the tournament, you may or may not have a score that gets you a prize. I suppose if an interview and application were the eequivalent of having scored a hole in one in each of 18 holes, then you might be considered a winner before the rest of the golfers finish the course. That would be an early decision.

If 10 adcom members are asked to score you on a scale of 1-10 and you score an 85, will that be good enough to get an offer or will it be just a bit below the minimum? Is there any way to know when we know that we'll interview 600 applicants to make 200 offers but have only, at this point, interviewed 50.

Do you think schools are deferring more people this year and there will be more WL movement?

 

[LaughingGas10]

Do you think schools are deferring more people this year and there will be more WL movement?

With the interviews being virtual, it is likely that some of the highly qualified candidates will be doing more interviews, and thus have multiple acceptances, as compared to prior years.

When these candidates finally make their selection, there is likely to be more movement off the waiting list than prior years. This is just conjecture, and will have to wait, and see if this theory pans out.

 

[Goro]

With the interviews being virtual, it is likely that some of the highly qualified candidates will be doing more interviews, and thus have multiple acceptances, as compared to prior years.

When these candidates finally make their selection, there is likely to be more movement off the waiting list than prior years. This is just conjecture, and will have to wait, and see if this theory pans out.

This is the scenario I envision for my school.

We're interviewing people from the Ivies lately!!!

 

[KnightDoc]

With the interviews being virtual, it is likely that some of the highly qualified candidates will be doing more interviews, and thus have multiple acceptances, as compared to prior years.

When these candidates finally make their selection, there is likely to be more movement off the waiting list than prior years. This is just conjecture, and will have to wait, and see if this theory pans out.

This is the scenario I envision for my school.

We're interviewing people from the Ivies lately!!!

?????? It's not clear how this helps your school!! If this is the scenario you envision, then you must envision losing a lot of Ivy candidates in the spring when they are called off WLs at other schools.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

This is the scenario I envision for my school.

We're interviewing people from the Ivies lately!!!

So Ivy candidates are applying for more schools including DO schools so they were worried about losing to other ivy candidates?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is interesting because many adcoms who post here (not you! ) insist on repeatedly telling us that we are not competing with the rest of the pool, and that we rise and fall based solely on our own file and interview performance, so we shouldn't worry about what the pool looks like. This appears not to be the case, which makes all the sense in the world!

If I understand you correctly, ALL decisions are based on where we fit relative to everyone else. When that is apparent early, we receive an early decision. If not, we wait until the adcom has more data points. Am I missing or misunderstanding anything?

What is meant by that is that you are not directly competing with other students. It is not a zero sum game (except at my school, where the number of spots is federally determined).

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

With the interviews being virtual, it is likely that some of the highly qualified candidates will be doing more interviews, and thus have multiple acceptances, as compared to prior years.

When these candidates finally make their selection, there is likely to be more movement off the waiting list than prior years. This is just conjecture, and will have to wait, and see if this theory pans out.

I am not an adcom but that's what I said early in the cycle. my son is planning to do all the interviews he gets from T1-T30.

 

[KnightDoc]

What is meant by that is that you are not directly competing with other students. It is not a zero sum game (except at my school, where the number of spots is federally determined).

Except... she's saying it IS a zero sum game, since the number of spots ARE fixed, albeit not by the government, and your fate is not strictly determined by how you do, but on how you do compared to everyone else -- i.e., directly competing with other students. Using her golf analogy, first you compete against the course, then against the other golfers to determine who wins, so it's not as simple as just shooting under par.

 

[Dr.K124]

Except... she's saying it IS a zero sum game, since the number of spots ARE fixed, albeit not by the government, and your fate is not strictly determined by how you do, but on how you do compared to everyone else -- i.e., directly competing with other students. Using her golf analogy, first you compete against the course, then against the other golfers to determine who wins, so it's not as simple as just shooting under par.

This is why it's so important to apply early. That way, most of the competition is yourself, rather than others.

 

[KnightDoc]

This is why it's so important to apply early. That way, most of the competition is yourself, rather than others.

But is it? That's the whole point of her post. If you are not a clear A early, you find yourself deferred so her adcom can compare you to everyone else and deny you that advantage. At least at her school, the competition apparently is ALWAYS the entire pool, and the only early As go to those who experience tells them will get one anyway. Apparently, applying early can get you an early II, but nothing more.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Except... she's saying it IS a zero sum game, since the number of spots ARE fixed, albeit not by the government, and your fate is not strictly determined by how you do, but on how you do compared to everyone else -- i.e., directly competing with other students. Using her golf analogy, first you compete against the course, then against the other golfers to determine who wins, so it's not as simple as just shooting under par.

That doesn’t imply it’s a zero sum game. It’s not a bunch of people competing for one seat, and one person “wins” by getting it. At civilian schools, they can (and do) accept more folks than there are seats. By definition it cannot be a zero sum game.

 

[KnightDoc]

That doesn’t imply it’s a zero sum game. It’s not a bunch of people competing for one seat, and one person “wins” by getting it. At civilian schools, they can (and do) accept more folks than there are seats. By definition it cannot be a zero sum game.

I respectfully disagree, just based on what @LizzyM said. Zero sum doesn't require one seat. By that definition, USUHS isn't either. Seats at Harvard are just as fixed as at USUHS, just not by Congress, or whoever makes that decision.

Civilian schools over accept because they know there will be attrition, while USUHS is not allowed to, so it just pulls more off its WL. Civilian schools do NOT, however, over enroll. If they don't see the expected attrition, they bribe people to defer. Other than that, it's the same -- a lot of people competing for a few seats.

I'm only reacting to what @LizzyM said -- if you are not clearly at the top of the stairs, you are deferred until you can be compared to rest of the pool. How is that not direct competition?????

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I respectfully disagree, just based on what @LizzyM said. Zero sum doesn't require one seat. By that definition, USUHS isn't either. Seats at Harvard are just as fixed as at USUHS, just not by Congress.

Civilian schools over accept because they know there will be attrition, while USUHS is not allowed to, so it just pulls more off its WL. Civilian schools do NOT, however, over enroll. If they don't see the expected attrition, they bribe people to defer. Other than that, it's the same -- a lot of people competing for a few seats.

I'm only reacting to what @LizzyM said -- if you are not clearly at the top of the stairs, you are deferred until you can be compared to rest of the pool. How is that not direct competition?????

I don’t think you understand what the term zero sum means. I don’t want to hijack the thread any further, but by definition, a zero sum game means that if you have two players, one player can only gain by the other losing. That is the definition. So if med school admissions were a zero sum game, the only way you could get accepted is if someone else is rejected, which is not how it works.

USUHS is probably the closest to a zero sum game because there cannot be more than 173 people in the class. They literally cannot accept more than that. At Harvard, while they have a set number of seats, they can accept more than that number and do every year. Additionally, if they had to or wanted to, they could flux their class size a little.

But we’re derailing the thread arguing about this. If you’re still not convinced, I suggest reading a little about game theory. I’m not going to keep responding because I don’t want to take away from the OP anymore.

 

[r2med]

Nice discussion, but some people on SDN are notorious for hijacking, bringing in other uninvited people into the discussion, posting as though they know it all, instigating rough/heated discussions, etc. I think the OP is no longer receiving any additional info on this thread and has probably stopped watching the thread!!!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

We need invitation to participate?

 

[r2med]

We need invitation to participate?

I am talking about instigation and invitation to people who would have not otherwise participated in that particular discussion by at tagging.

 

[KnightDoc]

I am talking about instigation and invitation to people who would have not otherwise participated in that particular discussion by at tagging.

???? Who tagged anyone here who wasn't already participating?

 

[r2med]

I didn't say this discussion.

 

[KnightDoc]

I didn't say this discussion.

But, you did post it here! What is anyone reading it supposed to think?

 

[r2med]

But, you did post it here! What is anyone reading it supposed to think?

That's typical example of hijacking

 

[KnightDoc]

That's typical example of hijacking

If any response to a post is hijacking, then I guess I am guilty as charged.

 

[LizzyM]

Do you think schools are deferring more people this year and there will be more WL movement?

It is possible. It is also possible that the superstars will do more interviews because it is very inexpensive to do so this year compared to years past. After those superstars make their final choices, the schools will fill in from the waitlist.

 

[Maimonides1]

I was fortunate enough to receive 2 IIs in August and interviewed subsequently in September. One of my interviews went extremely well and I felt like I connected well with my interviewer. However, ultimately I was deferred from both schools. Should I sent a Letter of intent or interest help me in my situation or would it be useless? I have been holding out on sending update letters until I receive my fall grades - due to COVID I haven't really picked up any new activities.

Congratulations on making it so far in the US open master tournament..

You made the cut on the first two rounds and you qualified for the finals..
You will be teamed with equal score other players in the next round..
You know you played yourself hard to excel thus far, but remember that you are still playing against the rest of a very competitive field..!
So if you got out early this morning for your T time.. and reached your 18th hole.., don’t panic.. the day is young and we still have to wait for the final group to turn their own cards before we start scoring the rest of the leaders board to determine the final winners!
At the end of the final round on Sunday.., If you reached the clubhouse and we couldn’t offer you a toast due to the limited supply of awards..,
Tough luck this time.. and you might want to think about joining us next year again..!!

P/s please take a deep breath.., don’t try to interfere with the counting and scoring judges work..
They will be certifying the results at the end of this crazy cycle in due time.

Wish you all the best of luck!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It is possible. It is also possible that the superstars will do more interviews because it is very inexpensive to do so this year compared to years past. After those superstars make their final choices, the schools will fill in from the waitlist.

This is what I was thinking. That there would probably be more waitlist movement at some schools because more rockstars are doing more interviews than they would in a normal year.

 

[LizzyM]

Congratulations on making it so far in the US open master tournament..

You made the cut on the first two rounds and you qualified for the finals..
You will be teamed with equal score other players in the next round..
You know you played yourself hard to excel thus far, but remember that you are still playing against the rest of a very competitive field..!
So if you got out early this morning for your T time.. and reached your 18th hole.., don’t panic.. the day is young and we still have to wait for the final group to turn their own cards before we start scoring the rest of the leaders board to determine the final winners!
At the end of the final round on Sunday.., If you reached the clubhouse and we couldn’t offer you a toast due to the limited supply of awards..,
Tough luck this time.. and you might want to think about joining us next year again..!!

P/s please take a deep breath.., don’t try to interfere with the counting and scoring judges work..
They will be certifying the results at the end of this crazy cycle in due time.

Wish you all the best of luck!

And keep in mind that many of you are playing in multiple tournaments this year. While you might not win every one, you might win one which is what matters.